You could get really close with a custom set of true crossover headers so the exhaust pulses combine in the same order as a Ferrari. There was a 10second 260Z at last years GRM challenge with a wicked 350 that sounded nothing like any american V8 ive ever heard. He handbuilt a great set of crossover headers for it. I guess it didnt sound quite like a Ferrari-more like a F1 car-but that works for me too.

Good luck getting a set in a fiero engine bay though.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: 348 TB-TS 89- up Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips FE4320 . . . 355 Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips ( 6-speed manual only ) ( Not for F1 gearbox models) FE4620 . . . 360 Modena Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips FE4720

Very innovative, and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in my upcoming Northstar install. I'm anxious to see you put one on a Fiero, and hear some clips of what it sounds like. To me, a system like this looks much better than welding together a bunch of pipes and trying to tie in a muffler or two along with those pipes. If it sounds anything like an exotic when it's done, I'm sold.

My N* is in a 355 kit and sounds more like a nascar. It has dual cats and what looks like dual shorty glasspacks. If yours turns out sounding like a 355 I will be wanting to change out too. I've already given up my trunk so I have lost of room although I have Petes old turbo setup for a future upgrade. I guess I would have to give that up. I really appreciate all the details in your post.

Dammit cant find the thread, but heres a nice exhaust on a Nstar

I have one of these 355 mufflers. It is very large and heavy. I think it is all stainless steel. I had purchased one for my LS1 setup so it had true duel exhaust.

I ended up using the camaro duel inlet muffler instead.




Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 03-29-2007).]

I will Try the ANSA Exhaust.
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Caddy owners have money. We get all sorts of cars in.


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I am head back and plan on stopping across the street to have a talk with the two Italian guys that run the place.


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I have done a lot of favors for a lot of people now it is my turn. It has been going well.

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 05-03-2007).]

I hadn't realized you where from tosa. I've always wanted to ride in a Nstar Fiero

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: Very innovative, and pretty much exactly what I'm looking for in my upcoming Northstar install. I'm anxious to see you put one on a Fiero, and hear some clips of what it sounds like. To me, a system like this looks much better than welding together a bunch of pipes and trying to tie in a muffler or two along with those pipes. If it sounds anything like an exotic when it's done, I'm sold.

I have a 355 OEM Muffler for sale, it only has 1400 miles on it and is pure SS construction.
If anyone wants it please PM me or email me with your offer $250 OBO

Myferrari355spider@yahoo.com

^^^ If only I had the cash right now.

Sent PM

I forgot to add, $250 is fine with me. I have paypal or can send a check.

I stopped by Reina and talked to one of the guy's. He pointed me to a 360 Muffler, but I wanted to know how wide and then I drove the car over. We measured a Testarossa and it was too narrow. He said they used to do kit cars and to use 2 glass packs. He asked me to start the car and Everybody came out of the shop to see the car. He can get ANSA, but sells Tubla. I think it was Tubla. They only build Ferrari mufflers so it was probably $3000. I have seen 360 mufflers for sale for $3000. I would like to stay under $1500. He thought $1500 was a lot if I have to cut it up. I will start looking for a used one to cut up before a buy a new one.

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

The ferrari mufflers usually have 2 paths through them, and use a valve to flip between them. Basically it's like a WOT cutout by switching to a less restrictive muffler path.

The only car I've heard that sounds like a ferarri is the 3.4DOHC. A 90 degree V8 will never sound like a ferrari without some massive exhaust work. Custom headers, equal length exhaust, equilizer tube, etc. A muffler alone won't give you the sound you want. Not that this will stop you...

Ryan I see your point. The 355 muffler has the converter by pass it is at the top and in the center. It is RPM switched. At least that is what the Italian dude told me.


I would either block it off or work two pipes into three.
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Note the 360 muffler that I like from ANSA has two in and four out. The tail pipes unbolt. If I had to cut someting I think it would be the tail pipes. This would leave the muffler untouched. The pipes would look fine after modifications.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-31-2007).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: A 90 degree V8 will never sound like a ferrari without some massive exhaust work. Custom headers, equal length exhaust, equilizer tube, etc. A muffler alone won't give you the sound you want. Not that this will stop you...

Have you driven or worked on one of these 350's? I have worked on and driven several. This one is in the shop now. We have the second key also. That would be to turn on the other 8 injectors and fuel pump.
How do they sound?




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My job sucks LOL

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 04-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Have you driven or worked on one of these 350's? I have worked on and driven several. This one is in the shop now. We have the second key also. That would be to turn on the other 8 injectors and fuel pump. How do they sound? My job sucks LOL

You may know this already, but for those who dont.

The ferrari V8 and american V8 have a different style crank and firing order.

This leads to different exhaust pulse timing:
American= pulse-pulse-pulsepulse
Ferrari= pulse-pulse-pulse-pulse

The american V8 has a rumbly exhaust note due to the close exhaust pulses producing a strong sound in the middle of the other sounds. The uneven exhaust pulse timing also neccesitates a larger collector design on headers leading to a deeper exhaust pitch.

Ferrari V8's have a smooth exhaust pitch due to even exhaust timing. The even timing also allows for smaller collectors on headers causing a slightly higher pitch exhaust note.

The way to achieve a similar note to a ferrari with an american V8 is to combine the exhaust pipes in a way that puts an evenly spaced pattern of pulses into the headers. To do this you must combine one specific header pipe from one bank with 3 from the other bank. This leads to headers that resemble what is often called a "bundle of snakes"

The benefit of all this is that your primative "Mercan V8" can sound like a high priced exotic.

Myself, I don't care whether a Ferrari muffler sounds like a Ferrari in a Fiero. The reason I want the Ferrari muffler, is so that is has a nice, mellow tone at idle; and yet can still flow enough air at WOT to keep the N* happy. I'm looking for a muffler system that is easy to install, and won't give away that there's a V8 under the hood. I'm partial to the "sleeper" cars. When someone pulls up next to me at a light, I don't want them to hear the exhaust and know that my car is fast. I want their first clue to be when they only see my taillights as I pull away from them.



Not to mention, that looks very simple to install. Just connect one manifold to one inlet, and the other manifold to the other inlet; and then you'd only need to lenghten/shorten the outlet pipes to match the openings of the Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Deabionni (edited 03-31-2007).]

That 360 muffler on Ebay has the tail pipes on the wrong sides.

I noticed that. I've seen some where the pipes would be aimed towards the engine. Any idea what years they offered the pipes towards the engine?

The 360 muflers have two in.
This OEM set of tail pipes switch from 2 out to 4 out with vacuum valves. You don't know how it is in the muffler. It could bypass some baffles.

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This setup does not.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...get#ebayphotohosting


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The 355 have 3 in and 4 out.


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also look here click on the photos
http://www.ansaautomotive.c...istings/ferrari.html

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Have you driven or worked on one of these 350's? I have worked on and driven several. This one is in the shop now. We have the second key also. That would be to turn on the other 8 injectors and fuel pump. How do they sound?

And what do they have? headers, equal length exhaust, crossover pipe, etc etc...

every single one of the items I listed.

You can do some marvelous things with the exhaust note with the above items.... Check out this LS1:

http://www.esnips.com/doc/a...b-e5e2f3cb9c5f/c5rev

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Have you driven or worked on one of these 350's? I have worked on and driven several. This one is in the shop now. We have the second key also. That would be to turn on the other 8 injectors and fuel pump. How do they sound? My job sucks LOL

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY LT5! Ya think it will fit in a Fiero? The only problem is that it weighs a ton.

quote Originally posted by Deabionni: Myself, I don't care whether a Ferrari muffler sounds like a Ferrari in a Fiero. The reason I want the Ferrari muffler, is so that is has a nice, mellow tone at idle; and yet can still flow enough air at WOT to keep the N* happy.

You going to install that Ferrari exhaust valve to flip between the idle/WOT muffler paths? Using the single idle muffler path will give you a quiet exhaust, but a restricted flow. The WOT muffler path would be the opposite. Can't have both without that valve.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: You going to install that Ferrari exhaust valve to flip between the idle/WOT muffler paths? Using the single idle muffler path will give you a quiet exhaust, but a restricted flow. The WOT muffler path would be the opposite. Can't have both without that valve.

If I can figure it out, I'd hook it up with that valve in place. Using it in that fashion sounds like I'd achieve exactly what I'm looking for.

anyone have any pictures of interior parts, installations, console?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: 180 degree headers works... 180 degree crank works... but for those of us on a more realistic playing field, you can get very close to that ferrari sound just just a few simple mods.... (see above audio clip)

Do you trust that sound clip? I only ask because an LS1 video that sounded almost exactly like that on torquecentral turned out to be a corsa exhaust on speed-meaning sped up by about 50%.

That said, what would you do to duplicate that sound with a northstar in a transverse install?

I do not agree with the term 180° crank. I would think split throw crank and maybe flat plan. Split throw cranks break, makes for uneven crank load in most applications. I just read a little bit on this V8 crank it is like a 60° V6 crank and I am familiar with it. One application used a twisted cross plane or 90° crank. I am not 100° positive that the 05 + engines are this way.
This leads to different exhaust pulse timing:
American= pulse-pulse-pulsepulse
Ferrari= pulse-pulse-pulse-pulse

The American V8 has a rumbly exhaust note due to the close exhaust pulses producing a strong sound in the middle of the other sounds. The uneven exhaust pulse timing also necessitates a larger collector design on headers leading to a deeper exhaust pitch.

Ferrari V8's have a smooth exhaust pitch due to even exhaust timing. The even timing also allows for smaller collectors on headers causing a slightly higher pitch exhaust note.

360

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430




------------------
Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
Formerly Washougal WA Resident
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 04-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Sloshua71: Do you trust that sound clip? I only ask because an LS1 video that sounded almost exactly like that on torquecentral turned out to be a corsa exhaust on speed-meaning sped up by about 50%. That said, what would you do to duplicate that sound with a northstar in a transverse install?

Good point. It's the only LS1 I've heard that sounded good, so maybe it is a fluke/artificial clip. But then I'm not really searching out LS1 clips or anything...

Equal length exhaust is a must. That means compensating for the front ->rear crossover pipe with some extra length on the rear manifold. "X" pipe/crossover is a must to equalize the double firing pulse mentioned above (the even-odd-odd-even-odd-even-even-odd...) Short(er) headers, with staggered collector entry points.

I have a dash project. I need to mount my cluster and I have a dash from a STS like this. I will section in a portion. I have two other complete dashes I may use instead.



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The 90 prototype

Was this Instrument panel trim covers used on any production vehicles?

OK I got it back together this morning.
I got two snapshots
This is the first WOT run with the trans wired correctly.
It slipped in 3rd or shifted back into 2nd. you can see it at 98 MPH.
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The time in frame that may equeal second would be 0 to 98 in 9.431 frames and 102 at 10.163 frames.
If I checked it in run tine it is 9 and 10 seconds.
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[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 04-09-2007).]

Unless you're hitting the NOS, 12 seconds would be the "right answer".