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My 1988 LFX F40 build. by Daryl M
Started on: 01-02-2019 10:42 PM
Replies: 220 (4234 views)
Last post by: Daryl M on 11-14-2019 06:46 PM
Daryl M
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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-12-2019 02:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post





The two oil pressure senders did fit.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post02-12-2019 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:





The two oil pressure senders did fit.

I did the same exact thing for my LX5 conversion. But the LS4 did not need an extra sensor, I used the donor car gauges. They run on a different type of system that allows me to run axillary gauges without any extra sensors. Yours runs the same way, but if you don't use the donor gauges and BCM it won't work.
Doing swaps is a game of picking and choosing your battles.

Thanks for the many pictures, I love those. I would have loved to have done this swap.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-15-2019 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post





Here's how the test fit of the shift cables looks.

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Will
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Report this Post02-15-2019 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:






Can you plug the connector into the vertical sensor as it sits or will you have to remove that dogbone mount?
I @$$ume you're going to remove the dogbone mount anyway, but I can't tell if any of it also supports the accessory drive and will have to stay.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-15-2019 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Can you plug the connector into the vertical sensor as it sits or will you have to remove that dogbone mount?
I @$$ume you're going to remove the dogbone mount anyway, but I can't tell if any of it also supports the accessory drive and will have to stay.

Actually it all fits nicely. I plan on using the dog bone mount to secure the engine.

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Report this Post02-15-2019 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Actually it all fits nicely. I plan on using the dog bone mount to secure the engine.


what are your plans to use that mount at that location to help secure the engine... the firewall isn't thick enough and the next closest bulkhead area would be the frame rail or the shock tower.. and the side mount bracket would be far better to start from... I'm only asking this because I've been staring at a similar engine for a while now.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-15-2019 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:


what are your plans to use that mount at that location to help secure the engine... the firewall isn't thick enough and the next closest bulkhead area would be the frame rail or the shock tower.. and the side mount bracket would be far better to start from... I'm only asking this because I've been staring at a similar engine for a while now.

I plan on adding structural components to beef up the area.

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-16-2019 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

I plan on adding structural components to beef up the area.


It just seems like the amount of beefing required to make a firewall-mounted dogbone mount point would result in something so heavy/bulky as to be impractical, and still probably not that good.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-16-2019 10:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:





Guess we will see.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post02-16-2019 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

On my Short Star and my LS4, I did not use a dogbone. I have 5 motor mounts. The Short* used stock liquid filled mounts and the LS4 uses poly. Neither engine moved enough to contact anything. And I do not feel engine or drive train vibrations. I hated the idea of using the heads as a motor mount on the Short*.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-17-2019 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

On my Short Star and my LS4, I did not use a dogbone. I have 5 motor mounts. The Short* used stock liquid filled mounts and the LS4 uses poly. Neither engine moved enough to contact anything. And I do not feel engine or drive train vibrations. I hated the idea of using the heads as a motor mount on the Short*.

That is worth considering, but the good news is that if the engine moves that little, having a dog bone shouldn't hurt.

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Report this Post02-17-2019 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

That is worth considering, but the good news is that if the engine moves that little, having a dog bone shouldn't hurt.


You may be correct?
For two reasons, I did not want to use a dog bone 1: I did not like that the dog bone mounted to the heads. I know the factory does it but they also replace head gaskets. Second: I did not like the thought of the bulkhead/firewall moving or flexing, even the slightest. Because the rear window is very difficult to replace it it cracks.
I have used the original dog bone mount of the Fiero at the strut tower location on at least one of the swaps I have done. But I had to make a new mount for the engine side of the dog bone. The factory dog bone is always on the wrong side of the engine for our Fiero swaps.

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Report this Post02-17-2019 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I too don't have a dogbone on my LS4. I used the basic 4 corner mounting method with rubber lower control arm bushings.
1. The bushings are quite stiff and since they are round and enclosed in a metal ring, they limit available movement.
2. The bushings are spaced about 24" apart front to rear, so they have a significant amount of leverage to control engine movement.
3. The bushings at the front and rear are also co-linear, which helps balance the torque loads between the bushings.

The factory mounts that Daryl is using are probably quite flexible to significantly reduce drivetrain vibrations. So even with 4 of those, he will likely need some type of dogbone as well to limit the engine movement at WOT.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-17-2019 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The mounts I used are from a first gen Cadillac SRX. The Cadillac engine is longitudinal with two of these in front and a transmission crossmember in the rear. I'm not exactly sure how much movement to expect in my application.

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 02-17-2019).]

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Will
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Report this Post02-19-2019 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

The mounts I used are from a first gen Cadillac SRX. The Cadillac engine is longitudinal with two of these in front and a transmission crossmember in the rear. I'm not exactly sure how much movement to expect in my application.



Keep in mind that longitudinal engine mounting methods only have to deal with driveshaft torque, while transverse engine mounting methods have to deal with axle torque.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-20-2019 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Keep in mind that longitudinal engine mounting methods only have to deal with driveshaft torque, while transverse engine mounting methods have to deal with axle torque.

Interesting you should mention that. Taking into consideration final drive gear reduction, the effective torque is about tripled but the speed of the torqing action is 1/3. How that effect plays out on mounts is an interesting puzzle.

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Report this Post02-20-2019 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I would estimate three times the engine movement vs. the original application.

I took the hypothesis that the movement is proportional to the applied torque.

In your case, since you have two transmission mounts spread apart, that's not quite the same as the single mount in the Caddy.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-20-2019).]

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Report this Post02-20-2019 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Interesting you should mention that. Taking into consideration final drive gear reduction, the effective torque is about tripled but the speed of the torqing action is 1/3. How that effect plays out on mounts is an interesting puzzle.


Just think about how much a Fiero fire wall will have to deal with if dog bones were yanking on it?
Not sure if you intend to use the stock engine dog bone mounts or not, but if you do want to use a dog bone or 2, consider switching them to the rear, and not on the fire wall.
Another reason to not use fire wall dog bones is for maintenance. Idesigned my engine swaps to be able to swing down the cradle easily for stuff like changing plugs. A dog bone under the deck lid could be difficult to disconnect for a cradle swing down.
Believe me, it SUX to work on stuff that can't be reached back there. Even the wire harnesses should have enough slack to flex the cradle down. OR be easily disconnected. The coolant pipes, and exhaust system should also be untouched for a cradle swing down.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-20-2019 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Just think about how much a Fiero fire wall will have to deal with if dog bones were yanking on it?
Not sure if you intend to use the stock engine dog bone mounts or not, but if you do want to use a dog bone or 2, consider switching them to the rear, and not on the fire wall.
Another reason to not use fire wall dog bones is for maintenance. Idesigned my engine swaps to be able to swing down the cradle easily for stuff like changing plugs. A dog bone under the deck lid could be difficult to disconnect for a cradle swing down.
Believe me, it SUX to work on stuff that can't be reached back there. Even the wire harnesses should have enough slack to flex the cradle down. OR be easily disconnected. The coolant pipes, and exhaust system should also be untouched for a cradle swing down.

I was thinking of a brace connecting the upper spaceframe siderails. Not thinking of using the firewall for support.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post02-20-2019 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I would estimate three times the engine movement vs. the original application.

I took the hypothesis that the movement is proportional to the applied torque.

In your case, since you have two transmission mounts spread apart, that's not quite the same as the single mount in the Caddy.


The distance from the mount to the axis of torque must also be considered.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post03-26-2019 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post













Finally took a few minutes to work on the 88 project. Exhaust is done and the cradle is pretty much ready to go into the car. Unfortunately the car is a long way from being ready for the cradle. I was inspired by attending and completing in my first car show with the 87GT. Unbelievably I took 1st place in the Fiero class. Got a really cool plaque for the shop and my picture taken with a pretty, young trophy girl. High point of my day!


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Report this Post04-03-2019 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Daryl,

I need a big favor, could you get me the stack height of your flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch. I 'think' the stock ATSV setup may very well fit in our Saab f40 bellhousings after talking to monster clutch out of Texas. I know the spline count and diameter match...just need the height

I'm having to initiate a credit card dispute with clutchnet as they've gone radio silent on me for several weeks after numerous calls and emails...

Thanks in advance...

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Daryl M
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Report this Post04-03-2019 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sorry, but it is already assemballed. Unless you know how to measure it while assemballed, we are too late. I used off the shelf parts for a 2.8l Saab. That info should be available somewhere.

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Report this Post04-03-2019 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

No worries.... Only way would be to pull the f40 off again, and axles, and mounts..major pita

Yeah you'd think but no one knows or no one responds.

If you have to pull the f40 again for some reason let me know...

Thanks!

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Daryl M
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Report this Post04-24-2019 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Finally done with other non-car projects so on to the next step. My 88 project did not have a rear sway bar. Does anyone have photos or diagrams of the factory 88 rear sway bar or of any other options people have used? I'm trying to figure how I am going to add a rear sway bar.
Thanks,
Daryl

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Report this Post04-25-2019 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There was a recent thread with some good pics, but the drawings in this thread are amazing and should have what you need
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116.html

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Report this Post04-25-2019 03:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

There was a recent thread with some good pics, but the drawings in this thread are amazing and should have what you need
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000116.html

This thread is great, but the suspension mods are extensive. I'm not sure his solutions will apply to a less modified suspension.

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Report this Post04-25-2019 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just referring to his recreations of the stock drawings. It is a big thread for sure takes a while to find stuff.

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Report this Post04-25-2019 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

Just referring to his recreations of the stock drawings. It is a big thread for sure takes a while to find stuff.


He has a table of contents in the first post.

Your rear transmission mount will interfere with the stock 88 sway bar. It mounts right in front of the rear cradle mount standoffs. You can raise the bar a little higher than stock as well as shift it forward some, but there are limits of clearance. The upper set of bars is the stock 88 rear with the Addco 88 rear so you can see the general shape.


Here is where mine is mounted. It is shifted about 1" higher to clear the 2x3 crossmember.

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Report this Post04-25-2019 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Can the front-bar-on-rear 84-87-style install be implemented on an 88 with really long endlinks to reach the knuckle/strut mounts?

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 04-25-2019).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post04-25-2019 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


He has a table of contents in the first post.

Your rear transmission mount will interfere with the stock 88 sway bar. It mounts right in front of the rear cradle mount standoffs. You can raise the bar a little higher than stock as well as shift it forward some, but there are limits of clearance. The upper set of bars is the stock 88 rear with the Addco 88 rear so you can see the general shape.


Here is where mine is mounted. It is shifted about 1" higher to clear the 2x3 crossmember.


I like this location, but I have a motor mount in the way. I'm thinking I could drill holes in the cradle tower, reinforce it, and use a sway bar with removable ends like this.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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Report this Post04-26-2019 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Can the front-bar-on-rear 84-87-style install be implemented on an 88 with really long endlinks to reach the knuckle/strut mounts?



I did that on my '87 Northstar car for a while. I mounted the bar to the bottom of the cradle, and used '88 sway bar brackets on the struts, swapped left for right so they extended to the rear instead of the front. I made rod-end links that were about 12" center to center.

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Report this Post04-26-2019 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Your rear transmission mount will interfere with the stock 88 sway bar. It mounts right in front of the rear cradle mount standoffs. You can raise the bar a little higher than stock as well as shift it forward some, but there are limits of clearance. The upper set of bars is the stock 88 rear with the Addco 88 rear so you can see the general shape.



Hard to tell from the photos, but the rear bank catalyst might cause problems too.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post05-06-2019 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.





Finally got started on my rear sway bar. The bar is a torsion bar from a 1989 Isuzu Trooper. Going to be fabricating end arms that resembal the stock photo shown. With a little luck, it may just work.
(Looks like the stock photo doesn't show up, but if you click on the png at the top, the photo is accessible.)

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 05-07-2019).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post05-08-2019 04:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


He has a table of contents in the first post.

Your rear transmission mount will interfere with the stock 88 sway bar. It mounts right in front of the rear cradle mount standoffs. You can raise the bar a little higher than stock as well as shift it forward some, but there are limits of clearance. The upper set of bars is the stock 88 rear with the Addco 88 rear so you can see the general shape.




Here is where mine is mounted. It is shifted about 1" higher to clear the 2x3 crossmember.



Guru,
This photo shows a sway bar mount attached to the strut bolts. What is that mount from?
Thanks,
Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 05-08-2019).]

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Will
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Report this Post05-08-2019 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That's a stock '88 Fiero part.

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Report this Post05-08-2019 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yes, that bracket is part of the stock 88 rear seat bar setup.

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Report this Post05-08-2019 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Yes, that bracket is part of the stock 88 rear seat bar setup.


Any idea where I can find a pair? Are they only from a 1988, or do other years have the same parts?

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 05-08-2019).]

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Report this Post05-09-2019 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:
Any idea where I can find a pair? Are they only from a 1988, or do other years have the same parts?



It is an 88 Formula or GT part. 4 cyl 88 coupes don't have them (unless they have been added).

Ask for them in the mall or on some of the facebook parts groups, call up the Fiero Factory, or reach out to your local 88 Fiero parts hoarder.

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