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My 1988 LFX F40 build. by Daryl M
Started on: 01-02-2019 10:42 PM
Replies: 569 (12496 views)
Last post by: Daryl M on 11-17-2020 05:44 PM
Joseph Upson
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Report this Post06-06-2020 05:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Joseph, after cutting the springs, did you heat and bend the end to flatten it?



No, that would affect temper and possibly ruin the spring, if not cause it to sit lower than intended. It was about 10 yrs ago when I did this, but I don't recall any trouble afterwards.

I don't believe I ever posted any follow up info, but here is a side by side comparison of the stock spring and Eibach so that you can get an idea of where about the 3/4 coil cut what leave you.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/107886-4.html
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-06-2020 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Joseph one more question. Did you cut from the top or bottom of the spring, or does it even matter?
Thanks for the help.
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Report this Post06-06-2020 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I cut from the top because of the cushing's ability to conform to the change.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-06-2020).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post06-07-2020 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Not to change the subject, but I have been looking at options for front springs. What are thoughts on methods for lowering the front by 1-1.5 inches? Are springs available? Can stock springs be trimmed ? Thoughts?


You have an 88... right?
My preferred method to lower the front of an 88 is to cut one coil from the bottom of the spring. I use a cutoff wheel, and dress the end of the wire with a file.
When you put it back together, make sure the coil is seated correctly in the indentation in the lower arm spring pocket. (It's also possible to not seat them correctly at the top. Just be careful, and it won't be a problem.

You will need to cut the "wedge" off of the top of your bump stops. It's just rubber. Takes about two minutes per side.

If you want a little stiffer spring, you can swap in an 86 GT spring. It will also need to be cut by ~one coil.

I have done these tweaks on both of my cars, but I cut the 86 spring by 1.25 coils. Should have stopped at 1, I think. YMMV.

88 coupe front springs, cut by one coil. 17x7. 215/45-17. 38mm offset.


86 GT front springs, cut by 1.25 coils. 17x7. 215/45-17. 48mm offset. (May ride .25" - .5" lower than the white car.)



Edit - Fieroguru has probably more 88 suspension experience than most anyone on the forum. I might suggest checking out some of his threads. He knows what works on an 88, especially in higher powered applications.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-07-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-08-2020 02:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


You have an 88... right?
My preferred method to lower the front of an 88 is to cut one coil from the bottom of the spring. I use a cutoff wheel, and dress the end of the wire with a file.
When you put it back together, make sure the coil is seated correctly in the indentation in the lower arm spring pocket. (It's also possible to not seat them correctly at the top. Just be careful, and it won't be a problem.

You will need to cut the "wedge" off of the top of your bump stops. It's just rubber. Takes about two minutes per side.

If you want a little stiffer spring, you can swap in an 86 GT spring. It will also need to be cut by ~one coil.

I have done these tweaks on both of my cars, but I cut the 86 spring by 1.25 coils. Should have stopped at 1, I think. YMMV.

88 coupe front springs, cut by one coil. 17x7. 215/45-17. 38mm offset.


86 GT front springs, cut by 1.25 coils. 17x7. 215/45-17. 48mm offset. (May ride .25" - .5" lower than the white car.)



Edit - Fieroguru has probably more 88 suspension experience than most anyone on the forum. I might suggest checking out some of his threads. He knows what works on an 88, especially in higher powered applications.



Thanks for the info. As it turns out I did a combination of yours and other suggestions and cut 3/4 of a coil off the bottom and assembled the front end this evening. New ball joints, tyrod ends, sway bar links and shocks. Looks nice, I just hope it gives the results I am looking for. Still have to fit the brakes.
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-14-2020 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Moving on to the next step, it was pointed out earlier in this thread that the Impala LFX engine has the radiator inlet and outlet reversed from what the stock engine has. Although there are several ways to address this issue, would any of you have suggestions on the pros and cons of the available options?
Thanks
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Will
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Report this Post06-15-2020 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get a custom radiator with the inlet/outlet reversed, thus avoiding a cross-cradle pipe?
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-15-2020 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is the way I am leaning. Any recommendations of a place to get one?
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Report this Post06-16-2020 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Griffin radiator is your best bet as they have a standard size, also reversed available, that "almost" fits but does require mounting modifications. See Steven Snyder griffin radiator in search.

I inquired about a custom fit from griffin but that would run about 1-1.5$k...
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-26-2020 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
New question for you sharp people. Since the coolant flow on the LFX is reversed from the 2.8, I am trying to work out coolant flow. I am getting a custom radiator that has the flow from the engine to the radiator on the passenger side. One of the heater hoses connects to that metal line going to the radiator. Can I just run the other heater hose that comes from the heater core, directly to the water pump fitting on the LFX? (See photo)
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-26-2020 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Daryl M

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Report this Post06-27-2020 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What is the coolant flow direction on this motor? I am asking for clarification because I do not know. I just read in a swap thread on a different forum that the coolant inlet is at the thermostat housing and the flow direction is reversed going from rear to front. I'm looking for confirmation on this.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-27-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-27-2020 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Joseph, the flow leaves the engine on the passenger side and returns on the driver's side at the thermostat. The photo of the fittings are at the thermostat housing. There are 3 small diameter hose fittings in addition to the radiator hose. One goes to the radiator overflow reservoir . The other two are probably for the heater and something else. Any ideas on how to plumb the heater?
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Report this Post06-27-2020 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What a headache. My car is rear wheel drive and has a different thermostat housing. It also has four ports not including the mount area for the block. I looked at my loose housing and it doesn't make much sense to me. If coolant flows into it, it does so from the top side of the thermostat, which means circulation of some sort is taking place inside the block in order to pass hot coolant over the thermostat element in order to open it to allow coolant into the block. The thermostat housing appears to be connected to a port that flows directly to the water pump through the block, as there is a rubber seal that internally seals the center inlet port from the housing to the block.

I have a little more insight from this discussion and looking into it more. So the coolant pipe attached at the front of my motor (heads) handles coolant from both of the cylinder heads. It's still confusing, because no coolant in means no coolant out, but it has to circulate to keep the pump happy. In this case, the housing has that center outlet sealed internally to the block and it is flanked by a large ported area, which suggests the coolant flows in a circular pattern on both banks of the block, from rear, to pump via the center internal block passage, to the pump and to the block and cylinder areas, on the way back to the rear end of the block. When the stat opens, coolant starts to flow through the heads, out to the radiator. That's what I gather at this point, but I know nothing about the metering to the heater core, but know my housing is swiss cheesy like and accommodates it some how.

This will have to be drawn out because my setup is like spaghetti. The 08 CTS also has an auxiliary water pump in the mix to add more hoses and connection points.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-27-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-27-2020 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This photo shows the short cycle line to heat the thermostat. 1 5933004460182559560585440948302.jpg[/img]
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-27-2020 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Daryl M

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Report this Post06-28-2020 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for pointing that out, it's not easily seen hidden beneath my intake and cover arrangement. It definitely solves my coolant access for turbocharging going forward.
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Report this Post06-28-2020 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Daryl,

Double check your hose outlet to your overflow tank connection. On my LF3 thermostat, which only differs in the fact that mine has an integral coolant temp sensor, the right most outlet, which you have connected to the overflow tank, is in fact the heater line and the over flow outlet is the one in the center.

I'll double check...

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 06-28-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-28-2020 05:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Msweldon, you are probably right. Thanks for catching that. So, what are you thoughts on heater hose routing. Can I run flow backwards through the heater core without problems?
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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-28-2020 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




Msweldon, does this look better?
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Report this Post06-28-2020 08:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like you have it attached to the heater return line.

Pipes from left to right on the tstat housing are : radiator return, heater return, coolant over flow/fill, then heater feed.

As far as the heater line I'm looking at running it either around the back side of the engine or under the engine oil pan as a hard line segment in the oem exhaust route as I have too much turbo/collector/catalytic stuff going on above transmission. You should be able to 180deg the heater feed over the transmission.

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 06-28-2020).]

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Report this Post06-28-2020 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RandomTaskClick Here to Email RandomTaskSend a Private Message to RandomTaskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Daryl, I was planning on using a c4 corvette fill.

I ran into another issue the other day and between being super busy with life and demotivating. Belt is a bit close, will need to adjust the mounts to get the engine up at least a half inch.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-28-2020 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Msweldon, where did you get that info? I'm a bit confused because the reservoir hose came off of the second or fourth from the left. I know this because when I took the reservoir off of the donor car (Impala), I left the original hose attached. The 3rd barb from the left is too small to fit the original hose. Do you think various car models could be different from one another?
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Report this Post06-29-2020 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Msweldon, where did you get that info? I'm a bit confused because the reservoir hose came off of the second or fourth from the left. I know this because when I took the reservoir off of the donor car (Impala), I left the original hose attached. The 3rd barb from the left is too small to fit the original hose. Do you think various car models could be different from one another?


There's a break in the application year at 2013, but it appears to be the result of slight change in the angle of one of the pipes, so probably a clearance modification. Clicking on the pictures in Rockauto, it appears your description is correct sort of. To me it appears the branch off of the outlet neck at the front of the heads is inop until the thermostat is opened. While the stat is closed, it looks as if the coolant is looped through the heater core in order to keep the pump happy and that involves the last two fittings to the right, if you're facing the back of the motor. One fitting bypasses the thermostat from the heater core and the last one to the right feeds the heater core. Looks like the reservoir should link the outlet pipe at the front to the smaller inlet pipe on the left side of the thermostat housing.

https://www.rockauto.com/en.../+water+outlet,10337

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-29-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-29-2020 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Joseph , I see how you came to that conclusion, but that doesn't explain why the hose on the reservoir and the barb you think it should go to are different sizes. The bigger barbs are either the one on the right when facing the bell housing end of the engine, or the barb that taps in to the radiator hose barb. I can't tell for sure what side of the pump and thermostat the far right barb connects to.
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Report this Post06-29-2020 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking at the bottom side of the thermostat housing, that's the only way I can see it working. With the stat closed, the only circuit available for circulation are the two fittings on the right side looking from the bellhousing end.

If you look at the bottom of the housing in the pic on rockauto, you can see that the stat is closed and no coolant can enter the block from the branch off of the coolant entry point on the left, and with no flow into the block past the thermostat, you can't get coolant out the front of the heads to circulate anything through the reservoir. When the stat opens, coolant comes in from the radiator on the left and then abundant flow can pass through the heads and out the water neck at the front of the heads, which the reservoir is connected to. I could be missing something since this is an fwd housing, mine is very different and takes a similar but different thermostat.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-29-2020).]

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Report this Post06-29-2020 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As I said.. I needed to double check.. and also stand corrected...

Here's a screen shot right out of the Mitchell online FSM for the LF3

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 06-29-2020).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post06-29-2020 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Msweldon, you rock. It looks like I can now run my hoses. Thanks.
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Report this Post07-05-2020 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Northstar is similar and pretty much all modern engines have "recirculating" thermostats.

The cold thermostat completely blocks off flow to the radiator. The flow recirculates through the block to ensure that the engine warms up consistently throughout, without any hot spots or cold spots. This ensures the quickest warmup and fastest transition out of cold start enrichment. Once the recirculating coolant is up to temperature, the thermostat starts to open, replacing some of the flow volume of coolant the engine has warmed up with cold coolant from the radiator. This is a gradual process in order not to cool the engine back down. Yes, the coolant circulation pattern is the way it is for emissions reasons.

If you try to use the '87-'88 Fiero heater return (or supply in this case) connection on the right coolant pipe, you will not have heater circulation until the thermostat opens. This sucks on a cold winter day. I swapped my '87 right side coolant pipe and heater pipes for the right side coolant pipe and heater pipes from an '86 and plumbed the heater core to the original connections on the Northstar. Getting heat on a cold winter morning took 1/3 as long as it did using the '87 heater return connection.
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Daryl M
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Report this Post07-06-2020 01:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will, thanks for the explanation. I'm not sure how important it is for the heater to work quickly. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I can't remember the last time I used a heater here.
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Report this Post07-07-2020 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
If you try to use the '87-'88 Fiero heater return (or supply in this case) connection on the right coolant pipe, you will not have heater circulation until the thermostat opens. This sucks on a cold winter day. I swapped my '87 right side coolant pipe and heater pipes for the right side coolant pipe and heater pipes from an '86 and plumbed the heater core to the original connections on the Northstar. Getting heat on a cold winter morning took 1/3 as long as it did using the '87 heater return connection.



I recently installed a 87 coolant pipe in my 85, but I cut the nipple off and welded it on the front end of the pipe directly under the heater core. long term, when I swap an LZ9 into my car (a decade or more from now I hope...) I'll add a second nipple at the engine, that way I retain the heater, and ditch one of the tubes under the car.

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Report this Post07-08-2020 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Uh, hurry this thing up, I want to see video and hear this this run
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Daryl M
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Report this Post07-09-2020 04:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ericjon262 I took a look at the heater hose mod you described. sounds like a good idea. hope you don't mind if I steal the idea. Rickady88GT I'd like to hear it too, but I have an interior to inststall first. Hard to turn the key when it isn't there.
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Daryl M
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Report this Post07-10-2020 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Any one know where I can get new ones? They are the heater tube mounting brackets.
Thanks
Daryl
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Report this Post07-10-2020 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd love to know the PN...
But there are any number of dual tube clamps on the market.

I was expecting to use two P-Clamps to secure mine in a place on the firewall that needs low profile mounting due to proximity to the alternator.

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Report this Post07-12-2020 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Time for the stupid question of the day, from top to bottom in this photo, which hose connections are for what? I am assuming they are fuel feed to engine, fuel return to tank , and vent, although not necessarily in that order.
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Daryl
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Report this Post07-12-2020 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Large (3/8") is fuel supply to filter.
Medium (5/16") is fuel return from fuel rail
Small (1/4") is the vent tube to expansion or charcoal canister.
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ChuckR
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Report this Post07-12-2020 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChuckRClick Here to Email ChuckRSend a Private Message to ChuckREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The double clamp is the fuel line single clamped hose is return the one without a hose is your vent. I just did a fuel pump on my car and drove it for the first time since September. I am sooo happy.
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Daryl M
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Report this Post07-12-2020 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys.
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post07-17-2020 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found the attached link while searching for other info and recognized it as the maker of the exhaust flanges I'm considering purchasing for my own project. Someone inquired about standalone engine management for the 3.6L although I do not recall who and this appears to be a source although I have not confirmed it given the date of the video. I may give them a call and inquire about what muffler they used on the test stand LLT, which sounds nice and cammed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZSb62HJAfw
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