I don't mind banners, particularly if their Fiero related. I don't mind any banners actually. They're easier to disopse of then regular junk mail which I have to recycle. All you need to do is click the "X". Someone else mentioned supporting the Forum by selling related items as CD's, shirts, hats. I already bouught the CD to support the Forum. That's a good idea and might work but someone, Cliff?? would have to run it. Just more work for Cliff. Anyplace else that I am a "member", I pay dues or a membership fee. $12,000 divided by 4000 users/members is $3.00 a year. A $5.00 donation by all members would more than cover yearly fees to your ISP. The only trouble with donations is it requires people to "remember" to donate their share, whereas a user fee provides service. I don't pay my ISP, I don't even see the Forum, let alone get to participate. Sey up an account for money to be sent, perhaps the same as for the CD sales, and just have the ISP hit that for their charges. Where do I send my "fee/donation"?
I think I will start with simple and cheap banners on the top of the page. Mind you, they will be on every single page. I have changed the sample a bit, because I think original banners are too big. Click here to see how it will look.
I will start with cheap banners, I really don't think $50 per month is all that expensive and like I said, this gives the smaller Fiero businesses a chance to advertise on the forum as well.
Banners are rotated, which means that all banners get the same exposure. If a larger vendor wants a higher exposure, he can buy a bigger slot, which means that his banner will be displayed more often than others.
I truly regret that this time has finally come, but to make it worthwhile for all parties involved, I will accept fiero related banners only, and I will make it easy for an advertiser to change his banner during a one-month run. This way he can easily set up special offers for members and stuff. Maybe I can even offer a discount to vendors who offer special discounts to forum-members. I have no idea yet how to implement this, but I will start working on something.
Seriously, no problems here. Actually, what's your address? Not to send money... No! Er, we... uh, want to send... you... Flowers? Yeah! Flowers!
I vote anonymous donations. Anyone with information as to Cliff's whereabouts, and willing to dump X dollars into an unreturnable unmarked envelope, PM me!
Whatever it takes. The banner isn't that bad. PFF merchandise is a good idea. We need more people to sell stuff through the PFF auction site, and donate a few bucks to you. Just don't shut down the site.
Cliff, I offered to share the "profit" from the decals, you declined!
Here's my deal...I wouldn't mind seeing a banner on your site, and maybe make a whole page of those banners, like a supporters page.
Unfortunately, I will not be able to afford it at $50. I've sold $143 of decals over 3 months. Not that I'm out to make a fortune off of them, but the response has been less than overwhelming. The web site costs me $30/mo so I'm so not making money with them. And the decals are cheap too
What are you waiting for, just sell and put the banners up, you'll be far better off.
------------------ Visit www.purplefiero.com for Show Dates and Fiero Decals and Stuff!
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I have tried to postpone it as long as possible but I'm afraid the time has come to seriously consider putting up a banner. The reason is that the forum is generating so much bandwidth that my ISP is no longer willing to cut me a special deal. I have been able to pay for the forum out of my own pocket up until now, but the new monthly bill simply is going to be too high for me to carry.
I'll be honest about it. The forum alone is going to cost about [b]$1000 per month.
I have three options:
Shut down the forum. Ok, this really isn't an option but if I can't generate the funds to keep the forum up and running, I simply have no other choice...
Putting up sponsered banners. I hate banners, but since I'm just about the only forum on the net that still hasn't got any banners, it would be the best option.
Accepting donations. I don't like that option much, I'll explain why later.
One thing I will not even consider is membership-fees. So please, don't bring that up.
Ok, let me try to explain why I don't like the idea of donations. First of all, people seem to have a nasty habit of thinking that once they have made a donation, they have the right to be on this forum, or they have the right to post/do anything they want ("I've payed for it, haven't I"). So if I would accept donations, it would be totally anonymous. If you make a donation, it will not make you a special member or something./B]
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One thing I will not even consider is membership-fees.
Not attempting to get on your bad side Cliff, just applying a little "mature" rationale and reasoning from a forum member perspective.:
First and foremost, TINSTAAFL or basically, "There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" and that is what you have been providing us, and many of us, including myself have taken advantage of that from time to time, but in the end, this is still your forum and/or house.
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Ok, let me try to explain why I don't like the idea of donations. First of all, people seem to have a nasty habit of thinking that once they have made a donation, they have the right to be on this forum, or they have the right to post/do anything they want ("I've payed for it, haven't I"). So if I would accept donations, it would be totally anonymous. If you make a donation, it will not make you a special member or something.
Even at the bare minimum of $60.00/year for a membership and knowing your costs are averaging $1,000.00/month (or roughly $12,000/year), that only gives any individual 0.5% (less then 1 share) in your site. Not much voting power let alone say if this was the real economic market.
Much like COMMON STOCK in the marketplace, one can own shares, but the individual doesn't have much say in what the corporation actually does, especially if his share is so miniscule (ie: a 0.5% investment) thier voice becomes even less heard, if at all.
Therefore, an individual can b*tch and groan all they want if they pay for a membership and doesn't mean they will get what they want in the end, just shows their maturity level if they attempt to pull that "excuse". "Corporate Island Booting" can then be used.
We'll leave any PROXY voting out of the equation.
Now if it was PREFERRED STOCK...
Anyways, I understand where you're coming from. You started and host the greatest site when it comes to Fiero's and people being able to meet and get together.
To me, it would be worth spending a "membership" fee which I (as well as others) fully understand it does not grant myself (us) the "Oyster to the World" to do whatever we want in your principle place of business. Still have to abide by the "Corporations" wishes, rules, goals and directions. If somebody doesn't like it...they can discontinue participating which, as others have stated, may clean up some of the "riff-raff" that may be coming to your site to do nothing more then cause problems. Those that are more serious and willing to contribute to the knowledge or assist others in a positive manner, will be willing to contribute to continue this sites exsistance.
Cliff, your obviously a proud man, with alot to be proud of. Many of us here seemingly are willing to pay for a membership with the maturity and understanding that it does not grant us special priveledges or anything else just to do what we want, when we want just because we would elect to pay for the privledge to be here or come to your house.
I am concerened about the "BANNER" thing. May or may not work. In time, if it isn't directing traffic (since I hate clicking on banners myself to begin with), over time, you may find individuals pulling and electing not to pay for the service. You will then be right back in the same boat, with a big leak in the bottom, sinking for options.
alright Cliff (Can I call you Cliff? ;-)) I found this site way back in October of 2001 and it has saved me time and a TON (and I mean tonz) of money. I think of this site as a second family. I havent seen a forum like this, that has such a close knit family. When I ask a question (as stupid as it is) I always get a response. I think the banners are a really good idea. If you want to even put a page with thouse stupid "10 cents a click" type banners id even go with that. And im sure all the people wouldent mind clicking that a day. (think of it. if even 3000 peeps clicked it would be 0.10 X 3000 = $300 ) When i had my web site up they paid me $20 (of course i clicked by my self for like 2 months lol) but if we all do it up we can click click click...hey it doesnt bother me by clicking every time i check the fourm. (which is like everyday lol). I donno I guess thats my 10 cents (lol get it? 10 cents? lol) Keep up the good work!
I say, add the banners, all other sites i visit have them, I have learned how to ignore them.
Membership might or might not work. I am sure there are several households, like mine, that have more than one person with a user name, that use the forum. So, with that in mind, I would only pay for, afford, one membership and our whole house would have to share it. The amount of users would also diminish drastically. There are not many forums out there, which charge membership fees, that arent **** sites.
Well thats my two pennies. Thanks Cliff, and I know I never thank you enough !!!!!!!!
Go for it. Who cares if there is anoying pop ups. They're everywhere else on the internet, so one more won't matter.. As for just Fiero related.. that sounds like a bad idea.. Doesn't sound like a way to bring in much money. Just throw up car related banners like autotrader.com and such.
To keep the site up i would happily deal with ads please do anything in apropriate sp that i can still access it from school because that is where i read this the most the internet here has some restrictions so please keep it clean
------------------ 87 GT Holley Side Scoop K&N Air Filter Home Page
I think the response is all the same. Do what you have to do to keep this open. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we all appreciate this forum, and we don't want to see it die!
I even think placing a banner at the bottom wouldn't be a bad idea, and would double the sponsor's visibility. At the size you've shown in your example, they are far from obnoxious, and like other members have said, they will even help people find parts or new vendors for parts.
1,000 dollars a month is a large burden to take upon yourself, and if there is any way we can help, we will do it!
Also put up a donation link with a way for people to send in a few bucks here and there. You'll be suprised at the amount people will help, and if anyone thinks that they are paying their way and can have their say...we'll show 'em the right road. I don't mind sending in a couple bucks to keep this going.
Whatever it takes Cliff, the forum is a very useful tool to all us fiero owners. Please keep up the good work, best run site I have been on. Thank you Gary
Originally posted by The Fieromaster: Cliff... You have provided us faithfully with an AMAZING site to chat with other Fiero owners. Any banner wouldnt bother me... even the shock and punch the monkey ones! lol. I would even less mind it if they were Fiero banners! Although pop-ups SUCK id even deal with them to participate on this forum!
i agree with fieromaster it would be worth puttin up with any ads not matter whatthey are to be able to particaoate in this forum this is a great place cliff on i would have to loose this forum keep up the amazining work cliffthank you cliff mike
You have my blessing to do whatever you gotta do, to keep this forum alive. I wouldn't mind shock the monkey, X-10, ****, whatever. As long as we get to keep using the BEST FORUM ON THE INTERNET!!
I'm for banners 100%.. I (like everyone else) never realized how much it cost you to keep this Forum running.. I'm for anything you want to do.. Monthly Fee's, Banner's, whatever...
Whatever it takes Cliff!!!! This forum is and has been so valueble to me over the last 8 months that I'm willing to put up with just about anything except popups--they always lock up my computer.
I say go for it. It ridiculous to think that you alone should shoulder the costs of providing this service.
You should also think about limiting peoples signature files. I personally think it's abusive that some of the members have large images in their sig file and they use it for EVERY post. That has got to unnecessarilly eat up a lot of bandwidth. it's wasteful and unappreciative of the effort and resources required to keep this site running.
I think you should also consider selling memberships. $50-$60 per year. It would allow those of us ho wish to help bear the cost of continuing to keep this site in operation. Buying one wouldn't have to be required to post or participate in the forum. That could still be done free as it is now. You could just give the paying members a few extra benefits. For example:
A members only forum
A small image posted under our name in every post
Maybe a Fiero related e-mail account.
I'm sure are other features that could be extended to paying members as well.
I have seen this doen successfully on another discussion board that I frequent.
A banner is no big deal at all. I'd say the only good thing about membership fees is that it reduces the troublemakers. I also think that if everyone can put up with the crap that's been going on lately, a little banner is no big deal. I'm sure it's been said, but I didn't want to look through the three pages that are already there. If it's Fiero-related, even better! Except, whatever you do, don't put http://www.fierosite.com on there. Sorry Galen! Yeah, go for it!
Nothing Animated, and limited to Fiero/car related content and you've got my vote!
Try not to take up too much screen real estate (in the black part of the top bar maybe.)
Cliff, I may be able to donate some bandwidth (US mirror?)
How about both, anonymous member donations, AND banners?
Best! Ben.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" 88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
Cliff, You have been good enough to provide this forum, and let us all be members and use your web space FREE OF CHARGE. And, on top of that, I don't even own a Fiero. I have enjoyed being a member, and appreciate that there is a place for me to post my inane drivel for others to see. You don't need anyone's OK to do what you need to do to keep this forum from being a financial burden to you...but the fact that you asked our opinion about the ads just confirms that you are more than decent and generous. If it means anything, I welcome the ads, because I know they'll benefit you. Thanks again Cliff.
maybe a eazyer sell if you donot limit banners to only fiero related stuff we need and use stuff like, general auto parts, insurance, GM or others new cars wheels tyres, wax and wash stuff spark plug co adds gas or oil co adds auto paint shops [chains] or any body who wants to pay you like cars shows auto auctions car mags like hotrod or autoweek
j/k.
As for just Fiero related.. that sounds like a bad idea.. Doesn't sound like a way to bring in much money. Just throw up car related banners like autotrader.com and such.
