Originally posted by Philphine: whatever it takes.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I agree that there might be a bidding war. This place has got to be the best Fiero resource I have ever seen. On or off the web.
I am also not against yearly subscriptions. And since the subscribers would pay, the subscribers could also vote whether troublemakers would get bounced, thereby saving you from that responsibility. It might also weed out the folks who sign up "just for the hell of it". Might help to improve the ratio of serious members.
Cliff, I may be new, but I have gained a lot of info from this forum. Thanks a Lot!!!
I would definately put up with banners, I would agree with a few of the other people and would like to see ads for other things besides Fiero's. Like Tires/wheels, or something other product that can be used on my car. Thanks a lot!!
Cliff, The sample banner looks great. I want to spend my Fiero dollars with businesses that support this forum. Sell the banners so we can see who they are. Companies like Tirerack and GMpartsdirect should be included. They get more plugs than most and should be supportive of your efforts. The PFF merchandise is a great idea also. Thanks for putting up with all the crap. This is a great forum. jp
Do whatever you need to keep the site up. I wouldn't mind banners or even paying a subscription, though i know you don't want to do that. I do have a suggestion on the bandwidth issue. Newcelica.org has had a huge bandwidth problem and they have done things like asking people to store pictures and sigs on their own servers and just provide links. Also, you may want to limit the gallery. That must eat up tons of bandwidth.
It's all you man. I get tagged with so many pop ups on other pages where I don't think you could come up with something that would bother me. It's those rapid fire pop ups that get me. One after another where you can hardly shut them fast enough. Next thing you know, you shut the page you were bringing up. HAH!
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: The banners will be [b]Fiero-related. Anything other than that simply doesn't work. So it will not be those annoying banners you see on other sites, and most certainly no ****, no x10 camera, no "you are today's winner".[/B]
What about "X10 for your Fiero?" or "You have won a Fiero?"
Sorry....
quote
Just so you know where I was thinking of placing the banners, click this link for an example page.
That looks great. Unobtrusive; fits well with the page.
Cliff, I am among those who feel that the Forum is worth paying for, but I appreciate deeply that you wish to keep it free. As one who has (occasionally) abused his "rights" on the Forum, I laud your restraint on several fronts, and I'm sure that the choices you make will reflect on your history thus far.
I saw a brief story on the news a while ago about a family that wanted to build an addition on their house, which the neighbors opposed (due to construction noise, I believe). What did the family do? They painted their house the most garish colors that they could find. I can't imagine Cliff doing this....
Cliff, we are all guests here in your "house" so to speak. Whatever you say goes. I also like the idea of the merchandise. You could sell a $10 t-shirt for $20 and we both get something out of it.
Whatever you decide to do I will still be here everyday. Thanks for everything you have done so far for us all.
Cliff- you've definitely got my backing on this. I actually like the idea of Fiero-related ads, as well as other related places as mentioned above (Tirerack.com, GMPartsDirect.com, JCWhitney.com, etc). There really aren't many good places for Fiero-related businesses to advertise anyway!
BTW: As for the idea of a page with all the banners... I wouldn't suggest this as a substitute for displaying them- but a good idea. It's a great "reference" to find that banner that you thought was interesting... but forgot who it was and don't like hitting the "refresh" button until you find it again
Membership would no doubt drop , and quality may go up.
Even if the numbers dropped in half you would have over $2000 to pay for the forum. Setup a paypal Acct , or monthly payment plan. Cliff , you are far too nice and have to start looking out for your own interests. You shouldn't have to fork over a dollar. I for one would be more than happy to pay for the valuable information that I recieve.
Set it up so people could buy 1 year at a discounted rate of $10.
If there are 2000 serious members on the forum then you would have enough to cover costs and perhaps even some improvements. This forum is a service like any other and should be treated like it. PayPal has an international feature in which you could setup an account.
I thought of suggesting charging for the use of the mall , but Ithink people would just turn to the mailing lists or other mediums.
I wouldn't rely on banners alone , it may not be enough to pay the bills at the end of the month. There are a few places I could think of that would get involved with banners , but it's hard to speculate how much income this would generate. How much do you charge for a banner and how long does it get to stay? What about all the infighting on the forum. People start a post and Bad mouth Shop XYZ , then shop XYZ wonders why it has a banner on a forum where they are being bad mouthed. They get upset , the banner is removed and you have more headaches on your hand.
Just some ideas.
JM
[This message has been edited by Slammed Fiero (edited 04-11-2002).]
Banner ads are fine with me, Cliff. I hate the pop ups, but since you do too, that's not an issue.
I would be willing to make a donation, buy PFF merchandise, purchase a membership, etc. This place it too good of a resource to loose.
I like the idea of "Official" PFF merchandise, too. T-shirts, Hats, etc. Maybe that would help.
I would encourage anyone who sells on the Mall regularly to purchase a banner ad, if and when they are available. I, for one, will start my Fiero vendor search there. If I have a choice between a PFF advertiser and a non-PFF advertiser, the PFF advertiser will get my money, hands down.
Yeah, and I'd put a stop to "FieroLisa" threads. That girl causes nothing but trouble. j/k. But, definately curtail the O/T pic threads, and I'd limit the size of pics in general.
One thing I've really loved is the sharing of pics of shows, projects, etc. I'd hate to loose that ability altogether.
I think the sample page looks awesome. I actually would like to see a banner, because it might let me know of a vendor that I have not heard about.
All the vendors in your vendor section are already getting enough free advertising Cliff! They should be more than willing to pay for a banner because of all the business that this Forum has created for them!
Oh, and I think that pictureless sigs (just a few lines of text, not every single mod you have on your car) would be a good idea as well.
The idea about having ever pic that is posted in a thread turned into a link that someone could follow at will is also a good idea. That way, if someone is following a thread, but have seen all the pics in it, they don't download them again and again. They just download the text that says "click for my engine pic" or whatever.
Well it looks like we are all in agreement here. Whatever it takes to keep the site running we will back. I'm new here also and find alot of knowledge here. So do what your heart tells ya....
If banner adds can generate the encessary funds to keep the forum up and running, thats great! I would not care if there were adds on the forum!
If thats not enough, and you decide donations are the way to go, I think you might run into a LOT of them initially, and then won't see many more in the future. It would die out, and you may occasionally have to beg for more.
Cutting down on badnwith here and there may help some, but people are still going to post, and with ever increasing number of members there will be more and more posting.
Membership fees may chase some away, and may cause some not to join. This would not help the forum or the community much. On the other hand, if your paying $1000 per month and there are 4000+ members, it would come down to a Quarter per member per month. A yearly member ship would be a bank-breaking $3. To me this sounds like a screaming bargain for this place... especially compared to the people mailing $35 per year to FOCOA. I know you don't want to go this route, and maybe it would be an administrative headache that wouldn't make it worth it. For members, however, it is next to nothing, and I am sure most people here would gladly pay it.
Banner adds still seem like the easiest route to generate income with the least amount of headaches. Go for it! D
I don't think a lot of us had any idea as to what it costs to put this on. I think the idea of banners is just fine. I think any car related banner would be fine. Some examples, Tire Rack, Auto Zone etc. You might as well get some of the big guns in here too. I sure we all spend enough money with those guys. You could make it a bi-level system. One price for the local guys and another for the bigger companies. Do what you have to do. I sure I speak for everybody that we would not want to lose this forum.
------------------ Silver Fiero owners unite! :D :cool: 87 Silver GT, modding in process :cool:
Originally posted by JSocha: Cliff, do what's you have too in order to keep this place alive if that is your wish. I've met so many wonderful Fieroites on this site, even met some in person and would like to meet more that this site would be a loss to the Fiero Community. We all know that.
I would not mind the banners. And as it was previousley mentioned, it might be beneficial to the Fiero community.
I don't know if you have come up with a format yet, but I would consider taking a look at the LS1 forums ( www.ls1.com ). I feel they have the best banner setup around. It sits up at the top of the screen not taking up much space, and I feel it's very unintrusive.
------------------ 1987GT *for sale*, or trade, PM me for details.
Whatever you decide I will support, Cliff. I'm glad this has come up, because you shouldn't have to pay for the forum at all!
Let us know what you decide. If you set up a paypal account, we could chip in a few bucks each to get some cash flow started until you figure out what you want to do.
So, Cliff, you have to sell 20 banners to break even?
Had no idea the cost was that high! I and a few others give a lot to keep the Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association going, but no where near that much!
Banners are cool for me since they'll be Fiero related.
Good luck!
------------------ Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association Keystone State Chapter, P.O.C.I. P.O.C.I.
Just this last week I was thinking that it would be a good thing if you had banners on your website. It would allow fiero vendors a place to show the fiero community that they exist and what new products they have availible. (think new line of seats from Mr. Mike's or new short shifter from Rodney) It would also allow people like Archie to more easily say, "I want to sell a bunch of body kits, at a discount to the forum."
But let's be reasonable. Cliff, you need to put your sales hat on. What do your potential advertising customers think? Have you called up Rodney Dickman and others who would likely be your advertising customers? If you can't convince them that $50/month gets them a reasonable return then perhaps the way you are doing banners needs to be re-thought. As much as the forum members will say, "sure, put the banners on, as long as they are there in such a way as I can ignore them" you need to make sure that if you are going to take the leap that the product you will be selling will be of value to these vendors.
Cliff, do what you have to do to keep the best Fiero site going. If you have to charge a memberhip fee - that's OK too. I'd consider $10-15 a year, however I don't know if that's gonna cover your costs.
Draft a charter we all have to abide by. Anyone who deviates, then so long. I consult this forum daily. Just like some of us who have to have a coffee in the morning, I also need my Pennock's Forum.
Cliff... You have provided us faithfully with an AMAZING site to chat with other Fiero owners. Any banner wouldnt bother me... even the shock and punch the monkey ones! lol. I would even less mind it if they were Fiero banners! Although pop-ups SUCK id even deal with them to participate on this forum!
------------------ "Raced That, Wrecked Better" ~In Memory Of Jesse Cesek~ 1980-2000 Co-Founder Of ~ NEO Fiero Club (North East Ohio) AOL IM: Fieromaster 1985 GT ~ Purple, Fastback, Black and Yellow Interior, Planning 4G63 Turbo DSM swap for it! 1997 Mitsu Eclipse GSX ~ Maroon w/ Hella Balls!(GSX = AWD, Turbo) DOA on 12/10/2000 1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS ~ soon will be turboed
Cliff if pop ups can get you the money you require then go for it. for those who can't deal with pop ups there are quite a few great programs (like pop up stopper) that people can download to get around em.
You have kept this site Banner Free for a long time, and that is great. I appreciate all you have done. Banners are one of the onle ways a site can generate income. The Internet started out all free, but the realization is that it cannot stay free forever. People have expenses to pay even on Forums. I have no problem with Banners, or even popups if that produces the best income to pay for this Forum. I aggree with you stating that donations and members fees are not really an option. You will give up too much control that way, and people will start bugging you for this and that constantly since they feel they own part of your Forum. I guess what I am trying to say is do whatever you feel you need to do. This is your Forum, and the best on the net for Fiero related news and FAQ. Banners are a part of life on the net, and that is just the way it is. Sites have to make money somehow. Since you are not selling a service the only alternative would be Banners.
OKAY!!! I started at the sample banner page and didn't even notice that it was there.
Banners are fine....pop ups suck!!!!
Just a couple of ideas... Put a discrete address where donations may be forwarded (I'll never use paypal). No thanks expected or recognition given.
Make a 'sig' box in the profile at a specified number of characters. Those who want a pic can make a link offsite.
Merchandise is a good idea, although I think it would have to handled thru the US to be viable. Lots of the club sites do it with clothes, window banners, etc (dons flame suit). I'd be willing to be overcharged in the name of a good cause.
I would never have gotten a Fiero had it not been for you guys and Cliff in particular for providing the forum. Thanks guys!!!
As stated above Fiero related banners would be ok with me, in addition......Cliff...think about charging a little fee. All you would need is 2000 members charged $6.00 a year to break even. If you have more members than its cheaper, the one thing I hate about a lot of sites that charge is that they charge so much its obcene.....but there is nothing wrong with charging that which it takes to cover the bills.
My only thought is that I would probrobly cap out at $12.00 a year.
Just a thought.
------------------ Little Duce Coupe "You Don't Know What She Costs"
NO POPUPS. Nox10 adds. No ****. No false you have wons. Other banners are OK.
longjonsilver
------------------ Im the original owner of a white 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983. "It is better to remain quiet and have people think you are a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt" - Abe Lincoln
I think as long as they are Fiero or automotive related ads they may actually be a cloud with a silver lining. Lots of times it's hard to find what you're looking for and ads......as long as they are NOT popups would be fine with me. Try to look on the positive side. This may be a blessing in disguise. It will certainly take some of the financial strain off of you. I SAY GO FOR IT!
I don't think anyone who has used the forum would mind a few banner ads, especially if they are Fiero-Related. Good luck keeping the site going! -FieroRumor
I think the idea of banners is just fine. I think any car related banner would be fine. Some examples, Tire Rack, Auto Zone etc. You might as well get some of the big guns in here too. 
"Raced That, Wrecked Better" 
