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Execution, Or Self-Defense? by Boondawg
Started on: 11-27-2012 11:32 AM
Replies: 166 (2359 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 05-03-2014 02:34 PM
Boondawg
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
A 64-year-old Minnesota man was charged Monday with murder for killing two teenagers who he said broke into his Little Falls home, shooting them in the head, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported.

Byron David Smith was arrested after he told police he shot and killed two teenagers who he said were breaking into his home on Thanksgiving Day.
"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith of Little Falls told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17, both of Little Falls. The teens were shot on Thanksgiving Day, but their deaths weren't reported until Friday.

Brady has also used the name Schaeffel, which is his mother’s maiden name, at times for family reasons, according to the sheriff's office.

In the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his remote home about 10 miles southwest of Little Falls when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Fearful after several break-ins, according to the complaint, Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

"Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.

Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Brady, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the compliant, but also that he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The following day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

"Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared at Morrison County District Court on Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

Smith's actions "sound like an execution" rather than legitimate self-defense, said David Pecchia, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association. Pecchia said his statements to investigators suggest he had eliminated any threat to his safety by wounding the cousins.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth more than $3,000 and a ring worth $300.

Little Falls is about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis.

Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, attended Smith's hearing. She told the Star Tribune she wished the man had fired a warning shot or alerted the police instead of shooting the teens.

"It wasn't right for them to be there and, yes, he had a right to defend himself. But to execute them like that..."


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_...ged-with-murder?lite
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not sure, it seems like it could go either way. I do not envy the judge of that case.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He clearlly went too far. He would have been fine if he stopped after he shot them below the waist.

He will likely be convicted of murder just like the pharmacist was last year.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
would it be OK to rape them as well?

and - self defense? did these girls attack him?

no mention of robbery either.

I have doubt these girls even broke in. he kidnapped them. and interogated them, trying to find out who got his goods last month.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28
"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you,..
"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.


I personally dont agreee with how he did it, and wouldnt have done it.
But the law is on his side. I do believe deadly force should be the homeowners choice if the homeowner feels threatened. Why didnt they leave?

For sure he needs psycological evaluation.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:

would it be OK to rape them as well?

and - self defense? did these girls attack him?

no mention of robbery either.

I have doubt these girls even broke in. he kidnapped them. and interogated them, trying to find out who got his goods last month.


Well, we can only go by what we see here, luckily we arent the real jury.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for F355spiderSend a Private Message to F355spiderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:

would it be OK to rape them as well?

and - self defense? did these girls attack him?

no mention of robbery either.

I have doubt these girls even broke in. he kidnapped them. and interogated them, trying to find out who got his goods last month.


Only you could make up this kind of crap. Judged before the trial. Typical Liberal trash making up stories to fuel your agenda. Same thing that the Liberal press did with Zimmerman. Why not find out all the facts before you judge??

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It feels to me like he killed those kids because he wanted to, not because he had to.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:

He clearlly went too far. He would have been fine if he stopped after he shot them below the waist.

He will likely be convicted of murder just like the pharmacist was last year.


Agreed
Now if the idiot had said after the first shot they kept coming at him and he kept firering he might have got away with it, but he didn’t. The worst thing you can do is talk to the police after something like this; just say you want a lawyer before you say anything in any situation like this. Protect your own ass, but by his own statements he admitted to putting them both out of their misery.
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[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
self defence does NOT include killing wounded people while on the ground

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Purple86GTSend a Private Message to Purple86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! A good clean death??? WTF is wrong with people like this??? Sounds like he murdered one then took care of a witness... sick... Once they were injured, he could have checked them for weapons etc and hand them over to the police... Imagine cops doing this? Offercer Smith shot the perpatrator in the waist, then shot him again in the face to give him a clean death. Yeah... OK BUHHHHDY...
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In keeping with the morals of the day, I need to know a few things before passing final judgement.

What race were the victims and the shooter?
I'll need to see baby pictures of the victims to properly determine guilt or innocence based on the appropriate level of outrage. A mug shot of the shooter would be helpful as well.

If only guns were outlawed, those little CHILDREN would have never been forced to break into his home.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by F355spider:
Only you could make up this kind of crap. Judged before the trial. Typical Liberal trash making up stories to fuel your agenda. Same thing that the Liberal press did with Zimmerman. Why not find out all the facts before you judge??


not judging - speculating what actually happened.
because the story this guy is telling is a lie
not sure what agenda you are talking about? and what "liberal" has to do with it?
you sound quite defensive.
perhaps you approve of killing girls? whats your angle here?

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Agreed
Now if the idiot had said after the first shot they kept coming at him and he kept firering he might have got away with it, but he didn’t.


Is he an idiot because he told the truth?
Or because he didn't lie to get away with it?

I always see alot of suggestions in these kinds of cases that the story you should tell is not exactly what really happened.
At least this guy told the truth.
"I got tired of getting ripped off, and I swore I would kill the very next person that broke into my house. Not wound, kill."

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


not judging - speculating what actually happened.
because the story this guy is telling is a lie
not sure what agenda you are talking about? and what "liberal" has to do with it?
you sound quite defensive.
perhaps you approve of killing girls? whats your angle here?


Nicholas is a strange name for a girl. Perhaps you're saying he killed them because Nicholas was gay?
It would fit with the rest of your "logic."

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RallasterSend a Private Message to RallasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If everything with the encounter was reported fully, the guy crossed the line.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think even here in Texas, the grand jury would would send it to trial for murder or manslaughter.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:
Nicholas is a strange name for a girl. Perhaps you're saying he killed them because Nicholas was gay?
It would fit with the rest of your "logic."


hmmm - well, that changes things. its OK to kill boys, donchaknow


no, sticking with he killed them because he's not right in the head. but, yeah - betcha there are quite a few folk who think "gay" is a crime worthy of death
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ls3machSend a Private Message to ls3machEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
doodle

[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TaijiguySend a Private Message to TaijiguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No way in hell I would ever convict the guy if I were on the jury. You break into my house you're taking your life in your hands. Personally, I applaud the old guy, two less degenerates walking around to victimize someone else.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Dead:



The Shooter:

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which goes to show that even thieves can be nice looking, clean cut kids.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:


hmmm - well, that changes things. its OK to kill boys, donchaknow


no, sticking with he killed them because he's not right in the head. but, yeah - betcha there are quite a few folk who think "gay" is a crime worthy of death


It was probably an honor killing, then.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Taijiguy:

No way in hell I would ever convict the guy if I were on the jury. You break into my house you're taking your life in your hands. Personally, I applaud the old guy, two less degenerates walking around to victimize someone else.


Kids sometimes steal.
That don't make them "degenerates".

I'm sure this forum is made up entirely of grownups who never trespassed or stole a single thing as a child.
And niether did thier kids.

Stealing or trespassing is not a crime extreme enough to warrent a death sentence.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Boondawg

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quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Which goes to show that even thieves can be nice looking, clean cut kids.


And even good looking kids make mistakes & use bad judgement.
As can old men.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
17 and 18 yr olds aren't children or kids.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

17 and 18 yr olds aren't children or kids.


They are to me.
They have very little expirence being adults.
They are more "kid" then "adult".

Not an excuse, just a fact.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-27-2012).]

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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess to a centurian, the old man (shooter) is still a youngster as well. I know lots of 'adults' twice and 3X their age that evidently have very little usable experience being adults as well, and they are in no way mentally impaired.

One thing's for sure, those 2 have now accumulated all the life experience they are going to.
Play stupid games--win stupid prizes.
Morons abound.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nitroheadz28Send a Private Message to nitroheadz28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
His methods were questionable at best, but I'd imagine the law will be on his side. I can however sympathize with the fact that he's been burglarized multiple times..

Even though I don't own guns, if someone forced their way in- they'd be getting the edge of our samurai swords until they were maimed enough not to escape
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Report this Post11-27-2012 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


Kids sometimes steal.
That don't make them "degenerates".

I'm sure this forum is made up entirely of grownups who never trespassed or stole a single thing as a child.
And niether did thier kids.

Stealing or trespassing is not a crime extreme enough to warrent a death sentence.



Degenerate: a person who has declined, as in morals or character, from a type or standard considered normal.
Someone who steals is a thief. That would fit the definition of someone who had declined in morals or character from the standard considered normal.

All snark aside, it seems obvious to me, given what the article saying and taking it at face value as the truth, it seems obvious he crossed the line from self defense to murder with the follow-up shots. But that's all depending on that one small article having all the pertinent facts and being accurate. You can bet there's more to the story.

That said, you know as well as I that the world we live in today is not the one you and I grew up in. Kids were allowed to be kids and there weren't so many zero tolerance laws, etc. Kids weren't as likely to get killed for a simple breaking and entering. They were also not as likely to go kill someone for the heck of it or to steal some crap. That's not uncommon these days. It's doubtful they looked as angelic breaking into Smith's home as they did in their school portraits.

What is it about a person's age that makes breaking and entering a harmless prank for a teenager but a serious offense for an adult? (No, I'm not suggesting you said that - but there seems to be the idea that allowances should be made for kids that might not exist for adults)

Don't worry, though. The media will tell us all how outraged we're supposed to be. Since both the victims and shooter are white, this won't be a big news story and will be forgotten in a few weeks.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


Kids sometimes steal.
That don't make them "degenerates".

I'm sure this forum is made up entirely of grownups who never trespassed or stole a single thing as a child.
And niether did thier kids.

Stealing or trespassing is not a crime extreme enough to warrent a death sentence.



I'd say a repeat thief could be qualified as a degenerate. Though true that does not warrant death, such as conviction by a jury to death, they rolled the dice. Rolled the dice as anyone does breaking into someone elses home. Sure alot of degenerates grow up to realize stealing is wrong, while others just try real hard not to get caught, week after week.

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Report this Post11-27-2012 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for htexans1Send a Private Message to htexans1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A double tap to the chest would have taken care of any laughter.

Seriously though, If the man was under imminent threat of bodily harm, self defense is justified.

However, if its a wounded person, incapable of causing you harm, laughing at you because your a lousy shot,(and you kill them for laughing) that is murder.

By the sound of the story (despite the liberal spin in it) it was a "revenge" killing because they laughed at him and his (lack of) shooting skills.

However, the dead cant defend themselves, I wasn't there, and for all I know he could have scored head shots first.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lurkerSend a Private Message to lurkerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
he rendered the male helpless and then executed him.
he rendered the female helpless and then executed her.
double homicide. race, gender, age, red state blue state are irrelevant. murder.

there are a couple of fishy elements to the alleged shooter's story. there's more to this, but it still appears to be murder. we'll see what develops at the trial, if there is one.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Horrible. I am a proponent of protection, but once the threat has ceased, it is time to stop all defensive actions. I hope this guy burns. I read the story yesterday, and if the reporting is true, this guy is a sick individual.
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Report this Post11-27-2012 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now the article doesn’t say if the kids were armed with anything, if they had been that could be only thing that might save him.

But there is no mention of them being armed.

Steve

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Red88FF
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Report this Post11-27-2012 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I want to see a tox screen. Who gets shot and laughs at the shooter.

A whole lot seams fishy with this one. My gut reaction is good, thieves need to be shot. The more it happens the less it will, as a deterrent or we will run out of thieves..

Cruel, for sure.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-27-2012 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:

I want to see a tox screen. Who gets shot and laughs at the shooter.

A whole lot seams fishy with this one. My gut reaction is good, thieves need to be shot. The more it happens the less it will, as a deterrent or we will run out of thieves..

Cruel, for sure.


Shock is a funny thing; you can get hurt real bad and not feel it for second’s even minutes sometimes it didn’t necessarily mean they did drugs.
But I would also like to see 3 tox screens.

Steve

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PURPLE REIGN
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Report this Post11-27-2012 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PURPLE REIGNSend a Private Message to PURPLE REIGNEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While there is 2 sides to everything, you do & should have the right to defend yourself, your home & your family under any circumstances. It's called self defense.

On the other hand, if the "threat" is neutralized & not a threat anymore, your supposed to call authorities, not execute someone by your own judgement or because they are laughing at you.

But i'll tell ya one thing, your break into MY home and you ARE putting your life in MY hands !!!! You wanna find out what type of weapons, how big & how many, just go ahead & crawl through that window !!!!
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Red88FF
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Report this Post11-27-2012 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Red88FFSend a Private Message to Red88FFEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Shock is a funny thing; you can get hurt real bad and not feel it for second’s even minutes sometimes it didn’t necessarily mean they did drugs.
But I would also like to see 3 tox screens.

Steve



sure, I know all about shock, but who would think being shot and about to be shot again would be funny, really. Something is a miss here.


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Formula88
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Report this Post11-27-2012 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:

sure, I know all about shock, but who would think being shot and about to be shot again would be funny, really. Something is a miss here.



Adrenalin and endorphins can do some crazy things to you.

I agree with others that there must be more to this story. I'd definitely like to see tox screens. I'd also like to know if the first shot on each intruder was a fatal shot. That might render the "execution" shots irrelevant if their wounds were already not survivable.
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