quote Originally posted by stimpy: What do I have? Well, I'll tell ya. 3800 series 2 running the stock 8lbs of boost. Now, why would I be skeptical that the 2.8 would turn 100 more wheel HP with 9 lbs of boost?

Did he ever say "wheel horsepower" or did he just say "estimated 300 HP"?
You've got ~240 horsepower, but only 196 of those make it to the pavement.
You've got factory cam, shite factory 3800 heads, etc...
Why does my 280 cid Northstar make as much or more HP stock as a 350 cid LT1? It breathes better.

OK, point taken Will. so it's 60 hp more then my motor. That's still an impressive claim from a 2.8, built or no, isn't it? Wouldn't the tuning to get numbers like that take at least one dyno run? Or are G-Tech numbers that accurate?

i hate to stick up for what i have not seen but a 300hp 2.8 is possible if you punch it .060 over short stroke custom heads, headers, intake,cam,valves ect
Cmon look at all the honda civics making 3-400hp DAILY (BIG TURBO) i am actually going for 250 out of mine i dont think it will be that hard to do either

oh and by the way befor you say FLAMER i llike stimpy (never met him) i like his evil sense of humor i loved his last post with the dyno and the finger i think if extream posted the dyno we all would get along better so post the Da mn dyno sheet and tell exactly what you have done (so i can copy it )

------------------
its always the ones you dont suspect

quote Originally posted by 1987bluegt: i hate to stick up for what i have not seen but a 300hp 2.8 is possible if you punch it .060 over short stroke custom heads, headers, intake,cam,valves ect Cmon look at all the honda civics making 3-400hp DAILY (BIG TURBO) i am actually going for 250 out of mine i dont think it will be that hard to do either

300hp is not possible with the Fiero intake and cast heads. Honda's have overhead cams, much better flowing heads, and the aftermarket for high flowing intakes and exhaust is great. The only way to get high horsepower is if the engine can flow the air required. The Fiero intake can not. I don't care how much boost you have, only so much air can be forced thru the intake. With the Hi-Flo intake, It might be possible with lots of head work. Like I said above, A 3.4L with a turbo and a Fiero intake can't get over 250hp (at the flywheel) so what makes you think a 2.8L can even bored .060?

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 04-07-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 2EXTREME: My Car: 1986.5 IMSA GT (street legal) 2.8 Fully Modified / Supercharged / intercooled ....300 Hp est. at 9psi Full aero dymamics enhanced...C5R wing / air hood extractors etc Pisa interior / digital guages / momo seats, 4 point harness... Weight reduced by 250Lbs EST. 2550Lbs car weight. Willwood 13" brakes full tubular sport suspension w/ coil-overs / 1"sway bars Lambo doors, flush mount headlights / corvette tail lights 315 rear and 235 front tires on 17's Weight distribution....48% front 52% rear ... Originally posted by stimpy: I'm dusting off the bullshit flag for this one. Post pics with a newspaper on the hood, and I'll post a pic of me eating a bug.

Well, I for one see proof of the car. I also see that the HP and Weight are clearly marked in the original post as estimated numbers. I'm not a jury of 12, but my verdict is that stimpy owes us 1 chewed bug. Don't use the BS flag lightly, folks, especially when you back up the BS flag with a challenge...

[This message has been edited by fierogt88 (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: 300hp is not possible with the Fiero intake and cast heads. Honda's have overhead cams, much better flowing heads, and the aftermarket for high flowing intakes and exhaust is great. The only way to get high horsepower is if the engine can flow the air required. The Fiero intake can not. I don't care how much boost you have, only so much air can be forced thru the intake. With the Hi-Flo intake, It might be possible with lots of head work. Like I said above, A 3.4L with a turbo and a Fiero intake can't get over 250hp (at the flywheel) so what makes you think a 2.8L can even bored .060?

Its possible to achieve 300hp with a 2.8 ..heck some guy had a Datsun 510 with a 2.8 GM swap and it had the stock Fiero type manifold with twin turbos that was putting out in the neighborhood of 500 or 600 HP and it was street driven. It was said to be untouchable in a race.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: I'm not a jury of 12, but my verdict is that stimpy owes us 1 chewed bug. Don't use the BS flag lightly, folks, especially when you back up the BS flag with a challenge...

You'll get your bug. I am a man of my word, and while I do think that our thread starter was quite liberal with the exaggeration when it comes to statistics, I do believe that the car does exist with the hardware attributed to it. I indicated before that I will be masticating said insect on April 30 before witnesses, and it will be documented with both photographs and video.

You are the coolest.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: 300hp is not possible with the Fiero intake and cast heads. Honda's have overhead cams, much better flowing heads, and the aftermarket for high flowing intakes and exhaust is great. The only way to get high horsepower is if the engine can flow the air required. The Fiero intake can not. I don't care how much boost you have, only so much air can be forced thru the intake. With the Hi-Flo intake, It might be possible with lots of head work. Like I said above, A 3.4L with a turbo and a Fiero intake can't get over 250hp (at the flywheel) so what makes you think a 2.8L can even bored .060?

i said punch it over .060 short stroke it CUSTOM HEADS, headers,INTAKE,cam, valves

and im sure you can have DOHC 2.8 heads they just need to be built custom and the huge aftermarket for hondas is there because people didnt just swap V8s into them( no one take offense i actually like the idea ov a v8 in these cars) they built up what they had and someone saw it and started making some parts for them then more parts and now look at them stupid ricers they are almost as easy to get parts a a 350 chev

oh and by the way when the first chev small block came out it was left alone for almost 2 years internaly(other than bolt ons) because it was new tech no one knew much about them. so some one built one and others copied and umm..... well today you could build a 454CI SMALL BLOCK i think if people started doing more mods to the 2.8 the aftermarket would see that there is a market for that engine and start producing parts for them

you have to realize that they are not going to blindly throw money around. if they start seeing a trend they jump in thats it. so i say hell lets start the trend start building wild 2.8s so others can copy it so someone higher up can take notice

quote Originally posted by Erik: Its possible to achieve 300hp with a 2.8 ..heck some guy had a Datsun 510 with a 2.8 GM swap and it had the stock Fiero type manifold with twin turbos that was putting out in the neighborhood of 500 or 600 HP and it was street driven. It was said to be untouchable in a race.

That is NOT a Fiero intake. That is the S-10 TPI intake and it was modified. The injection system was changed to Direct-Port, the throttle body was 68mm Porsche Turbo model, used an aftermarket injection system, water injection and "O"-ringed heads. On the 510 Forum he states he had 334hp to the wheels once he went to the larger turbos and 3" exhaust and pumped up the boost from 16psi to 20psi.
The engine was built and designed by an expert race engine builder.

NOW tell me again how a 9psi supercharged 2.8L is putting out 300hp????????

Sadly, This past January he passed away due to injuries from a car accident.
Quoted from page 5 of a CarDomain site: http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/590616/1

"Tom Wyatt "TURBO TOM" Legendary Turbocharging Guru Tom's life was full of all things motorized. His work revolved around designing and building engines for racecars and experimental airplanes. Tom was a consultant, teacher, propulsion expert and adviser for Experimental Aircraft Association chapter 690. He was a specialist in computer-controlled engine management systems, a test pilot for experimental aircraft and engines, and wrote technical articles for enthusiast publications like Kitplanes and Sport Compact Car. He loved flying gliders over the Smokey Moutains and was currently building his own RV-8 experimental aircraft." Tom's mechanical knowledge, experience and expertise enabled me to own one of his creations a 510 Datsun Twin-Turbo v6 He designed and built What a car.
Tom was killed along with his girlfriend, Barbara Creamer in a car accident on January 27, 2005. May They rest in peace."

quote Originally posted by Oreif: That is NOT a Fiero intake. That is the S-10 TPI intake and it was modified. The injection system was changed to Direct-Port, the throttle body was 68mm Porsche Turbo model, used an aftermarket injection system, water injection and "O"-ringed heads. On the 510 Forum he states he had 334hp to the wheels once he went to the larger turbos and 3" exhaust and pumped up the boost from 16psi to 20psi. The engine was built and designed by an expert race engine builder. NOW tell me again how a 9psi supercharged 2.8L is putting out 300hp????????

I had the mag that had the build up and I remember it saying it was putting out 500 to 600 hp depending on boost at one point. He may have detuned it ..Regardless, I said the stock Fiero type intake. Now that may not be the Fiero manifold but its very similar, the only real difference being the throttlebody intake neck being off center to allow for the dizzy. The stock flow rate would be similar between the two. As far as modified, so what if the intake is modded, the Fiero intake can be modded as well. With the many mods done to the 510's 2.8 it only shows that it is possible to get alot of power out of the 2.8 with the right combination. I could build a 2.8 to put out close to if not more than 300hp on 9psi of boost
sad to hear about his demise

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Erik: I could build a 2.8 to put out close to if not more than 300hp on 9psi of boost sad to hear about his demise

I'd really have to see it because a 3.4dohc on 9psi is gonna be at about 300hp

quote Originally posted by Oreif: 300hp is not possible with the Fiero intake and cast heads... ...The only way to get high horsepower is if the engine can flow the air required. The Fiero intake can not. I don't care how much boost you have, only so much air can be forced thru the intake.

What kind of nonsense is this? I can get 10,000 CFM down a 1/4" pipe with enough pressure difference.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: That is NOT a Fiero intake. That is the S-10 TPI intake and it was modified. The injection system was changed to Direct-Port, the throttle body was 68mm Porsche Turbo model, used an aftermarket injection system, water injection and "O"-ringed heads. On the 510 Forum he states he had 334hp to the wheels once he went to the larger turbos and 3" exhaust and pumped up the boost from 16psi to 20psi. The engine was built and designed by an expert race engine builder. NOW tell me again how a 9psi supercharged 2.8L is putting out 300hp????????

334 rwhp ~ 390 at the crank @$$uming 15% driveline loss. That's at 20 psi boost which is 34 psi manifold pressure. 300 is 3/4 the HP and should only take 3/4 the manifold pressure, which is about 25.5 or roughly 10.5 psi boost. Still seem completely outlandish?

Now what do you mean "converted to direct port"? That intake uses EXACTLY the same lower and middle as the Fiero... meaning that it's port injection from the factory. I don't get what you're trying to emphasize here.

quote Originally posted by Erik:

Is this setup possible to fit in a fiero?

quote Originally posted by netpro55: Is this setup possible to fit in a fiero?

with some creative plumbing you can put a twin turbo setup in a fiero.. but it'd be for bragging rights more than performance

quote Originally posted by Will: What kind of nonsense is this? I can get 10,000 CFM down a 1/4" pipe with enough pressure difference.

Yeah, with about 400psi. We are talking automotive engines here. You are not going to see 400psi on a turbo or supercharger.
There is no way the Fiero intake will hold 400psi.
The problem is the Fiero intake is efficient with up to about 7psi. Once you increase boost over that, your efficiency drops and more boost is required to move the same amount of air. 20psi thru a Fiero intake would be about 14psi on Francis T's intake to move the same CFM of air. (Just doing a quick calculation)

quote Originally posted by Will: 334 rwhp ~ 390 at the crank @$$uming 15% driveline loss. That's at 20 psi boost which is 34 psi manifold pressure. 300 is 3/4 the HP and should only take 3/4 the manifold pressure, which is about 25.5 or roughly 10.5 psi boost. Still seem completely outlandish?

Yes it is "outlandish", Boost is not "linear" in a restrictive intake. The more boost you add, the less air per psi you move. So cutting the boost in half does not give you 3/4 the horsepower. It works out the other way, 3/4 the boost gets you 1/2 the horsepower. So at around 16psi he would be at 300hp at the crank. 9psi would be 230hp. Now that is just boost, Lets now add on a belt and pulley to drive the 9psi. This also requires horspower to turn the compressor. Again, I still don't see 300hp out of a supercharged 2.8L with only 9psi of boost. How many people here are running a turbo on a 2.8L or even a 3.4L?? I have yet to see one dyno'd over 250hp. If I'm wrong, show me or send a link to the dyno.
Fierosound is using a supercharger and water injection on his 3.4L, Does anyone know what his horsepower is? If I had to guess, I'd say he was right around 220hp at 6psi. so increasing the boost by 3psi and lowering the displacement by .6 liters gains you 80hp????

RSM advertises a dyno verified 220hp with 8psi on a 2.8L so 1 psi increases 80hp?? The Fiero intake will not allow you to do it.
RSM website shows they are getting 250hp out of the GM 3400 engines. Now these engines have way better aluminum head flow than the cast heads, way better intake flow, and Larger displacement.

quote Originally posted by Will: Now what do you mean "converted to direct port"? That intake uses EXACTLY the same lower and middle as the Fiero... meaning that it's port injection from the factory. I don't get what you're trying to emphasize here.

It does NOT use the factory fuel rail. The Fiero is "Multiport" meaning 3 injectors fire for each cylinder. Direct- port is one injector per cylinder. It has the injectors in the same location, But the injectors are larger and only one fires per cylinder. This make power gains and tuning much easier. As for the intake on the actual car, The entire intake was extrude-honed, polished, and tuned for the twin turbo's. The flow thru it is a lot more than the Fiero intake. If you look at the magazine article on the building of the Datsun, The intake set-up is heavily modified even though it appears stock looking.
I don't think the guy who started this thread spent $25K - $30K on his 9psi supercharged 2.8L, My guess is he did some porting, cam upgrade, and the supercharger. Lets see a list of mods he's done to the 2.8L and I can tell you how much it's putting out.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Yeah, with about 400psi. We are talking automotive engines here. You are not going to see 400psi on a turbo or supercharger. There is no way the Fiero intake will hold 400psi. The problem is the Fiero intake is efficient with up to about 7psi. Once you increase boost over that, your efficiency drops and more boost is required to move the same amount of air. 20psi thru a Fiero intake would be about 14psi on Francis T's intake to move the same CFM of air. (Just doing a quick calculation)

I know it would take huge pressure to get that flow out of a pipe that small... Just doing a reality check on your statement.
Are those more "flow calculations" based on flow estimates based on rough measurements of the runner dimensions? I love making fun of those estimates.

quote Yes it is "outlandish", Boost is not "linear" in a restrictive intake. The more boost you add, the less air per psi you move. So cutting the boost in half does not give you 3/4 the horsepower. It works out the other way, 3/4 the boost gets you 1/2 the horsepower. So at around 16psi he would be at 300hp at the crank. 9psi would be 230hp. Now that is just boost, Lets now add on a belt and pulley to drive the 9psi. This also requires horspower to turn the compressor. Again, I still don't see 300hp out of a supercharged 2.8L with only 9psi of boost. How many people here are running a turbo on a 2.8L or even a 3.4L?? I have yet to see one dyno'd over 250hp. If I'm wrong, show me or send a link to the dyno. Fierosound is using a supercharger and water injection on his 3.4L, Does anyone know what his horsepower is? If I had to guess, I'd say he was right around 220hp at 6psi. so increasing the boost by 3psi and lowering the displacement by .6 liters gains you 80hp????

You're working your diminishing returns backwards. If the Fiero intake is that non-linear, then backing off a few psi won't cost much horsepower. Your argument actually supports the idea that a 9 psi 2.8 can make 300 HP.

quote RSM advertises a dyno verified 220hp with 8psi on a 2.8L so 1 psi increases 80hp?? The Fiero intake will not allow you to do it. RSM website shows they are getting 250hp out of the GM 3400 engines. Now these engines have way better aluminum head flow than the cast heads, way better intake flow, and Larger displacement.

Does RSM advertise their 220 on a stock 2.8? You really think a fully built 2.8 would NOT gain 80 more HP? Is the 250 HP number from N/A or S/C 3.4?

quote It does NOT use the factory fuel rail. The Fiero is "Multiport" meaning 3 injectors fire for each cylinder. Direct- port is one injector per cylinder. It has the injectors in the same location, But the injectors are larger and only one fires per cylinder. This make power gains and tuning much easier. As for the intake on the actual car, The entire intake was extrude-honed, polished, and tuned for the twin turbo's. The flow thru it is a lot more than the Fiero intake. If you look at the magazine article on the building of the Datsun, The intake set-up is heavily modified even though it appears stock looking. I don't think the guy who started this thread spent $25K - $30K on his 9psi supercharged 2.8L, My guess is he did some porting, cam upgrade, and the supercharger. Lets see a list of mods he's done to the 2.8L and I can tell you how much it's putting out.

You're confusing your fuel injection terminology. The Fiero has port injection stock. This is hardware. Other forms of fuel injection hardware are throttle body and direct (into the cylinder like a diesel). The Fiero injection is run as a batch fire with all the injectors for one bank firing at once. Even though they are fired this way, there is still only one injector per cylinder and each injector only feeds one cylinder. This is set up in the controls/software. If he's switched to an aftermarket computer with sequential injection... yay for him. Sequential does NOT yield more power than batch fire. It yields slightly better emissions, fuel economy and driveability at low RPM, but the ultimate power difference--and even area under the curve difference--is exceedingly small.

Do you really think that no one else in the world can have an intake extrude honed? That doesn't take any more skill than writing a check.

quote Originally posted by Will: You're working your diminishing returns backwards. If the Fiero intake is that non-linear, then backing off a few psi won't cost much horsepower. Your argument actually supports the idea that a 9 psi 2.8 can make 300 HP.

Huh? You say 10.5 psi of boost would be 300hp, I said that it would require more like 16psi to get to 300hp. Which means if you back-off a few PSI it will cost you more horsepower.
How does that support the argument 9psi will get you 300hp?????
Any restriction in non-linear. To increase the CFM's you need more pressure per CFM to move it past the restriction.

quote Originally posted by Will: Does RSM advertise their 220 on a stock 2.8? You really think a fully built 2.8 would NOT gain 80 more HP? Is the 250 HP number from N/A or S/C 3.4?

On the 2.8L, Not with the Fiero intake and only 9psi. You can build the 2.8L all you want. If it can't draw the air it won't make power.
The 3400 engine is supercharged with the series III aluminum heads. The aluminum heads flow way more than the cast heads. The 3400 intake also flows way more than a Fiero intake. Not to mention the increased displacement. So if a larger, better flowing engine with 8psi is making 250hp, How does a smaller more restrictive engine with 1psi more gain 50hp??

quote Originally posted by Will: You're confusing your fuel injection terminology. The Fiero has port injection stock. This is hardware. Other forms of fuel injection hardware are throttle body and direct (into the cylinder like a diesel). The Fiero injection is run as a batch fire with all the injectors for one bank firing at once. Even though they are fired this way, there is still only one injector per cylinder and each injector only feeds one cylinder. This is set up in the controls/software. If he's switched to an aftermarket computer with sequential injection... yay for him. Sequential does NOT yield more power than batch fire. It yields slightly better emissions, fuel economy and driveability at low RPM, but the ultimate power difference--and even area under the curve difference--is exceedingly small. Do you really think that no one else in the world can have an intake extrude honed? That doesn't take any more skill than writing a check.

There is direct-port injection (same as sequential.) which is 1 injector fires into the intake port of a cylinder.
(Direct-port is what it was called before the term "sequential" was used.)
Direct injection is as you say like diesel where it shoots into the cylinder.
"Bank fire" and "Multi-port" are the same thing as well.
When using high boost Direct-port (or sequential) will gain you more power because tuning of each cylinder is more accurate and the entire engine can be balanced in terms of air/fuel mix in each cylinder. With Multi-port or bank firing under boost can lead to cylinder to cylinder differences.

Yes, you can extrude-hone the Fiero intake. But has anyone done it?

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Huh? You say 10.5 psi of boost would be 300hp, I said that it would require more like 16psi to get to 300hp. Which means if you back-off a few PSI it will cost you more horsepower. How does that support the argument 9psi will get you 300hp????? Any restriction in non-linear. To increase the CFM's you need more pressure per CFM to move it past the restriction.

You brought up the 334 RWHP 2.8 on 20 psi. If the Fiero intake is as non-linear as you claim, then the last five psi of boost netted him a LOT LESS power than the first... oh, say, 9 psi. So going by your argument, it is feasible to get most of the power gain from the first few psi of boost.

quote On the 2.8L, Not with the Fiero intake and only 9psi. You can build the 2.8L all you want. If it can't draw the air it won't make power. The 3400 engine is supercharged with the series III aluminum heads. The aluminum heads flow way more than the cast heads. The 3400 intake also flows way more than a Fiero intake. Not to mention the increased displacement. So if a larger, better flowing engine with 8psi is making 250hp, How does a smaller more restrictive engine with 1psi more gain 50hp??

Ok, a 2.8 makes 220 HP on 8 psi (only 78.5 HP/litre, BTW) but an engine 0.6 litres bigger with better heads and cam only makes 30 more HP (73.5 HP/litre) on the same amount of boost... Something's fishy with those RSM numbers. You're not selecting good examples to back your point.

quote There is direct-port injection (same as sequential.) which is 1 injector fires into the intake port of a cylinder. (Direct-port is what it was called before the term "sequential" was used.) Direct injection is as you say like diesel where it shoots into the cylinder. "Bank fire" and "Multi-port" are the same thing as well. When using high boost Direct-port (or sequential) will gain you more power because tuning of each cylinder is more accurate and the entire engine can be balanced in terms of air/fuel mix in each cylinder. With Multi-port or bank firing under boost can lead to cylinder to cylinder differences.

The V6 used in Fieros is called a 2.8 MPFI. That's multi-port fuel injection. And semantics. Port injection is one injector per cylinder no matter how they're controlled.
What's the duty cycle of a well sized injector at peak engine power? about 80%.
What's the duty cycle of an intake valve, even with a radical cam? 270 degrees of total duration represents a duty cycle of (270/720) = 37.5%. At WOT the injector is firing at a closed intake valve most of the time. Sequential or batch DOES NOT MATTER for power production. It only matters for emissions, driveability and fuel economy at low RPM.

quote Yes, you can extrude-hone the Fiero intake. But has anyone done it?

Yeah, the guy in the example you cited did it...
You're making it sound like a body would have to be a race engine builder with deep knowledge of the arcane secrets of Shangri-La to do that... one just has to be able to scrawl an address on a shipping label and write a check.

quote Originally posted by Will: blah, blah, blah,......

Ok Will, whatever.

Point is the person who started this thread states he has 300hp and has hinted he has a dyno but doesn't want to show it. He also states his car weighs 2550lbs. With all the front and side beams removed, the car is a rolling accident waiting to happen.
I still say he's way over-estimating his horsepower and his weight loss.

I also think he's overestimating his HP and weight reduction to some extent.

BUT... the people who are throwing the BS flags are getting some mob think together and I like to break that up with comon sense and analytical thinking.

And I like flustering you... 'cause it's fun.

quote Originally posted by Will: And I like flustering you... 'cause it's fun.

ROTFLMAO!
If you only knew.
HaHaHa.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: ROTFLMAO! If you only knew. HaHaHa.

Yeah, your out of date information on Steve Hamm's car was hilarious.

http://www.realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=5611

It seems to be that most, if not everyone thinks that power and speed = race car (unbeatable)....but it seems that no one concentrates on getting it togther with real performance ie. handing / control. I only think one thing especially if you have a fiero ....why the heck would you buy a mid-engine for....?

2Extreme,

Thanks for sending those pics... I doubted too when I read your claims... but WOW... that represent A LOT of work. I can hardly find the motivation to change the oil, and you've got lambo doors for gosh sake! So let me apologize for being an early skeptic... we get so many talkers around here...

There was one guy PFF busted for posting a faked time slip. V8Fiero400 or something like that... He actually fessed up and was apologetic about the whole thing. Anyway, I am pleased to see your a 'doer' and not a talker. I like your vision for that car.

Couple of things...
1) I really like your hood scoop. It seems to flow very nicely.
2) With weight savings in mind...are you running a stick? What kind of tranny, and what have you done to it?

again, good stuff. I look forward to following your adventures with this ride!

Thanks...there is alot of hard work involved, and mostly all done by me. The trans. is a stock 5spd. with aluminum flywheel and ceramic disc clutch. The front hood vent flows all the air that chanels out from the radiatior (free flow) but some of the sheet metal behind the radiator must be trimmed about 4" to have smooth flow of air out of the hood. The car is currently undergoing a paint job (Fiero Black) and I will soon be driving this car soon, but mostley for track use only.

quote That is the S-10 TPI intake

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like the MPFI intake on the High Output 2.8 L44 V6 Chevy Citation X-11.

It was one year only if I'm not mistaken..... 1985?

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 04-12-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Skybax: Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like the MPFI intake on the High Output 2.8 L44 V6 Chevy Citation X-11. It was one year only if I'm not mistaken..... 1985?

May have been used on Citations, but it's also used on S-10's.
Unless you see something on that picture that differentiates it from the S-10 intake...

Correction... LB6 2.8.

I was right about the year though.

Here is a site I'm sure your aware of...

http://www.geocities.com/citation_x11/history.html

quote Fiero L44 uses the same block (67mm). The cams, pistons, timing chains, and heads are the same. For the FI models, the intake, fuel rail and lower plenum are the same, but the top plenum is different. All of these parts will work in the LH7 or LB6.

Did anyone ever test one of these upper plenums to see if it flowed better than the Fiero upper plenum?

Sorry if this was discussed already, I jumped in here way too late.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 04-13-2005).]

I'd guess that the RWD plenum flow better than the FWD plenum because the TB neck of the RWD setup comes off straight, but the TB neck for the FWD plenum has to jink around the dizzy and compromises flow because of the reduction of cross sectional area.

quote Originally posted by Skybax: Did anyone ever test one of these upper plenums to see if it flowed better than the Fiero upper plenum? Sorry if this was discussed already, I jumped in here way too late.

It should flow better due to the short neck, But the problem would be fitting it on the car. The Fiero plenum has the long angled neck to clear the distributor. The RWD points off the front of the engine. So it doesn't hit the distributor and the thermostat housing isn't the tall one like on the Fiero so you can't reverse it. This is the same problem with using the F-body 3.4L plenum, The distributor is in the way.

Nothing that starting with a DIS shortblock and wiring for DIS wouldn't fix