Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Totally O/T
  An American 2nd Amendment thread (Page 5)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 5 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
An American 2nd Amendment thread by 2.5
Started on: 09-28-2020 04:22 PM
Replies: 181 (2888 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 05-11-2021 04:18 PM
maryjane
Member
Posts: 67503
From: Cleveland Texas
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post05-02-2021 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:


Are you insinuating our government doesn't want to pursue the truth openly?


No.
It (our govt) may not want to, but that was not what my post stated or implied.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-02-2021).]

IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 04:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"How the A.T.F., Key to Biden’s Gun Plan, Became an N.R.A. ‘Whipping Boy’"
 
quote
The federal agency tasked with enforcing gun laws has been hamstrung for years by the firearms lobby. Now, the president’s plan to rein in gun violence hinges on the A.T.F.’s success.
Glenn Thrush, Danny Hakim and Mike McIntire for the New York Times; May 2, 2021.
https://www.nytimes.com/202...cs/atf-nra-guns.html

A "read" indeed . . . 16 minutes (Read-o-Meter.) A plethora of photographs. It's protected by a subscriber paywall, but if you haven't been going online (to the New York Times) you would (should) have access as a "freebie." And if not, there's a "hack" that could get you access, that's been shared by forum member maryjane. You can use this link to read what maryjane said about this.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...ML/126343-2.html#p46

I have not read it or even scrolled through it in any systematic way.

If you are reading this, I think you would not deem it a waste of your time to access the article (if you can do it) and give it a quick "eyes on" to see if it looks like something you would like to read or scroll through.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

IP: Logged
Hudini
Member
Posts: 8322
From: Shanghai, China
Registered: Feb 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 161
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 06:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh the big bad gun lobby representing 5 million citizens? Ha, I would love to hear the salt but alas I cannot force myself to read another progressive diatribe written with the idea that my inalienable constitutional rights are subject to government approval. I am a citizen, not a subject.
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rinse, you ignored my response to you.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

From one of my previous posts:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...L/125575-3.html#p118

I don't know how many guns were "gun-walked" to Mexico during "Fast and Furious" but surely it could only have been like a drop in an ocean of more than 2 million guns.

Would you (2.5) say that the Katie Pavlich video that you just posted contradicts that estimate from Mexico's Foreign Ministry, which was published in the New York Times?


Will you admit that our government violates the regs and laws it claims are there to preserve safety?

IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Rinse, you ignored my response to you.

Will you admit that our government violates the regs and laws it claims are there to preserve safety?

Why is your question worded in a way that suggests that I have ever denied it?

Yes. Taking the government of the United States at all levels, from the most central and national authorities at the federal level, to the most local offices of regional or county or municipal government, and considering every day of every year from 1787 (or 1619) forwards to date, and considering every possibility for government violating the laws, codes, protocols and executive orders (etc.) that pertain to public safety, occupational safety, transportation safety, firearms safety (etc.), there's no doubt that U.S. government has at certain times and for certain periods of time done exactly that (violations of safety) and will doubtless do so again in the future. It is most assuredly happening at this very moment.

Where does your ask or question take us?

I have not read or even scrolled through the 2A-related article that I just posted (three forum messages back from this one) but I think it's likely there is significant intersectionality between this ask or question from "sourmash" and the content of that article.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just reread how you didn't answer the question for insight in why it was asked as it was.

I didn't ask if they acted in a way that subverts public safety. I noted, violates regs and laws, not safety. Laws and regs passed for supposed public safety.

Will you admit that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal regs and laws?

It was asked in an initially certain phrasing because as you know we recognize that your positions are as a media statist and frankly as an apologist for an increasingly authoritarian state.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 05-03-2021).]

IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Just reread how you didn't answer the question for insight in why it was asked as it was.

I didn't ask if they acted in a way that subverts public safety. I noted, violates regs and laws, not safety. Laws and regs passed for supposed public safety.

Will you admit that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal regs and laws?

It was asked in an initially certain phrasing because as you know we recognize that your positions are as a media statist and frankly as an apologist for an increasingly authoritarian state.

It seems inescapable that the FEDERAL government, specifically the BATFE, has violated federal laws and regulations. My mind goes to the "Fast & Furious" operation and other similar "gun-walking" operations during the tenure of U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. But I couldn't tell you exactly which federal laws and regulations were violated. Is there a federal law or regulation (?) that reads "Undercover operations involving straw purchasers of firearms and what would otherwise be illegal firearms trafficking are allowed, but cannot be allowed to spiral out of control and become a government maintained profit center for criminals and criminal organizations."

You changed the wording of your question. Before, you posed it using the present tense: "violates . . ." This time, you used the past tense: "has violated . . ." That makes it easier and more agreeable for me to respond to your question in the affirmative sense of "I admit . . .".

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-03-2021).]

IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
Oh the big bad gun lobby representing 5 million citizens? Ha, I would love to hear the salt but alas I cannot force myself to read another progressive diatribe written with the idea that my inalienable constitutional rights are subject to government approval. I am a citizen, not a subject.

As I said, I have not read it or even scrolled through it carefully, but I do believe it is chock full of interviews with former ATF managers and agents who describe their experiences at ATF in considerable detail. Think "granular."
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of the for-profit gun dealers calling in for transfers notified the ATF that they were approving multiple gun sale transfers to gang and probable straw purchase buyers. The ATF instructed the store to continue to approve the sales & transfers.

Then the FEDERAL gov goes on the public offensive about the number of American arms being used in cross border crimes.
IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:
One of the for-profit gun dealers calling in for transfers notified the ATF that they were approving multiple gun sale transfers to gang and probable straw purchase buyers. The ATF instructed the store to continue to approve the sales & transfers. Then the FEDERAL gov goes on the public offensive about the number of American arms being used in cross border crimes.

This takes me back to something that I already said.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...L/125575-4.html#p153
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your post doesn't contain an accounting from one of the gun stores that the government was using to arm foreign criminal gangs.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
]Originally posted by sourmash:
Your post doesn't contain an accounting from one of the gun stores that the government was using to arm foreign criminal gangs.

And . . ?

Was it the express purpose of the DOJ, as headed up by AG Eric Holder, to provide guns to foreign criminal gangs, or was that just a kind of collateral damage that came about because the undercover operations involving "gun walking" were mismanaged or sloppily managed or became corrupted (bribes; kickbacks; secretive deal making) at the middle and lower levels of supervision within the DOJ?

I think the key phrase in my previous post--that one that I just referenced--is "drop in the ocean."

I think that longish (16 minutes of reading) article in the New York Times that I put on display here previously (should be on this same page of the thread here) would be a good read or browse for someone like yourself, or someone who is interested in what you are saying here.

So why haven't I read it or looked at it more carefully?

It's too far down on my list of needs and wants.
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-03-2021 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Walking a few dozen weapons into the hands of an organized criminal cartel causes more consequences than it does to some coyotes. So there is no drop in a bucket which is equal between the two. Giving a Liberator pistol to a resistance fighter is giving him the op to acquire a real weapon to accomplish his mission.

You can change the entire political structure of a country to ease or abate drug trafficking, human trafficking or drive people into another country as they flee the crime, which is what was done in the ME and is the excuse used by all those economic migrants that flood our Southern border.

If you're saying the illegal activity of our fedgov was a drop in the bucket, you won't find anyone honest who believes your assertion. They emboldened the criminal gangs and today they're emboldening BLM, antifa to commit political violence as well as signaling the invading aliens laws don't matter.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41698
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 180
Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2021 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"the president’s plan to rein in gun violence"



I think you should review some of the earlier posts in this thread. The President and/or his puppeteers are either not concerned with "violence", or they are.. and would like to direct it. They certainly do not have a plan that would reduce it.
IP: Logged
Hudini
Member
Posts: 8322
From: Shanghai, China
Registered: Feb 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 161
Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2021 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I think you should review some of the earlier posts in this thread. The President and/or his puppeteers are either not concerned with "violence", or they are.. and would like to direct it. They certainly do not have a plan that would reduce it.


They don't have a plan to reduce it because the problem is not guns it's people. Do you know the #1 indicator whether someone may become a mass shooter? They grew up in a single parent home. The federal government has made a whole generation of folks dependent on it and then blamed everyone else for the unintended consequences. It's madness blaming me for all the gang shootings in Chicago and other big cities.

To me the biggest indicator that the anti-2A crowd is trying to deceive is the fact that their numbers for "violence" include suicides.
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-05-2021 07:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A large number of mass shooters like the Columbine shooters, Adam Lanza, the theatre shooter were on SSRI psychotropics. They inhibit impulse control.

But we should understand that most all shootings are in "diverse" areas. Diverse communities. Diverse cities. Is that how diversity is our strength is evidenced?

Diversity is where people get shot.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41698
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 180
Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2021 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:


They don't have a plan to reduce it because the problem is not guns it's people. Do you know the #1 indicator whether someone may become a mass shooter? They grew up in a single parent home. The federal government has made a whole generation of folks dependent on it and then blamed everyone else for the unintended consequences. It's madness blaming me for all the gang shootings in Chicago and other big cities.

To me the biggest indicator that the anti-2A crowd is trying to deceive is the fact that their numbers for "violence" include suicides.


Their stupid plan (agenda) is stated that its intent is to reduce it, but it only addresses the tool.

But yes I agree! And all the reasons that led to single parent homes...

 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

A large number of mass shooters like the Columbine shooters, Adam Lanza, the theatre shooter were on SSRI psychotropics. They inhibit impulse control.

.


Absolutely.
IP: Logged
2.5
Member
Posts: 41698
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 180
Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2021 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

"How the A.T.F., Key to Biden’s Gun Plan, Became an N.R.A. ‘Whipping Boy’"
"The federal agency tasked with enforcing gun laws has been hamstrung for years by the firearms lobby....."

If you are reading this, I think you would not deem it a waste of your time to access the article (if you can do it) and give it a quick "eyes on" to see if it looks like something you would like to read or scroll through.



Cry me a river, rinselberg that might as well read "the government needs your help to successfully remove your rights."

More info:

https://www.nraila.org/arti...hrows-atf-pity-party
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2021 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Cry me a river, rinselberg that might as well read "the government needs your help to successfully remove your rights."


Absolutely.

States are now passing Constitutional Carry legislation. In multiple states you can now carry openly or concealed with out govt permission cards (permits). This should have always been the rule.

IP: Logged
rinselberg
Member
Posts: 10315
From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA)
Registered: Mar 2010


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2021 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:
Absolutely. States are now passing Constitutional Carry legislation. In multiple states you can now carry openly or concealed with out govt permission cards (permits). This should have always been the rule.

That's legislation. I think the most important observation in the NYT report that I referenced is that the A.T.F. has been undercut, so that its managers and agents cannot be effective in enforcing the laws that are in their remit to enforce.
IP: Logged
sourmash
Member
Posts: 2417
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2021 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're just taking my.word for it.

But for certa8in, the aft does retarded things. They said if you use an arm brace on a pistol length ar-15, it's ok. Then they said if you touch it to your shoulder like a stock, you're a felon. They may have changed again since then.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
2.5
Member
Posts: 41698
From: Southern MN
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 180
Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2021 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

..the A.T.F. has been undercut, so that its managers and agents cannot be effective in enforcing the laws that are in their remit to enforce.


Not undercut enough. They are in many ways redundant, do not use funds efficiently or appropriately. They are in many ways an agency looking for relevancy while constantly dancing on overreach, wasting time putting forth rules defining the characteristics of tools for law abiding citizens that get overturned in courts.
IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 5 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock