Ok, one step closer! I rented a U-Haul and took the car to the exhaust shop today. I brought the muffler, a diagram of a standard Fiero 3800 exhaust for reference, and my Corvette Z06 exhaust tips. They are not sure of the muffler I brought them, he thinks there is one that is identical, but around 3 inches shorter. This would give a little more clearance and room to work. They are going to call me tomorrow with more information when the main warehouse they order from is open.
Ole' Blue all ready to go to the shop on the trailer:
Up on the lift and the tech getting their first look at what needs to be done:
One thing the tech noticed immediately as we rolled the car back into the bay, was how bad the alignment camber was in the back! Changing an engine, transmission, and axles to completely different ones can cause that I hear
I should have the car back tomorrow afternoon, or possibly Monday, depending if their warehouse is open tomorrow or not. They are not sure if they took 4 days off or not for Thanksgiving.
No.......... I can not get it to run. It sputters, pops and dies. I have checked, and re-checked the plug wire routing, as well as mechanic for verification. They are indeed going to the correct cylinders. New wires & plugs (Properly gapped). Fuel pressure holds at 50 PSI.
In a couple weeks I am going to flat-bed the car to a specialized mechanic that I have known for years. His shop specializes in hard to track down problems, and completely custom installs. It is probably going to cost an arm and a leg, but I know that he will get to the bottom of it, and I will finally have a running car. I am just so over this car and all the problems, I just want it finished, and I no longer have an interest in working on it, engine wise.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-15-2016).]
WoW, I just finished reading the whole thread. Just WoW. I know exactly how you feel. I had similar problem with my OLD Fiero and finally threw in the towel on my 86 Turbo and started the whole fiasco again with an 88. This time around it's much better. I think you may have a ICM grounding. Do you have a scanner and FP gauge? It was weird how you had to ground the actual starter and not just the block and frame.
I know your so done right now but a few months off and slowly come back to it. Driving the 3800SC is OMG so worth all the agony and frustration if/when you git it running like it is suppose to.
[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 12-15-2016).]
Wow, I was suprised to get a notice that there was a post to this thread. Since being moved to the construction zone. There seems to be very little traffic in here compared to when the thread was in general chat
I am pretty close to having it running now. I am having some sensor problems. The computer is getting incorrect air intake temperature, and coolant temperature. This is making the engine run like crap, as it is taking those temperatures as accurate, and trying to adjust air flow and fuel to compensate.
Where did you move to in the area? I am in West Palm Beach (It's the WPB part of my scree name actually )
Looked through this whole thread. Very entertaining read for sure. Not sure how well I would have taken to some of your adversities but good on you for making it through them. Good to see you are still chipping away at it.
Yep, there certainly have been some adversities The swap has been 99% complete for a few months now. I have been unable to track down why the engine is fumbling so bad, and I have to feather the throttle constantly to keep her running.
I decided to take it to a local shop, Alternative Automotive, that is VERY good. The entire shop from the 5 mechanics, receptionist and manager are all related. This business has been in their family for 30 years. They specialize in unusual and hard to find problems. I rented a U-Haul trailer, and dropped it off at their shop on Friday after work.
They are closed on the weekends. I did not hear from them today, but I forced myself to not call and bug them, and give them some time to go through it.
I am sure its probably gonna cost an arm and a leg, but I am just done with messing with this car. It has been a 5 year long nightmare, that I just want to end!
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-01-2017).]
I can relate to the long road you have been on...BluDrm still is not finished because of other's BS and I started her before your current build. I wish you the best with getting her completed this summer.
Well I hope they don't keep you in suspense too long! I know how hard it can be to try and have patience in a case like this. Your commitment to your project (both financial & emotional) will undoubtedly be an inspiration to many others on this forum! I myself can't wait to get a glimpse of your success when I see you driving that beauty around town someday soon!!!
TXopie I didn't realize you started yours before mine.... So yea then, you know how long a road it has been!
I hope to be driving it around here soon as well! The last Fiero I happened on in South Florida was around 4 years ago, I got along side and realized it was Lou, another Fiero owner in Del Ray beach. Fiero spottings are few and FAR between around here ;(
I called the shop today at 4:30, figuring I had been good by lasting 2 whole work days without calling them. She explained her dad has been backed up, and will not get a chance to really delve into it until tomorrow.
Well I will have to be on the look out for Lou then because Delray isn't very far from me at all! I hope you have gotten some good news/feedback on your car's issue in the meanwhile. We are all still rooting for you John.
I got a call yesterday with an update. The mechanic started tracing the wires for the temperature sensor, as it is reading -38. If it was reading -40, it would be as if the sensor was unplugged, so there is an open circuit/break somewhere.
As he looked at the wire going to the sensor, it is the wrong color compared to the diagrams for an 04' GTP. He went to the ECU and could not find that colored wire at all. He opened the harness close to the sensor and discovered a barrel connector, where it switches from one color to another. So now he is in the process of trying to figure out what wire color they are on one end, and what color they are on the other end.
Having these different wire colors on each end really sucks! I will be paying for their Labor at $110 an hour just to be able to then test the harness
Didn't you buy that harness from someone?? They may know what color config they used.... just an idea.. hope ya get the old girl on the road ASAP... regards
It is a FieroFlyer wiring harness. He offered to look at it, and make any repairs for free. The problem is, the car is at the shop, and the labor cost to take the whole harness all off of the car, and ship it and the computer to Canada, and wait to get it back, and the labor to re-install it all again.... it would probably cost more than the shop just fixing everything.
The harness looks great from the outside. However once you start to take the tape off, it is a jumble of all different wires connected with barrel connectors EVERYWHERE. One would think that running a single wire from the computer to the destination would be the way to do it. Just about all the wires in this harness are cut and spliced back together once the tape and loom is removed.
The mechanic started to take the tape off of the wiring harness, and many of the wires that were attached by barrel crimp connectors, just came out of the connectors. They were not fastened / crimped well, and just the tension of taking the tape off the harness is pulling the wires out of the connectors. Next, he was able to find the yellow wire that is SUPPOSED to go to the temperature sensor, it was somehow routed to the A/C pressure switch.
The 2 wires that are supposed to be connected to the temperature switch are supposed to be yellow and..... damn, cant remember the other color. Anyhow, the yellow is the correct one on the computer end, just that it routed to the A/C pressure switch mid harness.
He is still trying to find where a couple of the other wires from the computer ended up. When he is done, he tells me he will solder and shrink tube the wires correctly.
After taking off the tape and wire loom, he found the yellow wire coming from the computer, meant to go to the temp sensor, it was going to the A/C pressure sensor instead:
Here are couple wires that came out of their barrel connectors when taking the tape off of the harness:
Again, I just can not seem to catch a break on this car! Any other person would purchase a harness, get the engine in, and start it up no problem. Not this F'n car! Brand new wiring harness is all screwed up and wires going to wrong sensors ect.....
AHe says he is not getting correct readings on a few more wires, so he is sure a few other wires are going to the wrong sensors from the computer.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 05-16-2017).]
Thank you Cliff! Though I do appreciate the move to the construction zone, the thread pretty much died when it got moved there. There just is, undeniably, much less traffic there.
Well, the car has been in the shop for 3 weeks now. This is not a problem, as for a slightly reduced labor rate, I told him to work on it in between other more pressing jobs. When I was there last week, it was all nestled into its own private corner of the shop. So at least it is inside all the time, and in very capable hands.
Glad to hear that your car is in safe capable hands. I am looking forward to hearing positive feedback from you on Alternative Automotive in West Palm Beach. I also can't wait for you to get your car back so I have another Fiero to hang with in the neighborhood. Crossing my fingers for you John!
It has been a little over 3 weeks now, and no more news. I refuse to call them, (no matter HOW much I am dying to do so!) and be one of those nagging people.... "is it done yet".
As mentioned, for a reduced labor rate, they are working on it in between other cars during their down time.
I can't wait to get it back, as a have gotten some new tech to install. an HUD speedometer, as well as a TPS system (Tire pressure monitoring). I will post more information on those when I get the car back and install them.
Ok, I will re-post this, it is what I said above, and in the previous couple pages in this thread.
I am DONE working on this car! After 5 years I am FAR beyond fed up. Anyone who has read this thread knows the 100 or so things that this car has thrown at me time and time again. I am on the 3rd engine in this car now, and still not able to drive it.
That being the fact, I said, I am done, and am just taking it to a shop to complete it. I would like to actually drive the car at some point, and not start all over again with yet ANOTHER repeat of a project (this time the computer and wiring harness).
I mean seriously..... The concensus is that: I should pull the entire wiring harness & computer, package it up, and send it back to Canada. Then wait for him to go through it, and ship it back. Then take the time to reinstall everything all over AGAIN, and just cross my fingers and HOPE that this was even the problem?
I also said I know it is going to cost me an arm and a leg, but I just don't care at this point, I want to actually be able to drive the car before I die!
When I heard that John was taking the route he chose for his harness issue I was pleased to hear it. After reading this entire thread and realizing what he has gone through, I thought about the nightmare I experienced with my own harness purchase. It was far and away the most agonizing part of my entire swap. I won't hijack this thread by expanding on this but anyone that frequents this forum should be well aware of the many issues that have been raised by some of the known harness builders. Without mentioning any names, I will say that had John decided to not go back to his harness builder and instead go with mine (another popular harness vendor here on PFF) I am fairly sure he would have suffered even more frustration and anger as a result. This route may cost more money but It is worth it in the end. You can't put a price on your sanity!
This is a very sad story (if not the saddest of all!) and I hope you get your car finally running soon. My point is that if the current harness has issues maybe your mechanic will uncover and fix some but not all and later something may come up. Hope not the case. There are great suppliers here. This swap is very very old and the harness is not rocket science. When I did mine I don't remember people complaining about harness quality but more about delivery and price. Again, just hope you can get your car running and enjoying it. Good luck.
Ok, I just got "the phone call". The car is finished! He rattled the keys on the phone for me, and talked me through the next minute or so. He explained he was walking over to the car, reaching in and sticking the key in the ignition, and turning the key, I could hear it turn over what seemed like a 1/4 of a second, and then..... a nice steady rumble
It turns out it was all pretty much the fault of the wiring harness. 3 wires were going to the incorrect places, and the pig tail for the temp sensor was bad, and was not making contact internally. This was sending all sorts of conflicting information to the to computer. -38 degrees from the temp sensor, and a reading of 350 or so degrees on the intake. This was causing the engine to run ridiculously rich. He told me the white smoke that I had when I was able to get it started off of starte fluid was not smoke, but fuel vapor. He said he had to replace the spark plugs. I explained that the plugs were brand new, and the car has never been driven, and only ran a total of probably 15 minutes combined. He explained that the plugs were shot from running so rich, and he had them there to show me when I pick the car up.
Total charge, all in for diagnostics, wiring harness disassembly, removing all the barrel connectors and soldering all connections, re-assembly and wrapping of the wiring harness, a new temp sensor pig tail, and 6 new spark plugs, $480.57. VERY reasonable in my book, if not just for the aggravation saved!
So, I just got off the phone with State Farm, and the car, as of now has full coverage. I am hitting the local tag office first thing in the morning to get a new tag. Then it is off to pick the car up tomorrow afternoon.
Originally posted by VanGTP5000: Now if only this rain would stop you will be in great shape
Tell me about it! He could not take the car out this afternoon for a test drive, as the streets are pretty much flooded around his shop.
Originally posted by wgpierce: Wow, absolutely fabulous! Did they fully open the harness and replace all the barrel connectors?
As far as I know, yes. He said he was going to. I will know more and get to look it over tomorrow afternoon.
I am not looking forward to the wait to get my tag tomorrow Our wonderful governor here in Florida decided to combine the drivers license offices, the tax collector and DMV's all into one building. This has happened all over the state. In my area, this put 4 Drivers license bureaus, 2 tax collectors and the tag office all into one building, with about 30% of the parking required. Most people park a 1/4 of a mile away in an Office Depot parking lot and huff it over. Last time I was there, I was in line for 6 hours, and that was after getting there 40 minutes before the doors opened! I could make an appointment, but it would be sometime in AUGUST!
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 06-06-2017).]