Fun fact: I never had a Fiero the whole time I've been on the forum! I sold it just a few weeks prior to joining.
Fun fact: I've never had a Fiero. (long story short: Joined because I had "bought" one - made a handshake deal and then had to come back later with a trailer - seller backed out as I was on my way to pick it up)
Time for me to dust off the ol' "why I'm not actively moderating PFF" speech again.
First of all (and I've said this from the very beginning 16 years ago), I started this forum because I hate over-moderated forums and wanted this to be a mostly self-moderating place. And like it or not, this will never change.
For this purpose, the rating system was installed. Some people call it a popularity contest and well, it is. Every voting system is designed to figure out what the most popular option is. That's actually pretty much the definition of voting... People also constantly say the voting system is abused. That people gang up on other people. And again, I'll repeat what I've said many, many times before. It isn't. Every single time someone is banned by the rating system, they send me an email telling me this must be because of some conspiracy by other members and every single time they ask me to look into it. And guess what? Every single time I do and see absolutely no indication of members "ganging up" on them. Unless it's a carefully planned plot spread out over the entire period the banned member has been a member of PFF (since in almost all cases, it's an accumulation of negative ratings over time).
But the rating system is not the only way I implement self moderation. I also listen to members. I wait until people start complaining to me about things. As long as people can't be bothered to notify me about something they see wrong, then I can't be bothered to do anything about it. In fact, there are many things, threads, members that I don't like here on PFF. But I refuse to be some kind of dictator and delete/forbid/censor/ban subjects/threads/members just because *I* don't like it/them. Sure there are a few forum rules set by me. But most of those rules were made because in the past, many members have asked to install them. And a few rules are made because it helps keeping the forum from falling into chaos.
So yes, people are right if they say that I don't actively moderate PFF. I don't. And never will. I also will never install other moderators. Not because I like being "king", but because that defeats the whole idea of why PFF was started in the first place.
Also, TO/T is part of PFF. Nobody puts a gun to your head and forces you to go there and read and respond to threads. Really. That's like saying you hate the internet and will never browse it again because you hate a certain website. Really, don't go to TO/T if you don't like it. And if you say it has nothing to do with Fiero's then, well, you're right. It hasn't. But just about every single forum has an Off Topic section. Why? Because even though it has nothing to do with the site's topic, it has everything to do with the site's community. If you go to a Fiero show, chances are there's a spot where you can have something to eat and drink and discuss whatever you like. It would be kind of stupid if they had a sign saying that you are only allowed to discuss Fiero related topics. TO/T is just that. A place for the PFF-community to discuss whatever they like. As the topic says, we all share the love for that little mid-engine sporstcar. Chances are we share more interests.
So there you have it.
As for me not answering Bloozberry's PMs anymore, I broke my right hand a few weeks back and have been struggling behind the keyboard ever since. I had to spend twice the time to get half the work done I usually do. And some things simply have a higher priority than answering private messages and reading a bunch of threads. Things that put food in my family's mouth. And I'm sorry to say, but PFF doesn't. Today is the first day without the cast so at least I can type somewhat faster now (and being able to control the mouse with my right hand is a real relief too ).
Fun fact: I've never had a Fiero. (long story short: Joined because I had "bought" one - made a handshake deal and then had to come back later with a trailer - seller backed out as I was on my way to pick it up)
I like orange juice, but dont like to eat oranges. I love banana cream pie (my fav) and pudding, but dont like bananas. I like apple pie, especially dutch, with apples, but you will never find an apple at my house or me eating one. I like ketchup, but HATE tomatoes and tomato soup. Im just picky I guess.
Sucks to see a member go. Honestly though, the cited reason is somewhat lame. I had a mini-truck. I lowered the heck out of it vastly reducing it's usefulness as a "truck". It was a kingcab and I filled that part of the cab with woofers, making it so things couldn't be carried there including passengers. MANY, people didn't have a problem telling me they thought it was stupid. So what? If the internet was then what it is today, I wouldn't have got all upset if my truck came up in a discussion somewhere on the internet and someone was voicing their dislike of what I did to it. My best friend had a Toyota mini-truck that was 4wd with raised suspension and 36" tires. I doubt he ever took offense at the lowered crowds dislike of the raised as I never took offense of the raised dislike of the lowered. Different people like different things, whatever, move on, it's not the end of the world. People will do things to cars that others don't like and others will express their dislike just as much as others will express their like.
Other than that, I've been on this forum for awhile to. Not as far back as 99, but I can remember 84bill and Phranc. I can remember how mean things got and now, well it's not often I see it get that bad. So for those that think it's bad here now? Well, it's been worse. No biggy though. Just don't read and if you do read don't respond to the garbage.
Edit: Oh and BDub, I won't say I love you but I do admire you minus the whole DUI thing. We all make mistakes, so you're okay in my book .
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 02-24-2015).]
So, do you just hang around here for the friendship, camaraderie, and genuine feelings of love?
I want(ed) another Fiero! I kinda still do, but less so. Priorities.
I liked it at first. Looked up to a bunch of members. Had a few good times. Met a lot of good people. Honestly, I got the friendship, camaraderie, and love.
Anymore I just come to see the latest news of the place I regarded so well for so long. But I've gotten bitter. I think a lot of people here are complete morons. Somewhat unfortunately, I don't mind being the asshat that tells them that. So instead of learning stuff here, I ended up just coming here to bicker, which isn't healthy really. So I don't come here as often anymore. I'm not the same as I was when I joined. I like that about myself, but I know a lot of the other members don't like the change I made over time. What they don't realize is I think exactly the same as back then, I just never piped up back then because I respected the people more--even if they were ignorant and arrogant.
So I don't know exactly why I came back today. Or why I posted yesterday. 90% of the members here have been saying the same thing for the past 10 years and refuse to think for themselves, so what's the point in even having the communication? Probably boredom. Reddit isn't busy, Facebook is having a slow day. And I want to put off that project at work for 15 more minutes because I know I'll be deep in it for the next couple hours.
I'm doing a Beer Run for charity. To raise money for my group's Relay for Life team. I thought about posting here, then thought: I've been a complete ******* for the past 6 months or more on here. Who would donate to my charity? It was then that I realized that maybe the filter I used to have should come back a little. Maybe I shouldn't be so bitter. That guy that keeps inviting himself EVERY TIME I have lunch, maybe I shouldn't be so annoyed.
Anyway, I don't know why I still come back I guess. Something draws me back. Take that for what it's worth.
I want(ed) another Fiero! I kinda still do, but less so. Priorities.
I liked it at first. Looked up to a bunch of members. Had a few good times. Met a lot of good people. Honestly, I got the friendship, camaraderie, and love.
Anymore I just come to see the latest news of the place I regarded so well for so long. But I've gotten bitter. I think a lot of people here are complete morons. Somewhat unfortunately, I don't mind being the asshat that tells them that. So instead of learning stuff here, I ended up just coming here to bicker, which isn't healthy really. So I don't come here as often anymore. I'm not the same as I was when I joined. I like that about myself, but I know a lot of the other members don't like the change I made over time. What they don't realize is I think exactly the same as back then, I just never piped up back then because I respected the people more--even if they were ignorant and arrogant.
Anyway, I don't know why I still come back I guess. Something draws me back. Take that for what it's worth.
Dont go What more do you need? Just dont go I enjoy and read your posts, there are a couple of people that get more than just a look and you are one of them.
Hit the back button and just enjoy Life is short, enjoy long legs and short posts
As frustrating as OT can be, it's as informative as any other section of the forum. If you weed through all the BS, politics, dick measuring, and general absurdity, I get some of my best information here. Some of the most interesting things I've ever seen we brought up here. If something is "news" you can be almost certain someone will start a discussion about it. And what's more, with all the discussion that is often generated you're most certain to get a lot of resources if you're interested in the facts.
It *is* too bad more people can't just gloss over the nonsense they don't like and just enjoy the parts they do. Although, our world is getting like that it seems, everyone is looking for a reason to be upset instead of a reason to be happy.
The only thing more sad than leaving this forum because it doesn't comply to your personal agenda is telling everyone you are leaving because it doesn't comply to your personal agenda.
As frustrating as OT can be, it's as informative as any other section of the forum. If you weed through all the BS, politics, dick measuring, and general absurdity, I get some of my best information here. Some of the most interesting things I've ever seen we brought up here. If something is "news" you can be almost certain someone will start a discussion about it. And what's more, with all the discussion that is often generated you're most certain to get a lot of resources if you're interested in the facts.
The only thing more sad than leaving this forum because it doesn't comply to your personal agenda is telling everyone you are leaving because it doesn't comply to your personal agenda.
Yes to both.
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I speak English. Sue me.
[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 02-24-2015).]
As frustrating as OT can be, it's as informative as any other section of the forum. If you weed through all the BS, politics, dick measuring, and general absurdity, I get some of my best information here. Some of the most interesting things I've ever seen we brought up here. If something is "news" you can be almost certain someone will start a discussion about it. And what's more, with all the discussion that is often generated you're most certain to get a lot of resources if you're interested in the facts.
It *is* too bad more people can't just gloss over the nonsense they don't like and just enjoy the parts they do. Although, our world is getting like that it seems, everyone is looking for a reason to be upset instead of a reason to be happy.
I like orange juice, but dont like to eat oranges. I love banana cream pie (my fav) and pudding, but dont like bananas. I like apple pie, especially dutch, with apples, but you will never find an apple at my house or me eating one. I like ketchup, but HATE tomatoes and tomato soup. Im just picky I guess.
Thanks Cliff, for putting up with us. What you posted was pretty much what I expected except that I didn't know about your injury. Hope your rehabilitation goes fast. I would love to see Blooze back and all the hard feelings healed over. Even though the postings seemed to be very articulate I can't help feeling that it has all been a huge misunderstanding. Sometimes our feelings color our perception too much. edited to add about the rating bar, I don't understand why my arrow moves back and forth while the ratings count remains the same. Does that mean that previous raters change their mind back and forth. Not complaining, just curious.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 02-25-2015).]
Thanks Cliff, for putting up with us. What you posted was pretty much what I expected except that I didn't know about your injury. Hope your rehabilitation goes fast. I would love to see Blooze back and all the hard feelings healed over. Even though the postings seemed to be very articulate I can't help feeling that it has all been a huge misunderstanding. Sometimes our feelings color our perception too much. edited to add about the rating bar, I don't understand why my arrow moves back and forth while the ratings count remains the same. Does that mean that previous raters change their mind back and forth. Not complaining, just curious.
originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I'm not asking, since... well... I know what it is, but I've seen this question pop up already - even though it's only been active for less than 30 minutes!
I didn't exactly know what to call it, but I saw someone call it a "recent ratings trend indication". And that's really what it is - with a slight twist. But I'll explain that later.
The short explanation is, that it's an indication of how you've been rated in the past 30 days. If someone rates you positive, the indicator moves to the right (to the green zone). If someone rates you negative, it moves to the left.
Now the long explanation.
First of all, this indicator works completely separately from the "normal" ratings. Meaning nothing has changed to the way the rating system works. You still get banned once you reach a certain amount of negative ratings.
Anyway, this indicator actually displays a value between -20 and +20 (this may actually change once it's out of its test phase but for now its -20 and +20). Whenever someone rates you positive, his rating will add +1 to this number. When someone rates you negative, his rating will add -1 to this number.
Let's call these "nudges" since it's not the same as a rating. These "nudges" expire over 30 days. But they don't expire at once, the expire gradually over these 30 days.
For example: you have a trending value of zero. You get a positive rating. Now your trending value is +1. A day later, your trending value is 0.97 (or 29/30) if nobody has rated you in the mean time. Another day later, your trending value is 0.93 (or 28/30). After 15 days, your trending value is 0.5. And at day 30, its zero again (as long as nobody else has rated you in those 30 days).
But let's say you receive a negative ratings after 15 days. Then your trending value will be 0.5 - 1 = -0.5.
What's the use of all this?
First of all, people can no longer hide behind their ratings bar. I've seen it happen too many times now: people with enough green in their bar- so that it's virtually impossible to get banned - behaving like total arseholes. With this new trending system, it doesn't matter how much green you have; receive a bunch of negatives in a short period of time and your trending indicator will drop like crazy. And you guessed it, if the trending indicator reaches it's minimum, an autoban will follow. So no more hiding behind your green bar.
Second, and I know you will love this: you can actually refresh your rating. So if you have already rated someone negative (or positive), just rate him negative (or positive) again. This will not impact his total ratings, but it will reset your "nudge" to it's max value of -1 (or +1).
And if you don't refresh your rating, your rating will eventually no longer count for this trending value. So the trending value will always be current.
Now I just need a good name for it. Karma, Trending, ... ?
As frustrating as OT can be, it's as informative as any other section of the forum. If you weed through all the BS, politics, dick measuring, and general absurdity, I get some of my best information here. Some of the most interesting things I've ever seen we brought up here. If something is "news" you can be almost certain someone will start a discussion about it. And what's more, with all the discussion that is often generated you're most certain to get a lot of resources if you're interested in the facts.
It *is* too bad more people can't just gloss over the nonsense they don't like and just enjoy the parts they do. Although, our world is getting like that it seems, everyone is looking for a reason to be upset instead of a reason to be happy.
Me too...good post.
I havent had a Fiero or Fiero based car for well over 10 years. I just hang out here any at all because I have quite a few personal friends here. I try to help as much as I can with my 60+ years of experience in everything Ive done. Ive done a LOT. I sometimes have been into 2 or 3 businesses at the same time. About the only subjects Im not at least a bit knowledgeable are routine sports, like stick and ball stuff. My resume covers everything from a semi truck driver to an Air Force pilot. (although some would consider an F4 a truck )
This is and has always been a self regulating forum. Those that don't like something and expect some third party admin to do all the regulating for them, should leave. If i don't like something enough, I just stay out of it. It's just that simple for me. I'm not saying blooze is wrong, I'm saying he made the right choice for him. His knowledge will be missed.
I'll miss his build thread. He sure did detailed work.
It's too bad he couldn't just ignore the other forum areas. Kind of like TV channels you are not interested in, like MSNBC or Shopping Network. Just don't go there.
