I believe the kit is not normally stocked at retail, but available on special order. Avoid markup and buy direct (above). Here are the parts contained in the kit 12 years ago:
With the input bearing missing, the big retailers can no longer sell the 'kit'.....so it makes sense that the rest of the parts show up on E-bay. And most of the input bearings will be missing....
The kits are apparently built up by the suppliers as ordered. The input bearing may be available in NOS. Finally put an adapter on my rebuilt Getrag and checked the drag on the turning spline shaft. Only 1st would register on an inch-pound beam torque wrench- 25 inch pounds. The other gears would not register at all. This is less than I remember years back. Don't know if those readings are normal. Maybe sitting for 10 years resulted in handshakes (cold flow) or I expected too much. Maybe it is usable.
Originally posted by hobbywrench: The input bearing may be available in NOS. .
I have not seen a NOS Getrag input bearing for many, many years now. Some have looked far and wide for one and could not find one. It is possible there might be a few out there but it is a very rare piece these days.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Just out of curiosity (and I am sure I am not the first) could the input shaft bearing be cross referenced with another one identical ?
jon
That search has been ongoing for about 10 years now, and because nothing was found, Rodney designed and sells a replacement assembly. It appears that the OP does not need it, but in most Getrag rebuilds, the input bearing is bad.
I should add the best source I found did say when he "builds" a kit he personally inspects for Chinese bearings which apparently can find their way into these kits. I asked him if any Chinese bearings are acceptable, and when he thought some Chinese stuff would improve like Japanese did. No real answer. So I guess we will have to use US ingenuity . The Cubans have kept 1950's cars running, after all.....
I looked for a drawing of the input bearing. SKF has a 453 pp index, but skips over that bearing. We need to create a drawing for quote, or find something close that can be adopted.
Thanks gall - yes I have seen Rodney's replacement for the input shaft which is a clever piece of kit.
ok so maybe not to try and sound naïve or stupid here so maybe not to cross reference with another manufacturer but maybe getrag produced another gearbox with that same input shaft bearing or has anyone looked at the new mini with a 282 getrag in ??
ok so maybe not to try and sound naïve or stupid here so maybe not to cross reference with another manufacturer but maybe getrag produced another gearbox with that same input shaft bearing or has anyone looked at the new mini with a 282 getrag in ??
Which Mini Cooper model you mean exactly? I thought the 5-sp Mini uses the GS5-65BH transmission? Are there also newer models with a Getrag 282?
when I last posted about the input shaft bearing being used in another getrag I am thinking in terms of the manufacturers like for example a chevy Camaro uses the same wing mirrors as those on a fiero and so on
Yes, I know what you mean with part cross referencing. Unfortunately nobody has found out which alternative bearing could be used for the input shaft bearing (GM 14082181) instead.
But look at the following pictures, the front input shaft bearing/seal is a special bearing:
Therefore, it is so difficult to find an alternative for GM 14082181 bearing. Of course, the same input bearing is also used in many other cars (see page 1, post 19). However, if you search a tranny rebuild kit for example for a Chevy Beretta, then you will have the same problem and won´t find this input shaft bearing (except NOS).
I think also Rodney has already spend a lot of time for input shaft bearing research. He hasn´t found a "plug and play" input bearing as alternative for GM 14082181, therefore he has made this special input shaft bearing kit where a bearing from later internal slave Getrags is used: http://rodneydickman.com/ca....php?products_id=305
This is how the 2002-2004 Mini Cooper input shaft bearing looks (5-sp GS5-65BH): http://new.minimania.com/pa...ini-Cooper-02-04-R50 Alas the Getrag MG-282 input shaft bearing looks completely different.
Hope my input bearing/seal/sleeve is in a acceptable condition. I don´t want to replace it - this will save me a lot of money. (rebuild kits without input shaft bearing are very cheap!)
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-08-2015).]
With the Fiero Factory tranny removal procedure NO engine or cradle removal is required! It is a detailed description, but mainly related to 84 - 87 Fieros.
If this removal method is also not much more difficult on a ´88 Fiero, I may rethink may plans about engine rebuild / swap for this winter. Alternatively I can remove the tranny as described by Fiero Factory, change the bearings and bolt it back on my 2.8L engine. Then my car will run again after winter vacation!
The planned 3.4PR rebuild / engine swap can also wait for next year(s). My 2.8L engine is a low mileage engine (47.000 miles only) and should run a few thousand miles longer before disposal.
Has someone tried this tranny removal method on a ´88 Fiero?
With the Fiero Factory tranny removal procedure NO engine or cradle removal is required!
Has someone tried this tranny removal method on a ´88 Fiero?
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to avoid with that particular method of tranny removal, but when I pulled the tranny from my '88 Formula, I left the front of the cradle attached and pivoted the cradle down at the back. Worked out fine. From what I understand, this cradle "pivoting" method of tranny removal is pretty common.
Initially I thought it is a must to remove the cradle from the car completely in order to remove the tranny. I have read this somewhere in another thread.
I have never removed a tranny of a Fiero, therefore I was unaware of this removal method. Removing the tranny through the wheel well seems to be less work than removing the cradle completely.
It's been a while, but I removed the cradle with the engine suspended across the strut towers. The removal provided opportunity to paint the cradle.
BTW it is clear now that once the mystery of "the kit" is broken as it has been here, who needs someone to provide a "kit?" In fact to me there were other wear items I bought that should be in a "kit" anyway. Build your own.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 11-10-2015).]
i just removed the transmission on an 87 without dropping the cradle at all or even pivoting it on the rear connectors. The procedure is basically the same as used by the Fiero Factory and I do not see any real reason why it should not work for an 88. I have some pictures if it would be helpful. BTW, the vehicle was on a hoist and that was a lot easier than trying this on jack stands IMHO.
you are sure, transmission removal is also possible without pivoting or dropping the cradle? Please send us some pictures or post a link.
The pivoting method definitely also works on ´88 Fieros (see Patrick´s post). Basically I think there is not much difference betw. ´88 and pre-88 cradle mounting points (just w/o these stupid rubber bushings).
I´ll also remove all rear suspension components, because I want to de-rust and repaint these parts anyway.
I don't recall the cradle removal being that difficult. I did not have a hoist.
Still wondering about the 24 inch pound drag in 1st only measured with a torque wrench . Poking around in the 85 factory manual I saw a value for the other 5 speed. The wording is vague, but "less than 7 inch pounds." It does not indicate if the value is measured in neutral, but is silent about a particular gear. If that is typical then my rebuild is OK, but still wondering why the extra drag in 1 st only? Teeth engagement?
You have measured these values on the input shaft, right? 24 inch-pounds are approx. 3 Nm. 7 inch- pounds are less than 1 Nm - I don´t think that this is a realistic value. Furthermore, this 7 inch- pound reference value is useless unless we don´t know for which gear this specific value applies. It would be interesting to compare drag measurements for all gears (1,2,3,4,5).
BTW, rebuilding a spur gear transmission shouldn´t have any influence on gear meshing / teeth engagement. There are no bevel gears (except diff side and spider gears), therefore backlash cannot be adjusted. So I´m thinking that your "high" drag has something to do with bearing friction torque caused by high axial preloads or whatever.
i just removed the transmission on an 87 without dropping the cradle at all or even pivoting it on the rear connectors.
???
Just to clarify one thing, the cradle pivots on the front mounts in order to lower the back of the cradle. Without lowering the cradle at all, I don't see how it's possible for the tranny to come out of there... unless everything is being pulled out the top.
Well, others with the 85 manual could read the 7 inch pound value for the Isuzu shaft rotation and interpret it for me. Since it is not specific to a gear it appears to me a neutral reading. Maybe I over reacted. The synchro action in this rebuild is very good shifting the "stub" by hand. I wonder if some of the interference fit press-on's (gears) might have just a slight "**** " which would relax once hot and run a while. The assembly involves a lot of pushing sharp edged gears onto somewhat softer ( I think) shafts. The Getrag manual warns to collect any metal slivers pared off. You guys really should try a rebuild.
Edit : Looks like the cloud censor did not like my word which is synonymous with the rooster.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 11-14-2015).]
Can someone tell me if the axle stabilizer bearing # 75125LRB fits both sides? Most suppliers are stating that # 75125LRB is for passenger side only. Is there a reason for this or is this just wrong information?
Edit to add: Where I can get these stabilizer bearing for a reasonable price?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-24-2015).]
Has someone tried these bushing style stabilizer bearings?
I think the seal is more reliable as the seal used for the needle bearing type axle stabilizers (more flexible OEM design). This is one advantage, but what about the bushing itself, is it reliable too?
Late but finally I have removed the trans and split the case of my Getrag transmissions. Preparation work:
Car lifted and supported on wooden blocks:
Removing parts like intake duct hose, exhaust pipes, suspension components etc.
Simple custom construction for lifting and dropping the engine/transmission:
In the next step I loosened nuts and bolts (trans mounts, bellhousing to engine, etc.) Transmission removal procedure:
First I lifted the engine/trans a few centimeters in order to remove the transmission/engine mounts and brackets:
This is the front trans mount which is completely fu**ed up:
Removing rear trans mount and bracket:
Cradle supported on lifting jacks with rear cradle bolts removed:
Cradle pivoted on the rear down to the floor:
After this I have also removed the front bolts for removing the subframe completely (I’ll sandblast and repaint it later):
Lowered engine/trans and supported on wooden blocks for additional safety:
Finally I removed the transmission from the engine:
After this I disassembled the Getrag salvage unit which I have gotten from Vienna (out of a ´86 Fiero GT with 42.000 miles only). I wanted to have a lock on the transmission internals to check if everything is in good shape. Furthermore, I was also interested in the LSD (acc. to the seller someone has replaced the stock diff with a LSD )! Splitting the case of the salvage unit:
Removing the detent cover and detent holder:
Don´t forget this pin, otherwise you may lose it and then you are fu**ed up!
Remove bushing:
Removing shift shaft cover and spring (optional, not necessary to remove spring):
Split case - salvage unit with limited-slip differential:
Does someone know which LSD this is?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 03-22-2016).]
Removing axle shaft seals (using special tool “1.6L Miata front caliper piston”):
I have forgotten to take pictures of the diff bearing race removal. I have used a suitable drill chuck and a heavy lead hammer for this.
I´ve found some corrosion on input shaft bearing and fork lever of the ´86 unit, therefore I´ll use the bell housing of the ´88 transmission. Input bearing and fork lever of my ´88 trans don´t show any corrosion (therefore I´ll replace the output shaft bearing race in the ´88 bell housing later)!
CobraTrans rebuild kit has arrived ($56 only):
And axle stabilizer bearings/seals (bushing type): I have ordered the left one with the OEM seal in it. What I have gotten are two different ones! :
Then I have checked the rear input and output shaft bearings: Fortunately in good condition without any play.
Then I have found a strange modification to the oil supply for the output shaft bearing: Obviously this should improve the oil flow into the output shaft bore.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 03-03-2016).]
Metal particles found under the shift shaft cover:
Bellhousing:
Trans case:
More metal particles found on magnet:
Worn diff bearing (bellhousing side):
The worn diff bearing caused an axial misalignment of the differential assembly. Due to this misalignment the tooth ends of the differential gear grinded on the pinion gear. I guess this was the reason why my car´s wheels rotated even in neutral with running engine!
The root cause of all this sh*t was the stupid leaking flip up dip stick and leaking axle shaft seals.
Oil leaks in conjunction with a stupid previous owner have destroyed the differential bearings. Basically oil leaks are not dangerous as long as you refill the oil (so you have always fresh oil)
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 03-03-2016).]
As both transmission were split I took the opportunity to compare the ´86 with the ´88 Getrag transmissions. Following pictures show some minor design changes "improvements" for the ´88 Getrag. You will see why I´ve written "improvements" under double quotes...
Oil splash shied missing in ´88 model:
Slightly different reverse idler gear shaft bushing (stiffer and easier designed bushing for ´88 model):
Simplified gear design and missing oilways in ´88 model:
I think the main aim for these design changes was to save some manufacturing costs for future MG-282 transmissions. In my point of view also the flip up tip stick was no improvement (prone to leak)!
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 03-03-2016).]
Replacing important bearings in the ´86 salvage unit and ´88 bell housing*:
*) As already mentioned above I´ll use the ´88 bell housing due to corrosion on the ´86 unit. Hope that this was not a bad idea...
Removing worn bearing race (output shaft) of the ´88 bell housing:
This might not be the professional way to remove the output shaft race, but this method woks for every DIY-sefer!
Required “special tools“: - small drill - screw driver
Due to the mixed bellhousings it is absolutely necessary to select new shims for proper differential bearing preload. (However, preload should also be checked if you only replace bearings) This step is the most important one, because diff bearing preload is directly related to bearing lifetime! Too less preload will kill your bearings whereas too much will overheat them and may cause bearing seizure.
Acc. to the Getrag manual shims are not selected with the toque-set method (torque-set method usually used for bevel gear axles/differentials on RWD cars with engine in front).
For the Getrag the “Set-Right” method is applied. For this you will need shim selector kit Kent-Moore J26935.
This special tool will help you to find out the shim size for ZERO axial clearance. Acc. to the manual you should select a shim which is two sizes larger than the ZERO lash shim. (= 0.10 mm oversize) Determining zero lash shim:
First press in the new differential bearing race (on trans case side only!) and put the differential with new bearing cones in place. On the other side of the differential put the diff bearing race above the cone and then bolt the transmission together with the shim selector between trans case and bellhousing.
The differential spacer (black pipe) is preloaded with an internal spring which will adjust automatically to fit your transmission.
Now you can check which shim fits in the resulting gap: Finally, you can choose an appropriate shim form your shim kit (2 sizes larger).
In my case I have chosen a shim which is 3 sizes (0.15 mm) larger than the ZERO lash shim. The reason for this is that I may have more run-in as usual due to the mixing of bearing cones and races. (TIMKEN cones with 15000 km mixed with new KOYO races)
Pressing in new bearing races: Do NOT forget the differential bearing shim before pressing in differentail races!!! After this make sure that the shim sits tight (play indicates that you have to press in the race further).
I know mixing cones and races is not recommended and I wouldn´t have done it if I would live in USA. My final intention was to rebuild both transmission but I have only gotten differential bearings (new KOYO races and cones) for one transmission rebuild. Due to the low mileage of the LSD differential with quite new TIMKEN cones on it (about 15.000 km) I decided to let them in place (these stupid cones cannot be removed without damaging them). However, I wanted to get at least new diff bearing races and therefore I have installed new KOYO races. The quite new TIMKEN differential race I swapped from the ´86 trans case into the ´88 trans case whereas I will use the ´86 bellhousing incl. the other TIMKEN race for assembling the ´88 unit. I will also install new KOYO cones on the ´88 stock differential assembly. (maybe I will sell the ´88 unit or keep it as spare trans).
This was the only possibility to get 2 working transmissions from one rebuild kit.
Previously drilled holes for output/main shaft bearing race removal closed with JB weld:
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 03-22-2016).]
Moar, Thanks for the good pictures. Some of the casting "spider webs" look like cracks (I guess). Please tell us if (how ) you determined the carrier bearing shim select size. Especially since we have no source for the select shims except for NOS or new custom ground shims.
I believe that many mechanics ruin the diff output shaft seals when removing or installing the axles. The seals are fragile with little circular springs riding inside the seals. It is too easy to either drop the heavy axle onto the seal when removing ( and then reusing it) or to gouge or drop the axle tip when installing. Some makes (Nissan) specify a tool which protects the seal when installing the axles. I bought a new 88 Fiero which dripped from both seals right from the factory. Working alone (me) poses a special risk due to the weight of the axles. I have used a sling to support the inboard end of the axle, but it is always risky.
ON reread I see you have carefully just told us how to select the shim, My oversight. You have done lots of good research.
[This message has been edited by hobbywrench (edited 01-19-2016).]
This might not be the professional way to remove the output shaft race, but this method woks for every DIY-sefer!
One popular way is to weld around the ID of the race and when it cools it shrinks slightly allowing it to be pried out.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
when I last posted about the input shaft bearing being used in another getrag I am thinking in terms of the manufacturers like for example a chevy Camaro uses the same wing mirrors as those on a fiero and so on
jon
Getrag is a company in Germany that designs power transmission products. There are many variations of "Getrag" transmissions out there. Because of the Getrag transmission information I have on the web for the 282 Getrag I get many many emails and calls from owners of other cars and trucks. I tell them the same thing. Getrag is a company in Germany that designs power transmission products. The only thing the 282 Getrag and your Getrag have in common is the name. Nothing else interchanges.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
sardonyx, Good tip and I will follow up, but what is IIRC? And give me some specifics like what year and model . Can the shim be seen on a Dodge diff drawing?
)! 
