I don't know if I should comment about this "joke". I did post it in it's entirety as I received it. If I have offended anybody, I wish to personally apologize for hurting your feelings, it was not my intention. If you want, I will remove my post and I hope all others that reprinted it would do so too. I do not want to start a race war over something so stupid as a "joke". I am Caribe-Latino-American ( Puerto Rican by birth). I consider myself an American not any other hyphened pseudo nationality. Again, if I have offended anybody, you have my sincerest apology. I grew up the first sixteen years of my life out of the country, mostly in Latin America, and amongst several different races and cultures. I have always considered any one of them my equal and friends, no matter what their color, sex, religion, or country of origin. I didn't even know that people were "different" till I moved back to the states. I didn't live here during the race riots and had no knowledge about any of this till I moved back to the US. What I did find offensive is how people here want to be treated different based on what their religion or race is. I never saw this out of the country and I believe people got along better because of this. They had a live and let live attitude. I also lived in Arkansas for a couple of years. There actually people there who are still proud to say that so and so from their family was a klan member and you wouldn't believe how they treated the non White people there. I also was surprised that the non White people seemed to accept this treatment. I had asked a good friend of mine why he put up with this and his responce was that that was the way things were and it didn't bother him. I just couldn't believe it. It takes all kinds of people to make up a nation but I still believe that a little of the separate but equal still exist here now. We should be united and equal or as I prefer to call us: Americans. Again I wish to apologize to those I have offended.

Well I Have to go to work now, don't you guys offend anyone while I am at work...wouldn't want to offend anyone..LOL
got news for you all "BY GOD, WE ARE ALL AMERICANS" SORRY I am not too PC
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1988 Gary Tucker (GT)

[This message has been edited by GARY TUCKER (edited 11-19-2003).]

[This message has been edited by GARY TUCKER (edited 11-19-2003).]

wudman,

I think you're missing the point of the "joke". It's really more of a social commentary than a joke. The point is how silly it is for white people to call others colored. The point of using broken english is not to stereotype blacks, but to further make the point that if even the most uneducated black man can see it, why can't they? It wouldn't be quite as effective written to Yale standards.

At least that's how I see it.

quote Originally posted by Wudman: One has to love the anonymity of the net which is a world away from having this discussion in a group. I would ask who of you that enjoyed this so much would tell this in an ethnically mixed group?

If the ethnic group is as anal as you, then none of us. I think you just proved everyone's point.

My satellite has a channel called BET. Is that not Black Entartainment Television??

I am still waiting for WET but probably won't happen.

BTW, a Polack here (you're probably going 'no, not with THAT name ). My buddy used to have a BOOK of Polack jokes. I laughed my head off.

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quote Originally posted by Voytek: I am still waiting for WET but probably won't happen.

That sounds like a pay p*rn channel.

Excellent point, DRH, as usual.

When my kids were 4-6ish years old and were describing a black child from their sunday school class, their physical description would be, "the brown skinned boy."

Black is inaccurate.
African-american is inaccurate as most have never been to africa. Many come via caribbean islands.
Colored is vague and imprecise.

I love the anonymity of the internet so we can have open discussions and NOT worry about race, social class, nationality, appearance, age, etc. Wudman, it never ONCE crossed my mind if you were black or not. Didn't matter. Don't care. Still don't. I care about what you think and your opinions.

Now Voytek, on the other hand... Kidding.

You can please some of the people some of the time but You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Personally I find the joke offensively funny. Still funny though. Ain't near as bad as some Richard Priar jokes I've heard and I find them funny too. Even bought a couple of his tapes so some of us other "Rednecks" could get a good laugh.

Wudman
Some of us can look past the ethinticy of the joke and see the humor in it. Are You that thin skined that you take offense so easily?

Personally I don't care what flavor the joke is if its funny I laugh but if I can't see the humor in it I don't cry.

Just as long as you don't making fun of us Martians

I really don't care what colour you are Wudman. Apparently idiots come in all colours and shapes.

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I love how you spell color with a "u".

jeebus ppl, remove the 10 foot poles up each of ur a$$es and lighten up!

I am a white male, and personally didn't find it funny.............BUT others did...meh whatever ppl, soon enuf we will be looking at this thread in the 'can

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quote Originally posted by avengador1: I don't know if I should comment about this "joke". I did post it in it's entirety as I received it. If I have offended anybody, I wish to personally apologize for hurting your feelings, it was not my intention.

I don't think you really should remove it OR apologize to anyone that is apparently offended by it.

A. It IS a joke, and it's meant to take a lighter look at things

B. You (to basically cover your ass on an ever-so-critical forum) said in the topic it was a joke and not meant to offend anyone.

C. LIGHTEN UP YOU FREAKIN BABIES!!! I understand that people can get easily offended these days, but the bottom line is we live in a very culturally diverse society and everyone can find something that "offends" them. If everyone one complained each time that happened, there would be a lot of WHINING and unhappy people wouldn't there be? That seems to be the attitude of this F'ing forum in the last couple months. Geesh, grow up, take a pill, relax, have a drink, there's no need to get upset over every little issue we face.

edit: grammer

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'87GT Fully modded, 3" Drop on 17's 3800SC on the way....or a turbo
'92 LeBaron soft top, The Players car.

fieros only

[This message has been edited by SLAMMED87GT (edited 11-19-2003).]

This is my opinion, so please treat as such, an opinion, not fact, not set in stone, but a personal feeling of the things I have seen and learned and beleive.

my opinion is that color, race, nationality, your accent and anything else that may be different about you does not determine the type of person you are. To call someone "Colored" is inappropriate, that much is certain. But in this context, it is more of a socia parody. Someone making light of a decades old term used for a racial slur, they are pointing out how silly this slur is, that colored at best in extremely inaccurate. I dont completely agree with the style with which it was written but im certain the author had his reason for using the style he did. This "joke" is pointing out that the old terms and slurs are becoming more of a joke than anything else, people should not get offended at this "joke." If it were a "white" person telling the joke, it would not go over so well, simply because he isnt "black" and would not have the first hand experience. however, if a "black" person tells this "joke" it takes on a new light.

I do not see this as being offensive at all, it is a commentary and someones opinion on an outdated and old slur. Truly, the point of this joke was to show that the old ways are going away. this cannot happen though is people get "offended" at something as obviously silly and lighthearted as this joke. Move on, lose your own bigotry. If you cant move on, how can anyone else?

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SLAP, SLAP, SQUISH! (Penny-Arcade)

"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
The Doctor (Robot, 1974/5)

quote Originally posted by Wudman: Toddster.. My reference was not an assualt on your MLK comment, no clarification needed. Now as far as a good "redneck" joke, I live to close to Southern Indiana to add one to any future stand-up act. I have a feeling that a even if I told a "redneck" joke, allegedly written by a "redneck" to a "redneck" crowd, I might want to watch my back as I exited the theater, if not when I walked off the stage.

Sadly, you might be right there. But I guess what I am saying is that someone has to be big first.

I've seen first hand the treatment of African Americans when I lived in Atlanta. I can't deny your right to be offended by a lot of bad history. But it will end...eventually. In the meantime, be the bigger person. We can influence people better with our deeds than our words.

Stimpy was right. The joke was tacky. But it was still funny. Join in with us on the laugh.

And I'm looking forward to hearing that Hillybilly someday

quote Originally posted by Voytek: Then perhaps it would be more beneficial for you to start fighting derogatory statements within your own kind first.

The bar gets lower.

So much for the "joke", the thread has been much funnier. I can understand those who whine about BET, but don't acknowledge that there 350+ channels that historically don't cater to "my kind". As if ABC, NBC and CBS have stellar records in ethnic programming to this day, not? To this day there is very little quality minority programming on the networks. Opportunities for those lucky enough to be something other than stereotyped idiots is the exception, not the rule. The few that will whine about Black History Month, the NAACP, the Negro College Fund and other ethnically centered organizations have skin far thinner than mine has suggested to be. Is there really any comparision to the resources, holidays, scholarships and organizations available for groups that are considered ethnically a "minority", even if they were grouped together versus those for Americans of European descent?

As far as working on "my kind" when it comes to bigotry, I hold everyone to the same standard. If thinking that a joke that stereotypes one group to pander to another for a laugh is "Anal" or "Moronic", so be it. I would say though, that someone who choose to respond to another's opinion by so labeling them, is probably far more qualified in those areas.

As far as those who embrace marginal ethnic references to their European heritage, I would venture that if I used that term with lets say, stinking, dirty, stupid, etc, you would go ballistic. Heck, already someone from the "real" south got all bent because I used the word "redneck" in a sentance. Oddly enough, when another member used it before me, he didn't seem so bothered as did no one else.

Unfortunately many attitudes won't just fade away. I find a vigorous debate far more healthy than turning away. Some have debated, some have not. In any case, I don't think this will cause me to sell either my black, white, silver, gold or maroon Fieros, unless the price is right...

[This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 11-19-2003).]

I'm white. I have watched stuff like the Kings of Comedy (yeah, right) and get kinda pissed at that sh*t. Why? Not because it offends me, but because I can't say the same about them. A lot of it is ripping on white people, which is okay these days. Hell, there was an episode of the simpsons with a black comedian telling anti-white jokes. That's all good, though, apparently.

Wudman, it's a hypocritical society. America gives blacks a lot of freedom of speech when it comes to racial stuff (BET, Ebony magazine, etc) which us white people don't get. WET will never happen, neither will Ivory magazine- those would be racist.

Point is, you can't spend time dwelling on stupid crap like that joke. I found it quite funny. Who was it poking fun at? Both sides, I guess, but what does that really matter anyway. Lots of jokes are offensive, get over it.

quote Originally posted by Wudman:The bar gets lower. So much for the "joke", the thread has been much funnier. I can understand those who whine about BET, but don't acknowledge that there 350+ channels that historically don't cater to "my kind". As if ABC, NBC and CBS have stellar records in ethnic programming to this day, not? To this day there is very little quality minority programming on the networks. Opportunities for those lucky enough to be something other than stereotyped idiots is the exception, not the rule. The few that will whine about Black History Month, the NAACP, the Negro College Fund and other ethnically centered organizations have skin far thinner than mine has suggested to be. Is there really any comparision to the resources, holidays, scholarships and organizations available for groups that are considered ethnically a "minority", even if they were grouped together versus those for Americans of European descent? As far as working on "my kind" when it comes to bigotry, I hold everyone to the same standard. If thinking that a joke that stereotypes one group to pander to another for a laugh is "Anal" or "Moronic", so be it. I would say though, that someone who choose to respond to another's opinion by so labeling them, is probably far more qualified in those areas.[This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 11-19-2003).]

My intent was not to label you anything. perhaps bigotry was the wrong or too strong a word. perhaps racial bias would have been better?

again, this is only my opinion, but you seem really hung up on your own racial prejudices. I cant beleive that the only thing you got out of my post was the word "bigotry." perhaps I should remove that statement entirely from my post so that you can see the rest of it more clearly.

now that I think about it, that was too strong a word. here is that parageaph again, with the offending word removed, it was the wrong word to use and did not convey my true meaning.

quote I do not see this as being offensive at all, it is a commentary and someones opinion on an outdated and old slur. Truly, the point of this joke was to show that the old ways are going away. this cannot happen though is people get "offended" at something as obviously silly and lighthearted as this joke. Move on, lose your own racial biases. If you cant move on, how can anyone else?

if you still cant see the meaning of my post then you never will. the only thing we can hope for is to move on from such childish things as labeling someone by color. Truly, that is how I saw this joke, showing that the using "colored" as a slur is imply absurd and a joke, it shows just how silly and stupid that "slur" is.

[This message has been edited by yashmack (edited 11-19-2003).]

"...there is very little quality minority programming on the networks."

True. Not surprising, though, since there is very little quality programming of ANY kind on the networks, or elsewhere.

I don't watch tv, so help me get calibrated here. What shows do cater to "your kind"? Was the Cosby show a good show? Is Whoopi's show? Others?

I guess my ancestors came from Norway. I've never seen a school insist on all the students trying lutefisk and lefsa, and learning about Erik the red.

I'm not looking for a vigorous debate, but an informative discussion would have been nice. I've asked quite a few questions and got no answers, not that I feel you are obligated to answer.

Holy crap. I don't ever think I have seen a post where so many people chime in the exact same thing.

Talk about beating a dead horse

quote Originally posted by yashmack: [This message has been edited by yashmack (edited 11-19-2003).]

Wasn't even thinking about your post on this one yashmack. That was directed at the author of the "my kind" remark.

Hung up, not even, not even upset. Just taking an opportunity to express my point on the joke and as usual on this board the snowball hits the fan and sprays crap everywhere. This was about in my opinion, a lame joke that used a term and a voice that is generally applied in an unflattering fashion that slewed all over the place.

quote Originally posted by Wudman: Wasn't even thinking about your post on this one yashmack. That was directed at the author of the "my kind" remark. Hung up, not even, not even upset. Just taking an opportunity to express my point on the joke and as usual on this board the snowball hits the fan and sprays crap everywhere. This was about in my opinion, a lame joke that used a term and a voice that is generally applied in an unflattering fashion that slewed all over the place.

I do apologise then, I hope everyone does see the meaning of my post. I dont agree with your opinion personally, but you have seen my opinion as well.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor:FEEDLIEDORF!

that right there is my new favorite word!

I edited my post, but it still was my opinion, and I was not bashing blacks.

[This message has been edited by 1985FieroGT (edited 11-19-2003).]

WOW.
I have to say that as soon as I saw the title listing to this thread I pretty much knew what I would probably find in here before even clicking on it. Sure enough, a few seconds later as it loaded up I saw exactly what I thought I would.
No flame or insult aimed at anyone in particular here but wow, there are some uneeded insults being thrown around.
First of all, anyone thinking of posting anything like this in subject matter needs to try and remember first where they are. This is not only an internet forum, but one that has lately on occassion generated on any given post the kind of verbal reactions that you might commonly find in a bar room brawl
The flashing red bars on some proves that. And that happens in the general chat area. But now lets add the O/T area and a subject and title just screaming of controversy and some of you react like you are shocked by the attitudes of some after reading it. What did you truly think you would get for reactions? Did you think that "everyone" would find it funny? Lets be honest, this isn't just your run of the mill blond joke here and I am surprised that avengador1 didn't know better on this one.
Sadly I am not shocked at all anymore by the attitudes that many on here like to throw around in posts, especially after reading the reactions some had to people like Wudmans here showing that not everyone feels the same way. Calling him a moron, etc for expressing his feelings is certainly wrong. You can agree or disagree with someone, but to try and justify your opinion or point of view by insulting the another in the process is maybe the real joke here.

Now, I have actually met John Wudman. He came into the New England area a few years ago in his Fiero and we welcomed him into our home. We didn't know much about him other than from his web site and a few e-mails. We didn't know his race, age, color, height, eye shade, length of hair, TV show favorites, shirt size or much of anything else for that matter. It never came up and more importantly it didn't matter. After meeting him we were very impressed, as we have been after meeting most Fiero owners in person. He impressed us as a very knowledgeable and intelligent man.
My family also found him to be a very humorous human being as well.
Now, I am not going to argue that his point of view on this is right and everyone else is wrong or vice versa. I think part of the problem here is that everyone has their own feelings and ideas of what is funny and what is not.
If I had never met Wudman, I might not have thought much more about this joke myself other than my own feelings of what a few others seem to think is funny.
But I have met him. After seeing his reaction to this "joke", it made me think a bit more about it. It actually made me relook at the joke and try and see it more from his point of view. As I know and respect this man I knew that he was not just some raging lunatic on the net spewing thier one sided views and feelings on the rest. So I read and re-read his points and I can say now that I can better see where he is coming from. I see it now as education of a sort.
Until someone tells you something is wrong, how would you know otherwise? Not everything comes to us on it's own and is common sense obvious as the world sadly shows us on a daily basis.
He is saying that he feels this joke is wrong. Even if you do not agree, you should at least be able to agree that he can disagree just as you can. If it helps change your perspective even the slightest in the process, maybe so much the better. That is part of the education process I guess.
Some here think that this joke is OK as it isn't much different than what they have seen before. If you always grew up crapping on the back lawn, how would you know any different?
I also can see what the joke was trying to say, but maybe the ends don't always justify the means.
I kind of look at the joke here like this:
Would I see a joke like this in the Readers Digest? Would I myself feel comfortable saying this "joke" in a mixed crowd, made up mostly of people I didn't really know?
My answer would be no.
In fact to be honest, I wouldn't have thought twice about passing it on or posting it, especially on a public internet forum.
To be fair, I have also met John (avengador1) Forgot your last name
I have found him to also be a great person to know. One the many times I have met him he has always seemed to be a very knowledgeable and intelligent person as well. So maybe this was something that he thought at the moment to be humorous and wanted to share in a place he enjoys hanging out at. It doesn't matter now. We have all read many of the opinions, reactions, views and attitudes from others here including Wudman, a man who also has first hand knowledge and experience from which to give his point of view from. I wonder how many may now feel just a little bit differently than they did at the begining of this about this subject?
If it changes the perpective of even one person just a little bit, maybe this joke had a silver lining after all.

Anyway, since we are going to continue to discuss this, lets try and at least do it in an intelligent and adult manner if we can.
Sorry for the book. I'll try and shut up now

Steve

[This message has been edited by Fiero5 (edited 11-19-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Wudman: So much for the "joke", the thread has been much funnier. I can understand those who whine about BET, but don't acknowledge that there 350+ channels that historically don't cater to "my kind". As if ABC, NBC and CBS have stellar records in ethnic programming to this day, not? To this day there is very little quality minority programming on the networks.

Ok. As my high school football used to say many moons ago, "Back to the fundamentals." There is no media conspiracy be it liberal, conservative, satanic, christian, racist or otherwise. Programming is driven by advertising dollars. If your product (TV, movie, paper, website, etc.) consistently attracts viewers, the price of advertising goes up. Commercial television is ALL about advertising. If you don't attract viewers, you go off the air. Period.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion but understand it is completely, wholly and totally racist. Somehow you've managed to convince yourself that television networks care more about what color you are than how much money they can make.

I assure you that corporate America won't mind me acting as their spokesperson when I say:

That's just plain stupid.

Networks aren't required to have 'stellar' records in 'ethnic' programming; if you don't like what you're watching, do the obvious--change the channel.

-Jeff

p.s. Do you consider Oprah Winfrey to be ethnic programming? She's generally acknowledged as one of the most powerful, if not THE most powerful producer in television.

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: [/toilet flushing] [This message has been edited by 1985FieroGT (edited 11-19-2003).]

The future of our country speaks. And it ain't pretty.

Wow Stimpy, pigs must be flying today because I am agreeing with you on both points

1985FieroGT, your recent comments are so uncalled for I hope you win the new getting banned record

Steve

quote Originally posted by stimpy: The future of our country speaks. And it ain't pretty.

No **** , I am the future of our country also, I totally dont agree with that, it was totally immature and TOTALLY not needed, If it has any effect on your opinons Stimpy, Im 18 and like I said before TOTALLY disagree with what he said, it was childish, rude and has nothing to do with the thread. Other than bashing a "black" person. Ill tell you guys what I work with 1 black person, and My Bestfriend is Black. Ive showed both of them this joke, they found it down right hilarious. The Guy I work with always refers to himself as "black man" Me and him have racial slurs back and forth all the time all for fun! He doesnt care at all. He Told me Last Week, Man Adam, Getting 14 hours a week at work was good, but 21 hours is Over working a Black Man. << there is some of his humor for you!

But speaking for my age group, Disregard 1985's Comment it definately wasnt needed.

Adam

Edit: Fixed my spelling mistakes

[This message has been edited by Arizona85GT (edited 11-19-2003).]

I am always put back by the bazaar thought process that if someone else, in this case another black person, doesn't have a problem with something possibly insulting like this joke then it has to be OK and shame on anyone else who thinks differently.
What if you worked with an elderly person and you tossed elderly jokes back and forth, would that make it OK? I bet if another elderly person came along and overheard you, they just might not feel the same way. Just because one person thinks it's OK and is not insulted by it doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.
I think we are seeing that same reaction here.
I think this link is a good example of how attitudes about this kind of thing can change: http://www.teenink.com/Past/1991/2018.html

Just as I thought this was going away..

quote Originally posted by JeffMN: Your certainly entitled to your opinion but understand it is completely, wholly and totally racist. Somehow you've managed to convince yourself that television networks care more about what color you are than how much money they can make.

Interesting that when people get to object to BET programming because it is cash driven in a specialty market. They get their panties up in a wad and wish for "WET" with no comment from the gallery or you Jeff. I presume that BET has same rights to create profit driven programming, just like Univision? Someone must be paying to get a piece of that market not being intelligently addressed by the networks. Is what is good for NBC/CBS/ABC not good for BET because that network targets a minority market?

Jeff, help me to understand who the network programs shows for where Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are for the most part portrayed as buffons? If you watch the commercials that go with many of those shows, it seems clear that they do target ethnic groups. Money isn't exclusively an Anglo thing.

So, do you feel better now that you have called me a racist for having an issues in regard to major network programming when it comes to minorities? Next time cut to the chase if you don't like my opinion instead of backing up why you think I am a racist with an argument as strong as a wet paper bag.

By the way, the airways that they use are public airways, supported in part by we, the tax paying citizens. Last time I checked, we all pay off the same tax tables. No box to check that gives breaks for ethnic heritage. On top of that, BET is on cable. I figure I have every right to express my dismay as long as the networks get a free ride on using the airways. Especially when those networks target groups with ignorant programming that furthers stereotypes. Again, I doubt WET will happen, not because someone's idea of sensitivity will be offended, but because there is no market for it. Instead of whining about BET, fund your WET!

So far the talley of insults in response to my opinion have included some of the usual, albeit restrained creative stuff. Thin skinned, moron, Anal, racist, and stuff completely deleted, etc just because I have my own opinion. Personally I am glad to have waded in on the "joke", for a few reasons, here many have disagreed in an articulate fashion and a few prefer to just hurl.

Edit for grammer and shouts to my bud Steve
: Howdee Plainfield, NH! Thanks for the shouts, if you need my nomex, you can have it. Since this thread has started, it has gotten pretty warm here in S. IL and I haven't needed to chuck a log into the stove. That was a fine road trip up your way in NH!

[This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 11-19-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Wudman: ....Jeff, help me to understand who the network shows wher Blacks, Hispanics and Asians are for the most part buffons?

This is the precise root of the racism in your arguments; you choose to group people based on their race. From there your arguments blossom into further distinctions all based around race.

The rest of your post is beyond the worth and dignity of a response.

Bye.

-Jeff

quote Originally posted by JeffMN: This is the precise root of the racism in your arguments; you choose to group people based on their race. From there your arguments blossom into further distinctions all based around race. The rest of your post is beyond the worth and dignity of a response. Bye. -Jeff

Excuse me Jeff, but what thread are you in? As far as dignity is concerned, you jumped right in with both feet calling me a "racist" for having expectations of those major networks and defending BET's right to the same kind of profit driven programming. Hurl and run, now there isn't much dignity in that.

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: I guess my ancestors came from Norway. I've never seen a school insist on all the students trying lutefisk and lefsa, and learning about Erik the red.

My ancestors came from Sweden. About lutefisk...I don't think that's really a bad thing.

Wudman,
First of all, I want to apoligize for calling you a moron earlier. It was totally inappropriate. I was acting on my emotions at the time...never a good idea. Next time I'll use my brain before I place a post.

Secondly, I have a great sense of humor. I even make fun of myself and my own race. That's why I didn't have a problem with the joke. I just think you're getting worked up over nothing...at least to me it's nothing.

If you're offended, so be it. Have a sense of humor, it was just a joke. It wasn't meant to do any harm. If it did, that's because you let it. You don't have to dissect everything you read.

He obviously didn't think about what he may stir up if he posted it. I agree, that joke would definitely offend some people. That's just a fact of life though...someone is always going to be offended.

I do respect your opinion and see where you're coming from. This is obviously a touchy subject for you.

wudman,

What shows are you watching? That was certainly true 20 years ago, but I don't see it now. I know there are several mostly black sitcoms... I just watched "My Wife and Kids" tonight. Sure the characters are silly, but then it is a sitcom... white people are silly on sitcoms too {ever watch Three's Company ? ).

Some of my favorite dramatic shows (ER, Third Watch and CSI for example) have serious black main characters. Several episodes have even focused primarily on their character.

I'm not slamming BET. I understand the need for shows that can be written for a black audience to identify with... without having to worry about a predominately white audience not getting it. I just don't see blacks exclusively playing the comic relief or token role any more on network TV.

My 2 cents. If someone is offended by something-it's offensive.
I originally read that 'joke' a couple of years ago. Found it offensive then & still do. Tho I did find it somewhat interesting in a social light-as a commentary on what caucasians are, as opposed to what they think they are. I didn't find it funny. And, I don't believe it was written to be funny, or by a black man/woman. Maybe some Americans still speak like that, but I've never met anyone who writes that way. I have a very strong West Texas drawl, but I don't write in those terms.
Having grown up in a very racist 50's, I can understand where Wudman is coming from I think. Pretty deplorable era, both in mainstream TV, radio, and in real life. I'm not saying it should be forgotten or brushed aside as if it didn't happen, but it shouldn't be used as a venue for humor either. Hopefully, we are beyond tha type of derogatory humor. Add to it, the use of the term 'colored', which is a term given strictly to blacks by the white race, and it just gets that much worse. I never heard anyone refer to any other race as 'colored'.
It certainly wasn't coined to refer to all non-whites.
I'm reminded of the black man who asked "And what color would I be?", when refered to by that term.

People can & do make fun of themselves as sterotypes, such as Asians with cameras. It's not uncommon to see Japanese movies where they poke fun at themselves in that manner. I see people here in Texas telling "Texan jokes" that highlight our stereotype frequently.
The text we are talking about is making fun of an ill percieved and rude belief that one specific segment of our population is less intelligent or less educated than another, and that is where the offensiveness arises.
It's not dialect, it's well, just as I said above. I doubt that the current rap or gansta speak will ever be considered offensive, say in 50-75 years down the road, anymore than the cliches of the beatnik or hippie generations will be. It may be looked upon as odd, but not offensive because it doesn't imply ignorance, as the posted 'joke' does.

Like I say, just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree, but I won't back off of it.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-20-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Wudman: One has to love the anonymity of the net which is a world away from having this discussion in a group. I would ask who of you that enjoyed this so much would tell this in an ethnically mixed group?

I would. I don't find this offensive. This deals with the fact that White people change color and Blacks don't, or should I say it's not as noticeable. Jokes are based on differances which we all have. Some of these differences are amusing some aren't.

What I am tired of hearing is the race card constantally being thrown out by the black community. You don't hear things like that from the Hispanics who are now the "majority minority" which has the black community all upset politically. Latinos are hard working people who are very close to thier families. It's not like that in the black community as a whole in my opinion. They are to busy killing and stepping on each other to try and make a easy buck.

I wish this one thing which is very simple. The black community needs to get off thier butts and stop acting like whites owe them something, we don't. The slavery thing was a hundred years ago in the United States. Hell it's still going on in other countries. If the black community is so upset over that issue how come they aren't over there doing something about it? Simple there is no money in it for them.

Am I a racist...........hmmmm, Yes to a degree, but who made me this way? The black community did by it's actions, not my parents, teachers or friends. It was the Blacks and thier constant bitching and over all laziness that has caused it.

I do have friends and nieghbors that are black and we've had this conversation and we get along very well. One has his son in Boy Scouts with mine and he is great on our midnight hikes. Why, simply because he is black and blends into the background at night when we go snipe hunting. Thats another story.

I'm finished now, was it harsh, yes, but I need my say also.

[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 11-20-2003).]