It *reinforces* what we have been saying throughout this entire thread.
It is right there in the title of the bill: TO CREATE STATEWIDE CONSISTENCY(in laws).
Because a small group of "liberal activists" in Charlotte N.C. decided to "kick open the toilet door" using a new local *ordinance* and because the *majority* of the folks in the state of North Carolina DIDN'T AGREE with that, the state legislature drafted and passed that bill in order TO CREATE STATEWIDE CONSISTENCY in the law. Once AGAIN confirming the right of the majority to agree on and codify (by law if necessary), acceptable BEHAVIOR in their society.
The Majority:
The proposed bill had no less than 36 SPONSORS
The vote in the North Carolina House was 82-26 after three hours of debate, with all Republicans voting for it and 11 Democrats breaking ranks with their party to support the bill.
The North Carolina Senate voted 32-0 in favor after all 11 Democrats present walked out in protest.
As for Adams, Springsteen and the usual howling from the loopy leftists on this , it is worth reminding you that, for the most part, boycotts are nothing more than feel-good endeavors that help buoy the self-righteousness of the boycotter. They may, at best, make those being boycotted look up for half a second until the next squirrel races by for the leftists to follow and howl about.
...just like the Chik-Fil-A boycott,(which spectacularly failed), the fraudlent Duke LaCross Team rape, Rachel Dolezal, Cecil the Lion and many, many more leftist manufactured "crisis".
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-17-2016).]
Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Beyond simply pontificating about it, how many of you guys have actually READ the bill?
Beyond pontificating, besides reading the bill and pontificating some more, what have you done ?
You have not recognized some points of this discussion by us that have any merit. Many have much merit. How are you gonna change the minds, or do you expect us to agree with your views ?
Well, in the sense that "a liberal" would want all legal gun owners to pay for a few criminal's actions?
Should have said "replace liberal with conservative."
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
Being liberal conservative means refusing common sense precautions and requiring other people to pay for the consequences.
Now it sounds like a liberal talking about gun control. They say "common sense precautions" for their gun control bills, to prevent "requiring other people to pay for the consequences" in the form of getting shot.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 04-18-2016).]
Oh. Now you done did it. We are quaking in our toilet stalls. Even though we are on the side of 98% of the world's history and have been since ... well, since forever.
Let me see if I got this right, . Mis-gendered people want to be able to go to a restroom in which they are comfortable. I do too. I would not let my daughter use a restroom I was not comfortable with.
San Antonio can not be the only city where vice squad action at public restrooms happens frequently. Sex crimes. Lewd and indecent conduct. Involving, oh, what's the right word/term, ... I am afraid I might offend someone, ... gay men ? US Congressman, a Republican Senator, Larry Craig, was arrested for just such an incident. At a public airport restroom. He might be a gay man. Horney too, . Fantasy Land.
Heh ... You used to have a signature. "I am young, dumb, and naive. I am working on the last one". Something like that. Keep working on it.
People like me ? Look, I don't care if you want to wear a skirt, really, I don't. I don't care if you come into my restroom wearing it. What I do care about is people who think their problems are mine. People like me ? You mean people not like you ? Isn't that not kinda racist ?
I have no shame about the past. I have pride in today. I know the difference.
Sorry for the delay... haven't been on a computer in awhile and the way you split the post makes it hard to quote without a computer.. takes longer than I have patience for. Anyway..
Firstly, I haven't said a thing about the bill in this post. I have spoken out against the bigotry in here, against posts that I consider offensive, but I haven't said anything about the bill itself. There is a reason for that. I hadn't read the bill until just now, and prefer to make decisions like this off of the facts and not journalistic interpretations. Everything I've said in this post can be taken without considering the bill at all. Randye comes in telling rinselberg to go get ****ed in the ass by Muslims because rinselberg must just love Muslims so much. He did this because rinselberg posted information about how homosexuals are not killed in Egypt just for being homosexuals. That's just a fact. Randye, by posting his childish behavior, set the tone for the rest of the thread. When I say "You guys are on the wrong side of history" I'm talking about the words that some of the people are using in this thread against homosexuals, against transsexuals, and otherwise. The words used in this thread disgust me. It's like some of the people here refuse to see people with different sexualities as human.
Now, keeping that in mind, because you brought up the bill itself and what it contains, I decided to read it so I could respond to your other questions with knowledge. Almost immediately, I did find problems in the bill.
quote
11 b) Single-Sex Multiple Occupancy Bathroom and Changing Facilities. – Local boards of 12 education shall require every multiple occupancy bathroom or changing facility that is designated 13 for student use to be designated for and used only by students based on their biological sex.
Where biological sex is defined as
quote
33 (1) Biological sex. – The physical condition of being male or female, which is 34 stated on a person's birth certificate.
Unfortunately, biological sex is not all cut and dry. There are instances where the penis was accidentally removed during circumcision, and the doctor and parents decided to raise this man as a woman to attempt to decrease identity issues. Source In this case, sourced because of its popularity, the person did have the correct sex on the birth certificate, but was then altered at a later date. But this is not the only instance, and others have occurred at birth, where the birth certificate is not "correct." Birth defects have caused similar confusions for many people. See: Intersex people. This is biological fact, this is not some PC liberal bullshit.
I happen to agree that transgendered people are commonly mentally ill. However, that doesn't change the fact that we should show compassion to everyone. The best "treatment" for the mental illness of gender dysphoria is to simply accept the new gender and relieve the stress the individual is experiencing. This is the most effective treatment, doesn't impact anyone but the individual experiencing it, so it should not be viewed so harshly as in this thread. The law itself is exclusionary towards those that don't fit within the typical gender roles, and there is no reason for it. You say you care about people thinking their problems are yours, you don't care who goes into the same restroom as you. That's what they're saying as well. This is creating a problem that didn't previously exist. You aren't affected by it because you aren't transgendered, but saying it isn't your problem because of that is like saying "I don't care if Blacks have civil rights. I'm White, doesn't affect me" or "I don't care if taxes are raised on the super rich, I'm not super rich so it doesn't affect me." This affects people and discriminates for no real reason.
When people want to control the lives of others when it doesn't really affect them at all, I start to get pretty upset. There are many in this thread that want to do just that. Randye doesn't even believe transgendered people exist, because in his mind it isn't possible. That's just dumb. There is plenty evidence throughout history of transgendered individuals. There are biological components, hard facts, that can help explain some transgendered situations, even, so that entire thought process is flawed.
Personally, Cliff, I don't understand why you care about this at all. Why you care enough to continue replying to people like Threedog and Doni that are very clearly saying "Just get out of people's lives when it doesn't affect you." You say you don't care about others' problems as long as they don't try and make it your problem. Prove it. Stand up against a bill that creates an unnecessary problem.
Accommodations Permitted. – Nothing in this section shall prohibit local boards of education from providing accommodations such as single occupancy bathroom or changing facilities or controlled use of faculty facilities upon a request due to special circumstances
So for the .014% of the population (the high estimate from your Wiki link) who have a medical condition, accommodations can be made.
Now it sounds like a liberal talking about gun control. They say "common sense precautions" for their gun control bills, to prevent "requiring other people to pay for the consequences" in the form of getting shot.
Sure they would say that but what would it mean? Which common sense measures do conservatives refuse as related to gun ownership? And let me say up front that blaming a gun manufacturer for a shooting does not reside in the common sense universe.
I happen to agree that transgendered people are commonly mentally ill. However, that doesn't change the fact that we should show compassion to everyone.
GOOD. Feel free to express all the personal compassion you want. That does not mean that you have any right to *force* the majority of any society to accept and cooperate with your personal feelings.
THAT is the CORE of the issue as I first stated it to you back on PAGE TWO (and have restated it various ways several times).
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Now its time for me to tell you to *grow up*. The issue isn't principally about the toilet bowl, but I think you know that so please stop being ridiculous.
The issue is properly the right of the majority to establish social morals and conscience and enact laws as they see fit to support those values. The issue is properly the right of the majority not to be forced to bend to the whims of a deviant tiny minority.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-18-2016).]
Now its time for me to tell you to *grow up*. The issue isn't principally about the toilet bowl, but I think you know that so please stop being ridiculous.
The issue is properly the right of the majority to establish social morals and conscience and enact laws as they see fit to support those values. The issue is properly the right of the majority not to be forced to bend to the whims of a deviant tiny minority.
You will NEVER convince the majority of citizens that obviously sick men like that have any so-called "right" to share a bathroom or locker / shower room with our sisters, wives and daughters.
WHY the laws are needed:
College Allows Transgender Man to Expose Himself to Young Girls
"... a 45-year-old male student, who dresses as a woman and goes by the name Colleen Francis, undressed and exposed his genitals on several occasions inside the woman’s locker room at Evergreen State College.
Students from nearby Olympia High School as well as children at a local swimming club share locker rooms with the college.
According to a police report, the mother of a 17-year-old girl complained after her daughter saw the transgender individual walking naked in the locker room. A female swim coach confronted the man sprawled out in a sauna exposing himself. She ordered him to leave and called police."
Randye comes in telling rinselberg to go get ****ed in the ass by Muslims because rinselberg must just love Muslims so much.
WRONG
Your hysteria is evident, however you need to go back and carefully re-read what I posted and try to *accurately* comprehend it. Try actually *reading* instead of just looking at pictures. Here, I'll even help you out a bit:
quote
Originally posted by randye:
Based on your obvious "vast knowledge" on the issue isn't it time for you to get yourself over there in person and start helping your spiritual brothers and sisters and _________ out with your "special talents".
How you managed to get from those words to alleging that I told Ronald to " go get ****ed in the ass by Muslims" says a lot about your own thinking.
For someone who is crying all about having *compassion* and understanding for other people you sure do reveal your own prejudices and hypocrisy when you obviously assumed that the man in the photo was performing a public anal sex act instead of possibly assisting a handicapped fellow in bowing for prayer. Shame on you!
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-18-2016).]
Genitals are just flesh. Sex is just one of the things they are used for.
A nipple is just a nipple...what you make it in your head is all up to you.
That sounds like something a med student would say to themselves over and over in their head. Also sounds like something a councilor would say to a "flashing" victim.
You wouldn't be afraid of a raccoon walking thru your yard but if it was walking slowly toward you while growling and foaming at the mouth, you'd know something was wrong with it. Just like someone who exposes himself, you know something is wrong with him and you don't know what else he might do.
Females tend to scream and run and cry when something like that happens to them so, no, it's not just another body part.
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 04-19-2016).]
I may have something to say about the bathroom law and/or the other (religious freedom) law as the day (or the week) wears on.
But first, let me take care of the easy part.
quote
Originally posted by randye:
How you managed to get from those words to alleging that I told Ronald to " go get ****ed in the ass by Muslims" says a lot about your own thinking. For someone who is crying all about having *compassion* and understanding for other people you sure do reveal your own prejudices and hypocrisy when you obviously assumed that the man in the photo was performing a public anal sex act instead of possibly assisting a handicapped fellow in bowing for prayer.
Click the "Play" icon for a few seconds of prerecorded audio
Click to show
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-19-2016).]
Females tend to scream and run and cry when something like that happens to them so, no, it's not just another body part.
Because society says they must act this way. My grandmother would grab the shovel and take that racoon out quicker than you can run to your house and call animal control.
Is all a matter of what is expected. If you are at a nude beach, seeing parts is expected. Seeing the same people when you walk around the corner in the grocery store is shocking. Shocking situations are often upsetting.
Originally posted by Boondawg: ... I identify as a 6'5" 7-year old Chinese woman...I demand KFC have taller doorways, a squatty-potty, Dim Sum, & a tampon machine.
University of Washington students on the question of "self-identity":
I identify as a 6'5" 7-year old Chinese woman...I demand KFC have taller doorways, a squatty-potty, Dim Sum, & a tampon machine.
You beat me to it.
I spotted this one too and was going to post it. It's a great example of young people that have been so indoctrinated into believing that they MUST NOT "discriminate" in ANY WAY that they are more than willing to abandon rational thought and common sense.
I spotted this one too and was going to post it. It's a great example of young people that have been so indoctrinated into believing that they MUST NOT "discriminate" in ANY WAY that they are more than willing to abandon rational thought and common sense.
Sex Offender Led North Carolina LGBT Bathroom Ordinance Efforts
"When the Charlotte, N.C. City Council passed their version of the open-facilities ordinance earlier this year, the Charlotte LGBT Chamber of Commerce led the charge to make it happen.
And leading the Charlotte LGBT Chamber of Commerce was convicted sex-offender Chad Sevearance-Turner."
"In January, FPIW reported the story of Johanna Wolf, a Washington-based transgender activist and very vocal supporter of our Washington’s open-locker rooms policy. Wolf, prior to claiming womanhood and changing names, was known as Jonathan Adrian Wolf.
Jonathan Adrian Wolf was charged and convicted for the rape of a minor female in Nebraska in 2006."
Once again we see that the TRUTH eventually comes out on all of these leftist bullcrap "issues". It just takes awhile. Next week another squirrel will race by and the lunatic left collective of the perpetually offended and willfully stupid will run screaming after it.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-19-2016).]
"In January, FPIW reported the story of Johanna Wolf, a Washington-based transgender activist and very vocal supporter of our Washington’s open-locker rooms policy. Wolf, prior to claiming womanhood and changing names, was known as Jonathan Adrian Wolf.
Jonathan Adrian Wolf was charged and convicted for the rape of a minor female in Nebraska in 2006."
But, I was told in this very thread that a man male who dresses like a female is not interested in females.
Then his mental illness took over and he now claims ("identifies") to be a "transgendered female dragon" and no doubt demands a legal right to open access to the women's shower / locker room and toilet.
Despite all the leftie hysteria, hand wringing and crying for "compassion" for these obviously sick people, the best *compassion* that they can be shown is to not play along with and help *reinforce* and enable their delusions and behavior.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-19-2016).]
Sure they would say that but what would it mean? Which common sense measures do conservatives refuse as related to gun ownership? And let me say up front that blaming a gun manufacturer for a shooting does not reside in the common sense universe.
A Liberal would say almost every measure they want is "common sense." That's my point. It isn't necessarily common sense, but that's what the soundbite claims. Your claim that being a liberal means ignoring common sense and having others suffer for it holds just as much validity.
quote
Originally posted by randye:
How you managed to get from those words to alleging that I told Ronald to " go get ****ed in the ass by Muslims" says a lot about your own thinking.
For someone who is crying all about having *compassion* and understanding for other people you sure do reveal your own prejudices and hypocrisy when you obviously assumed that the man in the photo was performing a public anal sex act instead of possibly assisting a handicapped fellow in bowing for prayer. Shame on you!
It's incredibly obvious what you wanted to portray. If you want to start throwing a fit and saying "That's not actually what I said!" when you clearly meant that, then we are done here.
A Liberal would say almost every measure they want is "common sense." That's my point. It isn't necessarily common sense, but that's what the soundbite claims. Your claim that being a liberal means ignoring common sense and having others suffer for it holds just as much validity.
First it sounds like yer fer us then it sounds like yer agin us. Oh well...
First it sounds like yer fer us then it sounds like yer agin us. Oh well...
I want the most possible freedom - for everyone. I'm not for or against anyone on this forum, but more and more I come here to read people wanting bigger and bigger government when it suits them, and calling everyone who disagrees an idiot liberal. I'm the furthest thing from a liberal, but almost every liberal on this forum is much more introspective, much more reasonable, and much more approachable than the average contributor. People like Don, Formula88, and some others, they are the exception, but so many conservatives here are just so blind to any sort of reason and it's truly sad because if they'd just practice what they preached with regards to lowering government, they'd be some of the most reasonable people here.
Hmmm. My perspective is much different than yours other than also wanting the most freedom possible for everyone.
My experience has been that the forum conservatives want smaller government and the forum liberals will not concede any points no matter how small or insignificant. That is why I don't respond to Jaski's posts. He doesn't answer questions, dismisses common sense, and has never heard a different viewpoint that made him re-think his position on anything. Also every one of his responses include his signature "LOL" which to me is equivalent to calling someone a conservative idiot.
an I want the most possible freedom - for everyone. I'm not for or against anyone on this forum, but more and more I come here to read people wanting bigger and bigger government when it suits them, and calling everyone who disagrees an idiot liberal. I'm the furthest thing from a liberal, but almost every liberal on this forum is much more introspective, much more reasonable, and much more approachable than the average contributor. People like Don, Formula88, and some others, they are the exception, but so many conservatives here are just so blind to any sort of reason and it's truly sad because if they'd just practice what they preached with regards to lowering government, they'd be some of the most reasonable people here.
To summarize then. Your idea of not being " so blind to any sort of reason" is for everyone to happily agree with you to allow cross dressing sex offenders in the women's shower / locker rooms and toilets...... Got it.
No doubt Chad Sevearance-Turner and Jonathan Adrian Wolf, along with every other sexual predator, will agree that you are being quite *reasonable* and will applaud your support of them.
You rant about others supposedly being "blind to reason", but in your hysteria you obviously haven't paused to consider or discuss WHY the North Carolina legislature may have found it necessary to go to the extraordinary measure to call a 2nd emergency session just to enact this law.
quote
Originally posted by theBDub: The law itself is exclusionary towards those that don't fit within the typical gender roles, and there is no reason for it
Are you actually naïve enough to believe that a huge majority of 104 members of the North Carolina legislature all suddenly and unanimously said "Hey y'all, lets oppress some queers" and then had the entire legislature travel back to the state capital just to enact a "toilet law" for "no reason" ?
quote
Originally posted by theBDub: I want the most possible freedom - for everyone.
Except when it comes to the freedom of the overwhelming majority of North Carolinians to determine what behaviors they won't tolerate. You are all for the freedom that YOU want, but not anyone else's.....Got it.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-20-2016).]
Hmmm. My perspective is much different than yours other than also wanting the most freedom possible for everyone.
My experience has been that the forum conservatives want smaller government and the forum liberals will not concede any points no matter how small or insignificant. That is why I don't respond to Jaski's posts. He doesn't answer questions, dismisses common sense, and has never heard a different viewpoint that made him re-think his position on anything. Also every one of his responses include his signature "LOL" which to me is equivalent to calling someone a conservative idiot.
Really, you want smaller government? Then get the government out of the bedroom and bathroom. Get religion out of government and live by laws, not religious text and mythical gods. Do you support that? Or do you approve of our government creating laws to control what people do. Gay marriage, for example.... simple "equal rights" for everyone. Do you support that? It is common sense that the government doesn't care who you marry, so why would so-called conservatives be against it?
I answer questions, you don't like the answer, and you ignore them. You say you have an open mind, but it is just the opposite. I do think it is fair to say that a "typical conservative" on this forum wants equal rights for everyone*.
*exclusions include, but not limited to gays, minorities, immigrants, mentally ill, those we deem mentally ill, the elderly, the young, Californians, McDonalds workers, college students, democrats.
Oh... and LOL...
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 04-20-2016).]
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