I agree with shooting someone if they break into your house and you feel threatened. But to repeatedly shoot someone who is on the ground in pain not trying to hurt you anymore is rather excessive. The same thing as if you got into a fist fight with someone and you continued to beat on them once they were on the ground, trying to leave the fight or knocked unconscious at that point you are no longer defending yourself you are being a viscous animal.
On my drive home I listened to WCCO Radio, a very liberal radio station. The consensus of the people calling in was that he went a bit too far, but it wasn't murder in the eyes of the listeners. At this point I'm with that majority. I think this will end with a hung jury.
I think he went too far, but if it is in fact true that his place had been broken into multiple times that must really affect a person. As someone said earlier a psychological assessment is definitely in order. Maybe he snapped as a result of multiple break-ins (would make an obvious defense case), maybe he was deranged already. Watching two young people die right before your eyes has to affect you, too.
Adrenalin and endorphins can do some crazy things to you.
I agree with others that there must be more to this story. I'd definitely like to see tox screens. I'd also like to know if the first shot on each intruder was a fatal shot. That might render the "execution" shots irrelevant if their wounds were already not survivable.
I'd like to know more as well. What kind of ammunition? Was the first shot a fatal gut wound and he didn't want the first intruder to suffer while bleeding out?
Same thing could have happened with the girl. Why did she follow downstairs after hearing gunshots if she and her partner were unarmed?
Gotta agree with with maryjane, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I think it's really a shame that this old guy was put in this position, and he didn't know how to react.
While this story sounds fishy... My Carry instructor AND the Federal Officer I work with daily, say the exact same thing... If you draw your gun, you shoot to kill. As Aceman said, Center Mass and pop off 6 rounds. I have undergone Civilian firearm training and Federal firearm training. Both state the same, you do not shoot to injure, you shoot to kill.
If an unknown amount of people break into my home I'm going to make sure they are in no condition to get back up and attack me. It takes a split second to go from live to dead, I would rather be alive to tell my side of the story then have the CSI have to do it.
But you don't have to be dead to be incapacitated.
Originally posted by Boondawg: It feels to me like he killed those kids because he wanted to, not because he had to.
I don't know everything in this case, but I agree. Furthermore, I think self defense varies by state, some depending on whether you have a way to leave or if they have any weapon comparable to what you have (a gun in this case).
I don't think he'll get murder unless he continues to show no remorse for his actions. He could easily plead down to some kind of manslaughter or less if there's any evidence of his house being broken into.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 11-27-2012).]
Forgotten on PFF perhaps, but not in Little Falls Minnesota.
Forgotten in most of the world as well as PFF. It wasn't raciallly charged, so there won't be any huge protests and national media attention. It's a local tragedy that won't create a national sensation.
I'm not happy about that. It just is what it is. It's what humanity has become.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
This whole story is fishy. Even if completely true (as reported), this old guy needs to be locked up.
He is locked up.
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Originally posted by Patrick: For all we really know, he could've enticed these kids into his house and then summarily executed them.
For all we really know, the two had broken into houses before and were habitual thieves.
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Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-27-2012).]
You never know how or what an intruder is going to do when you confront them. We just last year I think had an 80 year old woman attacked by a guy from MA, he stabbed her a sh!tload of times before just leaving her home and not stealing anything. He just pled guilty.
Originally posted by Patrick: What's your point, Steve? Teenagers should be shot on sight?
My point is not all teens are the same, just like we are not the same. You never know if an intruder is armed, nuts or anything else. We still don’t know if these kids were armed, or what their intentions were. Why would the second kid come down the stairs to the basement after hearing a gunshot if the other teen was not armed? Any sane person would have run away from the gunfire not to it unless they were armed or nuts. Was this guy wrong as far as this articles yes, he went too far. But if they were armed, he may not have. Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Why would the second kid come down the stairs to the basement after hearing a gunshot if the other teen was not armed? Any sane person would have run away from the gunfire not to it unless they were armed or nuts.
We don't even know for sure that these kids were intruders.
The sheriff's departments believes it to be a burglary from their investigation. And we now know that the 17 year old girl had an addiction problem and has been in and out of substance abuse treatment more than once. The 18 year old's grandfather/adoptive father even stated that the boy was not exactly on the right path in life.
It's not the newstory that I'm afraid is BS... it's the killer's story I'm wondering about!
It is not like he is walking away on bail, he has what a 2 million dollar bail. The police and the DA are investigating this deeply and we will eventually get more from the police. The man is already in jail and charged with murder so he will have his day in court.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
You're making a lot of assumptions, but even if true, they deserved to be executed in the manner reported?
I feel pretty safe in betting that it will come out that they burglarized the place before. They headed for the basement where his valuables were kept.
Did the man deserve to be tormented by the burglaries he endured over the past couple years? The last one occurring less than a month ago.
