I guess I will just bow my head in shame and go kill myself... Mach 10 said I was SOOOOO WRONG without telling me why I am so wrong... Funny that all of my black friends don't think I am so wrong. I was standing in my kitchen just a few weeks ago with a friend of mine and we were talking about my Southern ancestors and his grandmother who came over as a slave... The two of us were talking about how far we had come... It is the idiots who can't let it go that perpetuate the hatred...
Continue to think I am wrong all you want, Mach... I don't have to deal with you. My friends know me for who I am and don't have to throw out their 'psychological prowess' to make them feel better than everyone else. We're just guys hanging out and being friends... No colors, no barriers, no races... I wish some of you guys on the other side of the fence that breed so much hatred could do the same thing. The world really would be a better place.
Call me wrong again and make yourself feel all clean and holy. I won't bother with this again. I liked the other thread where there were actually facts being used better.
First, you are not the only one to bring up BET in here. Second, are you saying that you consider BET to be racist? If so, please say so as you have your right to your opinion on this, but I would like to know. Third, I have heard many who have said they think BET's programming is racist. I have to admit, I don't watch much BET and didn't, even when I had a zillion satellite stations pumped into my cabin.
Instead of lamenting a lack "WET", you could turn on one of VIACOM's other networks like CMT while working for an ideal "WET". In my opinion, "WET" for the most part, is represented by dozens, if not hundreds of channels. I doubt the main reason there is not a single network "WET" is that someone might think it is racist. Clearly, despite the railing against BET, the "WTE" (in this case, White Television Executives) figure there is a buck to be made.
As far as my credibility with you being diminished, thanks for acknowledging I had some at all, with you at least. Now what a faulty argument has to do with my post about VIACOM and suggesting who those that have a problem with BET should whine to, is beyond me.
Since you want to bring up your specific comment about how "WET" would be considered racist. I wouldn't really care if you had a "WET" and it was sponsored by the KKK. Those who would pay to support that programming have the same right as BET, VIACOM, you or I do when it comes to the First Amendment and a few more when it comes to cable programming.
The only thing is that it takes money to broadcast them on a national scale. I, as well as you have a right to navigate around those channels that have programming we don't appreciate. Some TVs even let you delete the offending channels.
Now if your ideal "WET" is going to fail before it gets out of the box because some group(s) finds it distasteful, I guess it doesn't deserve channel space as of yet. BET is a cable network that seems to be thriving despite that clearly, some folks are mad because they don't have a "WET" to promote programming that is, for a lack of better term, "Euro-American" specific.
In BETs case, people seem to ignore who owns BET and claim reverse discrimination as what is keeping some ideal version of "WET" down. Many also ignore the overwhelming amount of programming directed at non-whites and no one has even flinched when it comes to Spanish language network programming that dwarfs BET as an example.
I wonder if the same objection to BET, which is really what "I don't have "WET" is about, works with Univision or Telemundo as the example of ethnically centered programming that is supported by ad revenues? It seems that targeting BET is generally off base considering the following:
"HOUSTON -- In New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, the No. 1 network for nightly news among adults ages 18 to 34 is not ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox or CNN.
It is the Spanish-language network Univision."
I mean really, Spanish language programming has to be more evil that BET is on it's most militant day! Imagine the audacity of programming in this country in a language other than "proper English" that represents the fastest growing minority and political block in the country. It would seem, that at the very minimum, Spanish programming on that scale encourages people that live here not to learn American, I mean "proper English".
By the way, I enjoy Spanish language television, when I get to watch cable or sat TV. It helps with my project to rehabilitate my Spanish and the women are so, well, so fun to watch. For the most part, I prefer TV that tells me something new, whether than be a history, science or public network. Okay, I like Junkyard wars as well.
My point is that in the many boards that I have had this same discussion on, including PFF, no one has ever once mentioned these networks when they whine about how their ideal "WET" is being held down by some groups idea of what is and is not racist programming. (Which I think is different than programming that is generally exclusive or ethnically centered.)
If you get someone to fund "WET", more power to it. I might tune in to put my finger on the pulse of the community that supports that network. In the meantime, I will have to occasionally tune in Rush L. for a semi-articulate expression of that idealism.
You are even more naive than I thought.
Let me answer your question first because you misunderstood again: no, I don't consider BET racist. I don't shout 'racism' all the time like some minority groups, HOWEVER, what I DO consider racist is the fact that WET would never be ALLOWED by politicians AND minority groups.
Which brings me to my first point: saying 'go ahead, open your all-white station, I don't care' is like saying 'go ahead, fly to Mars if you want'. The point? Both are impossible for the time being. One because of RACISM and one due to physical barriers.
Of what, 40 available channels, you have *ONE* "black" network, one "hispanic" network, and 38 White Entertainment Networks.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?!?
Oh, I forgot, Fox, NBC etc are SO not catered to white people Or did they re-cast Friends to include visible minorities?
Oh, and FYI, most children are born white, regardless of race; Melanin production only usually starts a few days after birth. We ALL come out the same.
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-03-2003).]
Mach, Mach, Mach. We can always count on a Canadian to say something stupid.
First, if I'm not mistken, African Americans make up less than 10% of the US population (somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but it may even be less than that). So it is no wonder that most networks are mostly white. Duh.
Second, you missed the point as well. Nobody is complaining about having BET. HELL, I LOVE stand up comedy and BET seems to have plenty of it. Truth be told, I occasionally watch that channel just for that reason.
Like someone already pointed out, the only channels on TV are the ones that make money. You can point out as many 'white' stations as you want and they will be there as long as they make money.
I assume I don't have to explain the other point again (why we don't have WET) because you've read my reply to Wudman (above).
People also seem to forget that BET is not the only 'black' TV station. They are just the only one with it in the name. Look at the networks. A good portion of sitcoms are now based around black characters. And it the percentage is growing every year. I'm not offended by that... But don't talk about all the 'white' networks...
First, if I'm not mistken, African Americans make up less than 10% of the US population (somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but it may even be less than that).
Songman: What the hell are you talking about? I admire your ability to sit off in your corner and deny that racism is a deep-rooted problem in BOTH of our societies. Just because black people can sit on the same bus as a white person doesn't mean that the social problems are solved. It is there, wether you want to admit it or not. And if running away makes you feel better, go right ahead. But it is naive to even hope that the problem of racism has gone away.
Voytek: What on earth does the actual African population of the US have to do with anything? Do you have ANY concept of irony? Did it not occur to you, in your infinite wisdom, that it may have been tongue-in-cheek?
Oh I must be insane to put my pecker in this guillotine, but I can't help myself.
Some things that I've noticed:
There's a United Negro College Fund, but no United Caucasion college fund. Why not?
There's an entire month dedicated to "african american" heritage, but none dedicated to caucasions, Italians, Hispanics, Scottish, Asian, or anyone else I can think of (for sure not us Crackers) for that matter. Why not?
"African Americans" want to be considered as equal and want to "be accepted", then why do such a large number of the most outspoken go out of their way to be as different, offensive, and disagreeable as they can?
Why is it that seemingly every single incident involving a white person and person of color is "racially motivated" but that never means where the person of color was the one who was prejudiced?
Why are there laws to give "minorities" favoritism in all kinds of areas? Where is the "equality" in that?
Here's an observation I've made that I think everyone better come to terms with: Associating a person with their skin color is not racism. And it will ALWAYS exist. As long as we have an ocular sense, and will be called on to describe a person in their physical appearance, skin color will ALWAYS be one of the quallifying characteristics. It's not racist, it's effective use of a descriptive characteristic. Jeeze. Get over yourselves already. If a person wants to be treated equally, then they should act like an adult and quit crying every single time someone steps on their toe a little bit. It's as if we're all supposed to walk around on eggshells to protect someone else from their oversensitivity. Oh, and as for jokes....what's the assumption in a joke when race, creed, color, or religion isn't specified? Uh, hello? Causcasion? Maybe us white boys should form up and protest all jokes that aren't directed at a specific group since that only leaves the rest of us. Oh, wait, a world without jokes. Yeah, that's where we're headed.
Taji: I can't talk for what goes on in the states, but up here, if you want a college fund started, you get a bunch of people together, dump some money into it, and it's there. All of our "funds" are started by individuals, the exception being the Aboriginal ones. But those are apparantly tied into various treaties.
You miss the point Mach. If a person here tired to establish anything specifically for caucasions, privately funded or otherwise, it would be labeled as "racist" in an instant, and the litigation would be started before the ink was dry. Yet, other groups can have them, and it's OK. But hey, it's all in the spirit of equality, right guys?
Oh I dunno. At my university, to my knowledge we have a Ukranian fund, Swedish fund, Finnish fund, French(france) fund, Francophone (quebec) fund that I am aware of.
Last I checked ALL of these are (by inference) caucasians...
I think it's all in the wording. African Heritage Fund doesn't say black. It says African which IMPLIES black... Would a white South African immigrant be exempt?
You miss the point Mach. If a person here tired to establish anything specifically for caucasions, privately funded or otherwise, it would be labeled as "racist" in an instant, and the litigation would be started before the ink was dry. Yet, other groups can have them, and it's OK. But hey, it's all in the spirit of equality, right guys?
Thats very true, and a very good point. Equality isn't it great in America.
If I remember right this sort of thing aready went throught the courts with all white country clubs etc. It's a simple double standard in reverse against white males for the most part.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 12-07-2003).]
As an Irish-American, I got a scholarship because I had red hair and green eyes.
There are plenty of scholarships for whites in America. White Americans can live anywhere, are less likely to be denied a job because of their skin. Whites are far less likely to be denied access to equal educational opportunities. Whites didn't have to have the Federal Government escort them into school. Whites have not been subjected to state sponsored segregation. Whites seldom have been lynched because they were white. If you think that it is all fair now, you show just how shallow and naive you are.
You guys whining how bad white people have it make it hard to be a white person. This thread needs to go away and take the ignorance with it.
So whine about how bad it is because you are too slow to find a scholarship for "Whites Only". They are out there.
When you have funded education with something other than property taxes, de-institutionalized racism, and stop teaching your children your stupid ideas, then after a few decades you can start your whining. Until then, being black in America is still a second class ticket. Blacks have been turning the cheek for about 350 years on this continent, many of you can stand to do it for a few dozen.
It takes extreme nerve or a case of head up your butt to whine about equality. Not that those frustrated bigots, who spotlight extremes of the black community as the norm will ever admit that the US has balanced the books. The losers will be the first to say, I didn't lynch no one or It is time for blacks to get over it or Gee, THEY get to be quarterbacks now.
Even sadder, most of those that believe whine white male heritage is endangered are Christians until it comes to race equality. Take that thread about the world being created literally in six days and Genesis, you would figure that we all have common ancestors. So does that mean these were folks lynched by their brothers? Can someone tell me if this treatment is the behavior of good Christians? Let this one go away. I've tons of images that cast a different light on good Christians grinning as they practice a litte equality.
Edit by Cliff Pennock: Changed images to links. Please, if you really have to post graphic images, use links instead so people actually have a choice if they want to view them or not.
[This message has been edited by FieroMad (edited 12-07-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Cliff Pennock (edited 12-07-2003).]
Wow, what a thread. I stayed away from this thread by design. I saw the title, and thought... nope, do not do it... Do not read any of it because you will have to respond, and I for one do not have the time in the day to try and convince those with narrow points of view that being called "colored" in and of itself is offensive.
I mean really stop and think about it, when was the last time it was acceptable to be called "colored"? Was the topic's title "Colored Folks, this is a joke..." refering to Black people or White people that turn gray, red, blue, and other shades of the rainbow throughout their life? I am sure it referred to blacks; and the mere nametag of colored brings back memories of the civil rights struggles from the 1950 timeframe when it was not a good time to be "colored".
As already stated, this is beyond being PC... some true colors are being shown (pardon the pun).
I for one am glad that I took the time to read this thread, to see who it is that I am dealing with. Another part of me is extremely disappointed.
Cheers!
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 12-07-2003).]
Wow, what a thread. I stayed away from this thread by design. I saw the title, and thought... nope, do not do it... Do not read any of it because you will have to respond, and I for one do not have the time in the day to try and convince those with narrow points of view that being called "colored" in and of itself is offensive.
I mean really stop and think about it, when was the last time it was acceptable to be called "colored"? Was the topic's title "Colored Folks, this is a joke..." refering to Black people or White people that turn gray, red, blue, and other shades of the rainbow throughout their life? I am sure it referred to blacks; and the mere nametag of colored brings back memories of the civil rights struggles from the 1950 timeframe when it was not a good time to be "colored".
As already stated, this is beyond being PC... some true colors are being shown (pardon the pun).
I for one am glad that I took the time to read this thread, to see who it is that I am dealing with. Another part of me is extremely disappointed.
Cheers!
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 12-07-2003).]
I think that "Colored Folks" was the "Title" of the Joke, he wasn't addressing the "Colored Community"...
Wow, what a thread. I stayed away from this thread by design. I saw the title, and thought... nope, do not do it... Do not read any of it because you will have to respond, and I for one do not have the time in the day to try and convince those with narrow points of view that being called "colored" in and of itself is offensive.
I mean really stop and think about it, when was the last time it was acceptable to be called "colored"? Was the topic's title "Colored Folks, this is a joke..." refering to Black people or White people that turn gray, red, blue, and other shades of the rainbow throughout their life? I am sure it referred to blacks; and the mere nametag of colored brings back memories of the civil rights struggles from the 1950 timeframe when it was not a good time to be "colored".
As already stated, this is beyond being PC... some true colors are being shown (pardon the pun).
I for one am glad that I took the time to read this thread, to see who it is that I am dealing with. Another part of me is extremely disappointed.
Cheers!
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 12-07-2003).]
I think we should give it a rest and let this thread die. Some people have no problem with the joke and others are offended by it...so be it...it's obvious that nobody is going to change their opinion on this one.
The fact is that it wasn't intended to be offensive. Sometimes things go that way and there's nothing that can be done about it.
This is just one of those things that should have not been posted. It was bound to offend someone and that's completely understandable.
Wow, apparantly you didn't catch the last paragraph in my post. You totally lashed out at me for no reason. I asked you a reasonable question and you just ripped me to shreds. I'm blown away by your needless rage and short-fused responce to my meek little question.
You did reaffirm something I've already learned, not about philosophy, but in life: no matter how hard you try to not offend, your efforts will always come up short. I also see that everyone is very short-sighted in lots of things, as your post and most other posts in this topic have proved.
I have been lurking for quite some time on this one. Everone PREACHES acceptance, yet no one is accepting of someone who is prejudice. I am a prejudice person. Why? I don't have a clue. I don't do it on purpose. Is it such a bad thing to admit that I will judge a person by how they look before I give them a chance? Is it my fault that people have to earn my respect before I will give it to them? Can't anyone accept my differences? I didn't think so.....
Well, knee_scraper, at least you're honest about yourself. Most prejudice people don't even acknowledge it. The issue isn't if you wait for someone to earn your respect - that's fine. But if you don't offer the same respect based solely on color and not the person's other attributes, then it becomes racism.
You want an example of rampant racism? Check out the rift between light skinned and dark skinned blacks. Or blacks vs. Koreans. Blacks vs. Hispanics. If you take the time to look, most racism seems to exist between blacks and any other non-black group. This isn't a scientific study, just a trend I've noticed.
I was raised in a household where the issue of equality wasn't an issue. We had black neighbors and it never occurred to me that I would have to make sure they were equal. It wasn't an issue. They were people, just like I was.
FINE. I swore I wouldn't reply to the again, for REAL... But This gentleman raised a HORRIBLY important point:
First of all, make absolutely **NO** mistake. Racism and discrimination *ARE* a huge problem still.
But something REALLY important to remember is that not everything done in the name of "Racial Equality" is promoting or even looking in the same direction as Equality.
I'd like to pop forth another example if I may:
Let us take the Gender Equality movement, AKA the Feminist Movement. HUGE leaps and bounds were made in terms of progress.
Then something happened. Feminism is STILL a valid issue, albeight not the 2-mile schizm it used to be. However, the local Feminist groups seem to have lost sight of the goal. The most vocal of our "Womyns" groups in Winnipeg seem to have nothing better to do with their time than bicker about the spelling of "woman" (Sorry, "womYn"), and slam movies for objectifying women.
Does this mean that feminism is irrelevant? Certainly not. However, this behavior is counter-productive; It moves attention away from the REAL issues, and promotes a sense that since all the real issues are done, all they have left is to become a public nuiscance.
It's the SAME thing with the race movement. Always has been. There are plenty of people fighting for TRUE equality. And you *NEVER* hear about them. Why? Because they are seeking to NORMALIZE society. And you don't do that with huge press coverage or loud noises. Instead, you have people who are acting out of their own agendas, and simply "using the race card" to forward it. It is deplorable. At the very least it destroys the credibility of the real tolerance movement.
And that is what it's about: TOLERANCE. Not acceptance. Nobody can make anyone like somebody else. But they deserve mutual respect.
Oh I dunno. At my university, to my knowledge we have a Ukranian fund, Swedish fund, Finnish fund, French(france) fund, Francophone (quebec) fund that I am aware of.
Last I checked ALL of these are (by inference) caucasians...
I think it's all in the wording. African Heritage Fund doesn't say black. It says African which IMPLIES black... Would a white South African immigrant be exempt?
Yes, a white, South African immigrant would definitely be exempt. You know it and I know it. Don't sit here and pretend like racism flows one way and don't pretend like you don't know whom the African Heritage Fund is for.
Man, you've got some messed up ideas dude. I see our Canadian multiculturalism has brainwashed you well. And who said propaganda doesn't work.
Yes, a white, South African immigrant would definitely be exempt. You know it and I know it. Don't sit here and pretend like racism flows one way and don't pretend like you don't know whom the African Heritage Fund is for.
Man, you've got some messed up ideas dude. I see our Canadian multiculturalism has brainwashed you well. And who said propaganda doesn't work.
Yes, a white, South African immigrant would definitely be exempt. You know it and I know it. Don't sit here and pretend like racism flows one way and don't pretend like you don't know whom the African Heritage Fund is for.
But I'd love to see a white South African applying for the fund! But, but, but you're not black?!?!?
As far as this offending "black people" Im black and I actually found it funny Wudman lighten up it was a joke not intended to offend any one, but to bring out a little laugh in us all...
If we tell a blond joke are all the blond folk here on the forum going to get there panties in a bunch?????????? NO SO LIGHTEN UP
------------------ the unfortunate history of my GT here "I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
------------------ [IMG]]http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/gizmotimetemp_both/language/www/US/M N/Bemidji.gif[/IMG] the unfortunate history of my GT here "I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
[This message has been edited by justa6 (edited 01-09-2005).]
------------------ the unfortunate history of my GT here "I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
------------------ the unfortunate history of my GT here "I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
------------------ the unfortunate history of my GT here "I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
------------------ The unfortunate history of my GT here
"I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
------------------ The unfortunate history of my GT
"I say it's a fallacy that kids need 12 years of school! 3 months is plenty! Look at me. I'm smart! I don't need 11 1/2 more years of school! It's a complete waste of my time!" -Calvin "How on earth did you get all the way to the bus stop with both feet through one pant leg?" -Hobbes "I fell down lots" -Calvin
(pardon the pun). 
[IMG]
