About 4 years ago I was making roughly $35000 yearly (close to the $18 hour job). I remember I had 2 cars, 1 van, rented a decent sized house (2500 sq ft.), paid my own utilities, auto insurance, groceries, blah, blah...all my own living expenses, took care of 2 dogs, vet visits, blah blah. I was saving putting roughly $300 per month into savings at the time (average for 1999 to 2000, I checked my register today when I went home for lunch), not to mention 6% of my salary into a 401k. I did it on $18 an hour and lived very comfortably.
Try that now. 4 years ago gas was only 2/3 the price of today if not less, housing has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales, which means rent has gone up to take advantage of the rising cost of houses and condos, food prices are out of control (dairy, beef, produce, etc.), insurance costs have risen due in part to 9/11 and also due to inflation and price gouging, medical and prescription costs have steadily increased, and lets not forget salaries are way down historically.
Maybe you were doing good on $18 an hour then, but try that now and see where you stand. I make more than that and watch my savings drop a steady couple of hundred every single month. I haven't taken a vacation in over a year. My salary was raised 5% this year AFTER my company released the wage freeze 4 months after I was supposed to receive my yearly raise. That means not only did I lose 4 months of my raise, but I was living under the rate of inflation for those 4 months. Hospitals are not doing well. And let me tell you, healthcare is a perfect example of a bad economy because those people with either a cough or a sprained ankle aren't coming in because they have no insurance, and those that do have insurance aren't coming because of the $500 deductible they have to pay for outpatient surgery or emergency room visits.
This country is in poor shape fiscally and it shows. Maybe you guys that are doing really well are enjoying the spoils of war while the rest of us wait for the economy to do more than moderately hiccup a few shitty menial jobs.
edit: made more legible
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-08-2004).]
Try that now. 4 years ago gas was only 2/3 the price of today if not less, housing has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales, which means rent has gone up to take advantage of the rising cost of houses and condos, food prices are out of control (dairy, beef, produce, etc.), insurance costs have risen due in part to 9/11 and also due to inflation and price gouging, medical and prescription costs have steadily increased, and lets not forget salaries are way down historically. Maybe you were doing good on $18 an hour then, but try that now and see where you stand. I make more than that and watch my savings drop a steady couple of hundred every single month. I haven't taken a vacation in over a year. My salary was raised 5% this year after my company finally released the wage freeze 4 months after I was supposed to receive my yearly raise. And let me tell you, healthcare is a perfect example of a bad economy because those people with cough and a sprained ankle aren't coming in because they have no insurance, and those that do have insurance aren't coming because of the $500 deductible they have to pay for outpatient surgery or emergency room visits.
This country is in poor shape fiscally and it shows. Maybe you guys that are doing really well enjoying the spoils of war while the rest of us wait for the economy to do more than moderately hiccup a few shitty menial jobs.
Originally posted by Boondawg: Kindda like a Wife..................
No money. No sex. Talks your ear off.
Screw you man.. I aint wearin no dress, not for you or any other kinky biotch.
Ya know that reminds me of a story. There was a guy riding a horse drawn cart down the street and a trooper pulls him over and starts giving the guy a load of crap about having a cart on a highway.
Soon flies began to swarm annoyingly around the officers head and he began to swat at them. Finally the officer exclaims "Damn!! what the hell kind of flies are they?" The man said horse ass flies. The officer glaired at him and said "what does that mean?" The man said "well sir ya see they like to fly around a horses ass and thats why they are called horse ass flies" The officer looked very sternly at the man and said "are you calling me a horses ass?" The man said "no sir but seems to me the flies don't know any different."
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 06-08-2004).]
Try that now. 4 years ago gas was only 2/3 the price of today if not less, housing has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales, which means rent has gone up to take advantage of the rising cost of houses and condos, food prices are out of control (dairy, beef, produce, etc.), insurance costs have risen due in part to 9/11 and also due to inflation and price gouging, medical and prescription costs have steadily increased, and lets not forget salaries are way down historically.
Maybe you were doing good on $18 an hour then, but try that now and see where you stand. I make more than that and watch my savings drop a steady couple of hundred every single month. I haven't taken a vacation in over a year. My salary was raised 5% this year AFTER my company released the wage freeze 4 months after I was supposed to receive my yearly raise. That means not only did I lose 4 months of my raise, but I was living under the rate of inflation for those 4 months. Hospitals are not doing well. And let me tell you, healthcare is a perfect example of a bad economy because those people with either a cough or a sprained ankle aren't coming in because they have no insurance, and those that do have insurance aren't coming because of the $500 deductible they have to pay for outpatient surgery or emergency room visits.
This country is in poor shape fiscally and it shows. Maybe you guys that are doing really well are enjoying the spoils of war while the rest of us wait for the economy to do more than moderately hiccup a few shitty menial jobs.
edit: made more legible
wasn't but a couple years ago i would make 300 a day min and most of the time a lot more.things are definetly getting worse thats why i'm going to get my own affairs in safer positions.I personally have not had a profitable month for about 6 months.But when times were good i set up my ducks so i can shoot them when i get hungry.Who would care about my troubles if i didn't. If i enjoy any spoils of war it's is cause i fought that war and lived.
I wasn't planning on responding but you guys are just way too funny. The fact is we're talking with a total idiot. Only way to actually communicate with 84Bill is to put your head up your ass like him, then you can talk with him on the same level. Don't expect him to respond to many of your questions. He usually can't give a straight answer because it would make him look like more of an idiot...notice I said "more". He doesn't want to work but it's all the systems fault..blah, blah, blah.
Wow Bill, I actually thought you received money from the govt. So all you get is food stamps? So what do you do? Live with mommy and daddy from what I remember, but maybe I'm wrong. Is it just a cardboard house with a computer inside? I think there are other reasons you don't have kids besides your reference to your wife being "shortsided". She probably has a very good reason to have them...it's pretty obvious when one learns about you on here. Why would she want to leave them with a bum having no job and no ambition?...now that's a role model
One thing, I never said I was smarter than you..do you think I'm implying that or something?. Do you feel threatened when I reply in you posts? So you never finished 11th grade, doesn't mean a thing to me. One thing it does say though is that your claim to having spent thousands on college (made in another post, I'll find it if you like, I'm sure you'll deny it) is probably crap. Every college I can think of doesn't accept people who didn't finish highschool, but who knows. Just like everyone else, the more I read your posts, the more obvious it becomes that you are a total loser.
The only thing owed to a deadbeat like you is a swift kick in the ass. The system owes you nothing. Oh sure it gives you something and you do follow by the rules, but does that make it right? Lazy ass people only make this place worse. It would be so nice if you would just take your laziness somewhere else and stop being a leach. Our country doesn't need you and your lazy ass.
alright, I'm out of here for good, don't forget to post again, we all know you need the last word to feel right, it's OK, I understand maybe add something like this in the last post of this thread: "the opposition grows silent", then you can feel like you've won.
later deadbeat Dave
THANK YOU.
quote
Originally posted by 84Bill
An idiot who knows how to push the buttons of ego maniacs. The frikin swelled heads in this room are enough to make me barf my guts out for lack of a better word.
Bite my arse you nazi jackasses.
Glad you're coming to terms with the fact that you're an idiot. When you barf, please aim for your computer so we don't have to listen to your desperate attempts to lash out at us anymore (referring to the "nazi jackasses" comment).
What was the point of that little story you decided to share with us? Please explain the point you were trying to make, because the connection to the conversation was far to vague for any normal person to grasp.
Boondawg and ditch - Thanks for the laughs, that was damn funny.
Here's something just for Bill. Its one of my favorite songs, and now it makes me think of him
"Get Over It" by The Eagles Hell Freezes Over album
I turn on the tube and what do I see A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me" They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves Victim of this, victim of that Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat
Get over it Get over it All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit Get over it, get over it
You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash But you might feel better if I gave you some cash The more I think about it, Old Billy was right Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight You don't want to work, you want to live like a king But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing
Get over it Get over it If you don't want to play, then you might as well split Get over it, Get over it
It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak You're makin' the most of your losin' streak Some call it sick, but I call it weak
You drag it around like a ball and chain You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down Complain about the present and blame it on the past I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass
Get over it Get over it All this bitchin' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit Get over it, get over it
Get over it Get over it It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit Get over it, get over it
Try that now. 4 years ago gas was only 2/3 the price of today if not less, housing has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales, which means rent has gone up to take advantage of the rising cost of houses and condos,
Convenient that you left out intereste rates which are currently at all time lows actually making housing for first time buyers some of the most affordable in history. That's also a component why, in some areas, housing prices have gone up, because of the demand of buyers. It's a market driven world.
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
food prices are out of control (dairy, beef, produce, etc.),
Food prices are out of control!?!?!? Get a grip. Let's look at reality, shall we. From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Bread Jan 2000, $.907 per loaf, Jan 2004 $.946 per loaf. A whopping 4.3% increase in 4 years, or a tad over 1% per year
Hamburger Jan 2000, $1.483/lb, Jan 2004 $2.260 per pound. Beef has gone up a lot, 52%, in that period, but since Jan. it's also fallen back to $2.089/lb so it's declined about 10% since the first of the year. Jan 2000 was also a time of very low beef prices.
Eggs Jan 2000, $.975/doz, Jan 2004, $1.573/doz. Again, an increase. 62% in fact. It's also come down since Jan.
Milk Jan 2000, $2.785/gal, Jan 2004, $2.879/ gal. Wow, a whole 3.4% increase, 8/10 of 1% per year
Chicken Jan 2000, $1.059/lb, Jan 2004 $1.062/lb. Another massive increase of .28% or .07 (7/100) of 1% per year.
Lettuce Jan 2000, $.748/lb, Jan 2004 $.876/lb. Wow, another increase of 17% or 4.25%/year
Wine (I included this since it seems to be a favorite of liberals and is probably where you get the impression food prices are out of control) Jan 2000, $5.458/L, Jan 2004 $6.737/L. A 23% increase or a little less than 6%/year.
The only thing that's really gone up significantly are eggs and beef, most other prices have stayed virtually the same.
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
insurance costs have risen due in part to 9/11 and also due to inflation and price gouging, medical and prescription costs have steadily increased, and lets not forget salaries are way down historically.
Insurance costs HAVE gone up due to 9/11 but also a major component in the increase is interest rates being so low. Insurance companies are very conservative and as such invest policy premiums conservatively. They are requred by law to keep a certain amount available, in reserve, to pay claims. When their investments can't return a high rate for them, they have to make up the difference somewhere and the only place they can make money other than their investments is to increase premiums. It's not complicated, but a lot of people don't realize how insurance companies actually make their money.
As far as your claim of salaries being "way down historically", how about a little documentation with that claim? According to the BLS again, the Employment Compensation Index, which includes all of the compensation that is given an employee such as insurance, time off, taxes, etc., etc., has gone from 146.4 in the first quarter of 2000 to 170.8 in the first quarter of 2004. That's an increase of 16.6%, or about 4.2% per year. Show me some documentation of how wages are "way down historically" when I can show you documentation that it's costing employers more now, than ever, to employee someone.
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
Maybe you were doing good on $18 an hour then, but try that now and see where you stand. I make more than that and watch my savings drop a steady couple of hundred every single month. I haven't taken a vacation in over a year. My salary was raised 5% this year AFTER my company released the wage freeze 4 months after I was supposed to receive my yearly raise. That means not only did I lose 4 months of my raise, but I was living under the rate of inflation for those 4 months. Hospitals are not doing well. And let me tell you, healthcare is a perfect example of a bad economy because those people with either a cough or a sprained ankle aren't coming in because they have no insurance, and those that do have insurance aren't coming because of the $500 deductible they have to pay for outpatient surgery or emergency room visits.
You were living under a very historically low rate of inflation and have been for the last several years. Your 5% raise was more than the rate of inflation for last year.
Hospitals are not doing well in some areas because they are poorly managed. We have one here that has a very low bed count. In fact if it weren't for a floor that is, in effect, a rest home, it would probably close. They just passed and are going to build a major expansion of the hospital. That's sheer lunacy! The reason the bed count is low is because it cannot, and never will, be able to compete with a much larger, better equipped, and better staffed hospital 35 miles away. The local hospital is basically a Triage unit and that's all it ever will be. Unfortunately, this is pretty typical in the health care industry. They think new buildings and new machines are the answer to their problems and they're not.
BTW-I grew up without going to a doctor or hospital for sprained ankles and a cough. You just pointed out another reason that health insurance is so high. Health insurance is not universal health care. It wasn't designed to be and never will be unless the government (which is the taxpayers) forces them to be.
Health insurance used to be like car insurance or house insurance. If you had a major catastrophe, like a tornado or hailstorm that wrecks your roof, you know it costs you your deductible and that's it. The major expenses, the ones that could break you, are covered by insurance. Somewhere along the line we got the notion that insurance should pay every penny of everything that goes wrong in our lives. Well, if that's what you want, have at it and get the $25 deductibles and so on, just stop whining about what the premiums cost you.
Here's a newsflash for you..........you don't NEED to see a doctor for every cough and sprained ankle. Unfortunately, you see people with just that in the EMERGENCY ROOMS! And we just can't figure out why health insurance costs so much...........
One suggestion, take the $1,000 deduct insurance, put $75/mo in a savings account, and you'll be money ahead 95 times out of 100.
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
This country is in poor shape fiscally and it shows. Maybe you guys that are doing really well are enjoying the spoils of war while the rest of us wait for the economy to do more than moderately hiccup a few shitty menial jobs.
I think you were one of those that said that back when President Bush was predicting 1.000,000 new jobs before next fall that he was an idiot. We're now at something like 700,000 in 4 months or less. Your track record on what the economy is historically and what it will be in the future isn't looking so good from where I sit.
Here's something just for Bill. Its one of my favorite songs, and now it makes me think of him
"Get Over It" by The Eagles Hell Freezes Over album
I turn on the tube and what do I see A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me" They point their crooked little fingers ar everybody else Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves Victim of this, victim of that Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat
Get over it
thanks a lot scott.Now i will forever relate this song to a stupid thread. hehe GET OVER IT MYSELF
Originally posted by jstricker:Convenient that you left out intereste rates which are currently at all time lows actually making housing for first time buyers some of the most affordable in history. That's also a component why, in some areas, housing prices have gone up, because of the demand of buyers. It's a market driven world.
First of all spanky, housing is not affordable for working families or those that need them it is affordable for the "affluent".
"The Center for Housing Policy says home ownership rates for low- and moderate-income families with children have declined since the late 1970s, even though the overall rate of home ownership in the country has risen. It says a study suggests incomes for some working families can't keep up with soaring home prices. The center's research director says builders have tended to focus on putting up bigger homes geared toward more affluent buyers. "
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:Food prices are out of control!?!?!? Get a grip. Let's look at reality, shall we.
Let me get this straight, I used beef, produce, and dairy costs as an example of out of control food prices. And every single one of those IS way above the historic average ,then you try to somehow make that look like a lie? No sirree, its the truth whether you like it or not, and I bet if you took an average of overall grocery products you would have a large increase, especially on those that you buy often like beef, produce, and dairy.
"A trip to the grocery store is getting more expensive. Prices have been rising sharply in recent months for all kinds of basics, including milk, meat, eggs, oil and produce, giving supermarket shoppers their first taste of serious food price inflation in years."
quote
Originally posted by jstricker: Insurance costs HAVE gone up due to 9/11 but also a major component in the increase is interest rates being so low.
Whats your point? A price spike is still a price spike.
quote
Originally posted by jstricker: As far as your claim of salaries being "way down historically", how about a little documentation with that claim?
OK I'll concede that may be a questionable statement, but I will say that for ME and the AVERAGE american, income levels are lower than ever. And I think I'll take this little opportunity to point that out.
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_inequality_inequality "The Economic Policy Institute and the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities recently published a joint report called Pulling Apart: A State-by-State Analysis of Income Trends (Bernstein et al. 2000), which showed that income inequality-the gap between those at the top, middle, and bottom of the income scale-has grown significantly throughout the past two decades and remains higher than at any other time in the post-war era. "
"In 1997, the top 20 percent owned over 84 percent of all wealth. In fact, the top 1 percent had more wealth than all people in the bottom 90 percent. In 1965, ceos made approximately 44 times the salary of the average factory worker. Today it is 500 times. If factory workers had received pay raises comparable to those of their ceos between 1980 and 1995, they would have earned $90,000 a year by 1995, and the minimum-wage worker would have earned $39,000 a year. "
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:You were living under a very historically low rate of inflation and have been for the last several years. Your 5% raise was more than the rate of inflation for last year.
Hmmmm? Lets see. So if the rate of inflation is 3% than that means I was living under the rate of inflation for 4 months before I got my raise. But lets explore that farther and ask the question what is the rate of inflation now with gas prices being the highest what EVER!
"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - The U.S. is supposed to be in a low-inflation environment, but my experience doesn't reflect that. Gas prices are high, home prices are out of sight, medical expenses are rising...I just don't see that inflation is all that low. What gives?
Is Inflation Making a Comeback? Many goods are climbing in price, but the feds say inflation is in check (just 2.5% annually over the past 5 years and just 1.2% over the past year). Here's how much more (or less) we're paying for some selected items.
Item 5-Year Price Increase Average Annual Change Gasoline 51% 8.5% Eggs 43% 7.4% Cable TV 41% 6.9% Movie Ticket 29% 5.2% Medical Care 23% 4.3% Housing Costs 14.7% 2.8% Chicken -1% -0.2% Clothing -9% -1.7% Coffee -16% -3.6%
Sources: BLS, Motion Picture Association of America, and Associated Press
There does seem to be a bit of a disconnect here. Over the past year we've had Fed chairman Alan Greenspan and other Fed governors warning about the danger of falling prices -- deflation -- while many of us feel that when it comes to buying a house, filling our gas tanks and buying other necessities that rising prices -- inflation -- is the real problem.
So how does one square the Bureau of Labor Statistics' official inflation statistic, which show inflation as low and under control, with the feeling on the part of many Americas that the prices they pay in the real world are rising at an accelerating pace?
To get data for those categories, BLS collects prices for goods and services from some 23,000 companies as well as 50,000 landlords and tenants (to calculate rents, which are used for shelter costs) in 87 urban areas. That leaves a lot of room for divergence in the case of individual's experience, not to mention variation from city to city and region to region.
For example, for the year ended in February, the most common index of inflation -- the CPI for urban consumers -- rose 1.7 percent. But if you exclude the volatile food and energy components, which economists often do to arrive at "core" inflation, that rate of increase drops to 1.2 percent. The more of your budget that's devoted to these two items, the higher inflation will seem to you."
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Hospitals are not doing well in some areas because they are poorly managed.
Really? Care to back that up with facts? I work at one of New Englands TOP hospitals that provides services that in some cases NO ONE in the world can provide. So obviously if the bed count is down here as well, its not because of bad management, but in reality an industry wide problem related to the state of the economy in general.
I used sprained ankle and cough as examples of less serious reasons to visit the hospital but still serious nonetheless.
"WASHINGTON — Soaring demand and shrinking budgets are putting intense stress on the nation's vast non-profit sector — an intricate web of hospitals, schools, social service agencies, museums and other organizations that make up about 6% of the economy. Many of the problems stem directly from the recession, which forced millions of unemployed and uninsured to turn to charity. But the situation could get worse even if the economic rebound continues. "
Go and read on if you like.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2004).]
>>>>>>>>>>First of all spanky, housing is not affordable for working families or those that need them it is affordable for the "affluent".
Wow, what a shock, name calling from a supposed open minded liberal. Color me surprised (not).
So only "working class families" need homes, huh?
Care to put a few things in context? From your link:
"It says a study suggests incomes for some working families can't keep up with soaring home prices. The center's research director says builders have tended to focus on putting up bigger homes geared toward more affluent buyers. "
Hey, another newsflash for you, not EVERY working family can or ever will be able to afford their own home. That has always been the case and, most likely, always will be. Note the report says "SOME WORKING FAMILIES CAN'T KEEP UP.........." Wow, what a shock.
Now tell me how what you quoted as "proof" backs up your comment of "has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales". Maybe I just don't understand what you're trying to say with that comment.
Also from the link "In 1978, the median price for a new home was slightly less than $56,000. In 2001, the median price was $175,000. " and "builders have tended to focus on putting up bigger homes geared toward more affluent buyers. " First off, any manufacturer, if they want to stay in business, builds what is selling and they can make the most money on. Right now, High End houses sell. That pushes up the MEDIAN price even more than normal inflation. It doesn't mean that there aren't inexpensive homes for sale or even new ones being built. Neighbor here just built a really nice, new home for $118K, land included. Want a starter home for $50K or less, come take a Look.
Of course, they wouldn't be in the prime real estate locations like back east, so obviously they don't count, right? If it's not in your world, it doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Let me get this straight, I used beef, produce, and dairy costs as an example of out of control food prices. And every single one of those IS way above the historic average ,then you try to somehow make that look like a lie? No sirree, its the truth whether you like it or not, and I bet if you took an average of overall grocery products you would have a large increase, especially on those that you buy often like beef, produce, and dairy.
Here's some facts for you. In '97, the US Consumer spent $715 BILLION for food and another $95 BILLION for alcoholic beverages. Over 13% of what was spent on food was spent on booze. Out of the $715 billion, 45% was spent on meals away from home and snacks. Want to save some money? Cut out the booze and eat at home once in a while.
From the report "Although food spending has increased considerably over the years, the increase has not matched the gain in disposable income. As a result, the percentage of income spent for food has declined. Food expenditures by families and individuals were 13.8 percent of disposable personal income in 1970, compared with 13.4 percent in 1980 and 10.7 percent in 1997 (fig. 29, table 99). The decline is the direct result of the income-inelastic nature of the aggregate demand for food: as income rises, the proportion spent for food declines."
Read that carefully. You can't dispute the facts. As income rises faster than food prices, the demand for food is relatively inelastic so the % spent on food goes down. It's not that hard to figure out if you think about it.
From your post, trying to validate your feelings:
Item 5-Year Price Increase Average Annual Change Gasoline 51% 8.5% Eggs 43% 7.4% Cable TV 41% 6.9% Movie Ticket 29% 5.2% Medical Care 23% 4.3% Housing Costs 14.7% 2.8% Chicken -1% -0.2% Clothing -9% -1.7% Coffee -16% -3.6%
Now this is getting ridiculous. You're honestly trying to say that you're including cable TV and movie tickets as things that are necessities of life? If they are, then we have truly become a spoiled nation. Your quoted table even shows housing costs rising at an inflation rate of less than 3%. Clothing declined in price.
In your hospital example, you didn't even begin to address my points (not that I'm surprised). I did back it up with facts, an example at my local hospital and one I've seen repeated over and over again. You've seen it too, if you'll take off the "it's the government's (neo-con/Bush anyway) fault" blinders.
I'll make you even madder. Do you know what REALLY is wrecking the health care system? The same thing that's screwing up our federal Govt. fiscal policy. We don't actually, physically, spend the money.
When we have our taxes witheld, we never see that money. IF for one year, we had to actually WRITE the government back a check every pay period for all that's witheld now, there would be a tax revolt almost immediately because NOW we'd have OUR money and have to give it to THEM instead of it just not being there.
The same is true for health care. We don't shop wisely for health care as a society. We just go to the doctor or the emergency room and for the majority of people in the US, we only worry about what WE have to pay, we never really give any thought to how much it actually COSTS in total, including what the insurance companies pay out. If we had to pay for our own health care costs and then were reimbursed, we'd shop a hell of a lot more wisely for it, just like you do for hamburger and milk now.
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
Really? Care to back that up with facts? I work at one of New Englands TOP hospitals that provides services that in some cases NO ONE in the world can provide. So obviously if the bed count is down here as well, its not because of bad management, but in reality an industry wide problem related to the state of the economy in general.
I used sprained ankle and cough as examples of less serious reasons to visit the hospital but still serious nonetheless.
"WASHINGTON — Soaring demand and shrinking budgets are putting intense stress on the nation's vast non-profit sector — an intricate web of hospitals, schools, social service agencies, museums and other organizations that make up about 6% of the economy. Many of the problems stem directly from the recession, which forced millions of unemployed and uninsured to turn to charity. But the situation could get worse even if the economic rebound continues. "
Go and read on if you like.
I did. Did you? Your article is dated September of last year. Things have turned around quite a bit since then, whether you care to admit it or not doesn't change the facts. I love your quote you pulled. "Many of the problems stem directly from the recession....................But the situation could get worse even if the economic rebound continues."
Interesting, kind of like the weatherman. It could rain, or not. We'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Back to you, Conn..........
Try that now. 4 years ago gas was only 2/3 the price of today if not less, housing has soared to the point where people are making up to 50% more than they paid 4 years ago on home sales, which means rent has gone up to take advantage of the rising cost of houses and condos, food prices are out of control (dairy, beef, produce, etc.), insurance costs have risen due in part to 9/11 and also due to inflation and price gouging, medical and prescription costs have steadily increased, and lets not forget salaries are way down historically.
Maybe you were doing good on $18 an hour then, but try that now and see where you stand. I make more than that and watch my savings drop a steady couple of hundred every single month. I haven't taken a vacation in over a year. My salary was raised 5% this year AFTER my company released the wage freeze 4 months after I was supposed to receive my yearly raise. That means not only did I lose 4 months of my raise, but I was living under the rate of inflation for those 4 months. Hospitals are not doing well. And let me tell you, healthcare is a perfect example of a bad economy because those people with either a cough or a sprained ankle aren't coming in because they have no insurance, and those that do have insurance aren't coming because of the $500 deductible they have to pay for outpatient surgery or emergency room visits.
This country is in poor shape fiscally and it shows. Maybe you guys that are doing really well are enjoying the spoils of war while the rest of us wait for the economy to do more than moderately hiccup a few shitty menial jobs.
edit: made more legible
I am doing it now. Sure I make much more than I did 4 years ago, but the extra money is all going into savings, private mutual fund, and 401k. I looked at my budget last night. I'm pretty anal about it and keep a rough budget on my computer on an excel spreadsheet. I do it monthly and have the old ones in an archive file. Before I did that I would spend more than I needed to. It helps to look at it on paper, at least it keeps me in line.
I'm single (we were talking about $18/hour for a single person origianlly...namely, 84Bill) Have 3 fieros, 1 van Insurance on all vehicles My food bill 2 dogs (one is a St. Bernard, not a small food bill for him), their yearly vet visits (approx $150 each) Utilities, Satellite Things like clothes, shoes, Gas for the vehicles House payment Medical bills blah, blah, blah, so on
If I was back to $36000/year, based on my current budget I could still pay my bills, keep contributing to my 401k (6% of my salary), wouldn't be contributing to my private mutual fund though..oh well, and would STILL have roughly $300 per month left over for my savings account. As a single person, I sure as hell can make $36000/year work TODAY, and any other single person could do the same. Some people need to learn how to do a budget, that's B U D G E T, because any single person who can't make that work is likely a fool with their money...and don't give me this crap about a family of 5 because we are talking about a single person here...that was the original argument.
What's this enjoying spoils of war crap? I was doing fine from the moment I got out into the real world back in 1994 (graduated HS and went off to college, on my own coin I'll add). I have always taken responsibility for my situation and done something about it when I didn't like it. Typical liberal remark, why am I surprised?
Apparently, some Liberals won't be happy unless someone pays them $100,000+ yearly for a mindless job anyone can do. That appears to be the reality of it. Even if the job pays $36000/year they'll ***** . There are tons of people who would like to have a job paying that much. Of course they're the same ones who understand they have to EARN it.
I spent from 1994 to 2000 working for crap and living broke day to day, but I was working for something better. I would do it all over again if I had to because I know the rewards. Attitude is everything and some people's just stink
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-09-2004).]
Some people need to learn how to do a budget, that's B U D G E T, because any single person who can't make that work is likely a fool with their money...
Sure, excellent points, keeping a budget is a great idea but it doesn't help at all when you don't have a job.
Hey, Bill are you budgeting your unemployment check wisely for the future?
This thread is becoming a lecture and does nothing to help or encourage anyone in hard times. I couldn't believe someone would think an $18 job could support $1650mo rent.
We know Bill is out of a job, if he wants to take that out on the current administration so be it. It's his opinion. I would be too when you have a President who visits to the treasury when they are printing his child tax credit checks and jokingly puts one in his pocket then later visits employees of a defense contractor to talk about jobs and the economy.
Bill has done nothing wrong and I don't see him asking for a $100,000+ yearly mindless job. He wanted to go into a technical field that offered decent paying wages, trained got himself educated, and now jobs like his are gone for no other reason than outsourcing it to someone who can do the same for 15 cents and hour. Sure I hope something works out for Bill, he needs to find a job soon even if it's not exactly what was looking for and pays less than what he would like. Eventually he's going to have to make that decision.
Sure, excellent points, keeping a budget is a great idea but it doesn't help at all when you don't have a job.
Hey, Bill are you budgeting your unemployment check wisely for the future?
This thread is becoming a lecture and does nothing to help or encourage anyone in hard times. I couldn't believe someone would think an $18 job could support $1650mo rent.
We know Bill is out of a job, if he wants to take that out on the current administration so be it. It's his opinion. I would be too when you have a President who visits to the treasury when they are printing his child tax credit checks and jokingly puts one in his pocket then later visits employees of a defense contractor to talk about jobs and the economy.
Bill has done nothing wrong and I don't see him asking for a $100,000+ yearly mindless job. He wanted to go into a technical field that offered decent paying wages, trained got himself educated, and now jobs like his are gone for no other reason than outsourcing it to someone who can do the same for 15 cents and hour. Sure I hope something works out for Bill, he needs to find a job soon even if it's not exactly what was looking for and pays less than what he would like. Eventually he's going to have to make that decision.
I can understand that. It's the "doing nothing when you're perfectly capable" part that gets me going, along with the finger pointing. What outcome does that give?...nothing. People like this can gripe and blame all day but in the end they won't better themselves one bit. I would be pissed if my field went overseas leaving me jobless....BUT, I would be man enough to take charge of my life and do something about it...not point fingers and whine.
The $100,000/year statement was a bit of an exageration. The point was that no matter what the salary, someone will come on here and try to make it look like you can't live on it...just like the $36000/year story above which is total crap as I've shown.
And the $1650/month rent? That's an outrageous figure that is now being used to make $36000/year look like peanuts. At first it was just used in an example, but we all know a single person could get a place much cheaper. I don't know anyone who pays rent like that on even twice that salary. What the heck is being rented there??? A single person doesn't need a place that big. Places can be had much much cheaper
I'm proud to be a hard working American, and when I see someone with this attitude I'm going to raise hell....and of course that makes me the bad guy in his eyes...the "screwer" as I've been called. It's an attitude like this which will send this place into the pits.
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-09-2004).]
I am doing it now. Sure I make much more than I did 4 years ago, but the extra money is all going into savings, private mutual fund, and 401k. I looked at my budget last night. I'm pretty anal about it and keep a rough budget on my computer on an excel spreadsheet. I do it monthly and have the old ones in an archive file. Before I did that I would spend more than I needed to. It helps to look at it on paper, at least it keeps me in line.
I'm single (we were talking about $18/hour for a single person origianlly...namely, 84Bill) Have 3 fieros, 1 van Insurance on all vehicles My food bill 2 dogs (one is a St. Bernard, not a small food bill for him), their yearly vet visits (approx $150 each) Utilities, Satellite Things like clothes, shoes, Gas for the vehicles House payment Medical bills blah, blah, blah, so on
If I was back to $36000/year, based on my current budget I could still pay my bills, keep contributing to my 401k (6% of my salary), wouldn't be contributing to my private mutual fund though..oh well, and would STILL have roughly $300 per month left over for my savings account. As a single person, I sure as hell can make $36000/year work TODAY, and any other single person could do the same. Some people need to learn how to do a budget, that's B U D G E T, because any single person who can't make that work is likely a fool with their money...and don't give me this crap about a family of 5 because we are talking about a single person here...that was the original argument.
What's this enjoying spoils of war crap? I was doing fine from the moment I got out into the real world back in 1994 (graduated HS and went off to college, on my own coin I'll add). I have always taken responsibility for my situation and done something about it when I didn't like it. Typical liberal remark, why am I surprised?
Apparently, some Liberals won't be happy unless someone pays them $100,000+ yearly for a mindless job anyone can do. That appears to be the reality of it. Even if the job pays $36000/year they'll ***** . There are tons of people who would like to have a job paying that much. Of course they're the same ones who understand they have to EARN it.
I spent from 1994 to 2000 working for crap and living broke day to day, but I was working for something better. I would do it all over again if I had to because I know the rewards. Attitude is everything and some people's just stink
I thought you meant a family living on that salary. I DO live on a salary just above that and I provide for three, but like I said before I barely squeek by. And thats not because as jstricker put it I probably eat out a lot and buy a lot of alcohol.
I am not sure where all this liberal name calling came from. I never once mentioned welfare, civil rights, or anything remotely related to political standing. I merely said that its nearly impossible to get by on $18 an hour compared to 4 years ago. And I still bring to question how its possible for you to come out with the same numbers when obviously the cost of living has risen over the past 4 years.
I mentioned war spoils as reference to the minute economic recovery our country is experiencing due to our situation in Iraq. Yes I MEAN war spoils because for the most part our own companies are in Iraq making untold amounts of money. And lets not forget the industries that do well during war because of federal spending. I believe that is the reason we are seeing the recovery if thats what you want to call it. I am not saying that the economy isn't doing better than it was a few months ago, but that doesn't mean much of anything considering we are still living under an economy thats worse than the day Bush took office.
If I would believe everything that the US government tells me like Jstricker I would think that Gasoline is a bargain and $4 per pound of ground meat is a super deal.
Last thing for Jstricker: One of my good friends bought a house in crappy town for $100K 4 years ago and sold it for $140K just 3-4 months ago. That is typical of whats going on around here, and don't try to tell me that low interest rates make it just as easy to buy a house when the home prices are high as when interest rates are high and home prices are low. No matter how you do the math, at least 4 years ago and before that it was easier to buy a home (IN THIS AREA) than it is today even with a 4.25% mortgage.
I know the houses I saw 4 years ago in my price range compared to what I am looking at today, and its night and day my friend. Now maybe thats not everywhere like you are claiming, but then why is it that I keep seeing all these reports on skyrocketing housing costs? Sure we also see the propoganda about how right now is a good time to buy, but how could that be true if today real estate is a SELLERS market. How is that a good time to BUY if its a SELLERS market? Thats an oxymoron, it isn't a good time to buy but the government wants people to keep spending to help the recovery, some people like yourself actually BELIEVE the bullshit, but I see the reality not the press reports.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2004).]
Birth-growth-greatness-decline-fall. Start over. As it was in the beginning, so it will be again.
Some of the things happening in our country now are similar to the waning years of the Roman Empire (and the British Empire, for that matter). Needless to say, it does not make me happy. But it is the way of things.
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Please help me to make this world a safer place by understanding WHO the real enemy is so that we may dispatch them or simply change the policy and bring our forces back where they belong..
The enemy is everywhere. They greet you at the movie theater, carry your groceries to your car, pass by you on the street. They give you the weather and the news on the TV, and host the radio show you're listening to. This may dismay you, but your very own children may be part of the enemy.
The enemies are ignorance and apathy.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 06-09-2004).]
And I still bring to question how its possible for you to come out with the same numbers when obviously the cost of living has risen over the past 4 years.
I went home today and looked at my budget. These are the numbers for June 2003 to May 2004 (the last 12 months). I added up all the money I spent, here goes:
natural gas bill: 1619 electric bill: 1021 gas for all my vehicles: 833 Food and supplies: 5575 (covers household supplies, clothes when I need them....$20 old navy jeans are fine with me) Dog food and vet: 427 Phone: 660 Internet: 120 Credit Card: 1380 Car insurance (public liability thru progressive, all 4 vehicles): 1608 Water: 384 Directv: 516 Vehicle Lisence plates: 128 Miscellaneous: 2370 (cash I take out from time to time for personal things..movies, taking my nephew to the park, going to a hockey game etc.) TOTAL MONEY: $16641 spent
Now, lets put me in a small house or apartment for $500/month (they can be found and are not dumps either), that's another $6000/year,
TOTAL NOW is $22641 spent
Now, take $35583 (what I was made 1999-2000), based on 6% going to 401k, $34/month for medical insurance at work, 3.4% state tax, 1% county tax, medicare(1.45%), FICA(6.2%), and federal income tax for that bracket (minus deductions), I would bring home approximately 71% of that income
TOTAL TAKE HOME: $25500
that leaves me $2860 left over from the last year ($25500 minus $22641) based on the current economy (5/2003 to 6/2004). These are my expenses applied to a $36000/year salary, so it CAN be done....Don't forget, I've applied the utility costs of MY house (about 3200 square feet) to a smaller place, so expenses wouldn't be as much
I keep track of my expenses down to the dollar. It's really easy to do, doesn't take too long, and makes it so much more easier to save money.
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-09-2004).]
I went home today and looked at my budget. These are the numbers for June 2003 to May 2004 (the last 12 months). I added up all the money I spent, here goes:
natural gas bill: 1619 electric bill: 1021 gas for all my vehicles: 833 Food and supplies: 5575 (covers household supplies, clothes when I need them....$20 old navy jeans are fine with me) Dog food and vet: 427 Phone: 660 Internet: 120 Credit Card: 1380 Car insurance (public liability thru progressive, all 4 vehicles): 1608 Water: 384 Directv: 516 Vehicle Lisence plates: 128 Miscellaneous: 2370 (cash I take out from time to time for personal things..movies, taking my nephew to the park, going to a hockey game etc.) TOTAL MONEY: $16641 spent
Now, lets put me in a small house or apartment for $500/month (they can be found and are not dumps either), that's another $6000/year,
TOTAL NOW is $22641 spent
Now, take $35583 (what I was made 1999-2000), based on 6% going to 401k, $34/month for medical insurance at work, 3.4% state tax, 1% county tax, medicare(1.45%), FICA(6.2%), and federal income tax for that bracket (minus deductions), I would bring home approximately 71% of that income
TOTAL TAKE HOME: $25500
that leaves me $2860 left over from the last year ($25500 minus $22641) based on the current economy (5/2003 to 6/2004). These are my expenses applied to a $36000/year salary, so it CAN be done....Don't forget, I've applied the utility costs of MY house (about 3200 square feet) to a smaller place, so expenses wouldn't be as much
I keep track of my expenses down to the dollar. It's really easy to do, doesn't take too long, and makes it so much more easier to save money.
What about car taxes, birthday presents, fathers day, mothers day, a date perhaps, car repairs, Dr Appointments, prescription costs, Books or tuition if you still take classes, oil changes, etc.. There are a lot of things you never think about that add up real quick. And BTW a $500 apartment is only available in the bad areas of the cities around here. I'm not saying that its not doable I just don't see how you could make it look like the cost of living hasn't changed in 4 years.
EDIT: What no car payment either? I have been paying $255 per month on my family car for 3 years now and I have 2 more to go at a refinanced $225.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2004).]
Sure, excellent points, keeping a budget is a great idea but it doesn't help at all when you don't have a job.
Hey, Bill are you budgeting your unemployment check wisely for the future?
This thread is becoming a lecture and does nothing to help or encourage anyone in hard times. I couldn't believe someone would think an $18 job could support $1650mo rent.
We know Bill is out of a job, if he wants to take that out on the current administration so be it. It's his opinion. I would be too when you have a President who visits to the treasury when they are printing his child tax credit checks and jokingly puts one in his pocket then later visits employees of a defense contractor to talk about jobs and the economy.
Bill has done nothing wrong and I don't see him asking for a $100,000+ yearly mindless job. He wanted to go into a technical field that offered decent paying wages, trained got himself educated, and now jobs like his are gone for no other reason than outsourcing it to someone who can do the same for 15 cents and hour. Sure I hope something works out for Bill, he needs to find a job soon even if it's not exactly what was looking for and pays less than what he would like. Eventually he's going to have to make that decision.
Hey thanks Tigger. You hit the nail directly on the head in regard to myself. As I said before, this thread was not about "me" it's about the degradation of American values and it's system of justice.
I can only describe it like this. There are programs out there to help those that really need it and I happen to be one of them. Again I am not just refering to myself but I am just "indicating" that I am not alone. I have a standard of living just like anyone else does and I (as well as many others) feel as you described so well above. "We should not settle for less than what we deserve."
I should not be criticized for using all the available resources to succeed at my goals because I have sacreficed alot to meet than end. There is no joy in not having any money and by that I mean I do scrape by but the 20 bucks for digging fence post holes for my aunte will not get me very far. It will get me just a tad further down the road. Same with the welfare dole I am getting. I'm not proud of the fact that I am getting it nor is it nearly enough but it does afford me just a bit more room to breathe. It is there for a reason and I happen to qualify so I get it.
Florida has some interesting rules regarding welfare and it addresses some things that I have read about in this thread regarding nonproffit organizations. Ya see Florida requires me to either be in school or I must sign up for a non proffit organization and volunteer 20 hrs a month. I Chose habitat for humanity. I also am required to put in atleast 8 applications a month (I usually do more) from what is called the "One Stop" center. They have alot of connections in the community and I have gotten some very good leads for jobs in my chosen field. I asked if I should compromize on my job selection and I was told "no, take your time and get what you want." I was reminded that I may not get what I want in pay but that is fine with me so long as I get the job I love to do. Infact I would almost do it for free if I didn't need the money. That's how much I enjoy my work.
All I need to do is follow the rules and I or anyone else will get the help that is needed. You jackasses that critisize me are arrogant pricks with no sense of humanity or compassion at all have no clue how unamerican you sound. America was founded on (among other things) this principal; the desire to get ahead and be something not to take a back seat and put the hand out just because times are tough does not mean I need to work a snit job, It just means I must work harder at getting the job I want. Pricks such as you are the injustice that drives people away and into misery because when they are down you feel it's fun to kick them around.
You jackasses are the guys that would kick the crutches out from under the kid at school just to watch him fall and I'd love to kick your asses in person. I've lived most of my young life being kicked and beat up but ya know. You will get yours some day even if I never personally do it, you bring it on yourselves.
Pay attention because the posts that follow will outline what I mean.
Go ahead and read this Jstricker then tell me all about how the middle class is just a bunch of wasteful spenders. I am beginning to think of you as a condescending rich guy that just can't understand the frustrations of those you can't identify with.http://www.law.harvard.edu/alumni/bulletin/2004/spring/feature_2-fulltext.html
"Here's the problem with people nowadays. They spend spend spend on fancy toys, gadgets, food, clothes, vacations, cars, boats, McMansions and that second home in the country. So if they can't pay the bills for their indulgences, they shouldn't cry poor mouth and expect any handouts. There's no personal responsibility anymore, that's the problem. Why, back in my day . . "
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2004).]
What about car taxes, birthday presents, fathers day, mothers day, a date perhaps, car repairs, Dr Appointments, prescription costs, Books or tuition if you still take classes, oil changes, etc.. There are a lot of things you never think about that add up real quick. And BTW a $500 apartment is only available in the bad areas of the cities around here. I'm not saying that its not doable I just don't see how you could make it look like the cost of living hasn't changed in 4 years.
Those are probably in the $3850 for credit card and misc cash.
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EDIT: What no car payment either? I have been paying $255 per month on my family car for 3 years now and I have 2 more to go at a refinanced $225.
If he only had one vehicle, he would save $1,100 on car insurance (mutli-car discount means that it isn't $402 for one car). Add $516 for his cable bill. Add $96 for car licenses. Take $1,348 from his extra cash and you get the $3,060 for car payments. That still leaves $1,511 extra cash for emergencies. And I'm sure he could cut down on the food and supplies or misc cash bills if he was really struggling for money. Even a 10% reduction gives him another $795 per year.
What about car taxes, birthday presents, fathers day, mothers day, a date perhaps, car repairs, Dr Appointments, prescription costs, Books or tuition if you still take classes, oil changes, etc.. There are a lot of things you never think about that add up real quick. And BTW a $500 apartment is only available in the bad areas of the cities around here. I'm not saying that its not doable I just don't see how you could make it look like the cost of living hasn't changed in 4 years.
EDIT: What no car payment either? I have been paying $255 per month on my family car for 3 years now and I have 2 more to go at a refinanced $225.
First off, these little expenses that add up quick, I already said EVERYTHING is included on my spreadsheets...I meant it.
Car taxes? don't pay them here...unless it's somehow figured into my plates, and as far as car payments, I have NONE, buy a cheap used Fiero like I did then ($600), paid cash, no car payment, got my latest Fiero for $300, duke and it runs great (had to replace $20 timing gears to make it run)....and my van, 86 Econoline, bought it 2 years ago for $650
Who said anything about being in school? If I had to go on this income, I would take a couple classes a semester so I could afford it....it's not that bad if you do it in small amounts.
Car repairs, presents, oil changes, car parts...that was all covered in Food/Supplies and Miscellaneous expenses. ALL my expenses are included in these sections. Do I need to break it down to EACH entry in my spreadsheet??? Forget that. EVERYTHING I spend goes into that spreadsheet..EVERYTHING. Lets not forget my credit card payment which covers things like this too.
I'll say it again, the spreadsheet contains EVERY expense I have each month.
I NEVER said the cost of living has changed in 4 years, I just said you could make it on $36000/year today, and I've shown you can. Nobody forced you to buy a car that would put you into a 5 year loan at $250/month.
Dave
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-09-2004).]
Just stay away from me and we won't have a problem ok Richard Cranium? I would have expected this kind of response from you, you really do need a good ass kickin.
Just stay away from me and we won't have a problem ok Richard Cranium? I would have expected this kind of response from you, you really do need a good ass kickin.
LOL...you crack me up Bill, and who was the crybaby who said he want to kick all our asses??
need an ass kickin why? because I'm a hard working american?....unlike you
And I'm sure he could cut down on the food and supplies or misc cash bills if he was really struggling for money. Even a 10% reduction gives him another $795 per year.
thanks for mentioning that, this budget is for someone who isn't struggling, so it could be tightened up quite a bit
There are far more than I listed but I want to keep it simple. They are all related in a very critical way (though the time line is different) starting with Collumbine. I can see how they are and it scares me because there is nothing I can do to stop it other than to point out the dangers. I see them and I'm wanting to flee into the hills where it's safe.
I bet you have crossing rifles in the rear window of your pickup truck and a rebel flag on your t-shirt.
wow, that's funny
is that all you can say after I clearly showed you above that it's possible to make it on that income...eventhough you did your best to try and make it look impossible. that was what we were talking about until you made the intelligent comment above
[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 06-09-2004).]
thanks for mentioning that, this budget is for someone who isn't struggling, so it could be tightened up quite a bit
Now apply those numbers to a family of 3,4, or 5 and tell me where your at. Because the median income in the U.S. is only $42,409 which is about $18 per hour plus a few hours of overtime throughout the year.
"The Census Department's data shows pretax median household income rose 0.6 percent to $42,409 between 2000 and 2002, the most recent year available from that agency. When adjusted for inflation, that gain became a 3.3 percent decline during the same period --."
is that all you can say after I clearly showed you above that it's possible to make it on that income...eventhough you did your best to try and make it look impossible. that was what we were talking about until you made the intelligent comment above
LOL dude I was just ribbing you for you "hard working american " comment, and go ahead and show me how its easy for a family to live off of that income. Then if you can show me how we are better off today as families than we were say 30 years ago. Go ahead.
Sure, excellent points, keeping a budget is a great idea but it doesn't help at all when you don't have a job.
Hey, Bill are you budgeting your unemployment check wisely for the future?
To answer this question.
I don't have unemployment benefits because I exhausted them last year. I did have a few computer consulting jobs during and after it ran out but the problem is the pickens have gotten VERY slim. My job still exists but there are very few and at this stage of the game I can't accept less. In other words I won't work 2 crap jobs because I might miss an oppertunity to get the one I want if I stop looking as hard as I have been. I simply must be the first and the best in line, problem is there aren't many lines and the ones I hit evaporate instantly!
If I get the good job it will come with retirement (401 or whatever) and medical benefits. So basically yes I am planning my future without compromize.This way bot myself and my employer will be happy. I can afford to be picky at this young age of 39, I'm not a prime candidate for education re-education in the eyes of most employers, I already have most of the tools I need to get my job done very efficiently.
My idea is (and the price is steep) to hold on as long as I can to get what I want. I have just enough breething room but I must admit it has been a sacrefice. I'm a happy go lucky guy even though my life appears to be in shambels but if you have read any of my posts in the religious threads you know why my shambeled life does not bother me. It's just a dearm.
Thank god I'm american because as long as I live the America dream lives. God bless America because someone of higher power really needs to before it is totally destroyed.
LOL dude I was just ribbing you for you "hard working american " comment, and go ahead and show me how its easy for a family to live off of that income. Then if you can show me how we are better off today as families than we were say 30 years ago. Go ahead.
Hello????? we were talking about a single person living on that income buddy. That was the idea...Bill having a job with that pay. I made my point with real numbers (it is possible) and now you want to stretch the argument to how that income would be for a family? We were talking about a SINGLE person from the get go.
Show you how we're better off today than we were 30 years ago? DId I ever imply that we were? I wouldn't say we're living in some kind of pre-civil war like some people like to think. What other things did I magically say while I was away from the computer? Our only argument was how a single person could make it on $36000 a year. You questioned it, I gave you numbers, and now it's over.
Hello????? we were talking about a single person living on that income buddy. That was the idea...Bill having a job with that pay. I made my point with real numbers (it is possible) and now you want to stretch the argument to how that income would be for a family? We were talking about a SINGLE person from the get go.
Show you how we're better off today than we were 30 years ago? DId I ever imply that we were? I wouldn't say we're living in some kind of pre-civil war like some people like to think. What other things did I magically say while I was away from the computer? Our only argument was how a single person could make it on $36000 a year. You questioned it, I gave you numbers, and now it's over.
Whoa man you need to get out more often and release some stress. I originally compared your numbers to my situation and applied that to a family living today. If you read my posts, I realized we were talking about a single after someone actually mentioned he was living single, and I corrected myself and admitted I thought we were talking about a family. I thought Bill had a family living with him. I at that point was only arguing the difference in cost of living from 4 years ago. I then posed the question of how that would translate to a family household and mentioned how the median household income is about the same amount. Obviously you were just waiting to have your say instead of actually LISTENING to what others have to say for a change. There was no twisting or stretching on my part, just reasonable questioning.
Here is where I mention I thought we were speaking about a family income, and also where I state that your numbers don't seem to reflect any inflation which I thought was relevant.
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Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
"I thought you meant a family living on that salary. I DO live on a salary just above that and I provide for three, but like I said before I barely squeek by. And thats not because as jstricker put it I probably eat out a lot and buy a lot of alcohol.
I am not sure where all this liberal name calling came from. I never once mentioned welfare, civil rights, or anything remotely related to political standing. I merely said that its nearly impossible to get by on $18 an hour compared to 4 years ago. And I still bring to question how its possible for you to come out with the same numbers when obviously the cost of living has risen over the past 4 years.
and here is where I ASK whether those numbers could sustain a family and how that compares to where the average was 30 years ago.
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Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
"Now apply those numbers to a family of 3,4, or 5 and tell me where your at. Because the median income in the U.S. is only $42,409 which is about $18 per hour plus a few hours of overtime throughout the year."
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Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: "Then if you can show me how we are better off today as families than we were say 30 years ago."
Besides isn't it OK to evolve a discussion onto a new topic? Which is in this case closely related to what Bill's original post was about.... the current situation in America. Albeit he was speaking from his perspective, but talking in general terms.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 06-09-2004).]
I also am required to put in atleast 8 applications a month (I usually do more) from what is called the "One Stop" center. 
