as some members may already know I have bought some new Fieros (´87 and ´88 Fiero GT) in the last few months.
In the meantime I have sold the blue Fiero GT and the yellow Fiero SE for getting more space. It was hard to sell my fresh restored ´87 Fiero SE, but I needed a free garage for the new ´88 GT.
My ´88 Fiero GT:
I thought my new ´88 GT is in good shape, but unfortunately I´ve found out that there is something wrong with the transmission/differential (after I´ve sold the yellow Fiero)!
Like the ´87 Fiero SE also my ´88 GT has the Getrag MG-282 5-speed manual transmission.
I´ve recognized some gear whining noises under heavy acceleration, and I have also found out that there is a drive shaft seal leak, too. Then I have checked the Getrag output shafts for any signs of wear/clearance. There is excessive clearance in all directions on both output shafts!
So I assume that the carrier bearings are gone?
Now I´m interested in the root cause for this problem. I´m still using the stock engine in the ´88 GT, while others are driving a V8 powered Fiero! Why do these diff. bearing fail in a low mileage stock Fiero (only 76000 km)?
Next questions is “How I can get this fixed in Austria for low money”?
Thanks, Patrick
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-25-2017).]
When you move an axle around there is always some play even if the differential bearings are 100% tight. Move one axle and watch the other axle. If the differential is loose the other axle will move some.
If it is whining it is worn enough to be pushing against the pinion gear (machined into the intermediate shaft) which means the bearing in the bell housing end is being damaged along with the surface the bearing rides on of the intermediate shaft.
You will possibly/probably need a good intermediate shaft. Plus the bearing/race in the case and new differential bearings. If it has only started whining it may be good enough to reuse the intermediate shaft. drivetrain.com should have many of those intermediate shafts on hand. They bought up like 600+ NOS Quad 4 Getrags and took them apart. I'm not sure if any or all of these Quad 4 transmissions were the 3.94 ratio. If they are and the 3.94 is all they have then you would also need the 3.94 ring gear.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
There is really excessive clearance on the axles. • When I move one axle in axial direction, I see some small movement on the other axle! • If I rotate one axle forth and back, I also some AXIAL movement on the other axle!
This indicates that there is axial clearance on the diff carrier.
So it looks like that I have run into a big problem, because for the repair I gotsta get engine and transmission removed! If I decide to rebuild the MG282 transmission I will need a lot of parts and special tools.
In the meantime I have done some research regarding needed parts and tools:
Required special tools: • Bearing separator kit • Transaxle shim selector kit (Kent Moore J26935)
I hope I don´t need to replace the intermediate shaft due to pitting on the pinion gear. I think it´s maybe not necessary, because the whining noises are quite seldom to her.
Do you know if the bearing race (which I´ll probably need for the intermediate shaft) is also included in the Pro-King trans kit BK234WS?
You do not need the shim tool. If you do this repair the differential can be shimmed by someone who sets up differentials. Someone that sets up differentials knows how tight to shim the bearings. You take the ring gear off. Put the case back together, tighten the bolts and rotate the differential. The person that does differential work will know if it is shimmed too loose, too tight or just right by feel.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
as some members may already know I have bought some new Fieros (´87 and ´88 Fiero GT) in the last few months.
In the meantime I have sold the blue Fiero GT and the yellow Fiero SE for getting more space. It was hard to sell my fresh restored ´87 Fiero SE, but I needed a free garage for the new ´88 GT.
My ´88 Fiero GT:
I thought my new ´88 GT is in good shape, but unfortunately I´ve found out that there is something wrong with the transmission/differential (after I´ve sold the yellow Fiero)!
Like the ´87 Fiero SE also my ´88 GT has the Getrag MG-282 5-speed manual transmission.
I´ve recognized some gear whining noises under heavy acceleration, and I have also found out that there is a drive shaft seal leak, too. Then I have checked the Getrag output shafts for any signs of wear/clearance. There is excessive clearance in all directions on both output shafts!
So I assume that the carrier bearings are gone?
Now I´m interested in the root cause for this problem. I´m still using the stock engine in the ´88 GT, while others are driving a V8 powered Fiero! Why do these diff. bearing fail in a low mileage stock Fiero (only 76000 km)?
Next questions is “How I can get this fixed in Austria for low money”?
Thanks, Patrick
Could be low on trans oil causing it to whine due to the leak? I suspect Joel Goodman or Ferris Buller are the culprits.
[This message has been edited by Silvertown (edited 10-17-2015).]
Since I´m the owner of this ´88 Fiero GT all the oil levels are just right (also as I have gotten the car). I check oil levels very often (especially the trans oil level due to the axle seal leak). Of course, I don´t know how often previous owners have checked the transmission oil level. I guess they have NEVER checked the tranny oil, because in Austria most drivers only check engine oil and noting else. (other things are checked at annually service by mechanics - hopefully).
I have recognized that there is a small difference between the ´87 and the ´88 Fiero Getrag transmissions - they have "improved" the oil filler cap on the newer Getrags! They have changed out the old aluminum filler cap with a quick release plastic cap. The problem with this new plastic cap is that it does NOT SEAL PROPERLY! For this reason someone has added some RTV there!
Maybe one of the previous owners has lost some oil over this plastic cap while driving, which caused critical low oil level and accelerated wear of transmission internals?
Actually this might be the root cause for this early differential bearing failure? (I´m not quite sure if it´s possible to lose so much oil over this plastic cap)
I think the axle seal leak couldn´t be the root cause for the bearing failure, because this seal usually gets leaky after the diff bearings are gone (the radial runout kills the seal).
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-28-2015).]
I have recognized that there´re is a small difference between the ´87 and the ´88 Fiero Getrag transmissions - they have "improved" the oil filler cap on the newer Getrags! They have changed out the old aluminum filler cap with a quick release plastic cap. The problem with this new plastic cap is that it does NOT SEAL PROPERLY! For this reason someone has added some RTV there!
I assume the cap you're referring to is the same style as is on my 5-spd '88 Formula. Eventually, that lever assembly fails to compress and widen the rubber plug enough. Rodney sells a shim especially made for that, but I made a suitable shim in two minutes from a bread bag plastic clip. Works just fine.
A few years ago I attempted a rebuild on a salvaged Getrag. These comments may help if you are not experienced with such work. I had lots of time so went slowly. You will need a hydraulic press and many round adapters for gear and bearing replacement. I also used an upright hydraulic press frame for a holding fixture. Read and reread the Getrag assembly manual and you will see repeated references to special tooling , especially for alignment in final assembly. I made some assembly aids and did get together. Alas the transmission was binding upon completion. I have about $300 in parts and , of course, the enjoyable labor sunk in the unit which sits in garage storage.
I did not touch the ring pinion gears so did not have to worry about mesh and tooth pattern there. Before I disassembled the unit the output shaft could be turned by hand with some effort.. After assembly there was significant drag, and unacceptable. I bought a Beretta salvage unit . It turned easily and lives today in my 85.
Take away? You will hear it many times. Especially with ring pinion set up--experience needed. Another thought after my problem. I remember seeing a Porsche trans case being rebuilt . Careful checking of shaft and case alignment. It is possible the unit I worked on was distorted from overheating.
My advice is to have an experienced shop do the work, or buy a salvage unit and hope in either case. Good luck. I bet there is a good Austrian mechanic eager for work.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 11-02-2015).]
I did not touch the ring pinion gears so did not have to worry about mesh and tooth pattern there. .
You never have to worry about ring and pinion mesh. All transmissions of this nature are self aligning. The pinion gear runs parallel to the ring gear. The clearance between the ring and pinion gear is set by the machining of the cases. It can not be changed (it can be changed but the case has to be welded and re-machined to move the ring gear towards or away from the pinion gear).
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Alas the transmission was binding upon completion. Before I disassembled the unit the output shaft could be turned by hand with some effort.. After assembly there was significant drag, and unacceptable..
Two things:
Loosen the steel side cover. If it gets easier it is the shim on the intermediate shaft. It should have 0 to -.003" under the height of the aluminum case. I think it is 0-.003". I would have to look that up. If it sits above the case the transmission will be hard to rotate. Find shims that sit flush or lower than the aluminum case. From the factory it should have been a select fit shim. One thickness. Most re-builders have a selection of thin shims and put them together to get the right thickness.
Did you change the tapered bearings on the differential? With new bearings you may be too tight on the crush. Again, from the factory it will have a one thickness shim. When they built them they had shims in many thicknesses on hand and could choose the exact right thickness shim. Re-builders have to use thinner shims and put in as many that are needed to get the right crush (tightness). It will be somewhat tight and they wear in to make them set at zero lash. When you change the oil after a few hundred miles the oil will have a silver sheen to it. Find someone locally that does differentials. He will know the right tightness when he rotates the differential by hand. This requires you to take the ring gear off the differential. You may even have the right crush and don't know it. Being tight is normal. I'm not sure how much that is but any differential set up guy would know just by rotating it. It is possible it is hardly noticeable when turning the input shaft but I don't know that answer. Loosening all the case bolts and prying it open slightly would answer this.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
"Bread bag plastic clip" - What the hell is this? I have never seen this before! I´m afraid that this kind of "bread bag plastic clips" is not available on the Austrian marked. However, this is a good idea and I´ll search for an alternative plastic/steel shim for a "DYI flip up lever dip stick repair".
I suspected that perhaps the use of these clips on plastic bread bags was limited to North America, so that's why I included the image of a bunch of different styles of them.
I remember as a teenager a long time ago that I had friends who would use these same plastic clips as guitar picks. See what you're missing out on living in Europe!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-19-2015).]
Rodney, Well your information is interesting, but I don't remember what all I changed (about 12 years back). I can remember (vaguely) that the spline shaft on the salvage unit turned with perhaps a couple ft lbs-it took a firm grip on the spline shaft to turn and I was able to change across all 5 gears and rev. After the "rebuild" the spline shaft would barely turn by hand, perhaps 8-10 ft lbs, and I also could change the gears. The Baretta salvage spline shaft would turn over with two fingers pinched on the pilot tip-I don't think it would register a couple inch pounds. I could go back if anyone is interested in the kit pn I used and I took some pictures, but not digital. As noted the Baretta unit has been sweet. I got it at a yard in Hillsboro OR for $350 about 7-8 years ago. Also back to the rebuild I think I loosened some parts ,but no improvement. BTW if people have not sensed it this effort is not for the faint hearted. Although the Getrag brochure suggests a minimum 12 ton press mine is a 30 ton and I did heave hard with a short handle on some of the gear removals for synchro ring changeout. And there is at least one pre heat (oven). Someone with tenacity and maybe a couple successful efforts can do this. At the time I scoured the net and found one new Getrag in GA, price $1000, so by now they must almost all be rebuilders. You should publish a little paper for the weird ( or desperate) minority,
My advice is to have an experienced shop do the work, or buy a salvage unit and hope in either case. Good luck. I bet there is a good Austrian mechanic eager for work.
Of course, I can find a transmission specialist here in Austria. But the problem in Austria is that working times of mechanics and especially transmission specialists are extremely expensive here!
A few examples: - Full paint job for Mazda Miata: € 3000 - 4000.- - Annually service for Jaguar X-Type: € 700 – 900 .- (just for checking and re-filling some fluids + oil filer and a new battery)
Therefore, I have never visited a car service/repair shop so far. I always repair my cars by myself, but I´m not sure if I have sufficient time for a tranny rebuild.
A salvage unit may be the best option, but where should I get one in Austria/Germany? If I order one from USA I have to pay $535 (best offer so far) for shipping!
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-20-2015).]
Thanks Rodney and Hobbywrench for all this detailed information. I see that I have to deal with a very challenging task in the near future. Honestly, I don´t have any practice experience with transmissions (only theoretical in view of gear train analysis), because I have never had transmission problems on other cars.
However, in case I can´t find a salvage unit here in Austria I´m forced to rebuild the tranny by myself. I think I will only rebuilt the tranny if gears are still in a good or acceptable shape without any pitting or other damages. BTW, for which parts is this +12 ton press required? Hope I don´t need it for bearing replacement (maybe just for bearing races and gears)?
@ hobbywrench You stated that you have only paid about $300 for all essential spare parts needed for a MG282 rebuild? What exactly was included in this rebuilt kit? The old rebuilt MG282 is still lying around in your garage/shop?
Trying to find a good used 282 Getrag transmission from a front wheel drive GM car in your part of the world may be very difficult.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Moar, I will dig the archive out. The unit I "rebuilt" is sitting with the $300 kit in it, but you would be better off with a good salvage unit. You need a free agent here so you would only stand acquisition and shipping costs. Your neighborhood pic suggests you cannot tolerate a donor car on the street. Those prices are USA Mercedes prices, yikes. Stand by.
You are right, unfortunately a donor car is not an option in my case. I have rented a small garage which also includes a well-sized drive way. On the drive way I have already parked my Jag and my Miata or Fiero and either the Miata or the Fiero is in the garage. But for an additional car the drive way will became too small (and also my neighborhood will get more and more angry with my cars).
Besides that, there is only one single 5-speed Fiero for sale here in Austria at the moment! But this one is not a donor car, because it costs € 4250.-
I know that the Getrag 282 has been used in a quite a lot of other cars as follows:
But I assume at minimum 90% of them have an automatic transmission and not a 5-speed manual which I´m searching! Therefore, finding a MG282 salvage unit here in Austria or Germany is a very difficult task!
Maybe I should also look for alternative trannys, like HM282 / NVG-T550 / F23 / F40?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-20-2015).]
1. Before considering rebuilding a Getrag obtain the 88 Fiero manual containing Muncie 282 sections 7B3 and 7B3A. Read latter carefully. If any desire still remains to rebuild read on. 2. There is a 10 page writeup which details my adventure. (we know it did not end well, but the writeup will again expose shortcomings of GM manual.) 3. The actual cost for parts is more than I stated. About $650 including the rebuild salvage unit, frt, rebuild kit and additional parts I wanted. 4. Surprisingly the basic kit is still available in Portland OR (# BK 234 WS) for $ 273. This includes brass synchros, bearings and seals, and is $100 less than I paid in 2003 thru a retail store (don't ask). 5. A delta list is available of parts I bought beyond the kit. 6. Hopefully pics of the press and adapters below.
If you want a salvage unit I found over 40 units today online in the US ranging in price from TBD, and $100-$1000. The source is car-part.com (aka used-auto-parts.net). This is the source of my salvage unit and my current 89 Beretta unit. I have had several dealings on Fiero and Nissan with ok results. The site lets you search by year/model and with other filters. The 40 units of ref resulted from asking for 89 Beretta , both electronic and mechanical speedo drive gears. You see the salvage yard by state, price, tel no , and sometimes quality comments. As always with risk. Call and talk to the yard guys. Now if you could just get the stuff over there.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 10-20-2015).]
Just a thought- aren't the same basic Getrags used in some Saabs? He would stand a much better chance of finding one of them over in Austria...I know it's FF, so he may need a kit from Rodney....I think Rodney makes the FF to MR Getrag kit...? Of course, if he's dead set on absolutely stock, then this is all moot....
Reading Rodney comments... If you have a good relation with your rebuild shop you should convince them to take a torque turn-over reading on a fresh rebuild Getrag, preferably several so a range could be established. You could make a spline adaptor with a socket female on one end. It would only take a minute to get the reading. The shim select tooling and shims shown in the GM manual for the diff bearings are intimidating and out of reach. I think I only disassembled and assembled because the only shims I remember fussing with was the back plate. I understand your statement on "silvery lubricant " at first drain. I have seen it on other cars. It is unfortunate that so little has been written on manual transmission rebuild (at least when I searched in 2003). The knowledge is out there. Somebody (Rodney) better sit down with these mechanics like musicians did with the delta blues guitar guys before this knowledge is lost forever (electric, self driving cars etc). Put out the book in paperback or floppy.
Edit: I did visit the best trans shop I could find in Medford OR when I took the unit apart (a pig stye). They did not have a clue except the main man did predict worn synchros which I verified when apart. Otherwise the unit was really in good shape, mileage unknown.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 10-21-2015).]
I highly recommend getting a shim select tool if you can find one, I have one my self and found taking 3 trans apart not one was shimmed right.
If I decide to rebuilt the MG282 I also think I´ll buy this shim selector kit. I think it is affordable when I buy an old used kit on ebay (about $50-65). With this kit I can set the proper preload acc. to the Muncie manual (preload with 0.100 mm oversized shim). There might be also some transmission specialists out there which can select the proper shim just by turning the shaft and feeling the friction torque, but if I can find a real specialist or not is not sure. And the sufficient axial preload is very important for helix gears in view of NVH and bearing life.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-21-2015).]
Are you referring to the F35 tranny which can be found in the Saab 9-3? I guess for this swap an engine adapter plate would be required, or does the F35 come with the "right" bellhousing? Also the F40 is not a preferred option for me, because an extremely expensive kit is required for a Fiero F40 swap
I wanna find a tranny with the right V6 GM 60° bellhousing pattern, cause this saves a lot of time, money and trouble. Besides that, an engine adapter plate may look suspicious for some Austrian cops (e.g. engine swap)!
My plan is to swap the 3.4PR engine (shortblock) into my Fiero GT at the same time I´m rebuilding the tranny. (in the end engine/transmission should look more or less unmodified/stock)
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-21-2015).]
Thank you for the link (Car-Part.com) for finding used car parts in US - very useful for me!
Regarding the Pontiac 88 Fiero repair manual I only have the Chilton manual and the Pontiac Parts and Illustration catalog. If you find some time can you please scan in the "Muncie 282 7B3/7B3A" sections and upload the scanned document here? Of course if you (or someone else here) need help one day finding out OEM numbers I´ll assist you with the Pontiac Parts and Illustration catalog.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-21-2015).]
Moar, Further I saw even more salvage units by revisiting the site and asking for a different GM model. Also I note a couple references to "reman, "however I would be very leery of the term. I think that could mean almost anything (marketing). I did see a couple units with alleged 70K miles and one @1 K miles. Also one with a broken slave bolt hole. As you know minor ( and even major) aluminum repair is routine with heli-arc. My 2003 notes also referenced a rebuilder who wanted $2300 . Though high , that is probably a reasonable price for a true professional rebuild. I had 100 hours in at my learning rate. If a pro could manage it in 25 hours (labor? $40?) and add all parts that $2000 level could be easily reached. I can not scan just now. PM me your mailing address.
BTW, I´m currently thinking about the "real world" torque capacity of the Getrag-282.
If the Getrag-282 tranny is generally a "weak" transmission then I would prefer a transmission swap (e.g. F23) instead of rebuilding my MG-282 tranny.
Sooner or later I´ll also carry out the engine swap (cammed 3.4PR) and I´m thinking about using a nitrous kit for some additional power (if I can get a N2O kit trough customs and if I can find a cheap source of N2O supply in Austria).
Do you think the MG-282 withstands the higher torque loads (3.4L + N2O)?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-28-2015).]
I would hold off on putting in a different transmission until you're ready to do your engine swap, etc. Swap plans frequently change in the planning stages and what you decide to go with may require changes to the transmission again.
The 282 is plenty strong enough for a cammed 3.4PR, even with occasional Nitrous use. Shock loads are what kills the transmission fastest and you're not doing to be doing clutch dumps with the Nitrous activated. (I hope!)
Do you intend to drag race the car on a track with slicks? Then the strength of the 282 may be in question even with a 3.4. Anything will break if you beat on it hard enough. Decide what your final configuration will be and intended use and you'll have a better idea of a tranny swap makes sense. Or if you have the funds and just want to do it - go for it. Nothing wrong with that either.
- First I need to rebuild the engine and make it ready for the swap. Currently my 3.4PR looks like **** (comes from a Firebird donor car with engine fire) - Then I´ll remove the cradle with the stock engine on it. - Degreasing, derusting and re-painting the cradle and suspension parts - Rebuilding the MG-282 tranny (or if I can find a F23 I may chose this as alternative) - Finally, putting all back together…
Of course, I´ll not misuse my car and make any clutch dumps with Nitrous!
I will also not participate in drag races. Alas drag races are not common in Austria, I even don´t know where drag races take place here.
Regarding tires, I´m currently using 255/35 tires on 18x10.5 rims in the rear. In future I may upgrade to max. 265 mm tire width (maybe I can find well-priced street legal semi-slicks). My current tires are normal non-slick tires, because slick tires are strictly prohibited in Austria! However, even the 255 tires have quite a lot of grip which means increased load for the transmission. Smaller tires may be safe for the transmission, but I don´t wanna get too much wheel spin after the engine swap.
Under these conditions you think this shouldn´t be a big problem for the Getrag MG-282? If I decide to rebuild the stock tranny, then I´ll also install these add-on needle bearings in order to support the diff bearings.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 10-29-2015).]
The 282 will be fine. You should find new output (diff) bearings, which are rare, but sometimes available in a rebuild kit. I don't think you will need the extra needle bearings.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 10-29-2015).]
I´m referring to the red marked bearing on the right-hand side in above schematic drawing. On this side the pinion gear meshes with the diff gear (last gear mesh), therefore this bearing is under very high loads.
The notes say the red outline , output bearing front , is LFS 70922 (kit) , plus I wrote down FAG 563271 A German, and GM 8681381. That bearing is a blind one. The cup was removed with 275F for 25 minutes in the kitchen oven. It drops out. Regarding wear. Besides the usual problems (gall, chip, brinell etc) it is a judgement call. I did not find any obvious defects on any bearings in the two units I looked at.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 10-31-2015).]
With your alternate part number #563271 A (for L&S 70922 / GM 8681381) I have already found out where I can get one: http://cobratransmission.co...-bearing-551158421-1 Price for OP shaft bearing: $32.99
I have also found cheap and good alterative diff. bearings – SKF BR11 or SKF BR91 (GM 9437733 /26046759)!
In case I need to replace the input shaft bearing the rebuild kit #BK234 might be a better choice. But at the moment I can´t say if the input shaft sleeve or bearing is in good condition. In your case also the input shaft bearing and sleeve was OK?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-09-2015).]
I did not replace the sleeve, but I tried with no source as confirmed in this forum. The kit is a good buy. I used everything in it, but , as stated, I did not see anything inside the rebuild unit that was worn except the synchros. And the unit was from an unknown Fiero, so who knows how it was treated. BTW these sychros (5) are typically $50 , the kit $250 here. The best GM source I found 11 years back was "newgmparts.com," 800-858-1977, Mass USA. Fast, accurate (for ref their quote for 5 sychros: $315).
Edit: I consider whether there is enough interest here for me to post every PN I found back then? The way we're going it is happening slowly.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 11-01-2015).]
I think I´ll buy the rebuild kit #BK234(WS), because I have already found a very good offer on eBay (only $90)! Obviously diff. bearings are not included in this kit, therefore I need to buy them separately (2x SKF BR11).
You have already posted most important part numbers here (for a Getrag bearing rebuild). These part numbers may be also helpful for other PFF members with a manual 5-sp. Fiero.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-02-2015).]
Unless I'm wrong that BK234 kit from Auto Zone has been out of stock for like 10 years now?
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
