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300WHP Supernatural 3.XX Coming Soon! by La fiera
Started on: 01-01-2018 09:47 PM
Replies: 297 (8542 views)
Last post by: La fiera on 11-27-2020 07:12 PM
jdv
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Report this Post09-10-2020 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
La fiera what timing chain are you running on that motor ? Real nice looking.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-10-2020 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
IIRC it's the Cloyes double-roller. My engine has one too. It's good stuff.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post09-10-2020 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The stock silent chains I have seen all stretch out, even on low-miles engines.

I bought a Cloyes chain for my Fiero, and I was concerned that additional noise (vs. a silent chain) could cause the knock sensor to be falsely triggered.

Well, that didn't happen. I don't have have unwanted knock retard all the time for no reason, so the Cloyes chain seems OK in that respect.
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-10-2020 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
JVD, like Blacktree and PMBrunnelle have testified I have a double roller chain. The stock chain at low miles WILL stretch specially if you have stronger spring pressures. The heavier the valvetrain the more stretch you will have and those stock valves are heavy. That's why this Supernatural 3.7 has super lightweight valvetrain.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 09-10-2020).]

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lou_dias
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Report this Post09-11-2020 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have a part # for it?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-11-2020 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like it was discontinued.
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-11-2020 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

Looks like it was discontinued.


It is, it took me while to get this one. You might find a NOS somewere. I don't remember the part number but search it in Summit or Jegs. Search if for a 2.8 not for a 3.4.
Once I take the 3.4 out I'll check the play, maybe I can re use it. I know that the stock chain was stretched A LOT in the 2.8 with only like 600 miles of hard pounding between dyno and the track.
If you can't get it them the other option you have is to lighten the valves as much as you can.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 09-11-2020).]

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jdv
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Report this Post09-11-2020 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's what i thought. It seems like I have one of the last ones new in box. Anyone remember how much they go for new? I found a stash of parts that I bought years ago when I cleaned out a storage unit.
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-11-2020 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jdv:

That's what i thought. It seems like I have one of the last ones new in box. Anyone remember how much they go for new? I found a stash of parts that I bought years ago when I cleaned out a storage unit.


I think I paid $130 for mine. It's worth it.
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-11-2020 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
These are the official iron heads flow numbers on these heads with the 3.7 Supernatural bore.

Intake:
.100= 62
.200= 121
.300= 163
.400= 188
.500= 195
.600= 201

Exhaust:
.100= 56
.200= 102
.300= 143
.400= 158
.500= 153
.600= 150

I published these numbers because for me these are only reference. They seem low right? If I change something in the package they will change for the good or for the bad.
I can make these bigger if I make the intake/valve combo more efficient. So, in other words these numbers are not concrete.
That's why some of you, specially the Third Gen crowd can't believe I made this much power with iron heads. All the aparatus above and below the heads/numbers are critical factors.


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lou_dias
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Report this Post09-17-2020 03:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Work is progressing...
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-17-2020 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:




Work is progressing...


Glad to see you progress Lou!

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post09-17-2020 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like machining cast iron way more than machining aluminium.
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-17-2020 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I like machining cast iron way more than machining aluminium.


Yes, a little mistake in aluminum is a big chunk! Iron head machining is more forgiving!
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-19-2020 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post09-19-2020 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Reusing the same exhaust?

Will you be retuning the exhaust pipe length?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post09-20-2020 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm excited to see this new engine roar to life!
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La fiera
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Report this Post09-20-2020 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Reusing the same exhaust?

Will you be retuning the exhaust pipe length?

Yes, the same exhaust will be used until the new headers are finished.
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lou_dias
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Report this Post09-29-2020 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like it might still be available here:

https://engine-parts.com/pr...ied-for-clearancing/
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Report this Post09-29-2020 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Over a hundred bucks.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post09-29-2020 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Over a hundred bucks.


That's a reasonable price.

I paid $184.23 CAD + shipping for a Cloyes 93137 kit in March 2017.
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Report this Post09-29-2020 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want to play, you gotta pay
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La fiera
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Report this Post11-07-2020 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

If you want to play, you gotta pay





And since I don't want to pay twice, I jumped a couple of years ahead.
More details later on!
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sourmash
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Report this Post11-07-2020 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was just fishing for feedback before smashing the PAY NOW button for 2 of them.

Hey, don't want to scare you but your crank has some welded discs on it.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-07-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post11-07-2020 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I was just fishing for feedback before smashing the PAY NOW button for 2 of them.

Hey, don't want to scare you but your crank has some welded discs on it.



Yes, that’s Mallory. It’s used to balance rotating assemblies. I took weight from the outer perimeter of the counter weights and relocated that weight towards the center axis of rotation. The entire rotating assembly is balanced.
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Will
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Report this Post11-09-2020 08:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, there's a lot of work into balancing that piece.
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Will
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Report this Post11-09-2020 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess the 7x reluctor means that's an LX9 crank? Looks like the cast one. Didn't GM make a few forged cranks for that engine?
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La fiera
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Report this Post11-10-2020 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a regular 3.4L crank. The difference is that I reduced its outer perimeter thus relocating the weightmore towards the center were that same weight will spin at a slower rate.
It also needed a bit more Mallory to balance the beefier rods and forged pistons.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post11-10-2020 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You cut an oil groove in the main bearing journal?

I don't remember the stock crank having that.
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La fiera
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Report this Post11-10-2020 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

You cut an oil groove in the main bearing journal?

I don't remember the stock crank having that.


No, that's an illusion due to oil in the groove of the bearing and as I spun it a trace of oil gets on the crank.

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La fiera
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Report this Post11-12-2020 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post11-14-2020 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Yeah, there's a lot of work into balancing that piece.

My thoughts exactly. This is looking more and more like a "maximum effort" racing engine.
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La fiera
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Report this Post11-14-2020 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

My thoughts exactly. This is looking more and more like a "maximum effort" racing engine.


Yep, for the class I'll be running it is. I'm capped at maximum displacement, so anything I can think of that can give me an advantage I'll try.
A turbo would be like giving up and would give me a huge handicap. Installing an LS will also be like throwing the towel plus an even bigger handicap.
Replacing some engine parts is still a lot cheaper than an EFR turbo + hardware or an entire built LS swap.
Now that leaves me as a driver to make up for the rest. Its more fun that way, I love being the underdog!
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Will
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Report this Post11-16-2020 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

My thoughts exactly. This is looking more and more like a "maximum effort" racing engine.


That is what I thought he was building from the beginning of this thread.
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ericjon262
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Report this Post11-19-2020 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I guess the 7x reluctor means that's an LX9 crank? Looks like the cast one. Didn't GM make a few forged cranks for that engine?


LX9 cranks use a 24x LS1 reluctor wheel, all four that I have owned were forged. AFAIK, none of the pre-LX9 cranks were forged from the factory.
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Report this Post11-19-2020 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


LX9 cranks use a 24x LS1 reluctor wheel, all four that I have owned were forged. AFAIK, none of the pre-LX9 cranks were forged from the factory.


Ahh, ok.

Did the LX9 have 2.000 or 2.250 rod journals?
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StreetRod4
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Report this Post11-19-2020 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for StreetRod4Send a Private Message to StreetRod4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LX9 is a 2.25 rod journal
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La fiera
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Report this Post11-20-2020 08:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by StreetRod4:

LX9 is a 2.25 rod journal


Is it possible to drop the LX9 crank in the the 3.4L block? Of course, changing rods and make the MS work the the 24x signal.

Thank you.
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Report this Post11-20-2020 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


Is it possible to drop the LX9 crank in the the 3.4L block? Of course, changing rods and make the MS work the the 24x signal.

Thank you.


I'm not the expert on that in particular, but I haven't heard of a reason it wouldn't work.

2.250" journal is the same size as the Chevy 4.3 V6, so it's not such a weird size.
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Report this Post11-20-2020 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for StreetRod4Send a Private Message to StreetRod4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


Is it possible to drop the LX9 crank in the the 3.4L block? Of course, changing rods and make the MS work the the 24x signal.

Thank you.


LX9 crank should fit the 3.4 block with some minor clearancing of the pan rail. You could offset grind it if you wanted more or less stroke if you cut it down for a 2.0 rod journal. You would probably want to have the bearing surface rehardened afterwards though. You can find more info on the LX9 cranks on the 60degreev6 forum
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