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An American 2nd Amendment thread by 2.5
Started on: 09-28-2020 04:22 PM
Replies: 147 (2421 views)
Last post by: olejoedad on 04-09-2021 02:55 PM
2.5
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Report this Post02-25-2021 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




They have already ignored "shall not be infringed".



Yes indeed this debate will continue to rage on.

They never stop pushing for more infringements.


this is worth sharing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq-uISiCt4s

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-25-2021).]

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Report this Post02-25-2021 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trey Gowdy, Colion Noir and Penn and Teller are some of my favorite voices of reason.

edit: Well I suppose, technically, Teller is not a voice of anything.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-25-2021).]

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Report this Post02-26-2021 12:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you go back to my previous message at the very end of Page 3 in this thread, about the op-ed from Ioan Grillo, you would be looking at my previous message . . .

Bet you didn't see that one coming.

Ioan Grillo's thinking starts with the NICS. He wants a more complete implementation of the NICS, nationwide, extending it to purchases at gun shows and "private sales." It's an op-ed, and he's not expressing the specificity and level of detail that would seem to be called for in the drafting of actual legislation, but that's his direction.

Does anyone think that the NICS is going to be canceled in the foreseeable future?

I think it's here to stay, and I think that suggests a very logical question for 2A supporters, 2A enthusiasts and 2A fundamentalists alike.

Is it nobler to endure the slings and arrows of an expansion of the NICS regime to include gun shows and private sales, or to take arms against this idea when the NICS in its current manifestation already resembles a literally permanent fixture of the American 2A landscape for as far ahead as the eye can see?

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-26-2021).]

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Report this Post02-26-2021 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As the retina absords light that travels to the eye for neural processing to create vision, we can only see the past.

Tha NICS has always lacked the proper funding for full implementation as written.

Gun show sales are covered under the NICS, and always have been if the seller is a FFL holder.
Private sales were specifically and intentionally excluded from the NICS legislation.

Now go do your homework and report back as to why that exclusion was written into the statute.

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Report this Post02-26-2021 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Does anyone think that the NICS is going to be canceled in the foreseeable future?

I think it's here to stay, and I think that suggests a very logical question for 2A supporters, 2A enthusiasts and 2A fundamentalists alike.

Is it nobler to endure the slings and arrows of an expansion of the NICS regime to include gun shows and private sales, or to take arms against this idea when the NICS in its current manifestation already resembles a literally permanent fixture of the American 2A landscape for as far ahead as the eye can see?



The answer to the question you didn't ask on this post is yes, NICS is an infringement to the American citizens right, that the 2nd Amendment explains. Noble could perhaps be defined as disallowing any further infringement.
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Report this Post02-26-2021 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post02-26-2021 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gov't will continue to knowingly arm their chosen narco gangs through allowing Fast and Furious NICS straw purchases.

Gun control isn't about erroneously wanting to lower illegal gun usage. It's only about removing the right from lawful users of the right.
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Report this Post02-28-2021 05:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A "slice of life" in the age of NICS.

This is some text from a report that I essentially came upon just by chance.
 
quote
A Nevada man is facing multiple charges after being accused of purchasing 283 guns in Utah and selling them in Las Vegas.

[name REDACTED; sex Male; age 32] of Las Vegas, is charged with nine counts of making a false statement, one count of dealing in firearms without a license, and one count of travel within the United State with intent to violate federal law by dealing firearms without a license, according to an indictment.

Charges allege [REDACTED] purchased approximately 283 guns in Utah in 2020. Using a conservative estimate, he spent about $176,000 on the guns, including 147 Glock pistols.

[REDACTED] came to the attention of agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives in Salt Lake City in July after purchasing a large number of firearms during May, June, July, and August throughout Utah.

Agents received federal firearms licensees with numerous locations across the state that [REDACTED] firearms purchases were suspicious in nature given the multiple purchases he made and different explanations he offered to store employees during the transactions, according to the Utah U.S. Attorney's Office.

The ATF also received a tip that [REDACTED] was trafficking the guns in Las Vegas.

According to the indictment, ATF firearms tracing shows that firearms originally purchased by [REDACTED] have been recovered in California by law enforcement officers investigating various crimes.

All 19 of the recovered firearms were recovered within a short time-to-crime ratio of between 2 and 91 days. One of the recovered firearms was used to commit a double murder [in California], according to the complaint.

Under federal law, FFLs are required to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a short period of time. ATF uses the information to investigate potential firearms trafficking cases.

Each count of making a false statement during the acquisition of firearms carries a potential sentence of 10 years in federal prison. Dealing in firearms without a license has a potential five-year sentence. The final count of the indictment, travel within the United States with intent to violate federal law prohibiting dealing in firearms without a license, has a maximum sentence of 10 years.

"Man charged in firearms trafficking case after buying 283 guns in Utah"

McKenzie Stauffer for KUTV, Utah; October 14, 2020.
https://kutv.com/news/local...ing-283-guns-in-utah

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-28-2021).]

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Report this Post02-28-2021 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How come the ATF officials weren't charged with murder in Fast & Furious for telling gun shops to approve the sale of arms when the shops told the ATF they knew the individuals were making straw purchases?
One of those rifles was used to kill a Border agent. Gov't was the cause and problem.

One of the mass shooters not long ago wasn't supposed to own arms but NICS approved the sale. Gov't isn't the answer.

The Utah man had probably been warned previously. It's common, but not mandatory, for the ATF to confront and inform private dealers at shows when they're violating this or that. If you do it again they'll let you hang yourself, but usually after the 3rd time while you continue to do it. They'll also falsely accuse your compadres, even confiscating their arms and charging them. Saw it happen to the brother of a man who was dealing guns without a license. His brother wasn't proven to be but still cost him $20k for a lawyer. The agents damaged some of his arms which was just tough crap for him.
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Report this Post03-03-2021 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh, Canada...

Watching how Canada gets screwed will give tips on similar ways they may try and screw us in the future.

At the 3:24 min mark he gets started




The above is an air gun channel, so he takes note that BB, Pellet, and paintball guns are screwed too....

Another effect, nothing for kids to learn on = no future enthusiasts.

-

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-03-2021).]

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Report this Post03-03-2021 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Oh, Canada...


Watching how Canada gets screwed will give tips on similar ways they may try and screw us in the future.

The above is an air gun channel, so he takes note that BB, Pellet, and paintball guns are screwed too....




"Oh Canada" why don't you have anything even approximating the original title of this thread?

That is why you have youtube channels of Canadians farting around with BB guns and pellet guns.

They're unarmed subjects, not citizens, and they'll do as they're told.

The United States has over 10X as many firearms in the hands of it's citizens than Canada has total population so I don't think our northern neighbor has much of anything instructive for us regarding gun rights other than how not to form a national constitution.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-03-2021).]

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Report this Post03-05-2021 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

They're unarmed subjects, not citizens, and they'll do as they're told.

The United States has over 10X as many firearms in the hands of it's citizens than Canada has total population so I don't think our northern neighbor has much of anything instructive for us regarding gun rights other than how not to form a national constitution.



I think overall we do agree, the steps they have taken and not taken, could be warnings to us.
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Report this Post03-10-2021 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDlSVE0X3Ao


Are uninformed/misinformed people who don't seem to use logic, or see a big picture, the real problem our freedoms are always at risk?

I also notice when people talk about important topics like this, there seem to be steps agreed upon, and then the next points made by the interviewee contradict the points they already agreed upon. It is as if everything just said went back out the window. Failure of critical thinking?

Add to that, bad twisted facts.

It is good however, to see some students such as these willing to listen.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-10-2021).]

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Report this Post03-10-2021 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageClick Here to Email randyeSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I also notice when people talk about important topics like this, there seem to be steps agreed upon, and then the next points made by the interviewee contradict the points they already agreed upon. It is as if everything just said went back out the window. Failure of critical thinking?




I believe it's more of an inability to coherently organize their thoughts to even get to the point of being able to engage in critical thinking.

Critical thinking is defined as "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment".

That objective analysis and evaluation first requires putting data into some kind of arrangement or disposition in relation to each other.

It has been my observation that those who rely on their emotions, rather than objective data, to form their ideas and opinions have the most trouble organizing their own thinking, much less being able to properly evaluate data.

I truly believe that is why we see so many Lefties simultaneously holding two or more completely contradictory and irreconcilable positions in their heads and they never give it a whiff of notice or concern.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-10-2021).]

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Report this Post03-13-2021 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pushing more bans of inanimate objects. Guess why...

https://www.guns.com/news/2...ORY&sc_src=email_102 4914&sc_lid=56281775&sc_uid=SmUxpwMGI4&sc_llid=175686&sc_eh=7cdad3159c283fac1

"Toughest in history"
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Report this Post03-18-2021 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post03-18-2021 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

"because reasons"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AfhdKLNDA

The lady makes perfect sense. It is nothing less than criminal that our keepers don't give a damn what their subjects know.
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Report this Post03-19-2021 07:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OldsFieroClick Here to Email OldsFieroSend a Private Message to OldsFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, she makes perfect sense, but I fear that it fell on mostly deaf ears.
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Report this Post03-19-2021 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OldsFiero:

Yes, she makes perfect sense, but I fear that it fell on mostly deaf ears.


I'm thinking for some it falls on ears that hear, that know, and even understand, but willfully act counter to its truth.

I would say many of the deaf ears seem to belong to scared voters who vote for politicians which are against these rights.
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Report this Post03-19-2021 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


I'm thinking for some it falls on ears that hear, that know, and even understand, but willfully act counter to its truth.

I would say many of the deaf ears seem to belong to scared voters who vote for politicians which are against these rights.


The problem is they will only hear what they want to hear. Guns are scary and we are probably going to get killed by a hand guns will be the next thing.
It will not end, this will continue until one side or the other loses or blood is spilled and executive orders are signed.

For the record the best home defense weapon is still the shot gun, you want someone to drop a load in their pants rack a 12 ga in a dark room.
Personal "defense" weapons are used to protect us from those that are hiding in plain sight, not those that enter in the dark. Both foreign and domestic.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 03-19-2021).]

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Report this Post03-19-2021 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

For the record the best home defense weapon is still the shot gun, you want someone to drop a load in their pants rack a 12 ga in a dark room.
Personal "defense" weapons are used to protect us from those that are hiding in plain sight, not those that enter in the dark. Both foreign and domestic.



Some thoughts:

Its good to have a light on your weapon to identify the threat, since we don't get to choose when and where they appear

I see Personal vs Home defense as essentially just referring to where you are at a given time, and who is with you.

Foreign and domestic, that brings to mind organized military threats or guerrilla warfare. I do wonder how many nations would think twice before a ground attack on us due to US citizens being armed. If they did, assuming they would not have shotguns as primary weapons, I would prefer something at least similar in effect to their weapons.
...Though the biggest threat may simply be fire.

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Report this Post03-19-2021 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Some thoughts:

Its good to have a light on your weapon to identify the threat, since we don't get to choose when and where they appear

I see Personal vs Home defense as essentially just referring to where you are at a given time, and who is with you.

Foreign and domestic, that brings to mind organized military threats or guerrilla warfare. I do wonder how many nations would think twice before a ground attack on us due to US citizens being armed. If they did, assuming they would not have shotguns as primary weapons, I would prefer something at least similar in effect to their weapons.
...Though the biggest threat may simply be fire.


Training and practice. A light wont do you any good if you turn it on and you still cant hit your target. I would also hate to fire something in our house that would penetrate the walls and hurt someone out side of the house.
Our home is never really dark, so unless there is a power outage I can see well enough to defend us. Being only two of us I only have to know where one other person is.
My girlfriend hates guns, but she understands the need for one.

As for defense against an outside aggressor I would want something that is as equal or better than what they have if possible.
It only takes some research to find out how close the Japanese were to California. If something like that happened today, I believe it would end differently.
Cut the power and start some fires, **** the entire state could be shut down. My butt just puckered up writing that.
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Report this Post03-24-2021 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the 2 min mark - Boulder Colorado incident

Possibly best point at 7:10


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bbUvCD7Zpg

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 03-24-2021).]

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Report this Post03-31-2021 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Politicians don't stop trying to remove your rights.

Disagree?

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Report this Post04-07-2021 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Arizona governor signs bill to preempt federal gun laws
 
quote
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey has signed legislation that aims to prohibit police and sheriffs from enforcing federal gun laws that violate the 2nd Amendment.


https://www.azleg.gov/legte...1R/bills/HB2111P.pdf
 
quote
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

Section 1. Title 1, chapter 2, article 4, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 1-272, to read:

1-272. Sovereign authority; right of the people to keep and bear arms

PURSUANT TO THE SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY OF THIS STATE AND ARTICLE II, SECTION 3, CONSTITUTION OF ARIZONA:

1. AN ACT, LAW, TREATY, ORDER, RULE OR REGULATION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT VIOLATES AMENDMENT II OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IS NULL, VOID AND UNENFORCEABLE IN THIS STATE.

2. THIS STATE AND ALL POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS OF THIS STATE ARE PROHIBITED FROM USING ANY PERSONNEL OR FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO ENFORCE, ADMINISTER OR COOPERATE WITH ANY ACT, LAW, TREATY, ORDER, RULE OR REGULATION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT VIOLATES AMENDMENT II OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.


Way to go, Doug!

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-07-2021).]

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Report this Post04-08-2021 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

article quote:

"1. AN ACT, LAW, TREATY, ORDER, RULE OR REGULATION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT VIOLATES AMENDMENT II OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES IS NULL, VOID AND UNENFORCEABLE IN THIS STATE.

2. THIS STATE AND ALL POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS OF THIS STATE ARE PROHIBITED FROM USING ANY PERSONNEL OR FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO ENFORCE, ADMINISTER OR COOPERATE WITH ANY ACT, LAW, TREATY, ORDER, RULE OR REGULATION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT THAT VIOLATES AMENDMENT II OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES."



THAT IS AWESOME!
Wonder if the Federal gov will someday figure out that it isn't allowed to break the fundamental rules either.
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Report this Post04-09-2021 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
HR 1207, The other over reaching bill that would reduce ammo availability, (even more) and discriminate.



This guy's tongue in cheek delivery is sometimes funny.

Also, I soooooooooooooo agree with what he says about working remote.

On the positive side, many new states allowing "constitutional carry".
Facts
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Report this Post04-09-2021 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From the comments section after an article on former vp bidens executive bloviation.....

"You libs will be happy to hear that my guns are liberal too!
- They stay in their safe space almost all of the time doing nothing.
- They only work after someone else feeds them.
- They are unable to clean or care for themselves.
- They make lots of noise and cause destruction.
- None have an IQ higher than 60.
- and they are easily triggered."

I thought it appropriate, an accurate comparison and funny.
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