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ECM upgrade (1227730) for stock 2.8 by Darth Fiero
Started on: 01-09-2007 02:26 PM
Replies: 1066 (85699 views)
Last post by: turbo86se on 12-18-2017 10:19 AM
3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post09-24-2008 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ok so i was goofing around on the internet and i found this site called http://www.code59.org/ its a tunning site for the GMC syclone and $58 code running vehicals.
hey darth the 59code is a modified $58 code that makes it easyer to tune i was wondering if this would be better for my 3.4l turbo? check it out.

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post09-24-2008 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

oh wow, and maybe that could help tune my engine too! god that would be so sweet.

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 09-24-2008).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-24-2008 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

ok so i was goofing around on the internet and i found this site called http://www.code59.org/ its a tunning site for the GMC syclone and $58 code running vehicals.
hey darth the 59code is a modified $58 code that makes it easyer to tune i was wondering if this would be better for my 3.4l turbo? check it out.



I just recently discovered the existance of the code59 programming and have been doing some research on it. On the surface it looks like somebody took the $58 code mask (GMC Syclone/Typhoon) programming and converted it to work with a 3-bar map sensor so they could run more boost. They also set it up to work directly with a wideband O2 sensor (if needed) as well as disabled a lot of the factory tables in the $58 programming (which they say can be re-activated if you wish).

Basically to get down to the brass tacks here, the code59 programming would be a good choice for anyone doing one or more of the following:

-Needs to run more boost than 15psi and wants to have the ability to change fuel/spark above 15psi (although you could safely run 20psi of boost with a 2-bar program if you tuned it right)
-Wants to have the ability to hook the WideBand O2 sensor directly up to the ECM.
-Wants to do their OWN tuning.

I have not worked with the code59 programming on any vehicle I've had here at the shop yet. So I am reluctant to do ANY mail order tunes for anyone running this code just because there is bound to be quite a bit of tuning work involved in just getting it running right (or at least good enough to drive). Therefore if you want to run the code59 programming you will either need to bring me your car so I can tune it in person or you will need to get all the hardware/software so you can do the tuning yourself.

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post09-24-2008 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hmm, so looks like its a no go for me. oh well, no loss.

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post09-24-2008 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

ok so i was goofing around on the internet and i found this site called http://www.code59.org/ its a tunning site for the GMC syclone and $58 code running vehicals.
hey darth the 59code is a modified $58 code that makes it easyer to tune i was wondering if this would be better for my 3.4l turbo? check it out.



I've mentioned this code a few times previously, the 58 code for a 3 bar MAP sensor has been around for a number of years now. It has been modified further to run DIS ignition systems and work in the Tunerpro software, it also appears to be a more cooperative code than the Turbo Grand Prix 8F code, having several examples from members using it posted for download with various different injector sizes.

Unless someone has modified it further, the TGP 8F code will not allow you to reach 15 psi before it kills the engine and depending on what software you use you may not see much more than 10 psi. More importantly to be most effective you must be able to adjust timing for the full range of boost you intend to run. This is why I plan to switch from 8F to Code59 along with the intent to run more than 15 psi. The individuals using it have had great success with it and have posted their tunes for downloading.

The ability to use wide band O2 sensors is a plus and there are other functions such as water/meth injection control currently attempting to be worked into the code as well.

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87_special
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Report this Post09-24-2008 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87_specialSend a Private Message to 87_specialEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My question seems to have been overlooked since it was on the bottom of page 19. So I will ask agian.

 
quote
Originally posted by 87_special:

Hey Darth,

I recently did the 7730 ecm swap with my 3100/4t60E (manually shifted) swap. I spliced in the correct connector and changed the vss road speed constant in the chip(24000ppm) so the ecm reads the correct speed. My problem is that the speedometer is way off. At about 20mph the speedo is pegged. Do you have any idea to fix this problem so my speedo works accuately?

Do I need this "Speedometer signal convertor" from FieroAddiction? http://www.fieroaddiction.c...ath=2&products_id=12

Thanks,
Joseph


------------------

1987 Fiero SE/Fastback - 3100HO (Ported LIM, Ported Heads, Competion Valve Job, LS6 Springs, 3500 UIM, LX5 65mm TB) / 4t60e full manual / ZZP shift kit / 7730 ecm Emulated w/Ostrich - Soon to be bottle fed!

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-24-2008 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 87_special:

My question seems to have been overlooked since it was on the bottom of page 19. So I will ask agian.

I recently did the 7730 ecm swap with my 3100/4t60E (manually shifted) swap. I spliced in the correct connector and changed the vss road speed constant in the chip(24000ppm) so the ecm reads the correct speed. My problem is that the speedometer is way off. At about 20mph the speedo is pegged. Do you have any idea to fix this problem so my speedo works accuately?



Sorry, I must have missed this. What you need to do is make sure the Instrument Panel VSS Divisor constant is set to "128".

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post09-25-2008 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

here is a very interesting find that i came across in search for some engine bay wire.

http://www.americanhotrodso...ecm_harness_page.htm

2nd row down, on the right. pretty obvious....

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87_special
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Report this Post09-26-2008 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87_specialSend a Private Message to 87_specialEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


Sorry, I must have missed this. What you need to do is make sure the Instrument Panel VSS Divisor constant is set to "128".


I tried that already. That was the way I originally had it set up. I actually tried many different #s. It didnt make any difference if I put 0 or 9000. I don't know what to do. Do you think I need that "speedo convertor" from FieroAddiction?

-Joseph

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-27-2008 12:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 87_special:


I tried that already. That was the way I originally had it set up. I actually tried many different #s. It didnt make any difference if I put 0 or 9000. I don't know what to do. Do you think I need that "speedo convertor" from FieroAddiction?

-Joseph


Ok well if you are running the Fiero speedo off the ECM then yes you need the Fiero speedo conversion circuit shown here: http://dtcc.cz28.com/fiero/fmods.htm

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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post09-30-2008 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

e-mail sent

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post10-06-2008 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

if anyone is wanting to take their time on their harness for a motorswap, such as mine, and want to properly remove the pins from your weather pack connetors to untangle all the wires and run them to the proper lengths, then search ebay for "weather pack tool" minus the quotes. i just purchased a pin removal tool for 4 bux, 1.50 S & H. there are also new pin terminal kits on there. has everything you need to replace that you damaged in your attempts to remove the pins. including a crimper. there are also a few websites that contain this stuff at a slightly higher price. just google "gm weather pack pin removal tool" minus the quotes. or modify that search using different terms to end up with some other results.

here is my ebay search
http://shop.ebay.com/items/...moval+tool&_osacat=0

and here is my google search
http://www.google.com/searc...val+tool&btnG=Search

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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Report this Post10-08-2008 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hey darth ive decided to have the fiero dyno-tuned. and i just want to let every one on here know, that if they have a 3.4l PR and want to turbocharge it then i might have a sulution for qwick, painless, inexspencive turbo tunning.
and it could throw some more work to you as well darth. you might even want to get in on the deal


here is the link please read the hole thread.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/095416.html#p16

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post10-08-2008 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

having problem with the injectors
only the front 3 are working.
where does the single green wire from the ecu split into 2 for bolth sides does any one know?
if you have the wireing harnes off of a car or your car, could you messure from the connector (on the injector side) to the factory slpice? so i dont have to rip out my compleate harness please.
also could you messure for bolth factory splices? i should check the negitive to

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post10-09-2008 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

once i get home, i can let you know that. i have my entire harness separated by sensor depending on which side of the engine. no loom or anything on it right now. i dont recall any sort of splice that it runs into. i believe that it is all seperate. check for a break in the wiring.

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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Report this Post10-09-2008 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

having problem with the injectors
only the front 3 are working.
where does the single green wire from the ecu split into 2 for bolth sides does any one know?
if you have the wireing harnes off of a car or your car, could you messure from the connector (on the injector side) to the factory slpice? so i dont have to rip out my compleate harness please.
also could you messure for bolth factory splices? i should check the negitive to



if I remember right, it was about 18" from the ECM connector on mine. and, not only that - they spliced it backwards. on the green line, they spliced in a blue wire,. and on the blue line, they spliced in a green wire.

I did in fact rip out the entire harness - and unravel the whole thing. but, I was also doing wiring fixes for my auto to manual swap I did many years ago, and removing all the wiring for the A/C, and added DIS.

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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post10-09-2008 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

cool thanks guys

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Madess
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Report this Post10-09-2008 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ok, everything is working on my 7730, but I am getting a code 32, which I looked up, and it is the digital egr, does this mean my egr is bad, or the wiring I hooked up is having a problem?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-09-2008 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Madess:

ok, everything is working on my 7730, but I am getting a code 32, which I looked up, and it is the digital egr, does this mean my egr is bad, or the wiring I hooked up is having a problem?


Could be either a wiring problem or something wrong with your EGR valve. Best thing to do is check the connections between the EGR valve and the ECM. Also make sure the EGR valve connector is getting power to it at the correct terminal with the key on. This code could also be caused if you have another problem with the engine such as a vacuum leak.

Let us know what you find.

-ryan

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Madess
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Report this Post10-10-2008 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It only comes on occasionally.

Like the whole ride to work today it was fine...

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it was a wiring issue, it would be on all the time?

So I am thinking the egr valve itself is a problem, or a vacuum leak is definitely a possibility, I need to clean things up in the engine compartment.

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Report this Post10-10-2008 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Madess:

It only comes on occasionally.

Like the whole ride to work today it was fine...

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it was a wiring issue, it would be on all the time?

So I am thinking the egr valve itself is a problem, or a vacuum leak is definitely a possibility, I need to clean things up in the engine compartment.


The EGR diagnostic does not run continuously. Sometimes it will only run when you are decellerating from a highway speed. So even if you had an electrical problem the light may not come on a stay on all the time.

-ryan

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Report this Post10-17-2008 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadessClick Here to Email MadessSend a Private Message to MadessEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


The EGR diagnostic does not run continuously. Sometimes it will only run when you are decellerating from a highway speed. So even if you had an electrical problem the light may not come on a stay on all the time.

-ryan


Ah, it does happen when decelarating or driving slow, so I will check the egr and vacuum leaks.

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Report this Post10-19-2008 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

how many connections go to the power distribution block right under the C500? how many are on the 11mm nut one and how many are on the 10mm nut one? how many seperate grounds are there total on all of this after the conversion? any way to tell if the ecm is working? i think i may have fried mine, how? i have no idea, if its getting power and ground.

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 10-19-2008).]

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Report this Post10-22-2008 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ok, so on the secondary harness connections, pin GF14, gry/red, is A/C pressure sensor signal, connect to A/C pressure sensor terminal C

what is terminal C? on what pressure sensor?

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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Report this Post10-23-2008 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PrimarisClick Here to visit Primaris's HomePageSend a Private Message to PrimarisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

TLDR

Why go with a GM ECU over say a MegaSquirt 2?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-23-2008 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by americasfuture2k:

how many connections go to the power distribution block right under the C500? how many are on the 11mm nut one and how many are on the 10mm nut one? how many seperate grounds are there total on all of this after the conversion? any way to tell if the ecm is working? i think i may have fried mine, how? i have no idea, if its getting power and ground.


The smaller stud has the 2 fusable links connected to it that power up the entire car (except the ECM). The larger stud has the alternator charge wire, battery connection, and ECM power wire connected to it. Both studs are connected together by a shunt (that is actually part of the ring terminal for the charge/ECM wires).

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-23-2008 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by americasfuture2k:

ok, so on the secondary harness connections, pin GF14, gry/red, is A/C pressure sensor signal, connect to A/C pressure sensor terminal C

what is terminal C? on what pressure sensor?



Ok, for cars running a distributor and using the $88 F-body V6 mask, the only A/C related pressure monitoring device is a high side pressure switch that is normally closed (opens with high pressure) and connects to terminal BD12. You can simply ground the wire going to ECM terminal BD12 if you already have some other means of compressor protection wired up (stock Fiero A/C system should already have this).

For DIS cars, there is an A/C pressure sensor used. This sensor mounts on the high-side A/C line and reports actual pressure readings back to the ECM. The sensor has 3 terminals, A = Sensor Ground Input (BB5), B = Sensor Signal Output (GF14), C = 5v Reference Input (BA4). If you are using a programming code mask that requires a 3-wire A/C pressure sensor and you don't hook one up to the ECM, then the ECM will never be able to control the A/C clutch relay. This means the ECM won't know when your A/C is turning on (even if you feed it an A/C request signal) and this could cause stalling and idle problems.
(revised 8-14-2014 to correct some information)

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-14-2014).]

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Report this Post10-23-2008 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hmm, so to complicate things, wonder if that will be needed fo my ac compressor?

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-23-2008 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by americasfuture2k:

hmm, so to complicate things, wonder if that will be needed fo my ac compressor?



no, you won't need it as long as your fan still turns on when you select A/C on the HVAC control panel.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 10-23-2008).]

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post10-23-2008 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

rock on, thanks for the info. clears that up.

------------------
1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp at the motor

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fieroluke
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Report this Post10-27-2008 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hi everyone.

I have another question regarding the EVAP solenoid/charcoal canister.

If I understand it correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) there are three lines going to the stock Fiero evap canister.

#1) is the vapor line from the tank - this one stays as it is in the conversion, so I'll mention this one no more
#2) is the larger diameter vacuum line: this is where the engine purges/sucks the fuel vapors from the canister
#3) is the smaller diameter vacuum line: this one controls the valve in the canister and opens when vacuum is applied.

Now, in an early posting on this topic Darth Fiero wrote that an electrical (ECM controlled) solenoid is added in the
vacuum line. I assume this is the larger diameter purge line (#2).

But what about the smaller diameter control line (#3)? If it's left open or capped, doesn't the vacuum controlled valve on the canister
stay closed then? In effect, it wouldn't matter if the solenoid opens, the valve on top of the can stays closed anyway.
Or does the control line (#3) stay connected? In that case I gain ECM control of the canister, but keep both vacuum lines,
one of which I'd love to lose. Or am I mistaken regarding the operation of the system?

Best regards

Oliver

[This message has been edited by fieroluke (edited 10-27-2008).]

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-27-2008 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroluke:

Hi everyone.

I have another question regarding the EVAP solenoid/charcoal canister.

If I understand it correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) there are three lines going to the stock Fiero evap canister.

#1) is the vapor line from the tank - this one stays as it is in the conversion, so I'll mention this one no more
#2) is the larger diameter vacuum line: this is where the engine purges/sucks the fuel vapors from the canister
#3) is the smaller diameter vacuum line: this one controls the valve in the canister and opens when vacuum is applied.

Now, in an early posting on this topic Darth Fiero wrote that an electrical (ECM controlled) solenoid is added in the
vacuum line. I assume this is the larger diameter purge line (#2).

But what about the smaller diameter control line (#3)? If it's left open or capped, doesn't the vacuum controlled valve on the canister
stay closed then? In effect, it wouldn't matter if the solenoid opens, the valve on top of the can stays closed anyway.
Or does the control line (#3) stay connected? In that case I gain ECM control of the canister, but keep both vacuum lines,
one of which I'd love to lose. Or am I mistaken regarding the operation of the system?

Best regards

Oliver



The small vacuum line that goes to the Fiero EVAP canister is connected to a ported vacuum source on the throttle body. This line only sees vacuum at part throttle; therefore the EVAP purge valve on the canister will only open and allow purge flow at part throttle. This is how GM controlled the flow of EVAP vapors from the canister to the engine without a computer-controlled solenoid.

In later years GM added the EVAP purge solenoid because they found they could purge the charcoal canister a little during idle and decelleration operation (the EVAP purge solenoid is under pulse-width-modulated control meaning it can be opened by small to large amounts depending on what the ECM wants; does not have to be full open or closed). Therefore better control could be attained over the EVAP system via use of an electronic purge solenoid.

When doing the 7730 conversion, I recommend disconnecting the small vacuum line from the ported vac port on the throttle body and plugging the port on the throttle body. Next, connect the small vacuum line coming from the EVAP canister together with the larger purge line going to the engine via a vacuum Tee. Now connect the remaining port on this Tee to the "can" port of the EVAP purge solenoid. The other port of the solenoid gets connected to the larger vacuum line coming from the engine that originally connected to the EVAP canister. The reason why I recommend hooking it up this way is because the ECM is going to expect some EVAP flow (when it commands the purge solenoid open) during times when that legacy mechanical ported vacuum control system would normally be closed. It's just best to let the ECM control it as intended.

IF you have already wired up your 7730 ECM swap without using the EVAP purge solenoid, don't worry. The EVAP purge strategy has very little to do (and little impact) with overall engine operation. And for the record, I do recommend leaving a functioning EVAP system on the car when doing an ECM or engine swap. This prevents the buildup of fuel vapors in the gas tank which otherwise could result in a raw gas smell coming from the car on hot days or after extended engine operation. Under no circumstances should you ever plug the vent line coming from the gas tank as this could result in a potentially dangerous pressure buildup in the tank as the fuel is heated (either during engine operation or on hot days).

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fieroluke
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Report this Post10-28-2008 03:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Aaah, that makes perfect sense now. Thanks for the explanation!

Best regards,

Oliver

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Report this Post11-01-2008 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierolukeClick Here to visit fieroluke's HomePageClick Here to Email fierolukeSend a Private Message to fierolukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

For those who are having trouble removing the pins from the ECM connector, here is a link to a page detailing the procedure (scroll to the bottom of the page):

http://www.chevythunder.com...%20ecm%20pinouts.htm

It has pictures of what the pins look like and what's happening inside the connector i.e. where you have to insert the tool and what it does.
It also shows the lisle tool that can be used instead of a hairpin.

Hope someone finds this useful.

Oh, and *bump*.

Regards,

Oliver

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post11-01-2008 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

sweet, nice find luke. i had my doubts about that tool. thinking it was some sorta scam tool. but it looks real anad useful, so i may just need to get one. that lil weatherpack terminal removal tool is very delicate. i bent mine the first day. had just barely enough left to still use it.

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post11-08-2008 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

alright, got a new one for you ryan!

i built another 7730 harness, made it much cleaner and more organized than merlot's. all the pins and wires are in good condition and in the right spot. but my fuel pump will not come on without forcing it on through the ALDL. i plugged the APU1 in to see what the ecm is seeing. everything looks fine except that the log is showing no voltage at the fuel pump. what could be causing this to not spit out the 5 or 12 volts , whichever is needed? bad ECM possibly?

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem

Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones

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Hudini
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Report this Post11-08-2008 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Make sure the C203 is connected. This is the connector under the ECM. The fuel pump wires run through there.

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post11-08-2008 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

that is connected. but i dont see how that would explain the ECM not sending out the voltage. that datalog shoes 0.00v on the fuelpump.

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem

Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 11-08-2008).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post11-08-2008 08:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The ECM would be getting voltage, not sending it. Power to the fuel pump comes from the fuse panel. (Check your fuses?) I would check if the ECM is seeing voltage when you put 12v to the aldl plug. This may be hard if you are datalogging through the aldl plug. May have to stick the 12v wire into the backside of the aldl connector.

BTW: I just ordered the APU1. Should be here on Monday. This is gonna be fun.

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americasfuture2k
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Report this Post11-08-2008 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for americasfuture2kSend a Private Message to americasfuture2kEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

The ECM would be getting voltage, not sending it. Power to the fuel pump comes from the fuse panel. (Check your fuses?) I would check if the ECM is seeing voltage when you put 12v to the aldl plug. This may be hard if you are datalogging through the aldl plug. May have to stick the 12v wire into the backside of the aldl connector.

BTW: I just ordered the APU1. Should be here on Monday. This is gonna be fun.


i just swapped ECM's and still the same thing.
my fuses are good. ive tested the fuel pump relay turn on wire from the ECM and it reads nothing. its that grn/wht wire coming from the ECM to the FP relay.
the datalog doesnt show anything when 12v is applied to pin G on the ALDL. or....wait, come to think of it, i didnt apply any voltage to the aldl since i was logging through the aldl. tomarrow in the daylight i will try this and see what comes of it.

but one question, how would a good/bad fuse, or power applied to the FP itself by bypassing the relay effect what is shown on the datalog for the power on the FP? and why am i not getting any power on the grn/wht wire that goes to the FP relay coil? i know in order for a coil to energize, it needs power(+) and ground (-). my ground is good.

that APU1 is a pretty amazing and useful tool. emulates, logs, live tunes, burns and reads.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

------------------
First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987

If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem

Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 11-08-2008).]

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