One of my first dreams as a kid was to build my own car. Back then it was the Lambourghini Countach, Ferrari 308, BB512, BMW M1, etc. I would make clay models 2 ft or so in size, fiberglass them up and move on to another. Well in a little over a year I turn 50 and still haven't made my own sports car. Well, that's about to change. The kids are getting married off and my better half is "all in" for a another "project". After months of dithering about what to build and how to do it I have settled (I think) on modifying a Fiero. While I like the idea of building from a kit something that looks like what I dreamed about as a kid I think I will have a hard time with the "kit" comments. I guess I am that type of person. So I have started to do some photo chopping and feel its about time to bring my ideas here and hopefully have a wealth of knowledge guide me through the process.
I am looking for something different. Something no one else has built before. I found a concept car I thought had some promise to build upon: a Vector prototype called the Tribun. After pulling together some of its components this is what I have to start with. I have kept the wheel base the same and given it a bit of a chop top. I still have front and rear views to do but I would like some practical comments if possible. (At this point I will call it the Fribun (a Fiero Tribun).
Welcome to the madness. I look forward to seeing what you come up with as I have shared your dream. That's what led me to PFF some 11 years ago. Still working on that dream, though...
I think you've got a great start, vision and a great little chassis.
Have you seen, first hand, some of the non-extended wheelbase Lambo kits on Fieros? I ask because I have and they look horrible. At the same time, I have seen some of the Lambo kits on extended wheelbase cars, they look great. IMO this drawing looks good, but it would look 10X better if you planned on a 6-8" extention and a chop top. Again, just my $.02 cents.
lol I have a Fiero, a dream, and GIMP2.0. Actually, it's 95% there mechanically. Then the body needs to be aquired.
back on topic ...
Bob
Yes, my apologies to original poster. Really dig the design of the Fribun too. Just think it needs a spoiler but there aren't very many cars that come w/ spoilers that I can get w/ once spoiler is deleted. Also, like another poster said, really tough to get past how good those body kits look on the stretched frame vs. original Fiero length chassis.
[This message has been edited by akademikjeanius (edited 12-17-2013).]
Looks good, there is a few people in Ontario that have built kit cars or even complete custom one offs that might be able to give some pointers or answer a few questions to help you along. From what I see I would have to say very nice and can't wait to see it both in progress and finished on the road. Dan
------------------
DARN Cars now open with Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation. Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars. Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.
I think the concept looks great! Taking on a project of this complexity deserves kudos. First, very few people that have a dream and can translate it onto paper as you've already done. Even fewer can turn the concept into an actual 3D car, but most of the time this last step only requires courage (OK well, time, money, space, and patience are also important too ) Everything else can be learned though, and there are lots of people here that will give freely of their knowledge and opinion, often you won't even have to ask!
But since you did ask for comments, here are my observations based on my personal opinion (whatever that's worth) intended solely as constructive criticism:
It's tempting when designing a car on paper to use a host of visual tricks to make the car look sportier than is actually achievable in real life. I think if you want a better idea what your car will look like once you're finished you may want to redraw it (if even just for yourself) with more achievable dimensions in these areas:
a. no less than 4" ground clearance unless your roads are in great shape and there are no speed bumps at your shopping malls. Your current drawing looks closer to 2"-3" clearance to me;
b. a greater ramp angle for the front chin spoiler unless your driveway, and any other driveway or maintenance ramp you intend to use is not sloped. Those chin spoilers take a beating and once hit, can cause cracks in the fiberglass that extend into areas like at the apex of the fender;
c. a fender to tire vertical clearance no less than about 1.5" especially if you want the outside edge of the tire to be near the outside edge of the fender. The less vertical clearance you have, the more your tire will have to be offset towards the inside to avoid interference with the fender at full jounce. The top of the tire does tip in with camber as the wheel rises but not by very much;
d. Your current drawing looks as though it has 20" diameter wheels or larger. Unless you plan to change wheel hubs to get a different bolt pattern, you should check to see what the maximum diameter wheel is actually available in the stock 5 x 100 mm bolt pattern. I don't believe there are very many designs that are currently available in anything much larger than 18" or 19" unless you expect to pay for a three piece wheel. In that case there are still a very limited number of designs to choose from with the correct offsets, and the price jumps to anywhere between $800 to $1500 a wheel.
e. the area where the hood meets the front fender along its length and especially at the nose looks a little incongruous to me. The sudden change from the fluid, compound curves in the fender are met abruptly by what looks to be vertical walls where it transitions to the hood and nose. It may look awkward in real life; and
f. you may find that with the shape of the body near the front edge of the door, that only vertically opening scissor doors will work. You may not have the correct contours for an outwardly swinging door without interference between the door, the fender, and the mirrors.
Again, please take my suggestions as kind advice only.
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. Post No. 2. No need to be gentle any more
I appreciate the comments on the design of the Fribun. Please keep them coming - and if you have a few moments to photo shop all the better. I have my own ideas about what looks sweet but I would like to incorporate others ideas too if I can be convinced. Rob mentioned the need to give it a stretch - and that got me to thinking. There must be some standard set of things that make a car look "exotic". 1) It must be low. 2) It should be wide. 3) It has to be greater than a certain size (I personally can`t see how a car as small as a miata could look exotic) This may be where a "stretch" would be seen as a factor. Perhaps its the ratio of wheel size to wheel base? 4) Mid-engine (I spent weeks looking at modifying a corvette but it never felt right) 5) Perhaps spoilers, scoops, features that scream "I`m different"
Rob, what do you see the purpose is for the stretch on my design? I have never seen an unstretched Lambo kit up close, but there are dangers of making a kit look like another well known car if you cannot capture the essence. Then it will just look wrong. You see that more often than not with replicas I think.
I actually like to see you keep it short. I always thought he reason they are long is to fit wild engines or to make them look more like the italian cars. Shorter to me says lighter and tighter
It's tempting when designing a car on paper to use a host of visual tricks to make the car look sportier than is actually achievable in real life. I think if you want a better idea what your car will look like once you're finished you may want to redraw it (if even just for yourself) with more achievable dimensions in these areas:
I agree great advice. I wanted to say adjustable air ride suspension fill fix a few of those things.
It's tempting when designing a car on paper to use a host of visual tricks to make the car look sportier than is actually achievable in real life. I think if you want a better idea what your car will look like once you're finished you may want to redraw it (if even just for yourself) with more achievable dimensions in these areas:
a. no less than 4" ground clearance
Raised the bottom skirt a few more inches
quote
b. a greater ramp angle for the front chin spoiler
Raise it a few inches and ramped it up by 8 degrees (Don`t know if this is enough though)
quote
c. a fender to tire vertical clearance no less than about 1.5" d. I don't believe there are very many designs that are currently available in anything much larger than 18" or 19" unless you expect to pay
Made the tires smaller. I suspect this will fix c, and d.
quote
e. the area where the hood meets the front fender along its length and especially at the nose looks a little incongruous to me. The sudden change from the fluid, compound curves in the fender are met abruptly by what looks to be vertical walls where it transitions to the hood and nose. It may look awkward in real life;
Yeah - not exactly sure what I am looking for here. I was thinking a bit about a hammer head shark. The old Countach years ago had a modded front end that was similar. I am open to suggestions.
quote
f. you may find that with the shape of the body near the front edge of the door, that only vertically opening scissor doors will work. You may not have the correct contours for an outwardly swinging door without interference between the door, the fender, and the mirrors.
I was thinking Lambo doors anyway - but this is a definite concern. I am not sure how to mitigate it until I actually start doing the work though.
Awesome advice. thanks
[This message has been edited by CMacD (edited 12-17-2013).]
I had a Firebird with Lambo doors and they were problematic, however, if done well, your design looks like a suitable Lambo door application. You don't want to cheap out on the hinges though
The car looks like you want it to be a screamer. So to put some meaningful horsepower in it, I recommend the 3800 sc with the smaller pulley. If you care to turbo it I can tell you that you can expect 450+ hp but it is an ambitious engine application.
I have the 4.9 myself, carb'd, and it sounds and runs great, but the v8 is a rumbly engine, not a screamer. The 4.9 is the cheapest, but the sbc is the more powerful option on the v8's.
I would definitely do something in the engine bay on your project regardless.
If you are going all out, you want the Corvette brake conversion. I have the GrandAm/Seville conversion and it works well, but, with big wheels the big brakes will look more balanced and will outperform the GA or LeBaron conversions.
I don't think you'll have to stretch the chassis. Yes it looks exotic, but, in terms of performance, the Fiero geometry is pretty darn good, and I wouldn't mess with it.
You might also consider the 3rd generation Firebird dash conversion. That would really suit your design
I put air ride suspension on my snowmobile two years ago. Its awesome
I have adjustable air shocks on the front of one of my Meras and it certainly helps when trying to get over speed bumps and driveway exits. Note that this is a lowered car and I may have gone a bit to far with the initial process but it looks good and drives well on the road. There are coil overs on the rear that give me some height adjustment there.
Nelson
[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 12-17-2013).]
The car looks like you want it to be a screamer. So to put some meaningful horsepower in it...
If you are going all out, you want the Corvette brake conversion.
I agree, actually your best bet may be make it run and perform how you want, then plan / do the body after. If your budget ran out youd still have a fast fun car.
Looks like a really neat concept. That looks like an 88 GT in the picture judging by the front wheel gap and the paint. If that is the car you are planning on using I seriously hope you reconsider and get yourself an earlier Fiero in not as nice shape. I would hate to see another 88 go under the knife like that. Maybe use an 84? There normally a few rough Fiero's on kijiji here in Ontario that could use a cosmetic overhaul. Mind you this is just my opinion. Cool design none the less. Good luck with it. I will keep my eye on this thread.
Looks like a really neat concept. That looks like an 88 GT in the picture judging by the front wheel gap and the paint. If that is the car you are planning on using I seriously hope you reconsider and get yourself an earlier Fiero in not as nice shape. I would hate to see another 88 go under the knife like that. Maybe use an 84? There normally a few rough Fiero's on kijiji here in Ontario that could use a cosmetic overhaul. Mind you this is just my opinion. Cool design none the less. Good luck with it. I will keep my eye on this thread.
You bring up an interesting point Odin: Is there a year or configuration of Fiero that would best suit this build? Are some years easier to work with than others?
You bring up an interesting point Odin: Is there a year or configuration of Fiero that would best suit this build? Are some years easier to work with than others?
88 is the best, he's saying he likes to see them stay stock, unaltered.
Originally posted by Neils88: I prefer a slightly shorter front end, with more defined features in the rear. Definitely a fan of rear spoilers too.
I like your ideas Neil. Kinda makes it look more like a rally car I think. I personally like the longer look as a whole though. For whatever reason the longer makes it appear more exotic to me.
Originally posted by Boostdreamer: Maybe make the nose somewhere between the above photoshop pics? Neither one is quite right. I would also extend the trunk just a bit. Jonathan
I like the idea of extending the back end a bit more too. I was playing as you were typing
That side mirror design looks like it would be problematic if you want to use vertical doors. On a Fiero, the doors have to swing out a little, and then they can be lifted up. With the mirrors attaching to the front fender like you have, rather than attaching to the doors, you may have an interference problem.
OK, that looks better, if not a stretch, then this bit added to the ass end looks better. I'm not a fan of the raised door sides, I get it, and I understand the design, but i'm not a fan of it.
I like the idea of extending the back end a bit more too. I was playing as you were typing
clark
Much better extended in the back end! What are your thoughts for the exhaust and the rear lights?...this can dramatically change the look. Exhaust is easy to customize, but you'll want to find a vehicle with stock rear lights that have the right look.
...still like to see it with a rear spoiler (fixed or actively raising)
Originally posted by dobey: That side mirror design looks like it would be problematic if you want to use vertical doors. On a Fiero, the doors have to swing out a little, and then they can be lifted up. With the mirrors attaching to the front fender like you have, rather than attaching to the doors, you may have an interference problem.
Agreed. I have removed the mirror for now and cleaned up the lines toward the front end. I also added a gentle bit of "hip" action to the top of the front wheel wells by dropping the side window and rounding the lines to the hood (Ferrari 308-esk) I think. I was also searching for ways to lengthen the look between the wheels and found that by extending the lower louver just a few more inches forward in combination with the previous change really gives it that effect. It doesn't look so stubby in there anymore. Now on to the front end. I think everybody agrees that it just doesn't cut it.
Originally posted by Neils88: Much better extended in the back end! What are your thoughts for the exhaust and the rear lights?...this can dramatically change the look. Exhaust is easy to customize, but you'll want to find a vehicle with stock rear lights that have the right look.
Possibly something along the lines of a Ferrari 458 or 430. I think I might be the rounded lights kinda guy - not completely sure yet though.
My advice: learn from others' mistakes (especially when it comes to material used and design "oopsies") make sure the materials you use will survive the temperatures and driving conditions the car will experience. And for the doors and other areas, build some mockups out of cheap materials just to verify stuff will fit and open and close properly
I have a Fiero, a dream, and GIMP2.0. Actually, it's 95% there mechanically. Then the body needs to be aquired.
