I'm excited folks..... Here's what I've been working on for the past few months..

I have been working on a paddle-shifter kit that mounts to the stock fiero steering column, and has the capability of manually shifting the 4t60e, 4t65e, and 4t80e automatic transmissions.

For the 65e and 80e, it will also control the shift pressure. (You will need to hook into your TPS sensor) Max and min pressure will be adjustable by you. That alone is like a shift kit! I should mention that with my stock northstar/4t80e, I can chirp the tires in second. Haven't tried for third... Estimated cost would be $200-300, which would include the transmission control module, paddles. ETA of full production would be a couple months from now. If you don't need the paddles (like if you wanted to use the buttons in your aftermarket steering wheel), I can sell the TCM seperate for 150-200.

So far, everything is just in the prototyping stage... I have been running the TCM on my car for the past 5 months, and put about a thousand miles on it, with no problems. This is in everything from 100 degrees (from the trunk warmth) to -10 degrees (winter startups). Once I have the prototypes built, and have put a few thousand miles on them, they will be ready for sale.

*But - if there's no interest, I'll just take my paddles and fade back into the woodwork

Here's a pic to whet your appetite:

(keep in mind nothing's finished, and I'm holding the wheel there with my knee, so the angles are probably funky )

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Ryan

Owner of the *only* paddle-shifted, Northstar powered fiero.

Will these also work on the 125..?? Please say YES!!

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"EuroSmooth Fabrications"
Coming Soon...03/05

quote Originally posted by NotAFieroAnyLonger: Will these also work on the 125..?? Please say YES!!

Sorry But the 4t60e is practically a drop-in swap..... There's a couple writeups on that. Plus then you don't have to worry about torque when it comes time for an engine swap. And you know you want one Steve

Don´t know the type name but I have the 5gear getrag in my car. Will that work? If soo count me in!!!

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Regards SHARKMAN
86 GT, 3.4 Camaro engine,
choptop # 1 in Europe/Sweden

Nice job, I look forward to seeing more. This is one of the reasons I really love this place... Everybody's always thinkin stuff up!

[This message has been edited by F-I-E-R-O (edited 02-14-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Sharkman: Don´t know the type name but I have the 5gear getrag in my car. Will that work? If soo count me in!!!

No, because this is built for automatics

Thats too bad. I would have loved having that in my choptop

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Regards SHARKMAN
86 GT, 3.4 Camaro engine,
choptop # 1 in Europe/Sweden

Ryan,does your shifter allow the transmission to shift itself under normal conditions,or do you have to control every shift up or down?

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#1112
Question my ability,question my intelligence,never question my integrity!

quote Originally posted by hugh: Ryan,does your shifter allow the transmission to shift itself under normal conditions,or do you have to control every shift up or down?

It's a semiautomatic... or a manumatic... or... well... yeah. Just picture it to be a clutchless manual. You have to shift it. (OR... like a auto with a manual valve body! That's what I was trying to think of.) I thought about making it an option to go full auto, but it would make it more expensive.

Currently in my fiero, I have it set up so that I use the shifter itself to control the shifts... just like a manual. I like this feature, but one-armed acceleration gets kind of scary, if you know what I mean. That's why I'm putting together the paddles. I may still keep both functions, it won't cost anything extra, just some more programming time on my part.

edit: manual valve body... yeah.

Oh! Now I remember why I didn't go for full auto..... They already have one... But it's $700! http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/content-4.html

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 02-13-2005).]

HI all,

Is that $700 for their kit, plus yours???? Or would the 700 be total for both semi and full auto???

From the way it looks, the paddles will move with the steering wheel? Or will they be mounted to the column and always be stationary?

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: HI all, Is that $700 for their kit, plus yours???? Or would the 700 be total for both semi and full auto???

I was just posting that for reference... The $700 is a completely seperate thing, if you're interested in having a "true" automatic, that shifts itself.

My product is the semi auto, and with paddles is <$300. Choice is yours.

The paddles do NOT move with the steering wheel. I absolutely HATED the "tap shift" pontiacs with their steering wheel mounted buttons. It seemed like you'd be hunting for the right button in a turn. As such, I chose to mount the paddle-shifter assembly directly to the steering column, so you'd know where they are at all times. That's how Ferrari does theirs, and it makes more sense... (shame on you pontiac... that's strike two!)

At least I think they do... I've never actually been in one.
<squints>

Is there going to be any indicator of what gear your in? Like if you come to a stop and forgot to downshift, and your at a stoplight. Will there be a way to tell without actually having to move?

quote Originally posted by Silicoan86: Is there going to be any indicator of what gear your in? Like if you come to a stop and forgot to downshift, and your at a stoplight. Will there be a way to tell without actually having to move?

Absolutely. It has a numeric display for the gear, that you can mount just about anywhere. Right now I have it set up for 1" digits, so you can't miss it

Thats pretty sweet. If I had an auto I'd be all over this, but I'm hooked on fully manual trannies.

I'm game, I have a 4T60E in a 85GT that I would like to add this to.
Keep us informed with the progress.
Rod

quote Originally posted by Sharkman: Don´t know the type name but I have the 5gear getrag in my car. Will that work? If soo count me in!!!

I figured out how to do a true manual paddle shifter
it will not be eazy or cheap or lite
and will need a lot of battery power to work
and a lot of wires
unlike his auto unit
but it can be done

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: ...That's how Ferrari does theirs, and it makes more sense... At least I think they do... I've never actually been in one...

You have your facts straight. I read an article on the Ferrari system in Road & Track and that was one of the points they brought out. I am paraphrasing but they said Ferrari mounted the paddles on the column where they are supposed to be. It just seems like common sense to make them stationary.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

Hi all,

What kinda mods would we expect, if you know, to have both semi and full automatic?? Can it be done??

edit: LOL!!!! I am planning on putting in a 440-t4 in now, though after this I just might have to rethink the tranny option.... Is your kit a modded pontiac grand prix setup??? That's why I keep asking about running both semi and full auto....Note, only run one at a time, i.e. having the option to run one or the other...........

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 02-14-2005).]

Out of curiousity, what cars do those transmissions come in stock?

Hi all,

I wish I could fully answer your ?, but a better one would be what cars don't come with these auto setups........I know that doesn't help much, and I am sorry for that.......

About the paddles to be offered, is there any chance we could see some fiberglassed shifters like the ferrari shifters.........No offense but those metal shifters look bulky...If the were slimmer and looked like the ferrari shifters they be cool.............I was excited about loyde's, aka fastfieros, doing the comp g package or his button shifters for the auto and now I know I wanna go this route.......Count me in!!

Ryan Hess,

This is exactly what my car needs. Let me know as soon as you get one ready. I would love to be a beta tester (and wouldnt you love to have one in worlds fastest V6 fiero?)

Lets do it.

(4T60e btw);

Ryan

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: Hi all, I wish I could fully answer your ?, but a better one would be what cars don't come with these auto setups........I know that doesn't help much, and I am sorry for that....... About the paddles to be offered, is there any chance we could see some fiberglassed shifters like the ferrari shifters.........No offense but those metal shifters look bulky...If the were slimmer and looked like the ferrari shifters they be cool.............I was excited about loyde's, aka fastfieros, doing the comp g package or his button shifters for the auto and now I know I wanna go this route.......Count me in!!

he could have them machined out of fiberglass laminate just as easilly as aluminum I'm sure - personally I think its just a matter of the asthetics (the shape) of the levers.. that could be changed by anyone with a little talent.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Sorry But the 4t60e is practically a drop-in swap..... There's a couple writeups on that. Plus then you don't have to worry about torque when it comes time for an engine swap. And you know you want one Steve

Well...lol I am running a built up 125 w/ the 4.9L, not on the road yet... was just checking on this for the 125!

Looks very cool !

quote Originally posted by pavo_roddy: Is your kit a modded pontiac grand prix setup??? That's why I keep asking about running both semi and full auto....Note, only run one at a time, i.e. having the option to run one or the other...........

Well this thread has ballooned a bit I'll try to answer some questions.. My kit has nothing in common with the grand prix setup. It's basically a custom-built computer to handle shifting, pressures, TCC lockup and everything else. I haven't read up on PCS's system, but I'd bet that would be the way to go if you want full auto. I'd give them a call.

I can probably get the paddles machined out of ABS plastic, or something similar if you want. I don't know about fiberglass........ I guess you'd be on your own to modify the paddles and switches for that.

These transmissions came in everything from about 90 on. Chances are, if it's a transverse GM transmission from 90+, it's electronically controlled. Grand prix's, luminas, auroras, seville/eldorado/deville's... well you get the idea.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: ...a custom-built computer to handle shifting, pressures, TCC lockup and everything else...

Hmmm getting more interesting I could care less about automatic functions. I just want as much control as possible over the tranny.

How are adjustments made - laptop?

What type of cable, card, etc, would be needed?

Can it be programmed to behave differently at full throttle, than part throttle, etc?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a feel for what your controller is best suited for.

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Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic"
todd's hot rods

quote Originally posted by toddshotrods: Hmmm getting more interesting I could care less about automatic functions. I just want as much control as possible over the tranny. How are adjustments made - laptop? What type of cable, card, etc, would be needed? Can it be programmed to behave differently at full throttle, than part throttle, etc? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a feel for what your controller is best suited for.

No laptop needed. The only thing that's really "user adjustable" is the shift pressures. They will follow the throttle no matter what. I.e. when cruising, at low throttle positions, it will 'granny shift' it. When at wide-open, it will feel like it has a shift kit... if you're lucky, it'll chirp the tires *note that on the 4t60e, the pressure is controlled by the engine vacuum, so you're outta luck on that. But for everyone else, the max. and min. firmness will be adjustable by recessed potentiometers. TCC lockup is like a fifth gear, and you get to it by upshifting to 5th after 4th... Just remember to down shift before coming to a complete stop, or it'll stall the engine. Maybe I should have the display flash to remind people they're in 'fifth'

Mounting them on the collum is the way to go imo. Realize, that in a turn you are not allways aware of the steering wheel's orientation, and if you have it at 180 degrees and hit the upshift, that is now actually the downshift if they moved, it would get really ugly, really fast. With them mounted stationary, you can get shifting down to reflex. If they moved with the wheel, you have to find the paddle you want then hit it. Reflex is better imo. Little anatomy lesson here. Reflexes, by definition are learned common movements that are actually controlled by your spine without any input from your brain. Basically the same reason why you can burn yourself on the stove, and pull your hand away before you feel the pain.

Ryan what will need to be done with the computer programming? Will the transmission parameters need to be deleted? I can see if the computer was still trying to send shift signals, and the operator is obviously going to shift whenever they want, it could cause some problems with setting trouble codes and such.

So heres what im wondering: I am running an obd1 computer system with my 4t60e. Im not sure if the tranny is going to be able to handle the power im about to deliver, so i may switch to a 65eHD. Would this completely control my 65e, with no computer provisions required? The main factor in switching my tranny to 65e is having to switch to obd2. Ive put tons of time and money getting everything working and tuned right, and I dont want to have to start over.

Let me know if this can be done.

Pm me your phone number if you wanna talk more about this.

This may be beneficial for everyone to hear......

quote Originally posted by fieroX: Ryan what will need to be done with the computer programming? Will the transmission parameters need to be deleted? I can see if the computer was still trying to send shift signals, and the operator is obviously going to shift whenever they want, it could cause some problems with setting trouble codes and such.

It very well could. The nice thing with the northstar ECM was the tranny and ABS code could be "turned off". I'm trying to think if it would make a difference with the 4t60e.... You might want to talk to somebody on the 60*V6 forums, to ask what the difference is between the 5 speed and auto code. It might just be a simple box you can uncheck. I don't know for sure..... or alternatively check with the guy at GMPCM.com

quote So heres what im wondering: I am running an obd1 computer system with my 4t60e. Im not sure if the tranny is going to be able to handle the power im about to deliver, so i may switch to a 65eHD. Would this completely control my 65e, with no computer provisions required? The main factor in switching my tranny to 65e is having to switch to obd2. Ive put tons of time and money getting everything working and tuned right, and I dont want to have to start over.

That is correct. It does not need anything besides power, a few wires to the tranny, and for you to mount the paddle ass'y and gear indicator. *however* - without looking it up, iirc the shift patterns for the 60e and 65e are different, so if you had the 60e TCM, you'd probably have to send it to me to get the 65e programming. Won't cost anything...

Isnt the downshifting all the time going to burn up the clutches in the trans?

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+ an 88 Capirce 9C1 Police Package
--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: Isnt the downshifting all the time going to burn up the clutches in the trans?

On a 'normal' car, the ECM does this anyways. Why would it hurt the trans to do what it's made to do? If you're that worried about it, you can leave the line pressure at maximum. That'll give you the quickest and firmest shifts, and maximize the clutch/band life... at the expense of ride quality.

Can you go into neutral, reverse, and park with the paddles? Or will the Shifter still need to be kept?

I'm very interested in this product, keep us updated.

quote Originally posted by Manic Mechanic: Can you go into neutral, reverse, and park with the paddles? Or will the Shifter still need to be kept?

Yes, i need to know this also.

Another thing, at first Ill be needing one for a 60e. Ill see how it can handle the 650 hp. I have a 65eHD in my garage just in case so I can send it back. Let me know.

Ryan

Wow, I didn't realize anyone else was working on this.

My plans for my car include a N* swap with a 4T80E tranny.

I had been starting to think about how to make paddle shifters since this would be the only way for me to be able to compensate for Calif forcing me to keep an auto in my car..

I'll be watching this intently.

Rick

oh, i am so excited about this, this is exactly what i have been looking for. could you pleace keep me informed on the progress! im gonna start looking for a good tranny to swap in when you get this done!

quote Originally posted by Manic Mechanic: Can you go into neutral, reverse, and park with the paddles? Or will the Shifter still need to be kept? I'm very interested in this product, keep us updated.

Good question. Sorry I forgot to mention this before! Unfortunately, the way the auto transmissions are set up, to get into neutral and reverse, certain fluid circuits have to be turned "on", and that can only happen if you move the shifter. I haven't found any way around that, and I'd guess you'd have to drill some ugly holes in the tranny and install new solenoids at the least...

So, short answer, yes, you would have to keep the shifter

I should have everything installed in my car in a few weeks (working on it in my free time, which is hard to come by)... and after that, I'll get everything finalized, and put together a set of these. I will probably need two beta testers with a 60e and 65e transmission... But that won't be for at least a month.