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The Turbo Super Duty Build. by FastIndyFiero
Started on: 09-27-2004 06:50 PM
Replies: 615 (80548 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 07-10-2017 10:57 PM
RWDPLZ
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Report this Post02-16-2007 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ooh purdy

I own page 8!

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 02-16-2007).]

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frankenfiero1
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Report this Post02-16-2007 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for frankenfiero1Click Here to Email frankenfiero1Send a Private Message to frankenfiero1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks man for the pics of the W/P, but my S-10 motor does not have the side port or bosses for it. I am looking into a right hand outlet for the S-10 motor now. I have my best people working on it! I'm so glad you haven't given up on your build though, I have learned alot, and I am an avid "4-cyl" man. I can't wait till yours is finished!

------------------
carpe diem

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post03-04-2007 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Progress? Of course!





Here's a couple of pics showing a mockup. The nitrous distribution block will go basically in the same position, just a little closer to the head and slightly higher. Should look pretty cool when done. I just need to get some tube sleeves and fittings, then I'll start plumbing. Already have stainless tubing and everything else...Figures a couple of tube sleeves would hold up the operation.

Nate

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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post03-05-2007 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

all i can say

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post03-11-2007 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Summit Racing FTMFW. Ordered the B nuts and sleeves on Thursday, got here two days later, this morning. IOW, I've been busy

So...






Half done.

More later, as always,
Nate

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Report this Post03-11-2007 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nate, when are we gonna finish this bud? It's been uber years.

Rock on dude, looks good!

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post03-11-2007 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:

Nate, when are we gonna finish this bud? It's been uber years.

Rock on dude, looks good!


Uber years? LOL






Nitrous?
DONE.
(For now)

Nate

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post03-20-2007 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Updates...

Designed a header flange, that was easy enough. I have several designs for short-tube equal length headers, but until I get my cradle and engine compartment modeled I'm not sure what will work. Might be able to do some of that this week, during spring break.

Another thing I've been looking at is a change of engine control. I like MS2, but my plans are starting to overtap it's capabilites, and even some of the capabilities that aren't even in the development plan for MS2. Over the last 2 years I've accumulated so many add-ons it's getting hard to keep track of...Seperate WBO2 controller, boost controller, while planning to EXTENSIVELY modify the MS2 to get what I need. Not to mention that reliability is lacking, partly due to the home assembled nature (me), and partly due to the somewhat experimental nature of these devices (cheap).

So I've been looking for something more capable and professional. This has brought me to the Big Stuff 3 controller. While this is MUCH more expensive, it will greatly simplify my life. This means eliminating the distributor, and running coil on plug, and sequential injection with individual cylinder control, with built-in boost control. So, this means installation of cam and crank position sensors, as well as installing a cam trigger magnet on the timing gear, and a 24 tooth trigger wheel on the crank. Add 4 LS1 coils and I'll be good to go.

Downside (because there always is one)....
Cost: About $2700 for everything. This would include wiring, coils, the works. But still. Ouch. So, right now I'm split on whether to start designing for the BS3 or keep going ahead as planned. Could end up saving me alot of time, but almost $3000 is still a lot of cash out of pocket.

Need a better paying job.
Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-20-2007).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post03-20-2007 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

megasquirt or another "cheapie" ECU would do the DIS ignition that you want.

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post03-22-2007 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

megasquirt or another "cheapie" ECU would do the DIS ignition that you want.


Megasquirt can do DIS, but COP is MUCH more difficult. Right now it's pretty much limited to wasted spark COP, which still requires alot of modifications to set up. Even after that, you don't get individual cylinder timing control.

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davidmgbv8
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Report this Post04-30-2007 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for davidmgbv8Send a Private Message to davidmgbv8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I went to the dirt track this weekend and teenagers were driving sprint cars with Iron and Aluminum headed Super Duty engines. Naturally aspirated with mechanical fuel injection putting out 400 horse at the flywheel on the dyno. Pretty impressive stuff. Your project should really move. Can't wait till you fire it up.
David

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Flyguyeddy
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Report this Post04-30-2007 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddyClick Here to Email FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

you can run coil on plug ignition with megasquirt. you just have to source suitable coils.

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Chris Hodson
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Report this Post05-01-2007 07:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

this is so effin cool. you rock dude.

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-01-2007 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Flyguyeddy:

you can run coil on plug ignition with megasquirt. you just have to source suitable coils.


See my post above.

 
quote
Originally posted by Chris Hodson:

this is so effin cool. you rock dude.


Thanks!

I thought I'd let everyone know my exhaust flanges are designed. This should be final version, I've been looking around at who can machine these from 321 stainless.



One picture of a thermal load being applied:


Soo...there's some major progress being made!

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

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Nashco
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Report this Post05-02-2007 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NashcoClick Here to visit Nashco's HomePageClick Here to Email NashcoSend a Private Message to NashcoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Megasquirt can do DIS, but COP is MUCH more difficult. Right now it's pretty much limited to wasted spark COP, which still requires alot of modifications to set up. Even after that, you don't get individual cylinder timing control.


Cool project, I've been keeping my eye on it. Just curious, what's wrong with wasted spark? Also, what do you expect to gain from individual cylinder timing control? It seems that adding a timing wheel and going wasted spark with megasquirt would be well worth the $$$$ saved. For what it's worth (depending on your timing), when the router board is officially released later this year there should be all the hardware needed for COP without wasted spark, although I don't think anybody has talked about individual cylinder timing just yet. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "alot of modifications" but I'm fairly confident that the Microsquirt can currently operate 4 cylinder COP in wasted spark with only a toothed wheel on the crank, which is pretty straight forward and cheap.

Just trying to help out, I would hate to see you spend a ton of money on option B without knowing the above. If you know all the above and still want to drop a few grand, to each his own of course.

Bryce

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-02-2007 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:


Cool project, I've been keeping my eye on it. Just curious, what's wrong with wasted spark? Also, what do you expect to gain from individual cylinder timing control? It seems that adding a timing wheel and going wasted spark with megasquirt would be well worth the $$$$ saved. For what it's worth (depending on your timing), when the router board is officially released later this year there should be all the hardware needed for COP without wasted spark, although I don't think anybody has talked about individual cylinder timing just yet. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "alot of modifications" but I'm fairly confident that the Microsquirt can currently operate 4 cylinder COP in wasted spark with only a toothed wheel on the crank, which is pretty straight forward and cheap.

Just trying to help out, I would hate to see you spend a ton of money on option B without knowing the above. If you know all the above and still want to drop a few grand, to each his own of course.

Bryce


I don't regard individual spark timing control as being that important. What I like is the individual cylinder fuel timing and trim control that goes with it. If I were slapping this engine together in a month or two, I wouldn't worry about trying to screw around tuning individual cylinders. But I figure that since I've spent 3 years on this already, another month spent getting it running JUST right isn't going to kill me. I'm not going to worry about it right now, so I'll see where megasquirt is in 6 months - year and go from there. If it's up to snuff then, I have absolutely NO problem spending less money. But if the quality isn't there, or the performance, then I'm not going to let it come near my baby.

Thanks for your opinion though!

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-07-2007 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post05-07-2007 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whadeduckClick Here to Email whadeduckSend a Private Message to whadeduckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

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Ruh-roh Raggy.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy

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Report this Post05-07-2007 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

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That's not good...

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-12-2007 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Still haven't heard back from SPD Exhaust, who I called to have the exhaust flange laser cut. I'm not sure what the deal is with that gasket, I've been contemplating O-ringing the ports and making my own gasket.

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Report this Post05-12-2007 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterClick Here to Email ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

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I see custom made gaskets in your future!

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-12-2007 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Let me get this right. A SD four with a turbo and nitrous. That's one bad combination. I hope that you are just using the nitrous off the line until the turbo spools up. I believe that it will be very difficult to tune for boost and N20 working for the whole 1/4 mile.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

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p8ntman442
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quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

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Machine the head and the intake flat, and then use anerobic sealer. Expensive the first time, but after each R&R and not having to buy more custom gaskets, you will make out in the end.


Unless your head ports match the gasket, if thats the case your ****ed.

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-13-2007 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Let me get this right. A SD four with a turbo and nitrous. That's one bad combination. I hope that you are just using the nitrous off the line until the turbo spools up. I believe that it will be very difficult to tune for boost and N20 working for the whole 1/4 mile.



I'm going to tune with the turbo first, then start working up from smaller nitrous shots. I don't think it will be a problem.

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Report this Post05-13-2007 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xlr2004Click Here to Email xlr2004Send a Private Message to xlr2004Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I've been monitoring this for quite some time, as I've got a couple SD-4 projects (have been on-going for....let's say MUCH longer than you have..but have never got things running quite right due to misc. issues (i.e. my mistakes). Appreciate you sharing all the info, and may be able to give you a lead on your gasket issue. I've got an aluminum SD-4 head with the Holley TBI intake (made for the aluminum high port head, not stock head). The gasket they include looks like it fit's your head (bolt holes around the center coolant port are very close to the #2, #3 intake runners. Looks like this is what you need. I had purchased a replacement gasket (10+ years ago) since mine cracked. I ordered p/n 301-127 from Holley (has 1238 pressed on gasket), can't tell from your picture if it says 1238-1, or 1258-1. Don't know if they still sell it, but may be worth a try. I can send a pic if you want.

------------------
'84 Red SE 4-spd, 2.7 TBI SD4 (x-cept block)
'84 Indy project, soon to have full SD4
'84 SE, auto, parts bucket

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-19-2007 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by xlr2004:

I've been monitoring this for quite some time, as I've got a couple SD-4 projects (have been on-going for....let's say MUCH longer than you have..but have never got things running quite right due to misc. issues (i.e. my mistakes). Appreciate you sharing all the info, and may be able to give you a lead on your gasket issue. I've got an aluminum SD-4 head with the Holley TBI intake (made for the aluminum high port head, not stock head). The gasket they include looks like it fit's your head (bolt holes around the center coolant port are very close to the #2, #3 intake runners. Looks like this is what you need. I had purchased a replacement gasket (10+ years ago) since mine cracked. I ordered p/n 301-127 from Holley (has 1238 pressed on gasket), can't tell from your picture if it says 1238-1, or 1258-1. Don't know if they still sell it, but may be worth a try. I can send a pic if you want.



Mine says 1238-1. It's a Felpro gasket PN 1441. I looked up the Holley gasket on Summit Racing, and it wasn't listed. I'll try Holley's website next.

I'm also still working on getting someone to make those flanges. SPD Exhaust never got back to me after they had me send in my model for a quote, but I may have found a place that will do it cheaper anyway.

Nate "obviously still learning" Engel

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p8ntman442
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have you tried www.emachineshop.com I have not heard good or bad abou them, just remember the name.

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Report this Post05-25-2007 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xlr2004Click Here to Email xlr2004Send a Private Message to xlr2004Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry if this is a repeat......not sure what happened the first time I typed this ???

I have another p/n written down for a Fel-Pro gasket through Jeg's....may be the same as what you have. It's p/n 375-1238-1 (may just be the Jeg's p/n for the gasket)????

Also, here's some alternate p/n's from a Pontiac Motorsports Super Duty Parts (4, 6 & 8 Cyl) list I have:
p/n F0 5892-1 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10049801 (S.D. Aluminum, Equal Port Intake)
p/n F0 5892 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10045437 (S.D. Aluminum, Std Port Intake).....what I have

If there's some interest here for the S.D parts list, I can probably scan them into .pdf & post (if it's possible). It's pretty old at this point in time, but has lots of GM & non-GM p/n's (& Vendor's) for all 4, 6 & 8-cyl Pontiac S.D Parts.

Mark

------------------
'84 Red SE 4-spd, 2.7 TBI SD4 (x-cept block)
'84 Indy project, soon to have full SD4
'84 SE, auto, parts bucket

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-26-2007 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by xlr2004:

Sorry if this is a repeat......not sure what happened the first time I typed this ???

I have another p/n written down for a Fel-Pro gasket through Jeg's....may be the same as what you have. It's p/n 375-1238-1 (may just be the Jeg's p/n for the gasket)????

Also, here's some alternate p/n's from a Pontiac Motorsports Super Duty Parts (4, 6 & 8 Cyl) list I have:
p/n F0 5892-1 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10049801 (S.D. Aluminum, Equal Port Intake)
p/n F0 5892 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10045437 (S.D. Aluminum, Std Port Intake).....what I have

If there's some interest here for the S.D parts list, I can probably scan them into .pdf & post (if it's possible). It's pretty old at this point in time, but has lots of GM & non-GM p/n's (& Vendor's) for all 4, 6 & 8-cyl Pontiac S.D Parts.

Mark



I'm sure plenty of people here are interested if you could put it in a .pdf or even just jpegs. On that subject, what's a good free file hosting site?

I have some scans I'm going to post up tonight, good info.

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-27-2007 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here's scans of the original build sheet, hand dated 8/18/83 that sat in my SD Build kit box (10031328) for more than twenty years before I bought it. The original is in very bad condition, with lots of tears, it's almost ripped in half. I'm amazed the scans came out this well!


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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-27-2007 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

AND, I actually did something yesterday. I started mocking everything up...

I used the old head gasket:


Then started oiling, cleaning, and installing the head studs:



After that I set the head on:

You can also see in this picture that the middle head stud is missing. This is because the header bolt thread insert extends into the hole for the stud, and must be trimmed (carefully).
I've already found another problem. The exhaust flange that I designed above, is going to interfere. I should've trusted my CAD model:


The exposed intake side:

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post05-27-2007 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I then fitted the intake:




I couldn't help myself from putting the VC on too:



I wasn't too surprised about this:



I have a cheap Moroso SBC crank trigger wheel on the way that I'm going to play with.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

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slinger
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Report this Post05-27-2007 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for slingerSend a Private Message to slingerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i love how you work on the motor in your house on your table i was cleanin my sbc intake in the bath tub and my mom yelled at me to get my tranny out of the house

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Fierofreak00
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Report this Post05-27-2007 10:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fierofreak00Click Here to Email Fierofreak00Send a Private Message to Fierofreak00Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem will this help?-Jason

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Emc209i
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Report this Post05-28-2007 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Emc209iClick Here to Email Emc209iSend a Private Message to Emc209iEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by slinger:

i love how you work on the motor in your house on your table i was cleanin my sbc intake in the bath tub and my mom yelled at me to get my tranny out of the house


You need to learn to be sneakier

Awesome work man! That thing is crazy!

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xlr2004
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Report this Post05-29-2007 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for xlr2004Click Here to Email xlr2004Send a Private Message to xlr2004Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have the Pontiac Motorsports SuperDuty Parts List scanned into an Adobe .PDF file, but don't think I can post it here.
Includes.......4 Cyl, V6, V8_SB, V8_BB, Vendors

Don't have time right now to convert pages to individual images of proper size to post. Probably gonna regret this later, but for now, if anyone wants it, send me a P.M. with your e-mail address. I'd be interested in knowing a good file posting site as well.

Mark

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1984fiero
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Report this Post05-29-2007 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984fieroSend a Private Message to 1984fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

that is awesome where did you get that edelbrock intake and that valve cover

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fierosound
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Report this Post05-31-2007 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 1984fiero:

that is awesome where did you get that edelbrock intake and that valve cover


Although they are Edelbrock, you can only get them through GM.
I see they have them here: http://www.gmpartsdirect.com

Edelbrock/GM 4-bbl manifold - GM PN 10038470
Edelbrock/GM SD4 PONTIAC valve cover - GM PN 10031327

------------------

3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

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xlr2004
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Report this Post05-31-2007 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xlr2004Click Here to Email xlr2004Send a Private Message to xlr2004Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

They also carry the gasket for the Intake....p/n 12371032.

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KurtAKX
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Report this Post05-31-2007 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

NBD on the flange interference thing with the block. 10 minutes with an angle grinder to the offending parts of the flanges will fix the problem right up.

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