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The Turbo 3500 F23 swap by ericjon262
Started on: 10-03-2011 11:26 PM
Replies: 409 (18287 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 01-09-2019 02:22 AM
ericjon262
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Report this Post10-03-2011 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I finally called it quits trying to fix my 1985 Fiero SE's 2.8, the car just wouldn't run, so I made the choice to pull the old iron headed POS and put something new in, 2 something to be precise!

Here's what I started with...



and here's the new stuff!

My F23!



My LX9



I decided on the LX9 3500 for several reasons, it's compact, it's lighter than the stock 2.8, makes good power per liter, and shares some similarities to the 2.8 dimensionaly they also, sound cool!



I cut the bottom of the trunk out to make room for an exhaust, and possibly, turbos!



This is my $15 alternator, went for the bracket, popped the hood, and there it is, a brand new delphi!



Steel crank FTW!



Clutch, Crank trigger, and TB adapter!



Crank trigger semi installed!



LX5 "shortstar" throttle body.



Uh oh!



Here we go!






Obligatory "me in the engine bay" pic



Engine and trans hovering over the cradle.






BEST CREWCHIEF EVER



Remote oil filter adapter and custom plumbing.

Edit: the oil filter plumbing has been redone, and is nothing like the below pictures now.










Right now, I'm neck deep in wiring, and halfway done with the engine and transmission mounts.



thats my front trans mount, unfinished, I've cut the tab and ground it smoother.

I'm still working on my front and rear engine mount, and my rear trans mount, I'll keep the thread updated, and post lots of pics along the way(like I said, dailup beware!).

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Niterrorz
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Report this Post10-03-2011 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NiterrorzSend a Private Message to NiterrorzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

you had me untill the oil filter plumbing

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-03-2011 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Niterrorz:

you had me untill the oil filter plumbing


the oil filter would sit right against the side of the a/c compressor, I also didn't want rubber lines where I couldn't access them for inspection. I'm not 100% where the filter will be when I'm done. The adapter's ports are 1/2" pipe thread and I can put a couple of tack welds on the 1/2" gas pipe to secure it 100% when it's set.

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Report this Post10-04-2011 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice progress. I'm going to second the oil filter plumbing redo. If you want hard lines get an adapter for 3/8" or 1/2" brake line. That stuff is HEAVY and will probably crack your filter adapter.

~sam

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Report this Post10-04-2011 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Looking good....I have been waiting on some detailed build Threads on the newer motors out there. Keep it up....

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-04-2011 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by neophile_17:

Nice progress. I'm going to second the oil filter plumbing redo. If you want hard lines get an adapter for 3/8" or 1/2" brake line. That stuff is HEAVY and will probably crack your filter adapter.

~sam



I'm going to make a support bracket to hold it up, it won't be free standing like that when completed. it's also the same inside diameter as the adapters, so there won't be a significant restriction to flow. it's not set in stone yet, but I probably won't go with brake line, it's too small, 1/2" brake line is 1/2" out side, 1/2" pipe is 1/2" inside.

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Report this Post10-04-2011 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm skeptical that you need a full 1/2" ID for this but you could run 5/8" Aluminum fuel line if you wanted to save weight and keep a 1/2" minimum ID.

~sam

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Report this Post10-04-2011 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KaijuSensoSend a Private Message to KaijuSensoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

and bookmarked

Looking good so far. I'm most interested in seeing the F23 come together with the 3500. I'm sure you know this but after you get your 3400 harmonic balance on, don't forget to gap the external 7x crank trigger to 0.050 inches. You also kind of lost me on that oil filter adapter. I know I mentioned using a 3400 AC compressor but if you want to go with the relocation, why not turn those 90 degree bends towards the driver's side of the car. There is a ton more room there (on my swap) then near the battery where your oil filter looks to be heading.

Anyway interested in seeing your build.

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Report this Post10-04-2011 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:



Gotta love bolting in an additional 700 cc's and 50% more horsepower to the original mounts.

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Report this Post10-04-2011 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for neophile_17Send a Private Message to neophile_17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

LOL. The only thing I didn't cheap out on with my 3400 swap was Rodney's polyurethane mounts. Of course I have to convince some skeptical people it cost me less than $500 too. It was close enough.

~sam

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Report this Post10-04-2011 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

that timing cover looks familiar...

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-04-2011 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Gotta love bolting in an additional 700 cc's and 50% more horsepower to the original mounts.


The mount is for mockup only, I'm ordering rodney's poly mount on payday.

hookdonspeed-

yep, that's your old one!

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-12-2011 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

just a little update, I got my balancer in with the 24x ring.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

unfortunately progress is going pretty slow, 40+ hours a week at work, then work on my house, keeping my truck running ect... and on top of that, the last 2 days off I've had have consisted of working on other peoples cars!

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Report this Post02-17-2012 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I demand that you update both sites!

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Report this Post02-17-2012 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

The mount is for mockup only, I'm ordering rodney's poly mount on payday.

hookdonspeed-

yep, that's your old one!




I meant that *ZERO* fab was necessary to mount the engine.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post02-17-2012 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
I meant that *ZERO* fab was necessary to mount the engine.


oh, I thought you were being sarcastic about the 26 year old mount being used, there is a small amount of clearancing nessacary on the oilpan of the 3500, but nothing a sidegrinder can't take care of.

Purchased a mount from rodney, but I think I'm going to make a new mount for the front to replace it, I may have a better way...

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Report this Post02-17-2012 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

I demand that you update both sites!


oops, forgot about the build thread I had(have) over here...I'll see about posting some updates to the fiero crowd later tonight...

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Report this Post02-18-2012 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

anyone ready for some updates???







This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.









This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Most of my new 5x4.75 swap is here now, and I started on the brakes, unfortunately, I have to go back to the machine shop and have some more machine work done...






you can see where the caliper is colliding with the threaded ears for the original minivan brakes, I'm going to have those cut off, and I'll have the upright drilled and tapped further over so the caliper will overlap the whole rotor for better clamping.

The new brakes seen in this picture are from a 1995 Trans Am, they are both larger and vented. the fronts will be updated to 2001 Trans Am front brakes, again, both vented and larger too. I have the weekend off, so there will be progress!

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 02-18-2012).]

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ericjon262
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Report this Post02-18-2012 01:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

and if your dial up didn't already get killed here's one more...

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ericjon262
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Report this Post02-18-2012 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

well, I made the call tonight, my headers are getting scrapped and re-done, I really liked the design, but, I, like an idiot, welded them with my flux core welder

Now, I'm going to make sure everything else is right, and then I'm going to buy some new pipe, and use my buddies tig welder, which I am very quickly getting used to, and weld them up right this time.

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Report this Post02-18-2012 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You could try and wire wheel the welds and go over them with the tig. Tape off the ends, poke a small hole for air to escape and purge with argon and the inside will weld up nice too. Just a thought.

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Report this Post02-19-2012 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by joshua riedl:

You could try and wire wheel the welds and go over them with the tig. Tape off the ends, poke a small hole for air to escape and purge with argon and the inside will weld up nice too. Just a thought.


I was going to do just that, but I'd rather start over at this point.

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Report this Post02-27-2012 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Started on my dogbone mount today, the near side of the mount will be held my another piece of plate that goes down to the bellhousing bolts.



also did a little work on one of my front side trans mounts, The poly mount will straddle the front left "horn" of the cradle.



like this



I'm also almost done with my rear trans mount since the thelin mount wouldn't work, I decided to use his as a guide, and build my own off of it.





once I'm done with the mounts, I'll get started again on the headers.

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Report this Post02-27-2012 07:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice!

Is that cut out on the driver side to clear the tie rod mount?

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Report this Post02-27-2012 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

Nice!

Is that cut out on the driver side to clear the tie rod mount?


you got it, I'll probably have to do something similar on the passenger side

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ericjon262
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Report this Post04-27-2012 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

gents, it's on, I just threw down on a GT35 turbo, we're gonna make some power!

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Report this Post05-05-2012 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

this thing looks like it will just choke up my exhaust!?




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Report this Post05-05-2012 02:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

First time seeing this thread, looking good! I finished my 3800/F23 recently, and the F23 works great! Too high gearing in my opinion, but it's still really fun, it just hates traffic.

And there is something about nice looking bumper-pads that appeal to me for some reason...

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Report this Post05-05-2012 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I plan to lower the car, but otherwise, I think i'll leave the body stock, or very stock appearing.

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Report this Post05-07-2012 01:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

worked a bunch on my shift linkages today...





should be enough room under the shift cables for the turbo.




I also started re-doing my front mounts.



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Report this Post06-12-2012 02:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

guys, it's been a while since I've posted an update, so here goes.

I'm working on adding power steering to the car, right now, I've got a pump 1/2 way mocked up, and will hopefully finalize the mounting this week. I've finished the front transmission mount, and am going to re-do my shift linkage once the engine is in the car to help make more room for my turbo. I've also started re-doing the wiring harness yet again(third time...) due to changing component locations. I'm waiting on some custom parts from TCE to hopefully get the intake on and finished for good soon. I'm also ordering some 16 ga pipe for my new turbo headers. anyone got some 60lb injectors I can borrow?

Power steering mockup:


and just for shits and grins, here's a comparison shot of the stock fiero UIM vs the LX9 UIM

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Report this Post06-12-2012 06:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So happy to see the whole engine being installed. I've done a lot of experimenting along these lines, unless you intend for someone else that lacks the stamina to turn the relatively practical powersteeringless Fiero, I strongly advise you to ditch the addition of power steering. You have enough going on already with a tranny, engine and turbo swap going on at the same time. I've been there and I speak from experience, KEEP IT SIMPLE until the base install is complete and functional.

STOP! with the plumber rendition, get that crap off of that motor now, you're asking for trouble. Even supported I wouldn't trust that pipe on that light duty oil bypass adaptor. If you're afraid of rubber hose in that application, braided steel line will put you at ease, siliconeintakes has everything you need at very reasonable prices. I can't emphasize it enough, that pipe needs to come off.

Otherwise it looks good and should be a lot more fun to drive than what you are prepared for if you turbocharge it. That body style is one of the lightest produced, you might need to put a few bricks in it to keep it on the ground.

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Report this Post06-12-2012 06:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I see you intend to use the stock fuel rail, do not use the Mallory bypass adjustable fuel pressure regulator, I read poor reviews about it after purchasing it and am experiencing one of the complaints; inconsistent fuel pressure which I believe is part of the reason I can't completely eliminate idle hunt.

For the oil bypass setup I used a 90 degree flat adaptor with the 3900 block mount adaptor which is a little shorter than the one your motor came with and it cleared the cradle easily.

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Report this Post06-12-2012 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I see where you're going with the front tranny mount now... I need to get started on this, but the lift I am going to be using is being used to make money right now...

 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

I see you intend to use the stock fuel rail, do not use the Mallory bypass adjustable fuel pressure regulator, I read poor reviews about it after purchasing it and am experiencing one of the complaints; inconsistent fuel pressure which I believe is part of the reason I can't completely eliminate idle hunt.

For the oil bypass setup I used a 90 degree flat adaptor with the 3900 block mount adaptor which is a little shorter than the one your motor came with and it cleared the cradle easily.


What do you suggest for an FPR then? I believe one of the examples I've seen just uses a stock 3400 FPR modified to work remotely... I am doing a similar install, without the turbo, in my 88 utilizing the returnless rail of the 3500...

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Report this Post06-12-2012 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:

So happy to see the whole engine being installed. I've done a lot of experimenting along these lines, unless you intend for someone else that lacks the stamina to turn the relatively practical powersteeringless Fiero, I strongly advise you to ditch the addition of power steering. You have enough going on already with a tranny, engine and turbo swap going on at the same time. I've been there and I speak from experience, KEEP IT SIMPLE until the base install is complete and functional.

STOP! with the plumber rendition, get that crap off of that motor now, you're asking for trouble. Even supported I wouldn't trust that pipe on that light duty oil bypass adaptor. If you're afraid of rubber hose in that application, braided steel line will put you at ease, siliconeintakes has everything you need at very reasonable prices. I can't emphasize it enough, that pipe needs to come off.


Otherwise it looks good and should be a lot more fun to drive than what you are prepared for if you turbocharge it. That body style is one of the lightest produced, you might need to put a few bricks in it to keep it on the ground.


there's only the 2 elbows on there now, I'll use the hose past there. as far as power steering goes, I'm only mounting the pump right now, and I'm making it a "bolt in setup" I don't intend to do the entire power steering swap just yet, but FYI, i'm also doing a 5x4.75 bolt circle swap, and big brake swap, along with coil-overs.

Can you enlighten me as to what you mean by "the whole engine"

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carbon
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Report this Post06-12-2012 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

Can you enlighten me as to what you mean by "the whole engine"



My guess is all the recent interest in putting iron heads on GenIII blocks...

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post06-12-2012 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:
My guess is all the recent interest in putting iron heads on GenIII blocks...


Exactly! Back when tuning software was scarce along with good documentation it was understandable but not now.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post06-23-2012 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

wells guys, I have a slight update! I'm ordering a cam for the 3500 on payday, I've got the garage almost completely cleaned out, and am getting ready to "test fit" the engine so I can finalize my shift linkages and turbo placement, after that, it'll be back to the drawing board for my headers and exhaust. anyone want to donate money (or parts) to the turbo 3500 fund?

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Report this Post06-24-2012 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
anyone want to donate money (or parts) to the turbo 3500 fund?


I'd like to, but by the time I finish laughing you'll be finished with the project. It gets expensive fast and the most costly of all is over ambition, poor planning, then coming up with good plans and not following them and finally getting good advice and not following it, been there and done it.

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Report this Post06-24-2012 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I don't think I've gotten too far ahead of myself with anything yet except the first run on the headers, but that was because the car was going to go n/a and have changed my mind(obviously...) the little things, like the first front trans mount, were more of a trial and error thing.

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