Okay here it goes. I am going to build up a 305 sbc on a budget of $2000.00 or less. I am going to keep it below the $2000.00 and do all the work out of my garage at my house. This way it will be kept within reach of your novice mechanic. This build is going to prove that the boat anchor 305 sbc will produce 300hp if not more on a cheap budget of $2000.00 or less. That price will include the engine and all parts, chemicals, and tool purchases for this build. There will be no labor, because I will do all of that and show you how to do it on your own in your own garage.

So here it goes:

sbc 305 HO engine with 86,000 miles $150.00







I removed the intake, heads, lifters, timing chain, and camshaft and cleaned up the engine with some brake clean and a wire brush. The brake clean was 2 cans for $4.00









I also picked up 2 cans of red engine paint at $4.99 per can and 1 can of anodized red engine paint for $6.99 and started to paint the engine.









Then I applied a couple coats of the anodized red paint to the engine and cleaned up the gasket mating surfaces with some of the brake clean and a rag. The piston tops even cleaned up real nice.

I have no idea why you don't just start with a 350 platform and just add GMPP Vortec Iron Heads, an intake, and a cam for 2 grand and have a car that could rev just the same as a 305 and yet be able to reliably tow the 305 and the car it was installed in.

I have ridden many times in my friends L69 5-speed Trans-Am and have been underwhelmed all around, especially after he changed from a 4 barrel spread bore to some other junk carb to improve gas mileage. My dads work van with a 5.7 and a th350 trans feels faster upon downshifting than the Firebird did rowing through the gears...

Edit: But, kudos for doing a walkthrough to educate the aspiring mechs...

[This message has been edited by nfswift (edited 11-20-2007).]

I'm confused

Spray the bejesus out of it and call it a day.

ok so i'm guessing this is 300 hp out of the car for under $2000 because Archies kit cost $950 for just the baisics or are you going to to show us how to produce our own master build kit for under $2000 as well as build a 305?

I would recommend pulling the pan and checking the piston skirts...

I beat the crap out of the 305 in my iroc/5 speed car (like doing 1st gear burnouts down the street bouncing off the 5500 rpm rev limiter - and replaced the tranny mount 6 times!). When I pulled it for the 350, there were 4 piston skirts broken off and resting in the pan. Engine still ran strong with these missing, but most likely was accelerating piston/bore wear. Another 305 I disassembled had 1 broken piston skirt in the pan too.

Ummmmm....he hasn't finished yet. Give the guy a chance. I don't think he said it was going to be a complete rebuild. Or did I miss that part? Let's see what he has in mind before everyone starts bashing.

------------------


2" Choptop
Shortened Front Bumper
Shortened Rear Bumper
10" Stretch
Dubs
350 V8 Conversion

quote Originally posted by SAFASTRO: Ummmmm....he hasn't finished yet. Give the guy a chance. I don't think he said it was going to be a complete rebuild. Or did I miss that part? Let's see what he has in mind before everyone starts bashing.

yes, but for what he's done sofar - dropping the pan, popping the pistons & cleaning the ring grooves - ESPECIALLY now that they are full of the wire wheeled carbon from the tops....maybe polishing the crank.....all free stuff. and no new rod bearings?? $2 x 8 well within budget.

give him a chance, he seems like he has planned it out for the most part and if anything we can help get him through it better (like suggesting new rod and main bearings and other free/cheap stuff while he is at it). if he can prove that you can get a nice SBC that doesn't have to be a $1000 350 with vortec heads, performace manifold and big carb with headers in a fiero for under $2000 in a normal mechanics garage that would open up a lot of new budget modders and maybe bring some more attention to fieros... for the better.

I am listening and looking foreword to seeing how he will accomplish this. and I will try to give as much advice as I can to help you through it. good luck prostreet.

------------------
1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30, Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street. PFF's fastest N/A 3.4dohc!!!!
FOR SALE - MAKE OFFER!
... ... !
355cid 400hp/tq N/A SBC, 4 bolt main
Nitrous Oxide: 1st stage - 125shot direct port. 2nd stage - 75shot plate.
87 GT, Cryo Treated 5-speed Getrag, Gr8grip LSD, Spec Stage 3 clutch.

quote Originally posted by SAFASTRO: Ummmmm....he hasn't finished yet. Give the guy a chance. I don't think he said it was going to be a complete rebuild. Or did I miss that part? Let's see what he has in mind before everyone starts bashing.

No one is bashing him, he's one of the good guys that knows what he's talking about in engine building.

We're greatly interested in wha he's doing.

Archie

may i suggest everyone read this thread instead? (same one...must have accidentally posted twice, but he did answer a few of your questions there)

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087713.html

quote Originally posted by Tiny: .....are you going to to show us how to produce our own master build kit.....?

This has already been done. It was called "sbc for under 4k" or something like that....it was by Archie.

And the whole issue with the 305...an engine is JUST an air pump. Heads, valve train and induction make all the difference not cubes.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-20-2007).]

I had a 305 in my Trans Am and it worked really well. I'm waiting to see the mods to see if he gets his 300 hp. I think he can. The only reason the 305 gets panned by some is that it is just easier to get hp out of the 350, so it boils down to "easier" vs. "challenging" maybe.

Arn

There are a few good threads on 305 builds here http://www.hotrodders.com/f...php?searchid=1421887

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 11-20-2007).]

What I read in the first post was He intends on building a 300 HP 305 for under $2000. (Not an engine swap) It's nice to see someone doing something different for a change.
Good Luck and keep the info coming.
Thanks Gary

quote Originally posted by Tiny: ok so i'm guessing this is 300 hp out of the car for under $2000 because Archies kit cost $950 for just the baisics or are you going to to show us how to produce our own master build kit for under $2000 as well as build a 305?

Okay, let me start out by saying this:

Tiny,
I am not going to show you how to produce a kit to install a sbc in a fiero. "That is Archies department and he has it pretty well handled." I am trying to show you how you can take a simple sbc and get 300 or more horse power out of it on a budget of $2000.00 or less, with you doing all the work at your home and not having to take the engine into a shop and pay all that extra labor.

Pyrthian,
I already did drop the pan and I gave it a quick look over. I did not mention anything about the lower half of the engine because, I did not get to that phase of the build yet. I was starting with the upper half of the engine and going to work my way down to the lower half. I have every intention of replacing rod and main bearings along with replacing the piston rings. I am also going to show how to hone each of the cylinders so the rings will have a good seal.

I am trying to explain this build so that people who do not have that much experience will be able to understand and do this on their own. That is why I did not disassemble the whole engine at one time. This way the less parts that are laying around, the less likely they are to get misplaced.

I was young and dumb at one time and I threw alot of parts at engines trying to make them faster, and I am trying to point out in this build, that with the appropriate parts and workmanship you can take that crappy 305 and make it a screamer for less than $2000.00 The key to this build is going to be the parts used that will give this engine the 300+ hp and a nice torque curve.

I also am not taking anybodys comments as Bashing. Everybody is entitled to there own opinions, and I respect that.

Craig

quote Originally posted by prostreet505: Okay, let me start out by saying this: Tiny, I am not going to show you how to produce a kit to install a sbc in a fiero. "That is Archies department and he has it pretty well handled." I am trying to show you how you can take a simple sbc and get 300 or more horse power out of it on a budget of $2000.00 or less, with you doing all the work at your home and not having to take the engine into a shop and pay all that extra labor. Craig

Sorry I guess some levels of sarcasm won't transfer in text format lol. I figured you were just doing an engine rebuild but wanted to be sure we weren't talking about with the instalation in th fiero.

I thought I would transfer this from the other double thread. This is the Primary Build Thread.


A new edelbrock performer intake and edelbrock 600 cfm carb. jeted for performance will be used along with an edelbrock 7102 camshaft and lifter kit, along with a gear drive timing setup by Jegs.

The heads are going to be reworked by porting out the runners and redoing the valve seats and seals.

So far the list is as follows:

150.00 (engine) Junk Yard
4.00 (brake clean) Checker Auto Parts
4.99 x2 (engine paint) Checker Auto Parts
6.99 (anodized paint) Checker Auto Parts
6.00 (valve grinding compound) Checker Auto Parts
121.99 (intake) Jegs part #350-2102
166.99 (cam kit) Jegs part #350-7102
252.99 (carburetor) Jegs part #350-1405
129.99 (gear drive) Jegs part #555-20311
170.00 (re-ring kit) G-Force Auto "includes piston rings, all bearings, and all gaskets"
40.00 (1.5 long slot rocker arms) G-Force Auto
20.00 (push rods std lenth) G-Force Auto
53.00 (valve springs) Jegs part number #350-5703
50.00 (valves) Racers Outlet
10.00 (carb fuel line) Checker Auto Parts
18.00 ( fuel line fuel psi gauge) Jegs part #555-41040
14.00 ( timing cover) Jegs part # 778-66151
20.00 (oil pan) Ebay
20.00 (valve covers) Jegs part # 555-50101
45.00 (Pro-Comp distributor) Gr8 Hot Rods
8.00 (Dist. dress up kit) White Performance
12.00 ( swivel T-Stat housing) White Performance
70.00 (throttle bracket) Jegs part # 555-15230
50.00 (roll of spark plug wire) Federated Auto Parts
10.00 (spark plug boots and connectors) Federated Auto Parts
40.00 (cylinder hone) Federated Auto Parts
60.00 (ridge reamer) Federated Auto Parts
150.00 (makita rotary tool)
50.00 (carbide burr set)
40.00 (port & polish kit)
10.00 (engine assembly lube & grease)

Grand Total:
$1808.93

More to come.....


Edit for price list.

[This message has been edited by prostreet505 (edited 02-25-2008).]

hey what is that thing in the back of your block on a stand?

looks like a small 2.8 aint it lol

didnt mean to interrupt

bump

dominik

I like the cam specs, although i would think you can get a bit more lift with some head work... have anything unique in mind there?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I like the cam specs, although i would think you can get a bit more lift with some head work... have anything unique in mind there?

Why r even posting here,,Like u really give a crap about this guy and his engine....The only reason ur here,is to wish this guy Fail's,so u can post stupid ass crap behind his back and laugh,,,,,


[quote="darkhorizon"]opened this thread expecting to see a fully built and balanced 383 stroker or something, but to my surprise its a guy bragging about how he got ripped off and bought a 305 for $150.

Its funny, Cletus even said himself he was as confused as I was.

quote Originally posted by Cletus: I'm confused

Who would ever pay money for a 305, my friend has been bugging me to pick it up next time I go to the scrap yard. It has like 60k miles on it. he swapped it out for a 350 with some camelback heads and put down 575WHP with a semi decent shot of juice. I made a joke last year that his 3rd gen could never beat me, but I think I am going to be eating my words soon.

NEED MORE TURBO.

O, my friend and I was joking that even if this dude could get 300 to the wheels for $2000, I bet I could do 400whp before I broke the $2000 mark with a 3800.[/quote]
OMG what a weasel

who are you and what are you talking about?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: who are you and what are you talking about?

He's referring to your post on the "other" forum.

I am just a guy thats getting sick and tired of all the B.S that spills out of you...


I cant read one thread on here without you complaining about some one choice of engine...

Dont take me as a fool,,i know people JUST LIKE YOU..

Holy crap where do i even start?.


U just love to rip on any one that just does not agree with ur so called Ultimate 3800sc engine...

U come on here andLIE through ur teeth and then go over to Real Fiero Tech and post a totally different thing..

90 % of every thread that u post on turns bad..

Just because some one does not choose ur style engine,,u just cant leave it alone..It burns u till no end ,to try to change their mind ,instead of helping them

quote Originally posted by ducattiman: Why r even posting here,,Like u really give a crap about this guy and his engine....The only reason ur here,is to wish this guy Fail's,so u can post stupid ass crap behind his back and laugh,,,,,

LOL!!!!

Ok i know this is slightly off topic here but where on the block does it say it was a 305 can it easly be seen while the motor is in the car I dont want to make the same mistake while i'm shopping for my 350

EDIT: Ok more on topic then the last couple post i guess

[This message has been edited by Tiny (edited 11-21-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Tiny: Ok i know this is slightly off topic here but where on the block does it say it was a 305 can it easly be seen while the motor is in the car I dont want to make the same mistake while i'm shopping for my 350 EDIT: Ok more on topic then the last couple post i guess

http://www.73-87.com/chevy_ids/blockid.htm

OMG,, yes please take the advice from this Hero


Quote


o, well its on fat farm.

http://www.fiero.com/forum/...087711.html#lastpost

some dude is trolling me right now saying I am "laughing behind his back", but thats not really it, I laugh at all v8 swappers equally.

Quote


Here is ur idea forum member,that is here to help others when in need


It just amazes me is How smart people really think they are

My post was very on topic, yet I got trolled by someone.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: My post was very on topic, yet I got trolled by someone.

Dark, its because your reputation precedes you. Almost every other single thread you've flamed the OP or whoever for the mere suggestion anything with more than 6 cylinders. To you it seems that a 3800 in front of a slush-o-matic is the only way to go. Period. You flame reputable people because you think you can do it cheaper yet in a different thread you make it clear that your quality would obviously be lacking. Basically you'd hack something together sell it for less, then flame someone who delivers a higher quality product for charging more. You flame and flame and flame anything Archie or V8 yet you want us to take you seriously in this thread? Especially when you go back to the world of bench racers and penis envy, aka realfierotech, and flame over there? Please. . . GTFO.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 11-21-2007).]

any update on thie build?


sorry trying to avoid a flame war here cause there is some very good information on this thred

prostreet505 check this out
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum5/HTML/000121.html
VBook will let you view your build thread without all of the flame wars.

I say "I like your cam" and I get this? I guess I should just stick to flaming.

quote Originally posted by ducattiman: 90 % of every thread that u post on turns bad..

Is that not because of people like you? You just started your little rant after he posted that he liked the guys cam. Wtf?

I will be honest, I dont quite agree with him starting with a 305, but If he has REASONS and information backing the build I might learn something. Usually if a question like this wouldnt be asked, the poster might not think to explain his reasons that I do look for in every thread. The problem is people like archie, loyde, and dan are people that never provide REAL information behind things in threads, just pictures of how cool it looks.

3 things I have been thinking about and wonder if you will address them in your build.

1: Windage tray, is it worth it? I have seen them from $30 to $100
2: Oil pan and gasket, I have had a bad leak at the front of my V8 for a long time. What gasket are you using and how do you plan on installing it
3: Dip stick, just ignore them no no I mean have you given any thought to moving it to the other side?

I have to change the oil pan on my car and have been thinking about installing a windage tray, the one I found that looks the best is $100 but it look to be the most effective.
The leak is my own fault, I got a thin gasket in the front and my after market timing chain cover needed the big one, I tried to cheat and paid for it.
The dipstick, I have been thinking about welding in a pipe on the other side so I can move the dip stick. That way checking the oil will be a easier.

Thanks for posting

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I say "I like your cam" and I get this? I guess I should just stick to flaming.

You should just stick to Real Fiero Losers.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I will be honest, I dont quite agree with him starting with a 305, but If he has REASONS and information backing the build I might learn something.

Did you even read his first post? His reasons are he wanted to do a 305 V-8 swap on a $2000 budget BECAUSE he was able to locate a 305 V-8 for only $150.00. You of all people should be able to appreciate someone wanting to do an engine swap on a budget. Why don't you agree with him about a 305? It was a very inexpensive engine and with the available aftermarket he should be able to make some decent power. Are you afraid if he completes his build within his budget and gets close to 300hp that your argument of a V-8 swap costing four times as much as a 3800SC swap will somehow damage your credibilty?

If you are really interested in watching this thread because you might learn something, Why go over to RFT and make posts about how he got ripped off buying a 305, that for the same cost you can build a 3800 that has 400whp for the same cost, and that you laugh at all the V-8 swappers??

BTW ~ After having just built a 3800SC and know what parts cost, You cannot buy a 3800SC and all the parts required to hit 400whp for $2000.


Now back to the topic at hand,

prostreet505, The swap is looking good. Keep up the good work with build thread details.
Jake, Why move the dipstick? Isn't it on the trunk side as the 305 motor sits now? On my ZZ4 it is on the trunk side as well and I have no problems checking oil.
Is yours on the firewall side?

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Jake, Why move the dipstick? Isn't it on the trunk side as the 305 motor sits now? On my ZZ4 it is on the trunk side as well and I have no problems checking oil. Is yours on the firewall side?

Mine is on the firewall side, 1970 block. I can install a flexable dipstick and make it easier to reach but it would be nice to just reach in and pull it out without having to dig for it.

OMG!!!!! WTF is wrong with some of you??

If someone is bashing me on another forum, saying I got SCREWED on this engine. I don't give a crap!!! That is not the case though. I could have sent the engine back to my buddies junk yard if I wanted to, but I have my reasons why I did not. To all of you that have to know why. I am in the process of buying another 84 fiero that I intend on using this engine in. The car is for my wife. I don't want a super high performance engine for her. I just want something that is going to produce a fair amount of hp and be reliable without overwelming her.

Dark,
I am not asking you to agree with what I am doing nor am I asking anybody to agree with what I am doing. Dark, I know you are a die hard 3800sc fan, and I respect that. I also am a fan of that engine, but it is not the right engine for what I have in mind for my wife. Everbody has their own thing when it comes to cars and engines, and I will not bash them no matter what they want to do, I will try and help them in any way I can through their build. I don't care if someone wanted to put in a 1.0 metro engine and mod it up. I would help them as much as I could. But, thank you for your comment on the cam, and I am planning on reworking the heads a little such as porting the intake and exhaust, redoing the valve seats and seals with a kit from JC Whitney. Remember I am doing this thread basicly for someone who has never done an engine tear down and wants to learn how they can accomplish this themselves. People feel better if they can say I did this on my own.

Tiny,
The markings you are looking for are on the left hand side of the block in the rear below the cylinder head. You might have to scrape the grease off of the block to see it though. It is hard to see if the engine is still in the car.

I have to go back and reread the questions through all the flaming garble and I will post the rest of the replies shortly.

Craig