Ouch. Very disgustingly aired FieroGT87. We can all do without the common rhetoric spewed by blind and ignorant people that care not for the offended. When will your kind learn; Racism divides the world. Can you say 9/11. Open mouth, insert foot.
Rather, Draw not black lines where none is needed.
As to the "Race card" response, I believe Snoop Dogg did a skit on his show "Doggie-Fizzle" about that. Hilarious.
Now...the task at hand. Wudman is putting out a stimulating conversation based around this one joke. He finds it offensive. From what I can read in his responses and arguments is that he is offended by the lingo, if you will. It is too common to stereotypically refer to everyone of a race strictly by the actions, comments, and agendas of a few. Stereotyping ghetto-talk with the black race is offensive to quite a few, and those that are offended look at the lingo as we do; uneducated talk that shows the shortcomings of one person. When that is attributed to the community, people will be offended.
As Jeff Foxworthy once said: (paraphrased)
"It's not that Southerners aren't smart, but we just cant keep the most ignorant of our people off the television."
This can be applied to all.
BTW: 19yo Scottish Ancestry* BLUE BLOODED AMERICAN!!!
You can call me anything you want, ignorant, etc. Thats the way I see it. Disgusting, yes it was. But the thing is that is why there is so much racial tension. It goes much deeper than the joke. So why air this here drawing lines? Well the "joke" started it but the fact that people need to get past this including me is why. This is a very touchy subject with me and obviously it shows.
It's not so much as what I wrote on the previous page, but it's the truth as I see it. I understand that the black community is taking advantage of the system of government that is in place. But how did it get that way? By using the race card and saying poor me. They guilted the politians into passing laws in their favor. We have affirmative action which at one time I agree was needed but it isn't anymore. With high paying jobs going overseas good jobs are harder to come by and just because your black you should get the job over someone more qualified, now that causes racial tension. Then yes you have BET, Ebony awards, Negro College Fund, etc. that are stictly for blacks only. Whites can't do that anywhere else. It's ok for blacks to be racist but not whites. Give me a break.
Yes I'm tired of it. If blacks want to be treated equally they need to pull their fair share of the wieght without special treatment. Then we can start to get past racial tensions.
Do we have the power to change anything? Maybe not immediately but if one talks with another then another then ideals change, laws change etc. It starts with one persons idea. Dr. King had a dream, and I don't think this was it.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT87 (edited 11-20-2003).]
This is the most racist thing I have ever seen on this forum! I cannot believe that this black man thinks he has the right to call us crackers colored! Who does he think he is? I'm calling the NAAWP! I'm calling... Wait, there is no NAAWP. There is no Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton for me to call...
Now on to a serious note.. Anyone who thinks this is offensive is just looking for something to be offended about. Since it was written by a black man should mean that you can't try to use this as racism against a white man.
The funny this is that when I say 'Ya'll' or 'ain't' it apparently just typifies me as a backwards ignorant Southerner (I can prove that is far from correct, btw). I speak that way because I want to. Because that is how MY people speak... By MY, I mean the people in me lineage.
But if a black man writes something intended to be humorous and used the dialect of HIS people (again HIS meaning people in his lineage), nowadays it is twisted into racism and social injustice... Maybe this man is proud of his roots regardless of whether society thinks he should be or not... Hey! Kinda like me!
As said many times through this post... Puullllleeeezzzeee lighten up.
LOL thats what I heard. God opened the window to heaven and didn't like what he saw so he said, Piss on it. Then Halleluiah the Grand Canyon was formed.
I have lived on the same college campus for 3 semisters now. This is the biggest and most thurough mix of people from around the world I've ever been in. I've learned SO much from all the people I've come into contact with. I've talked with people from about 20 states, Tiawan, India, Japan, China, Indonesia, Russia, England, Spain, Mexico, and pleanty more. My roomate last year was a Puerto-Rican.
Included in this mix are African-Americans. I've walked by, stood in line behind and in front of, sat by at the bus stop, on the bus, in the theater, and in class, lived near in the dorms, worked with, and been friends with LOTS of African-Americans EVERY day. I would have to say that 3 out of 10 have SPOKEN proper English. The rest have some sort of dialect, whether it be ebonics, a heavy foreign accent, or some such other thing.
Thier dialect does not mean they are uneducated. For crying out loud, they're in COLLEGE. (Most of these persons are seniors, juniors, and a few sophomores, so no college dropouts here.)
So Wudman, how can you be offended by someone typing in a dialect that is actually SPOKEN by people in the same lineage as yourself, who are just as educated if not more so than yourself?
PLEASE realize I'm not trying to bash ANYONE. These are my ACTUAL findings from my own surroundings. I only ask you this to try to understand someone who is different from myself, just as I do each time I talk to someone here on campus about something other than professors and the latest gossup.
It is a sad state of affair to see the deep rooted hatred by us Americans that is still embedded in society today and I get chills even reading the response to the subject but I just could not sit back without saying some thing. I am a black man born in Jamaica (American citizen)migrated to this country in the 60's when racism was very very bad I also had first hand experience of being told to get off the bus ,****** we don't serve your kind in here,go back where you came from you monkey and all the other remarks I was treated so bad by white people that I developed a deep hatred for the race because the way I was treated and you can imagine how I felt after being subjected to this kind off treatment especially when I was not subjected to this kind of treatment in my country where it is 95% black but we all got along and our motto "Out Of Many One People" and we could teach America this way of living to love each other. I served in the navy and came out and went to Japan to study automotive developement and those 4 years changed my way of thinking of other people,I was showed so much love that I married a Japanese wife and then asked my self why is America like that no one likes me because of my skin color but I have grown older and have recognized that not all white people are bad or hate black people just like vice versa,another thing I can see where Wudman is coming from as an African American born in this country as opposed to me born in a foreign country and not subjected to racism except of the few experience that I came across.Until you walk a mile in a situation and know the feelings it is hard to give an accurate feeling so if he is offended by this joke you would not know why. As to the BET situation there is nothing wrong if they chose to cater to the black audience it is all about $$$$ and by the way it is white owned just like Telemundo they cater to the large latino community $$$ again. We wonder why America is being hated in europe and the middle east we need to show more love and respect other people views and custom as of imposing our way of thinking on them...this is a new world order and changes are going to come and there is nothing we can do at this stage the arabs,latinos,chinese,muslims are now a force to be reckoned with and we will have to all get along for the sake of humanity so to end this book.... white people,blacks and every ethnic group we need love and the big man upstair God ,Allah,Rastafari,Jehovah.
Master, of course I respect your position because you lived something I didn't... But the United States of the 60s is a totally different place than the United States of today. I think there will always be fanatical groups inside any race/group that will try to keep the hatred going. But the average rank and file citizen that I know doesn't care anything about the color of a person's skin.
I grew up in the South where that N word was thrown around like it was nothing. Luckily, I had enough sense from childhood to know that it wasn't a good thing. My family never used it either. Wanna talk stereotype? I'm stereotyped more than any black man. I'm a Southern man that respects his heritage... so I am tagged as a racist. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I have friends of all races, all colors, all religions... even sexual affiliations. While I don't always agree with choices or ideals that my friends may hold, that doesn't make them any less my friend.
As I have said many times, in my eyes the problem is, and will always be, that people of races that have been put down at some time still live in the past and want payback. If there is to be real equality, this type of thinking has to go away and start with a clean slate. All races have been in bondage at one time or another, even us evil white folks.
I think where this thread went wrong is where people started yelling racism. That generally is the problem in any situation. We have people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton running around trying to make a name and playing the racism card. If race does not matter, these people should quit trying to make race an issue. This thread was not about race. It was turned into a racism thread. This is a perfect example of what is wrong in the world if you ask me.
Your argument is faulty. It fails on many levels. May I suggest a class in Philosophy if you haven’t taken one yet? It will help you could construct a better argument.
The most basic form of argument construction is as follows:
A=B, B=C therefore A=C
It works in math most of the time, but offers many pitfalls in argument form.
For example: All ripe Strawberries are red, All Stop signs are red Therefore All ripe Strawberries are Stop signs.
To minimize any issues with the redness of strawberries, I qualified them as ripe. Furthermore, we shall assume this argument is talking about “All” stop signs in the United States being the typical red ones.
I don't need a Venn diagram to understand that is a faulty argument.
I am sorry, but just because you go to a college that 3 of 10 Blacks you rub shoulders with speak something other than the "proper English" you assume you speak, doesn't mean it reflects anyone's lineage, especially mine. Furthermore, it says more about your college and those you hang out with than present any evidence representing how many Blacks speak “proper English”.
I have listened for, but not heard "I be navigating on a KC135", or "I be going to do some surgery" or even "I be going to drive my Fiero" within the “lineage” I can attribute to my family, living or dead or that of any of my Black friends. Now what I hear from my rural neighbors in Southern Illinois is entirely a different dialect, but they are not my lineage or even Black. Using your logic though, they must be since they don't speak "Proper English".
I do have a bunch of Black friends, some naturalized citizens, some not, from Bermuda, not anywhere near that aforementioned lineage of mine, or I doubt yours, that really speak "Proper English". I would venture a guess they have a better handle on the language than most Americans that have United States citizenship.
I like how, no, I am being facetious, I don't like how many have wrapped some fairly vile stuff with a smile. It goes to show that attitudes are so institutionalized when it comes to race, people don't even know they are contributing to the problem. (or if they do, they just don’t care)
Another one of those faulty arguments used in this thread has been about BET:
For those of you that have been hammering on BET, if you really have a problem with it, write VIACOM, they own the BET network. VIACOM is a shareholder driven company that represents the best interests of a large cross section of investors, most of which are NOT Black. May I present the CEO and President of VIACOM, the ultimate authorities on BET... Summer Redstone Mel Karmazin So the next person that jumps up and has an issue with BET, which by the way was off this off topic, take it to the rich non-Blacks who run the company that owns the network.
-MasterTunerAkimoto & others of the diverse Fiero community who have spoken wise words here and in private, my pleasure making your acquaintance. In particular MTA, I can understand where you are coming from, from a few angles. One, I lived in Spain from 6 to 10 years old. We moved back to St. Louis in the early '70's. My brother, sisters and I spoke with a heavy accent and a mixture of Spanish and English, picked up by living in a rural Spain. (So much more culture to be immersed in was my Dad's thought when it came to choosing the base, the American community near Torrejon AFB, or the town of El Plantio for residence). Although some from every community were hostile, those in the European-American community would add, "Go back where you came from" along with the "N" word. Now I have always loved Hyannis, MA where I was born, but unfortunately that wasn't going to happen.
The other angle is that in this country, though there is particularly poor treatment meted out for Black immigrants, especially from the Caribbean, there is enough to go around for those born here who have never called anyplace but this country home. Then the majority wonders why non-white people in this country have a bone to pick. As if someone waved a wand in 1964 and said, gee, you can finally really vote, so be happy, we fixed it all.
I can still count on some incredibly ignorant moments in a region where Blacks make up less than 2% of the population. I doubt this treatment is because the 98% have been mistreated in any way by the 2%. I doubt that anyone around here has had their car "rigged" by a Black. Most likely, they "*rigged" it themselves. I have run into as much ignorance in Northern California and Nevada, they just speak better English, albeit it questionable if it is “proper”, when they do it.
Finally, some have used this discussion as a place to vent their pent up issues. The unspoken hatred is well represented as well, given the few responses to some truly ignorant, blatantly racist postings. I applaud those who had the backbone to keep it on track as well as speaking up against those who need some kind of therapy. One thing I have learned over the years of putting up with in-your-face racism and bigotry is that you don't allow the truly ignorant to bait you down to their level. It is better to beat them upside the brain with dialogue than a stick, though sometimes a stick would seem more appropriate. ------------------
[This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 12-03-2003).]
Allow the true future of this country to speak... and you know what I say?
KILL WHITEY!
Thanks Jeff, that's a winner. It only goes to show that those who are racially and/or intellectually challenged come in all shades though don't represent anything but their own, personal issues. At least there is comfort in knowing that this comment is generally only found in a few old movies that sucked back in the early seventies and a few documentaries of the day. In either case, it ranks right up there with the some of the stupid stuff said in this thread.
So the next person that jumps up and has an issue with BET, which by the way was off this off topic, take it to the rich non-Blacks who run the company that owns the network.
You missed the point. I was the one who brought up BET on page one. If you would do me the favor and go back and re-read, you would notice that my point was completely different. I was merely pointing out that WET will never be allowed because it would be racist, while BET is not considered to be.
I am rather disappointed in you. Your claims of others making incorrect arguments have just taken a dive on the credibility scale.
You missed the point. I was the one who brought up BET on page one. If you would do me the favor and go back and re-read, you would notice that my point was completely different. I was merely pointing out that WET will never be allowed because it would be racist, while BET is not considered to be.
I am rather disappointed in you. Your claims of others making incorrect arguments have just taken a dive on the credibility scale.
First, you are not the only one to bring up BET in here. Second, are you saying that you consider BET to be racist? If so, please say so as you have your right to your opinion on this, but I would like to know. Third, I have heard many who have said they think BET's programming is racist. I have to admit, I don't watch much BET and didn't, even when I had a zillion satellite stations pumped into my cabin.
Instead of lamenting a lack "WET", you could turn on one of VIACOM's other networks like CMT while working for an ideal "WET". In my opinion, "WET" for the most part, is represented by dozens, if not hundreds of channels. I doubt the main reason there is not a single network "WET" is that someone might think it is racist. Clearly, despite the railing against BET, the "WTE" (in this case, White Television Executives) figure there is a buck to be made.
As far as my credibility with you being diminished, thanks for acknowledging I had some at all, with you at least. Now what a faulty argument has to do with my post about VIACOM and suggesting who those that have a problem with BET should whine to, is beyond me.
Since you want to bring up your specific comment about how "WET" would be considered racist. I wouldn't really care if you had a "WET" and it was sponsored by the KKK. Those who would pay to support that programming have the same right as BET, VIACOM, you or I do when it comes to the First Amendment and a few more when it comes to cable programming.
The only thing is that it takes money to broadcast them on a national scale. I, as well as you have a right to navigate around those channels that have programming we don't appreciate. Some TVs even let you delete the offending channels.
Now if your ideal "WET" is going to fail before it gets out of the box because some group(s) finds it distasteful, I guess it doesn't deserve channel space as of yet. BET is a cable network that seems to be thriving despite that clearly, some folks are mad because they don't have a "WET" to promote programming that is, for a lack of better term, "Euro-American" specific.
In BETs case, people seem to ignore who owns BET and claim reverse discrimination as what is keeping some ideal version of "WET" down. Many also ignore the overwhelming amount of programming directed at non-whites and no one has even flinched when it comes to Spanish language network programming that dwarfs BET as an example.
I wonder if the same objection to BET, which is really what "I don't have "WET" is about, works with Univision or Telemundo as the example of ethnically centered programming that is supported by ad revenues? It seems that targeting BET is generally off base considering the following:
"HOUSTON -- In New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, the No. 1 network for nightly news among adults ages 18 to 34 is not ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox or CNN.
It is the Spanish-language network Univision."
I mean really, Spanish language programming has to be more evil that BET is on it's most militant day! Imagine the audacity of programming in this country in a language other than "proper English" that represents the fastest growing minority and political block in the country. It would seem, that at the very minimum, Spanish programming on that scale encourages people that live here not to learn American, I mean "proper English".
By the way, I enjoy Spanish language television, when I get to watch cable or sat TV. It helps with my project to rehabilitate my Spanish and the women are so, well, so fun to watch. For the most part, I prefer TV that tells me something new, whether than be a history, science or public network. Okay, I like Junkyard wars as well.
My point is that in the many boards that I have had this same discussion on, including PFF, no one has ever once mentioned these networks when they whine about how their ideal "WET" is being held down by some groups idea of what is and is not racist programming. (Which I think is different than programming that is generally exclusive or ethnically centered.)
If you get someone to fund "WET", more power to it. I might tune in to put my finger on the pulse of the community that supports that network. In the meantime, I will have to occasionally tune in Rush L. for a semi-articulate expression of that idealism.
Of what, 40 available channels, you have *ONE* "black" network, one "hispanic" network, and 38 White Entertainment Networks.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?!?
Oh, I forgot, Fox, NBC etc are SO not catered to white people Or did they re-cast Friends to include visible minorities?
Oh, and FYI, most children are born white, regardless of race; Melanin production only usually starts a few days after birth. We ALL come out the same.
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-03-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-03-2003).]
Here, here! We have similiar, "can't resist" issues. Thanks for the chuckle! Oh, I appreciate your to the point, terse response, I haven't learned that trick yet.
I think wudman is mach10s bum buddy.They both think there black so they take offence to it
Cool, now we start with the gay jokes. Funny how stupid people ALWAYS resort to them. Well, I'm comfortable with my sexuality. What you say don't bother me none. Can't you do any better to cover your inadequacy?
Before any "WET" advocates get their speedos in a bind, because of my KKK reference, it was put there to make an example of no matter how extreme the sponsor, they have the same rights, no matter how many think they ought to be gagged. It is clear that most of the most ardent supporters of Euro-American heritage, do not support groups such as the KKK.
Then again, this is the PFF so interpretations will be what they will be.
Oh, and FYI, most children are born white, regardless of race; Melanin production only usually starts a few days after birth. We ALL come out the same.
[This message has been edited by Mach10 (edited 12-03-2003).]
Shhh!!! Don't tell them that. Next thing you know, they'll be trying to cure black people.
sorry let me take a guess "your mothers,uncles,cousins,friends boyfriend was black right?
What are you sorry about, not reading the posts where I and another Fiero driver I consider a friend clearly describe my ethnic background? It is clear you haven't read the thread, but choose to barf out a comment here and there. What is throwing off, the inability to detect "Ebonics" in my writing? Read the thread and the mystery will be solved for you.
Shhh!!! Don't tell them that. Next thing you know, they'll be trying to cure black people.
Get that knife away from my nose, if I wanted a laugh, I'd take L44-87GT down to a party in East St. Louis after taping some of his comments to his back.
CMT is offenesive to me as a "white" or "Euro-American" or whatever. WET, would probably be just as offensive and portray us as a bunch of "Confederate flag waving, truck driving, beer drinkin,Yahoo's..." Oh well, all the young Euro-Americans have MTV, where they can be told "Whites have nothing to be proud of.", and lap that crap up and ask for more....
Originally posted by Lex: ...Oh well, all the young Euro-Americans have MTV, where they can be told "Whites have nothing to be proud of.", and lap that crap up and ask for more....
Hmmm, VIACOM owns MTV as well...
now about the truck driving, beer drinking and yahoo thing, I am qualifying here, what is up with that! Hell, my last three trucks were 4x4s, had CB radios and one even had a lift kit! I burn wood for heat, own four chainsaws, (which I use regularly) 5 dogs, and a dirt bike. Of my 1200 CDs, 200 are country, 400 are rock-n-roll and one is by Neil Diamond. When I karaoke, I prefer Van Halen or Steve Miller, I rock out with my guitar way more often that jazz or even funk it up.
If you knew this L44-87GT I could understand your confusion...
Ebonics was not the way blacks talked originally. IT was the poor uneducated whites that talked that way if you do some research into it's history.
Actually blacks talked better than most whites before and up to the time of the civil war. The reason for this is and it was looked favorably upon the plantation owners, etc. to have well manored english speaking servants to take care of the guest.
You may qualify, but no offense. I am just tired of the crap the media aims(becuase they eat it up like sheep) at white America. Emeniem? or worse Toby Keith.
quote
Originally posted by Wudman:
Hmmm, VIACOM owns MTV as well...
now about the truck driving, beer drinking and yahoo thing, I am qualifying here, what is up with that! Hell, my last three trucks were 4x4s, had CB radios and one even had a lift kit! I burn wood for heat, own four chainsaws, (which I use regularly) 5 dogs, and a dirt bike. Of my 1200 CDs, 200 are country, 400 are rock-n-roll and one is by Neil Diamond. When I karaoke, I prefer Van Halen or Steve Miller, I rock out with my guitar way more often that jazz or even funk it up.
If you knew this L44-87GT I could understand your confusion...
now about the truck driving, beer drinking and yahoo thing, I am qualifying here, what is up with that! Hell, my last three trucks were 4x4s, had CB radios and one even had a lift kit! I burn wood for heat, own four chainsaws, (which I use regularly) 5 dogs, and a dirt bike. Of my 1200 CDs, 200 are country, 400 are rock-n-roll and one is by Neil Diamond. When I karaoke, I prefer Van Halen or Steve Miller, I rock out with my guitar way more often that jazz or even funk it up.
Truck driving? Country music? Van Halen? NEIL DIAMOND???
Are you sure you're black?
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 12-03-2003).]
Don't you have a cross to go burn somewhere? Or did you just want to hang around and ***** about minorities to justify your utter failiure as a human being?
I am embarrased that this thread is still alive and kicking. Could you please let it die now. It is obvious that we all still need to do some growing up and some hatchet burying to boot.
Summer Redstone 
Mel Karmazin 
