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ECM upgrade (1227730) for stock 2.8 by Darth Fiero
Started on: 01-09-2007 02:26 PM
Replies: 1064 (83943 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 10-11-2017 07:17 PM
perry rhodan
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Report this Post07-12-2007 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for perry rhodanClick Here to visit perry rhodan's HomePageClick Here to Email perry rhodanSend a Private Message to perry rhodanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I do it for my 3.4 (in fact a 3400 dressed with Fiero intake and all). I will not make the "tuning" and "programming" myself, but I think it will need some tweaking and adjustment, just like it will have to be necessary with a 3.4 swap with the wiring harness and ECM from a Fiero.

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Hudini
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Report this Post07-12-2007 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I used the 3.4L DIS with my 7730 swap and ran the car with the stock memcal just to see if it would. It actually started and idled better than the Fiero ECM with distributor (and programmed chip). It was very rich until the car went closed loop. Then it idled right at 14.7:1 on the wideband. It wouldn't rev though. It would go rich and bog. Once I received my Darth Fiero chip all was well.

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PaulJK
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Report this Post07-15-2007 03:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ryan, can you please PM me a quote on cost for installing this ECU and a 4 speed auto trans into a stock 86SE with existing stock auto trans ? i will need you to supply the 4 speed auto trans and the new ECU. Thank You

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Madess
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Report this Post07-20-2007 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I thought I posted this yesterday? strange, maybe I didnt hit submit...

couple quick questions, if they have been asked and answered, forgive me.

first - knock sensor, as long as the car is the same year and engine, you are good with the knock sensor right - I am assuming auto vs stick doesnt matter?

second - knock sensor and digital egr wiring? where do you wire them too?

thanks
Matt

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-20-2007 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Madess:

I thought I posted this yesterday? strange, maybe I didnt hit submit...

couple quick questions, if they have been asked and answered, forgive me.

first - knock sensor, as long as the car is the same year and engine, you are good with the knock sensor right - I am assuming auto vs stick doesnt matter?

second - knock sensor and digital egr wiring? where do you wire them too?

thanks
Matt


The knock sensor you use must match the mem-cal used in the computer (both have to be from same vehicle/engine). If you get me the BCC code off the mem-cal you have (see a pic here: http://www.gmtuners.com/eprom/BCC.jpg ) I can tell you what vehicle it came out of. Manual/auto trans does NOT matter.

The knock sensor uses one wire that must be run directly to the 7730 ECM. The digital EGR has 4 wires; 1 gets connected to an ignition 12v + power source (stock Fiero EGR solenoid power will work) and the other 3 get connected directly to the 7730 ECM.

-ryan

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rjblaze
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Report this Post07-20-2007 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think my answer is in here somewhere but I can't find it. Can the 7730 be used for a 3.4 TDC swap?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-21-2007 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:

I think my answer is in here somewhere but I can't find it. Can the 7730 be used for a 3.4 TDC swap?


Yes but why? The amount of tuning required to get the 3.4 DOHC engine running good on a 7730 would be very time consuming and probably not worthwhile, especially considering when you can start with a 3.4 DOHC ECM that is already programmed to work with the engine.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-21-2007).]

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merlot566jka
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Report this Post07-28-2007 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for merlot566jkaClick Here to Email merlot566jkaSend a Private Message to merlot566jkaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ryan,

I got some access to the net for the next day or so. i found the diagrams and pinouts on your site. are the beretta and jbody harness going to be the same almost?

whats this power steering input to the ecm for?

the high and low vss inputs, i assume, are just like the ones shown in your camaro distributor 7730 diagram? no need for the low?

thank you ryan, i may have more questions, if you dont mind, ill email them to you!

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Jncomutt
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Report this Post07-29-2007 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm building a conversion harness right now using beretta connectors. There are some wires that are missing and some of the colors are different but they can be used. Its not too big deal whether you use the camaro or beretta since you have to move stuff and soldier it all together anyways.

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perry rhodan
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Report this Post07-29-2007 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for perry rhodanClick Here to visit perry rhodan's HomePageClick Here to Email perry rhodanSend a Private Message to perry rhodanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Jncomutt:

I'm building a conversion harness right now using beretta connectors. There are some wires that are missing and some of the colors are different but they can be used. Its not too big deal whether you use the camaro or beretta since you have to move stuff and soldier it all together anyways.



Did you had trouble with the one you made in May (see your previous post) or this is another try to something different?

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Jncomutt
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Report this Post07-29-2007 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-09-2007).]

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rmcmsw
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Report this Post07-29-2007 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rmcmswClick Here to Email rmcmswSend a Private Message to rmcmswEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a 2.8 1989/90 Fiero V-6 engine installed in my 86 GT. I purchased this engine back in 1992 from a salvage yard in Detroit that had purchased all remaining items from Pontiac. This engine was still on it's original assembly-line pallet.

It had an anti-knock sensor installed on it, no cold-start injector ( the hole on the lower manifold was plugged with a softplug and the fuel-rail did'nt have the provision for the 7th injector), and all the vacuum bosses were plugged with rubber caps for the EGR system and it had very few vacuum lines. The EGR system was what GM called the digital EGR like the one you've used. I have the original EGR mounting bracket. It is a cast-iron block which mounted on the firewall side head (facing the left side of the engine) and the SS flex tubing hooked-up to the bottom side of the upper manifold like an original V-6 and the exhaust side went to the closest exhaust runner and had a fitting welded to it.

I asked the GM area service rep about this engine and he said the reason for discontinuing the cold-start system was it was causing engine fires. The cold start injector was mounted to the manifold using one small bolt and a rubber "O" ring which would dry up from heat and crack thus allowing fuel to be sprayed all over the engine from a cold start-up; thus Fire! This service rep was the one who wrote the Fiero "How To" manual supplied with every car. One has to crank the engine a couple more cranks for a cold start but is not a big deal. I don't even think about it anymore.

At least now I know which ECM to use and can finally use this EGR system. I kept all the parts in a box all these years. Also, this engine is a 3.1. I crossed referenced the crankshaft part number and it is correct for a 3.1. The pistons are dished in like the 3.1 pistons but cross-referencing the part numbers, I came up with a "part number not found." The part number on the TB was different as well but it looks almost the same as the one that came with our cars. The wiring harness for the injectors was slightly different with a connector that I couldn't use so I installed an 88 harness.

The engine looks a lot cleaner without all those vacuum lines and plumbing used for the EGR.
Thanks for putting this post on the network.

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perry rhodan
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Hey! picture please!!!

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post07-30-2007 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by merlot566jka:

Ryan,

I got some access to the net for the next day or so. i found the diagrams and pinouts on your site. are the beretta and jbody harness going to be the same almost?

whats this power steering input to the ecm for?

the high and low vss inputs, i assume, are just like the ones shown in your camaro distributor 7730 diagram? no need for the low?

thank you ryan, i may have more questions, if you dont mind, ill email them to you!


Beretta and J Body cars will be significantly different than the F-body in respect to the ignition system. ALL FWD V6 cars that used the 7730 ECM had a distributorless ignition system. Like the Fiero 2.8, the F-body 3.1 had a distributor; so that part of the wiring would be different. Everything else is very similar.

If your engine in your Fiero is using a distributorless ignition system (DIS), then you should use the 1991-93 L & J body (Beretta, Cavalier, etc) 3.1 MFI wiring diagrams.

If your engine in your Fiero has a distributor, then you should use the 1990-92 F-body 3.1 diagrams or my special wiring instructions for this conversion.

Concerning the power steering switch input, since the Fiero doesn't have power steering, you don't need to worry about this.

The hi/low VSS inputs to the ECM should be wired up accordingly to the stock Fiero VSS (same wire colors). You don't need to run the Fiero's speedometer off the 7730 ECM if you are still using a stock Fiero transmission. If this is the case all you need to do is simply tie-in the 7730's VSS input wires to the existing Fiero VSS wiring.

If you have any other questions feel free to email them to me.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 07-30-2007).]

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CAB
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Report this Post08-01-2007 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CABClick Here to Email CABSend a Private Message to CABEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darth, I have a 3100 SFI from a 2001 Malibu and have connected to 7730 with a chip redone by yourself. Which selection of freescan would I monitor the operation of ECM? GM Pontaic 3.2 or 410B? If I choose the wrong one what would happen?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-02-2007 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by CAB:

Darth, I have a 3100 SFI from a 2001 Malibu and have connected to 7730 with a chip redone by yourself. Which selection of freescan would I monitor the operation of ECM? GM Pontaic 3.2 or 410B? If I choose the wrong one what would happen?



Try "Pontiac 3.2". If that doesn't work, try downloading the TTS Datamaster scanner program for the 89 Grand Prix 3.1 Turbo ($8F) and see if that works.

-ryan

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perry rhodan
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Report this Post08-06-2007 07:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for perry rhodanClick Here to visit perry rhodan's HomePageClick Here to Email perry rhodanSend a Private Message to perry rhodanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Grasiously from rmcmsw pennocks member, I will post the picures of the digital EGR that was supposed to find its way into the Fiero engine bay later in '88 or in '89.

Its a remote EGR....I think its a very nice setup since it keep the EGR more cooler than if it was located right on the crossover pipe. This setup is similar to the other GM V6 in the fact that it put it away from the exhaust pipe and its direct heat. Look how the EGR is hooked directly at the exhaust manifold between the exhaust port.


[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 08-06-2007).]

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Longshots7
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Report this Post08-14-2007 03:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Longshots7Click Here to visit Longshots7's HomePageClick Here to Email Longshots7Send a Private Message to Longshots7Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm new to posting but have been using the forum for a long time and have been watching this thread for awhile. I'm ready to try it. Does anyone still have one of these around with the memcal and knock sensor? I searched Ebay but have not had luck finding one complete. I have an 87 GT with a 3.4 in it. It still uses a distributor. If anyone can help me find the parts I can prolly do this, but I just don't know what I'm looking for.

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Hudini
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Report this Post08-14-2007 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You can post a WTB in the Mall section of the Forum. Or look back to the earlier pages and find Darth's list of cars that came with the 7730 ECM then go to the junkyard and get one yourself. Get one from a V6 car as that has the proper memcal.

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rjblaze
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Report this Post08-31-2007 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

First off this needs a BUMP!

Second: I don't want to start any arguements but, in another thread by ryan.hess
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/070626.html
he states that the 7730 will control a 4T60E transmission because it is already set up for it.

In this thread you state that the 7730 will not control any "E" transmissions.

I have access to a good 4T60E transmission and know that it needs to be controlled by the ecm (PCM) electronically. I really don't want to spend $700 to $1500 for a separate controller.

I also read somewhere on the forum that a 3800 pcm can be converted into a controller...is this right?

I am planning on a complete 3400 swap N/A in the beginning, and then maybe turbo later.
Any ideas?

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Pyrthian
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Report this Post08-31-2007 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:
....
I am planning on a complete 3400 swap N/A in the beginning, and then maybe turbo later.
Any ideas?


well, if you are planning the full alum head 3400, you will be using the ECM - and that pretty much walks in the ability to use the 4t60

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-01-2007 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:

Second: I don't want to start any arguements but, in another thread by ryan.hess
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/070626.html
he states that the 7730 will control a 4T60E transmission because it is already set up for it.

In this thread you state that the 7730 will not control any "E" transmissions.



According to information I have on-hand for the 7730 ECM, I don't see how the it can control a 4T60-E. If ryan.hess has come up with a way for the 7730 ECM to control both a 4T60-E and the engine at the same time, then I would like to see how he has done it. What code mask is he using?

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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-01-2007 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Would the 7730 ECM work with the magnetic pickup VSS units in the FWD Getrag transmissions? Apparently, the FWD Getrags send their VSS signal to the ECM, instead of straight to the gauge.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-01-2007 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Would the 7730 ECM work with the magnetic pickup VSS units in the FWD Getrag transmissions? Apparently, the FWD Getrags send their VSS signal to the ECM, instead of straight to the gauge.


Yes. Originally the 7730 ECM was used in vehicles where the VSS signal went directly to the ECM first, then the ECM sent a 4000ppm signal out to the speedo and cruise control.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-01-2007 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks! So when I swap in the FWD Getrag, I might as well swap in the 7730 ECM as well. I think we'll be doing business soon.

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Report this Post09-02-2007 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks Darth! I guess I'll just have to ask him.

Would it be easier if I just got the entire harness and computer rom my donor of the complete 3400?
I am not really crazy about OBDII and would like to turbo this thing in the future, so to me the 7730 seems like it would be a better choice.

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Madess
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Report this Post09-14-2007 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

anyone selling their digital egr adapters?

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Mister
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Report this Post09-24-2007 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MisterSend a Private Message to MisterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Up...

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ohio86se
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Report this Post09-26-2007 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ohio86seClick Here to visit ohio86se's HomePageClick Here to Email ohio86seSend a Private Message to ohio86seEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I actually have a cad file I made detailing the adapter plate.
I will post later tonite

------------------



" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-26-2007 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:

Thanks Darth! I guess I'll just have to ask him.

Would it be easier if I just got the entire harness and computer rom my donor of the complete 3400?
I am not really crazy about OBDII and would like to turbo this thing in the future, so to me the 7730 seems like it would be a better choice.


Sorry, I missed this post...

You can use the OBD-2 computer if you want or you can use the 7730. The nice thing about the 7730 is we can use the Turbo Grand Prix code in it with the 3400 and it is already set up for boost. The OBD-2 PCM can be reprogrammed for boost but it will require more work (not only to reprogram, but to install into the car as well).


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rjblaze
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Report this Post09-26-2007 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rjblazeClick Here to Email rjblazeSend a Private Message to rjblazeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks again Darth!

That's kinda' what I thought. I am in the middle of purchasing a controller for a 4T65E that was originally made by Ryan Hess. It sounds kinda' cool with full manual shifting (I hope to use buttons on the steering wheel like my NOS button).

It really looks like I can have my cake AND eat it too!

YEEEEEEEEEHAWWWWWWWWWW!!!!

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Madess
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Report this Post09-27-2007 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ohio86se:

I actually have a cad file I made detailing the adapter plate.
I will post later tonite



that would be very helpful

I am not the most knowledgable person when it comes to machining, fabricating and tooling.

question - I am assuming I could take this to a machine shop and they could create it?

or Even better - could I create it myself, and if so what tools would I need? What type of metal should it be made out of?

thank you, Matt

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cropduster
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Report this Post09-29-2007 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cropdusterSend a Private Message to cropdusterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What other cars use the Fiero ECM??? I want to make an adapter harness but there are no Fiero's in the junkyards around here that I could find. Besides, I would kinda hate to butcher a good ECM in case someone might need one
This is my DD so I need to be able to do this in a day if possible and I've also got to weld in an EGR base....

------------------
Mick
1986 GT

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Hudini
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Report this Post09-29-2007 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I looked up a site that showed only the L44 Vin 9 had the 1227170 ECM. That is the '86-'88 V6 ECM used in Fiero's. The '85 ECM is unique to '85 (1226869) and the '84 was a Duke. I would bet money that you could find one with the same wiring connectors since you are only needing the female parts.

Or post a WTB in the Mall. Or get one from the Fiero Factory or Kick Hill. Both good junkyards.

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cropduster
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Report this Post09-29-2007 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cropdusterSend a Private Message to cropdusterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

I looked up a site that showed only the L44 Vin 9 had the 1227170 ECM. .


A reverse lookup??? Cool. What site is that??
BTW, thanks for the info, guess I'll have to kill a Fiero ECM

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Hudini
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Report this Post09-29-2007 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here is where I find ECM info:
Fiero specific: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/fieroprom.html
Older ECM's: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/c3xref.html
Newer ECM's: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html
ECM pinouts: http://home.att.net/~subzero350/

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cropduster
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Report this Post09-29-2007 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cropdusterSend a Private Message to cropdusterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That's some good info! Thanks.
I was kinda hoping you had found a site where you could put in a part # and find what vehicle it goes in. It would really help for upgrades when trudging through the yards...

------------------
Mick
1986 GT

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Hudini
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Report this Post09-29-2007 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Let see, maybe go to the site with the ECM pinouts and find one with the same 2 connectors the Fiero uses. Then go to Advance Auto's parts site (http://www.partsamerica.com) and look up that car. Then look under the option "See all vehicles this product fits".

You could also get a list of likely cars at the junkyard (would cost you 2 trips). Then do the lookup.

Or just hack up a toasted Fiero ECM......lol

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-29-2007 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cropduster:

What other cars use the Fiero ECM??? I want to make an adapter harness but there are no Fiero's in the junkyards around here that I could find. Besides, I would kinda hate to butcher a good ECM in case someone might need one
This is my DD so I need to be able to do this in a day if possible and I've also got to weld in an EGR base....




No other GM cars used the Fiero 2.8 ECMs. BUT, the Fiero 2.8 ECMs used the same connectors (ECM side) that most other GM ECMs of that era used; for example the TBI truck and van computers -- 1227747. Which is VERY common. So if you want to go grab one of those other ECMs from a junkyard, cut the connectors off the ECM board and solder wires to it, you can -- without butchering a good Fiero 2.8 ECM.

-ryan

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cropduster
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Report this Post09-29-2007 01:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cropdusterSend a Private Message to cropdusterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Cool that's what I wanted to hear. I'd rather something else fall under the butcher's knife than a Fiero.

------------------
Mick
1986 GT

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