Thank you everyone for all the interest you've shown in my build over the past couple years... it's been a great fun listening to the advice, comments, and praise. But I've come to a crossroads with Cliff Pennock.
I asked him to rule on the permissibility of threads that focus on a third party's car either for the sole purpose of ridiculing it, or its owner, or threads that degenerate into the same. He has apparently reserved the right not to make such a decision since he stopped responding to my PM's. That doesn't sit well with me. Of course my frustration with this website isn't limited to this issue. This is only the straw that broke the camel's back. The false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, and threatening nature of threads and posts permitted in Totally Off-Topic reflect one of two things or both: the administrator's unwillingness or indifference to enforce his own terms of use. The reasons don't matter much to me.
What does everyone make of this? His build site has had over 161,000 views since it started. I hate to see something like this happen.
Saw that post of his. Didn't see what lead up to it. Rolled my eyes at someone who went whining to the moderator and then got (too) upset that he didn't get his way. Yeah, I get that he was upset, but storming off isn't going to solve anything.
Not sure which threads he's referring to - were people making fun of his build, and Cliff ignored his requests for help?
Sad to see someone leave a community, but folks gotta understand that Cliff only has so much time to devote to this place - I really hope he never just get 'fed up' and pulls the plug.
I really appreciate the work he put into his build thread, hope he doesn't brake away. I don't think I have ever seen him respond in OT. I understand his point. In part, that is why I think the ratings system should be altered to allow members to rate others in individual sections. If a member is a total jerk in OT but civil in all other sections, I don't think negs from the OT section should ban that member from the entire Fiero community.
I know how he feels. There are only 2 or 3 here that regularly try to push my buttons, I just ignore them and push back whenever I feel like it. Most people at least now seem to use ratings to show dislike for others opinions. It used to be fun on here just exchanging info on anything. Now a lot of it is just trying to pick apart anything that anyone posts. You can start a thread on how good apples are and it will turn into a fight. I like apple pie and apple juice, not apples themselves or anything else apple. So the fighters can start anytime.
Originally posted by Imnuts: His build site has had over 161,000 views since it started.
Wow ! I am impressed. We have 161,000 members ? I am sorry he is unhappy. What will he do next ? Check out of life because he doesn't have a thick nut sack ?
Not sure which threads he's referring to - were people making fun of his build, and Cliff ignored his requests for help?
Sad to see someone leave a community, but folks gotta understand that Cliff only has so much time to devote to this place - I really hope he never just get 'fed up' and pulls the plug.
No its the ones for example cars on ebay, where they are described wrong or maybe have unconventional panels on them.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-24-2015).]
I am actually glad cliff doesnt censor peoples input much. For someone to leave this forum for a reason such as this is kind of mind boggling to me. Having used some other forums from time to time, forums can get downright nasty and in my opinion this forum overall is great.
I know how he feels. There are only 2 or 3 here that regularly try to push my buttons, I just ignore them and push back whenever I feel like it. Most people at least now seem to use ratings to show dislike for others opinions. It used to be fun on here just exchanging info on anything. Now a lot of it is just trying to pick apart anything that anyone posts. You can start a thread on how good apples are and it will turn into a fight. I like apple pie and apple juice, not apples themselves or anything else apple. So the fighters can start anytime.
Roger, YOU CANNOT LIKE APPLE PIE AND NOT LIKE APPLES. WHAT THE HELL IS THE MATTER WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU?
Over-moderation is worse than little moderation. The rating system is in place for a purpose and Cliff trusts it to do what it's intended to do. It might be imperfect, but it's what we have. All those negative things he described are easily avoided. It's called a "back" button.
Originally posted by Boondawg: No, just stop hanging around nut-sackers. Why hang around people that make you miserable The world is big enough that you can do that.
No it's not. The United States of America is not that big.
Over-moderation is worse than little moderation. The rating system is in place for a purpose and Cliff trusts it to do what it's intended to do. It might be imperfect, but it's what we have. All those negative things he described are easily avoided. It's called a "back" button.
Agreed. This is, overall, the best forum on the internet and I would hate to see it change or go away. A few need to lighten up and some others need to harden up, but in the end it is just words on a screen; a screen that has an off button.
Isn't Blooz one of the members always providing answers? I mean correct answers. I can provide the incorrect ones. If so, double-whammy for PFF, but not how I'd recommend making an exit.
I think I've seen a numbers of threads waiting on input from Bloozberry or Phonedawgs.
[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 02-24-2015).]
Isn't Blooz one of the members always providing answers? I mean correct answers. I can provide the incorrect ones. If so, double-whammy for PFF, but not how I'd recommend making an exit.
I think I've seen a numbers og threads waiting on input from Bloozberry or Phonedawgs.
He is a good contributing member, no doubt. But I often wonder just how much Cliff deals with on a daily basis. I bet hardly a day goes by that he doesn't get an email from some member here who wants him to ban someone, or make someone behave, or implement some change. Just a guess, but I can't imagine it isn't true. How much should he be expected to babysit everyone and/or modify the forum just to accommodate someone who's had their feelings hurt. Lot's of people have left. Some come back, some don't. I don't deny that the tenor of the forum has changed a lot since it started. I've been here since '99 and have left a few times. Not for any particular reason other than life things changed. I come back because despite the negativity and hostility that exists between some members (and I have a few people I avoid myself) I think there's far more positive and good here than there is negative or "bad". YOu get what you focus on. If all you see is the worst part then change your focus. Some people can do that, others can't. It just is what it is.
IMHO, people have been eating apples wrong if they want to consistently enjoy them. Clean them any way you want, cut in 1/4s or smaller, used same knife to remove the core and anything that does not look tasty, then eat.
Oh, and shame about Bloozberry, he needs to self filter the poopy posts(read past them) and turn off the computer a little more often.
Originally posted by FriendGregory: IMHO, people have been eating apples wrong if they want to consistently enjoy them. Clean them any way you want, cut in 1/4s or smaller, used same knife to remove the core and anything that does not look tasty, then eat.
I don't like apples. Do you have any tips for oranges, ?
Yes, he has without doubt been one of the top contributors in the help and tech sections. I disagree with some of his reasons for leaving including his dismay that Cliff doesn't take a more active moderating role, but Cliff has just ___%) of time for moderation duties so he implemented the rating system to allow himself more time for his real job and of course to devote as much time as possible to his family as well. Forum moderation is a thankless job anyway and rarely are all involved parties happy about the results of any one issue. Hate to see Bloozeberry go, but that is his personal choice. I've had conversations with Cliff in the past, and he has always been very good to explain why he did or did not intervene in a thread.
He didn't like the opinion of someones of a car, yet he picked the car apart himself, He didn't like being called to the mat on it either, then didn't like that Cliff didn't reply to his p.m.'s to fix what "HE" see's as wrong.. He can't have it his way so he is leaving.. maybe his computer works different than mine, I don't like a thread or subject matter , I click close.. and don't read it.. I don't try to get it removed because I don't like it.. same with members.. I'll never understand why on forums people take issue with threads, or a post.. don't like the subject, move on.. no gun to your head to read it.. or a post.. is it going to affect your "real life" ?? most likely not.. some think they need to police, and run to the mods' or owner of a forum.. wonder how long they last if they pulled that crap with their boss at work.. this is as old as dirt, sticks and stones will break my bones but words and names can never hurt me Anyone that post on a forum that they are going to leave because of an opinion of a car, a comment made, a thread(s), post(s), the forum owner not stepping in with a ban hammer, has bigger issue they need to go deal with. like why you letting post on an internet forum bother you that much!!!!!!!!!!! cause if they do bother you that much, you need to go outside for some fresh air..
He didn't like it and let me know it. He wasn't rude or anything. He just let me know in no uncertain terms that he didn't approve of this sort of thread. I respect his opinion and decisions. Funny thing was, the owner of the car contacted me and we e-mailed back and forth and parted ways with no ill will toward each other.
From that thread:
quote
Originally posted by Boostdreamer:
It wasn't my car to ruin so it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I'm glad it was done! It supplied a topic to discuss. That's what we do here. We discuss cars. Any attempt to suppress a car discussion on a car forum should be frowned upon. That is exactly what you are suggesting. "Stop the thread! You have no right to voice your opinion!"
Your thought that the thread has no business even existing is my only complaint with you. Please, by all means, praise and worship this car and its creator in any way you see fit. Just don't trample my rights to voice my opinion of this car or any other topic.
Although this comment wasn't directed at Blooz, it is the way I still feel.
[car forum = car discussion] NOT [car forum = car praise]
[forum = differing opinions offered] NOT [forum = everyone agrees]
Blooz helped me a lot with my projects. I will always appreciate him for that. I just disagree with him on this subject and the weight he gives to the importance of the subject. To me it is a small thing but it strikes a much deeper chord with him. NOT saying he's wrong, just saying that I don't feel the same about it as he does. We all have our pet peeves and if this is one of his, I support him and his intention to attempt to build a better world.
Stick whole cloves in them. Makes a great long-lasting room freshener!
Not to deflect this thread any farther than already, but the first (and last) Christamas Day ham my loving wife cooked for us, she stuck an entire jar of cloves in that ham. Looked like a porcupine and we had to throw the whole thing out.
His build site has had over 161,000 views since it started. I hate to see something like this happen.
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