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The Turbo 3500 F23 swap by ericjon262
Started on: 10-03-2011 11:26 PM
Replies: 765 (28234 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 11-25-2022 05:44 AM
Will
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Report this Post04-03-2013 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you done any calculations to figure out what the actual temperature rise of the water through the intercooler will be?
I bet it's not very much... not enough to be concerned about in terms of running the hoses next to each other.
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Report this Post04-03-2013 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Have you done any calculations to figure out what the actual temperature rise of the water through the intercooler will be?
I bet it's not very much... not enough to be concerned about in terms of running the hoses next to each other.


What's weird about this is that the water in the reservoir never feels as warm as the inlet temp reading in the log when the water pump is running continuously.

If you set the water pump up to come on only when in boost it is not only not as effective at cooling the intake charge, it also substantially raises the base temp of the water and in that circumstance does not cool the intake charge as much as it does when the pump is continuously circulating the water through the exchanger and you're right, the heat put into the intercooler is about 1+/- degree per second you're in boost from what I've seen in my logs which will vary with the reservoir volume.
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Report this Post04-03-2013 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Should be a pretty simple calculation to derive the temperature rise...

Compressor discharge temp, air mass flow, heat exchanger efficiency and water mass flow should be about it for system variables.
Constants will be specific heat of air, specific heat of water.

The "worst case" is the most efficient heat exchanger, which brings the charge air temp all the way back to ambient.
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Report this Post04-07-2013 02:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks good man. I wish I could route mine that way. I have the battery cables routed along there. I dont like the way Whodeanie routed mine, along the coolant hardlines. Too much heat transfer. I am looking into routing them in the rockers. Seems like there is goign to be plenty of room if I use hard line. What are you using, exactly? And how are you bending it? Thanks.

Edit... but then, if I read that correctly, you have a relocated battery as well! Oh I am very interested now! I got to see how this works out!

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Report this Post04-07-2013 02:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mines an 88GT. Hmm, maybe you could make two sets of the coolant tubes? I really don't like all that rubber hose under my car. And I still need to replace the exhaust. The exhaust Dean built for my car is pathetic. I have repaired, or replaced so much of what he done it makes me sick. Anyway, if you look at the link below, this is exactly how I want to do my exhaust. I pm'd the guy about duplicating the exhaust from the catback but he hasn't responded.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/127002.html

Pics






Here is the crap Dean built! So much for a custom 3" exhaust!

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Report this Post04-07-2013 06:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
Here is the crap Dean built! So much for a custom 3" exhaust!



I wouldn't want my electric exhaust cutout anywhere near me, even located aft center of the car it is loud and several times more with the throttle wide open. It's not easy in such a small space to have a good muffled system that also has sufficient flow. When I added the exhaust cutout boost pressure went up 3+ psi upon opening it all else the same. The car felt fine but it took adding the cutout to realize how much it was bottled up.
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Report this Post04-07-2013 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
TBH, with the turbo it doesn't really get much louder when its open. You get more turbo whistle, and thats about it. Hopefully, I can get the 3" exhaust sorted to where I wont need the cut out. But, I have it, I may just use it anyway.
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Report this Post04-07-2013 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

TBH, with the turbo it doesn't really get much louder when its open. You get more turbo whistle, and thats about it. Hopefully, I can get the 3" exhaust sorted to where I wont need the cut out. But, I have it, I may just use it anyway.


I've read that a number of times and I'm not sure what your idea of loud is but the only quiet turbo car I've owned was my twin turbo IROC Z and it had a long exhaust to make that possible. The only way I would drive through my neighborhood with my exhaust cutout open at 5 a.m. in the morning is if it was stuck open and I'm sure I have turbo whistle, I just can't hear it very well over the exhaust note which is a little bassy. No idea of what TBH means but I understand why my preceptor chewed me out for using acronyms in notes and discussions.

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Report this Post04-07-2013 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:


I've read that a number of times and I'm not sure what your idea of loud is but the only quiet turbo car I've owned was my twin turbo IROC Z and it had a long exhaust to make that possible. The only way I would drive through my neighborhood with my exhaust cutout open at 5 a.m. in the morning is if it was stuck open and I'm sure I have turbo whistle, I just can't hear it very well over the exhaust note which is a little bassy. No idea of what TBH means but I understand why my preceptor chewed me out for using acronyms in notes and discussions.


TBH= to be honest. And I despise loud cars, for the record.

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Report this Post04-08-2013 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

I really dig that build, it's in league with fieroguru's LS4 F40 swap, absolutely top notch. when I re-do my turbo setup in stainless, it'll be more like that. I'm very disappointed in the hotside I built, I mounted the turbo too far away, and now I'm gonna have to either run a giant oil return, or a scavenge pump. I'd rather not run scavenge pump, but I might have too. the only problem with a big return line, is where the hell would I put it...

if I had more time to work on it, I'd make a second set, but I'm getting pretty close to my deadline, as I leave for boot camp May 21st.



Good news.. he is willing to copy his exhaust for me. Its expensive, but worth every penny! Sounds like you are as hard on your work as I am for mine. Always coming up with revisions.... thats a good thing, well, to a point! I just sold the Turbowerks pump from mine. I am very happy to make the switch back to a gravity drain. One less point of failure if you ask me. My return isnt optimal, but in the short time Charlie had it running (before I tore it all back apart again) he drove the car a good 10 miles to the dyno and it didnt smoke anymore. Then obviously it went all pear-shaped and here I am again.. back to square one. Yeah, you are running out of time. I hope you get it done before you ship out. Maybe we will both get lucky and have them on the road very soon!
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Report this Post04-08-2013 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

I'm going to try to run a gravity drain on mine, but if it doesn't work out, I've already got a relay wired in to run a scavenge pump. I'm very hard on my work, if I wasn't in as big of a rush to get the car back on the road, I'd be making lots of changes...

intercooler HE lines installed, on the left is the line going to the HE, on the right, is the return line, that also supports the battery cables.


I highly doubt you'll have any trouble with your oil return as too far away is relative in that small compartment and it's being too low that can give you trouble. I use a 3/4" oil drain back and although part of my trouble was due to location I barely have a grade between the oil drain and the return at the oil pan. It's so close that the return hose has touched the jackshaft before and I don't have any trouble with oil drain back amazingly. I still have the Holley Black external fuel pump with an all metal impeller in place to use as a scavenge pump just in case. I found out about it while researching oil scavenge pumps and not hearing good results about many of the ones in use not to mention the down time if one goes out since no one in town seems to have them on the shelf. The pump worked great the few months I had it in use. A good PCV system will also help keep oil out of the turbine housing also.

I'm not critiquing, I've been turbocharging Fieros since I purchased my first one back in Tallahassee ~1996. I'm speaking from experience with my own setups when I make suggestions. There is enough room to run the HE to and from lines right along side the tank attached to the heater and AC lines. Your lines are sitting lower than the coolant pipes which are some times crushed by accident and having run over a ladder on I-4 at 65 mph (thank God it was length wise) and accidentally dropped one wheel off the shoulder of the road into a water rut scraping the bottom of the car, running the lines along side the tank is a good place. My hoses are zip tied to the existing pipes. Normally this is not a problem until you actually have something to lose, or get damaged. With your lines located where they are, luck will have it that you scrape stuff you've never had a problem with before. At some point you'll find the tallest speed bump in town.
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Report this Post04-08-2013 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Make me a set Eric? Let me know if you need anything.. I have tons of Fiero crap laying around.
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Report this Post04-09-2013 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should wrinkle red or wrinkle black the VC & intake!
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Report this Post04-11-2013 04:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post04-13-2013 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Build is looking great man!
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Report this Post04-14-2013 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroaddictedClick Here to Email fieroaddictedSend a Private Message to fieroaddictedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
I'll give the centerforce a shot and see if it can take the pain!


haha Ya i think i made a poor choice on the clutch, but we'll see. I hope it does the job.
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quote
[B]Originally posted by ericjon262





Very nice!
You could sell the crap out of those to the Fbody and MG guys, or anyone running a 3x00 in a rwd longitudinal setup

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Report this Post04-15-2013 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
and D&D welding here in pensacola welded it up.


I think I used them when I lived in P'cola... '01-'04.
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Report this Post04-17-2013 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

didn't get as much done today as I wanted, but I did get the fuel pump installed, and the tank back in the car. I also got the new relays wired in, and the hotwire for the fuel pump mostly done(just need to runt he wire to the pump)


later 3rd generation Fbodies use a better style relay then what the Fiero came with stock, and when I was snatching the pigtails at the JY, I noticed they had a nice little bracket to hold them, so I took that too.


also, for anyone interested in 3500 swaps, the 3500 uses a different ignition then the earlier GM 60*V6, so you have to re-drill the coil mount for the earlier ignition if you run a earlier PCM or go obd1. early 90's 3800SC(maybe N/a too) bonnevilles, and 3.4 Fbodies have a nice little adapter plate that holds the ICM in place with 3 larger bolts, the reason I mention it, is that I find it's easier to drill 3 big holes accurately, then 6 little holes. I took pics, but my phone didn't save them, so I'll have to re-take them.

still hadn't made up my mind on the muffler. I'll probably go with either the aerochamber, or a dynomax welded ultra flow



Borla 40085 is pretty sweet (pictured above).
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Report this Post04-18-2013 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not sure if your module is actually built into the PCM and you really mean coil pack mount eric, but either way due to your header design that's a bad location for the mount now. Unless you take extreme measures to shield it the chances of burning out the coils/modules are going to be much higher. I have a modified stock manifold with the stock heat shield attached and a few months ago cooked a module in that location. The temps will be very high off of the thinner header style manifold and that heat is going to rise up toward the coil assembly and be trapped there especially during the Summer months. That's the main reason I moved my coil assembly to the cooler end of the motor on the passenger side. The addition of a turbo changes a lot of things relative to the stock motor conditions, everything experiences higher than usual temps.
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