Not EXACTLY, but close. The 3.4 DOHC, with the factory 4T60e gearing, using my stock dyno, has near perfect shift points from the factory, at just over 6500. But fact remains, that is close enough to redline. But yes, the DOHC does like the manuals.
4.9 auto vs 3.4 auto, the 4.9 will have a big advantage off the line, but from there on out every advantage is in the DOHC's hands. It would be a closer race, but in 1/4mi distance I think the 3.4 can overcome its poor off the line performance. And besides, a simple torque converter would change that race A LOT.
And Mizer, I gave ya a plus cuz I can't stand one more member getting banned from this stupid ratings thing.
I have to dissagree with everyone saying a 3.4 is dead even with a 4.9... A auto powered 3.4 is horrible (specially the one I test drove) It also could of been the fact the 3.4 was probally running behind a higher geared transmission ( I don't know)
When I drove this 3.4 it felt powerless compaired to the 4.9 I drove before I decided to go with a 4.9. At that time the test drive between them both was not fair I know. I loved the way the 3.4 sounded and looked in the engine bay of a fiero.... But at the time my fiero was a automatic and there was no way I was going to mate a 3.4dohc engine to it.
You can turbo charge a 3.4 and make it faster then a 4.9, But you can do the same to a 4.9, In the case of a 3.4 you would want a turbo to spool quicker to help it's torc, On the other hand you would need a slower spooling turbo to help the 4.9 in the higher RPM band.
In my opinion at the end of all the modifications the 4.9 will still beat the 3.4 hands down. A 4.9 really doesn't need much in mods to be competative. I also highly dislike the timming belts on a 3.4 dohc engine and the weight.
Anyway I have respect for all fieros with engine swaps , quad 4, 3800sc, SBC, LT1, LS1, 4.5, 4.9 ,ecotech, 3.4 pushrod, 3.4dohc, and any others if I missed any. The point to this is all of these swaps can be made to go fast, Some have advantages over others. The LS1 will have a huge advantage over all these swaps in my opinion.
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4.9 under construction... To lay the smack down on any mid 80s truck that stands in my way.
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-13-2005).]
The auto 3.4s are just as fast as the 5-speeds once they get going. Off the line is where they have most of their problems, but after that, they are pretty similiar. The shifts hurt autos more, but the 3.4 has surprising midrange to make up for it. The one you drove must have had problems.
A turbo 3.4 will walk all over a turbo 4.9, at half the boost. The 4 valve ehads eat up boost like you couldn't imagine. And in the case of a 3.4 I'd want the turbo to spool at 3500, holding to 7k. I don't turbocharge cars for low end torque, few people do. I bet both engines require a very similiar compressor, the 4.9 has more displacement, but the 3.4 has much more efficient heads.
There is no way a 4.9 will beat a 3.4 when both are highly modded. Displacement is key yes, but when your heads suck as much as the 4.9s do, you have a huge disadvantage. A fully ported/polished set of 4.9 heads with larger valves won't flow what our heads do stock. Why do you dislike the timing belts? Is $150 every 60,000 miles too much?
But, I am not here to argue 3.4 vs 4.9, I was simply here to express my disgust with everything MTA has laid his hands on. including the dimes.
I imagine a 4.9 will feel much faster than a 3.4. The 275lb/ft will put you back in your seat, and the sound will roar. The only problem with a stock 4.9 is that it runs out of breath, the torque falls off quickly as rpm's rise.
A 3.4 will feel much like a stock 2.8 in low rpm's. When it hits 3500rpm, it is then in its powerband and will pull hard to 6500rpm or so. It never gets above 220lb/ft, it doesn't really have that put you back in your seat feel. It holds its peak torque longer than a 4.9, and after 3500-4000rpms or so, the 3.4dohc has more torque than a 4.9.
The 3.4dohc is only as fast as a 4.9 in the 1/4 because it can use the shorter gears longer, and had more torque up high than a 4.9.
As far as modifications go to each motor, you can go as fast as your pocketbook. Most of the turbo 3.4's are using small innefficient turbos that do not suit the motor. With an GT35R and an intercooler, the 3.4 will easily make 300whp. Only problem with that is cost, most just use an old GN turbo and no intercooler.
Rockcrawl has showed that headwork, a cam and some roller rockers will get a 4.9 into the low 13s, which is very respectable. PJB has shown a turbo 4.9 can be in the low 12s, with a diesel turbo no less.
PJB has shown a turbo 4.9 can be in the low 12s, with a diesel turbo no less.
And I hope to better that time with it in my car, hehehe!!! Im not gonna run the intercooler he used at first I dont think. But later on Im gonna have the local tuning shop (Street & Strip Performance) switch it over to the cyclone program and have it dyno tuned with the intercooler. THEN I might crank up the boost for even more power.
They are expensive, but you should consider an air/water intercooler. PWR's barrel type intercoolers are probibly the easiest way to efficiently intercool in a fiero. Run a small rad up front with a couple liquid lines and a small pump, all of which I'm sure are included.
hmm seem to pick up more negs..... Oh well, I guess ppl rate others on opinions If that was the case I would throw a few negs at certain ppl, But I haven't done that and if I do I will atleast have a backbone to tell you if I rate you a neg
My opinion still stands and im entitled to have it.... Until I get a ride or test drive a 3.4dohc engine fiero that proves to be faster or feel faster then the 3.4 I drove........ my opinion will stay the same
Have a nice day.
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4.9 under construction... To lay the smack down on any mid 80s truck that stands in my way.
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-13-2005).]
hmm seem to pick up more negs..... Oh well, I guess ppl rate others on opinions If that was the case I would throw a few negs at certain ppl, But I haven't done that and if I do I will atleast have a backbone to tell you if I rate you a neg
Of course jumping in this thread to fling insults is only your opinion...
I have the air/water IC that PBJ was using. But since I'll only be running 7psi at first it will just be restricting the flow. But once I get it tuned to where I can crank up the boost Im gonna run the intercooler and plumb the coolant into the trunk via a water pump to a moroso cool can.
Of course jumping in this thread to fling insults is only your opinion...
The only person I have insulted was you and you deserved it. And didn't you call me a phag earlier in this thread ? I would think being called a phag would count as a insult.... two faced Hypocrite ? I guess that would be a insult as well, But my opinion of you is your a two faced hypocrite LOL. I only speak my mind and what I feel to bad some ppl arn't the same
keywords
phag, (Hypocrite), (Lazyone), (two faced), puppy dog.... A quick quiz LOL would some or all of these words count as a insult ?
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-13-2005).]
Speaking of hypocrites, when is your turbo going to be done? I bet you are going to be blowing through a carb as well? Your technical knowleage astounds me. Whats the hold up? You said a 2003 N* swap is a piece of cake and would be finished in no time. Why is a simple turbo taking so long? Don't have the funds? Waiting for MTA to learn how a turbo works?
Speaking of hypocrites, when is your turbo going to be done? I bet you are going to be blowing through a carb as well? Your technical knowleage astounds me. Whats the hold up? You said a 2003 N* swap is a piece of cake and would be finished in no time. Why is a simple turbo taking so long? Don't have the funds? Waiting for MTA to learn how a turbo works?
number 2 reason..... My car runs and im having a blast driving it around lets resay that word DRIVING, One day you will have the same fun in your fiero ( when your 90 years old maybe but never or less you will be driving your fiero one day or not... fuel won't be used anymore) Im also in another state visting family.
number 3 reason.... My god I love how this guy puts words in my mouth or maybe old age is sinking in....!!! I said if I was doing the same project as you I would have one done way before you..... SLOW BRO.
Number 4 you know nothing about me.... You all on the loserland board don't even know what I look like let alone how much money I make, since you want to know if im low on funds the answer to that question is no
number 5 Im 28 years old and have more years to learn about cars.... How old are you ?
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4.9 under construction... To lay the smack down on any mid 80s truck that stands in my way.
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-14-2005).]
number 2 reason..... My car runs and im having a blast driving it around lets resay that word DRIVING, One day you will have the same fun in your fiero
If your car runs, why haven't you run your car over at Orlando speedworld to get a timeslip and prove a dohc has nothing on you? Your butt dyno proves nothing.
If your car runs, why haven't you run your car over at Orlando speedworld to get a timeslip and prove a dohc has nothing on you? Your butt dyno proves nothing.
Because orlando speedway is almost a hour away and I would hate to get caught in that part of town after dark (just joking). The hours at my job sucks as well.... Just like the hours suck at your job
About the question you asked earlier about me being done with my turbo.... I want to document the install as well so it will help other carburated 4.9 owners.
your old age is starting to kick back in, or you don't know how to read.... When did I ever say a 3.4 dohc engine has nothing on me ? I said a 3.4dohc automatic did not feel as powerful as a 4.9 and gave many reasons why the 2 test drives was not fair.
I also gave my opinion that a modded 4.9 will win hands down over a modded 3.4dohc engine, You sure do alot of assuming others disagreed with me why you went to assuming again LOL.
welp time to go out and have fun fighting with you is boring now. I reccomend you do the same.... You know you got a 12 hour shift to work and a 50min commute to work.... So rest up
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4.9 under construction... To lay the smack down on any mid 80s truck that stands in my way.
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-14-2005).]
One of the many reasons my swap is taking so long is I'm having a hell of a time getting dimes to stick to my composite intake manifold. I've tried JB weld like MTA used, RTV sealant, contact cement... you name it I've tried it! Can you guys offer any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm putting on a 390cfm carb from a 1972 350 chevy and need to plug the injector holes. Will the carb be big enough for my Northstar?
One of the many reasons my swap is taking so long is I'm having a hell of a time getting dimes to stick to my composite intake manifold. I've tried JB weld like MTA used, RTV sealant, contact cement... you name it I've tried it! Can you guys offer any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm putting on a 390cfm carb from a 1972 350 chevy and need to plug the injector holes. Will the carb be big enough for my Northstar?
Thanks!!
Those suckers just won't stick!
. I think you should go with a $8000 dollar ECU instead of a $2600 dollar ECU , Then you can brag to everyone about shelling out mad money for yo swap
Doesn't that Bad mama jumma ECU use injectors for the holes ?
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-14-2005).]
I have to dissagree with everyone saying a 3.4 is dead even with a 4.9... A auto powered 3.4 is horrible (specially the one I test drove) It also could of been the fact the 3.4 was probally running behind a higher geared transmission ( I don't know)
When I drove this 3.4 it felt powerless compaired to the 4.9 I drove before I decided to go with a 4.9. At that time the test drive between them both was not fair I know. I loved the way the 3.4 sounded and looked in the engine bay of a fiero.... But at the time my fiero was a automatic and there was no way I was going to mate a 3.4dohc engine to it.
You can turbo charge a 3.4 and make it faster then a 4.9, But you can do the same to a 4.9, In the case of a 3.4 you would want a turbo to spool quicker to help it's torc, On the other hand you would need a slower spooling turbo to help the 4.9 in the higher RPM band.
In my opinion at the end of all the modifications the 4.9 will still beat the 3.4 hands down. A 4.9 really doesn't need much in mods to be competative. I also highly dislike the timming belts on a 3.4 dohc engine and the weight.
quote
Originally posted by 86fieroEarl:
When did I ever say a 3.4 dohc engine has nothing on me ?
One of the many reasons my swap is taking so long is I'm having a hell of a time getting dimes to stick to my composite intake manifold. I've tried JB weld like MTA used, RTV sealant, contact cement... you name it I've tried it! Can you guys offer any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm putting on a 390cfm carb from a 1972 350 chevy and need to plug the injector holes. Will the carb be big enough for my Northstar?
Well, I'd at least pull out the Mercury dimes for certain. Everyone knows you can only use Mercury head dimes in Mercury's.
And I would pull out those FDR dimes made before 1965... they are silver. But the others? sure! The nickel/copper alloy dimes are quite strong and resist tarnishing...
For a Pontiac, I would use Buffalo nickels. The Pontiac being an northern Indian tribe, the Buffalo nickels have an Indian warrior on them. Maybe you can use an Indian head penny too...
Why go Blow-Thru when there is GM factory turbo intake set-up to add a turbo and a 4-bbl carb that is a draw thru style and designed for a 4.9L engine already? (Just needs the base plate slightly modded to fit the Cadillac V-8) Parts are not hard to find. As a matter of fact I just helped a friend set up one in his S-10 truck. He dropped in a 4.9L and added the turbo, should have it completed in the next 2-3 weeks.
I believe it.. my 4.3 CPI natrually asperated ran constant 14.4s all day long I had a best ever of 14.02 on race gas, more timing, cool day etc and I was doing everything right.
it would take about 225 hp to do that under similar conditions and lots of bottom end torque my engine was rated at 200hp and 260 ftlbs from the factory... i figure i had maybe 210 hp and a good day
------------------ 84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM with Moates adapter 50lb injectors, 3 bar map sens, T04B H3 Turbo www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Why go Blow-Thru when there is GM factory turbo intake set-up to add a turbo and a 4-bbl carb that is a draw thru style and designed for a 4.9L engine already? (Just needs the base plate slightly modded to fit the Cadillac V-8) Parts are not hard to find. As a matter of fact I just helped a friend set up one in his S-10 truck. He dropped in a 4.9L and added the turbo, should have it completed in the next 2-3 weeks.
I never thought of doing a 4bbl carb that is draw thru style, If you don't mind can you pm me or email me with some pics of your friends setup ?
Originally posted by crzyone: As far as modifications go to each motor, you can go as fast as your pocketbook. Most of the turbo 3.4's are using small innefficient turbos that do not suit the motor. With an GT35R and an intercooler, the 3.4 will easily make 300whp. Only problem with that is cost, most just use an old GN turbo and no intercooler.
oh just wait -- T04E 60 trim with an intercooler rated for 800hp.. hoping to drive it to the MAFOA gettysburg show
Sounds like a sweet setup. Need to get a few well done 3.4tdc turbo's on the dyno and 1/4 mile list. I will be happy if I can pull off a low 13 with my stock N*, never been down a 1/4 mile before, should be fun.
First of all you know nothing about that transaction and that is what he told you how ever what he failed to tell you is that drove the car and was happy and was amazed how fast it was, he got a car that was running but needed final tuning which I decided to help him with if it had a problem .On taking the car home he changed the wires and instead of wiring up the wires in the right firing order he wired it up 12345678 in block order that is when the the injector plugs blew out and the distributor came apart.
What he never told you was the engine had a bad head gasket when I got it running which I notified him about and I agreed to fix it for him for $200 in labor which I did . What was never told is he decided to change to carb and he purchased his parts from Summit on his credit cards , What was never told is the amount I initially charged him how much did I receive . What he never told you when he came to my house he was treated good even had some food and asked for seconds (barbecue chicken) saying how it was the beast it tasted. What he never told you was when he came to pick up the car he wanted to take it out side before he paid me until I told him no pay first then take the car ..we are not as stupid and uneducated as you believe
Opened up my house to him and for him to say I screwed him over that is sad but life goes on with out regrets.
Among the payment I got was a flat screen monitor the first one died the second was returned elsewhere and other things that was received (that part I will leave alone) as there are legal ramification but all I had to do is pick up the phone and make a call,so he is not particularly truthful in his accusations.
He asked me to come down to look at the car after they were trying to get it started and I told him it would not be possible to go that far just bring it back up which he never did , that is when he posted that I did shoddy work on his car .The injector holes are generally plugged up in case you would like to go back to fuel injection the plugs could be easily removed and install the injectors and all the swaps I have done this method has never failed but if the car is firing 12345678 it only proves he did not know what he was doing he called me and I corrected him how to rewire it and that is when he got it running I even called his cell # to ask him why he was talking that trash he blocked my number I do have his work # though and what if I decided to spill the beans.
Since you know more fill me in so talk all you want it means nothing and you will always be a troll causing trouble.
Ok enough everyone let's just cut the crap and grow up (me included) If anyone reading would guess all of our ages they would think we were little kids ( yes im talking about everyone involved in this little flame fest) We are all adults here And should start acting like it.
I will also like to apoligize to the whole fiero community for stooping to this level of childishness, This type of childish behavior means we have no respect for our fiero forum... I would also like to apoligize to cliffpennock.
Im 28 years old and acting like a little preschooler
[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 08-15-2005).]
You don't need to. Anyone who would JB Weld dimes to an intake manifold and call them "injector plugs" is a shade tree jackleg that doesn't know how to do much more than ghetto-rig a car.
If he's as skilled as he would have us believe, why did he use dimes to plug the injector holes? 1. Either he doesn't know any better, which speaks volumes about his overall skill, or... 2. He is as good of a mechanic as he would have us believe, and just didn't give a damn because it wasn't his car.
Either way, you paid good money for a quality swap and got screwed. Whether it was because of MTA's ignorance or apathy really doesn't matter. And ther ain't no barbeque chicken good enough to make up for that.
Well, I'd like to hear the whole story. It would serve as a warning to those that would take on a project that is over their heads and try and pass off shadey work.
Heh, Earl. I just read on your forum you think I'm over 40? I'm 24 idiot!! Now I understand all the old man comments you were making. Don't you feel like an ass.
spewing, kind of person he is.
