Well, here is the first kick at the cat for the nose. Its pretty bland at the moment. I think I want some spice up front but don't have a feeling for it yet. Anyone have any ideas?
I do like the shape, but not the door and quarter panel, it looks too angular and lineal, it looks like a blend of a 308gtb and a gallardo, maybe a litle bit more courevaceous on the side panels . it's just my opinion but evrey body have their own taste
Well, here is the first kick at the cat for the nose. Its pretty bland at the moment. I think I want some spice up front but don't have a feeling for it yet. Anyone have any ideas?
Well, since you asked! I'm kinda partial to this one!
Jonathan
[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 12-19-2013).]
Originally posted by Chelo Fiero: I do like the shape, but not the door and quarter panel, it looks too angular and lineal, it looks like a blend of a 308gtb and a gallardo, maybe a litle bit more courevaceous on the side panels . it's just my opinion but evrey body have their own taste
I like the general shape too but I agree that the door and quarter panel needed some work. So here is something different. It's starting to look pretty good I think. Still conforms well to the original Fiero shape though. Comments are always welcome. And the larger static version.
I have been back to this thread ten times since this morning just to look at this one pic:
The more I see it, the more I love it. And I loved it the first time I saw it!
Now that's funny. It was a starting place for me and an ending place for you. The lines are stronger than the latest ones for sure. I go back and forth myself. I like the more curvy lines of the most recent - they seem subtly sexy and sultry to me. The older lines have more of an attitude that takes its stance by force and dares you to knock it down. Exotics are powerful in the sense that they evoke emotion and make a statement. The Ferrari is a prancing horse: I see a lot of smiling faces on the front end and sexy curves on the sides with an engine that is ready to gallop. The Lambourghini is a raging bull: I see two big nostrils on the face and an aggressive stance that is looking to charge. They both evoke an emotion, and as I have thought about it as I try to come to a final shape I think I am more an equestrian that a matador. Does that make any sense?
[This message has been edited by CMacD (edited 12-21-2013).]
The progress is looking goo in my opinion, but I have another observation you might want to consider. Before deciding on how the nose is going to look in profile, you should probably decide what style headlights you want to use. If you're going with pop-ups, you can have pretty much any slope and shape for the front end you want, but they might look odd since the rest of the car is a more modern style. If you go with fancy fixed position projectors off another car, they will probably influence the shape and slope of your hood and front fenders big time.
The progress is looking goo in my opinion, but I have another observation you might want to consider. Before deciding on how the nose is going to look in profile, you should probably decide what style headlights you want to use. If you're going with pop-ups, you can have pretty much any slope and shape for the front end you want, but they might look odd since the rest of the car is a more modern style. If you go with fancy fixed position projectors off another car, they will probably influence the shape and slope of your hood and front fenders big time.
I agree with you. I am still undecided about the front end. I was playing with it a bit today but nothing really jelled. The front really determines what the car is in my opinion. Funny because I always felt the 308 was determined by the sides and the front was just hum drum. Now every exotic seems to tell a story with its "eyes" and "entices" with its profile. I think I will be going for fixed headlights - now I just need to figure out the story
I really like what the 458 Italia has going on so I added a bit of front and back end work along those lines. It still retains the previous Fribun heritage but I think this gives it a more cab forward modern appearance. I had to drop the back of the chop top a bit and the wheels had to change too And the full size... clark
Very nice concept and all, but two more practical problems to consider: changing the rake of the windshield or any other part of the 'cage' will likely be very complicated and expensive to say the least. The deep 'scoops' on the doors might also be impractical. How are you going to fit a window mechanism in those doors? The other problem with the deep scoops is aerodynamic. If they're meant to be functional they will probably be pulling air out of the engine bay when you would have expected them to push it in. Either way they look like they're going to create a lot of drag and wind noise.
More on the plus side mirrors may be a thing of the past before you know it. Cameras are more and more common and likely safer and cheaper than mirrors. Lambo doors would be nice. I think they would be more practical and safe too. A bigger opening to crawl out of and less of what must be one of the most common accidents - collisions with open doors.
I like the middle designs that look more like the Fiero. The shortness of the Fiero is never going to be that easy to get around or disguise. Although the Mera kit is the most attractive variation in my opinion Ferrari might not be the best place to start. A Boxer or Bentley shape might be better suited to the dimensions and shape of the Fiero space frame. The rounded teardrop shape is also supposed to be the most aerodynamic.
The deep 'scoops' on the doors might also be impractical. How are you going to fit a window mechanism in those doors?
With wider hips, he could easily leave the deepest part of the door scoop at the same depth as the stock door and keep the roll up windows.
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Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: The... deep scoops... will probably be pulling air out of the engine bay when you would have expected them to push it in.
I don't think the airflow could reverse itself against the ram air flowing into the scoops. He will need a way to vent that ram air out the back or through the deck lid though.
I love the latest version. I noticed you've gotten rid of the stock B-pillars, shortened the cabin six inches by doing so, and added a rearward rake to the back edge of the door glass... those changes, though quite subtle on the drawing board, will add a significant amount of fabrication work to the space frame and require new glass. It's sexy but in my humble opinion achieving this shape on a Fiero space frame is going to require a major investment and serious skills. Go for it though if you have the ability... I'd love to watch the build.
I don't think the airflow could reverse itself against the ram air flowing into the scoops. He will need a way to vent that ram air out the back or through the deck lid though.
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It's counterintuitive, but apparently what happens is as the vehicle pushes through the air a vacuum is created where the cross section gets smaller. Pressure is created where the cross section gets larger, such as the bottom of the windshield. That's the idea behind the cowl scoop and where your cabin air comes from. By having those scoops in the doors a vacuum will be created that will pull against the vacuum being created by the decklid vents. To make the side vents work the body needs to get wider behind them. This could be done without the complicated door scoops. IMHO
Unless you're going to put radiators there I don't see the point because any air coming in through the side scoops will go right back out the decklid vents. Maybe the place to put the decklid vent would be on the back, over the taillights. Anybody got a wind tunnel or wind tunnel app?
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: It's counterintuitive, but apparently what happens is as the vehicle pushes through the air a vacuum is created where the cross section gets smaller. Pressure is created where the cross section gets larger, such as the bottom of the windshield. That's the idea behind the cowl scoop and where your cabin air comes from. By having those scoops in the doors a vacuum will be created that will pull against the vacuum being created by the decklid vents. To make the side vents work the body needs to get wider behind them. This could be done without the complicated door scoops. IMHO
Unless you're going to put radiators there I don't see the point because any air coming in through the side scoops will go right back out the decklid vents. Maybe the place to put the decklid vent would be on the back, over the taillights. Anybody got a wind tunnel or wind tunnel app?
I don't see any scoops in the doors. I see vents, for venting the front brakes and air pressure from under the hood, out the side of the car. I don't see how these would be any different than when people install the T/A vents in the front fenders behind the wheels. And the side scoops behind the doors don't look like they would be any different than the many different types of rear fender scoops that anyone installs on a stock bodied Fiero (or the scoops on an IMSA body).
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: Very nice concept and all, but two more practical problems to consider: changing the rake of the windshield or any other part of the 'cage' will likely be very complicated and expensive to say the least.
It's not that expensive or complicated really. Archie's choptop kit includes changing the windshield rake. And since this car is getting chopped, it's safe to presume that either Archie's kit will be used, or the owner will be doing something very similar. As long as it's a hardtop, then there's quite a lot of room to play with changing the windshield rake in a chop. If one wants the factory sunroof, then there's a lot less room to play, and if you want T-tops or a Targa, then it's going to be a bit more difficult.
But for a hardtop, the hardest part will be finding replacement door and rear window glass.
Originally posted by Bloozberry: I love the latest version.
Me too Blooz. The previous versions just didn't look "exotic" to me. I don't know how else to describe it. They were OK, but just didn't excite me.
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I noticed you've gotten rid of the stock B-pillars, shortened the cabin six inches by doing so, and added a rearward rake to the back edge of the door glass... those changes, though quite subtle on the drawing board, will add a significant amount of fabrication work to the space frame and require new glass. It's sexy but in my humble opinion achieving this shape on a Fiero space frame is going to require a major investment and serious skills. Go for it though if you have the ability... I'd love to watch the build.
I was hoping that I could still keep the B-pillars and just add a bit of "covering" over them keeping the cabin the same size. One of my design criteria is to keep most of the stock Fiero intact. I am willing to do the chop top and a bit of front or rear extension / chop but I want to keep the basic Fiero frame underneath. That includes the cabin. Now if there are issues with covering some things then they may be problematic. Case in point: I was hoping that I might be able to use the stock door glass seeing as how the chop top was now sloped down at the back. I would have to modify the way the glass moves inside the door housing but I would chop and tilt to maintain the stock glass. Has anyone done that before with a chop top that you are aware of? I have not done an investigation into it yet - just an "assumption" that it could be possible. I am not constrained by making this vehicle look like something else so I am trying to work with stock as much as possible. If it doesn't work (and quite possibly it won't) then I am open to getting custom glass or plastic made.
Originally posted by CMacD: I was hoping that I could still keep the B-pillars and just add a bit of "covering" over them keeping the cabin the same size. One of my design criteria is to keep most of the stock Fiero intact. I am willing to do the chop top and a bit of front or rear extension / chop but I want to keep the basic Fiero frame underneath. That includes the cabin. Now if there are issues with covering some things then they may be problematic. Case in point: I was hoping that I might be able to use the stock door glass seeing as how the chop top was now sloped down at the back. I would have to modify the way the glass moves inside the door housing but I would chop and tilt to maintain the stock glass. Has anyone done that before with a chop top that you are aware of? I have not done an investigation into it yet - just an "assumption" that it could be possible. I am not constrained by making this vehicle look like something else so I am trying to work with stock as much as possible. If it doesn't work (and quite possibly it won't) then I am open to getting custom glass or plastic made.
If you go with a choptop, you're going to need custom glass. The size and angles change as a result of the chop. If you want the easiest path to get a choptop, call V8 Archie, and ask about his kit and if he has the custom door and rear glass available still.
I like it......It is like a cross between a Lancia Stratos and Ferrari 458.
Every time I look at the Stratos I keep thinking to myself that something is a little off. Almost like the cabin is a bit too small for my taste. So I looked again at the new Fribun cabin design and I see what you mean. It does have a Stratos appearance. So I changed it a little and added the rear quarter window back again. I am undecided as to which one I prefer but I think it has a better symmetry now though.
Originally I preferred the rear slope going all the way to the back, but I agree with you that it looks a little more common like that. Go with the new lines. However, I like it more without the quarter glass. I also preferred the other rims.
...and I won't give up pushing for a rear spoiler ...at least something that pops up at speed...I'm a robotics engineer...you gotta have something that moves...batwings, spoilers, anything!!!
[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 12-29-2013).]
I liked the other version better without the quarter window.
In the side view, how far back do you believe the rear window will be situated? It might be worth your while to mark where the stock rear window location is on one of your modified drawings to see how it will impact your sail panel design. Bear in mind that in the stock Fiero the rear window is located well behind the rear edge of the door glass (something like 8 inches). Those 8" are where the seat is installed so you can't simply truncate the cabin by moving the rear window forward without losing serious leg (torso, arm, head) room. Just try sitting in your car with the seat in the full forward position and then try imagining it another 4" further forward.
Originally posted by Neils88:...and I won't give up pushing for a rear spoiler ...at least something that pops up at speed...I'm a robotics engineer...you gotta have something that moves...batwings, spoilers, anything!!!
LOL. I like your tenacity Neil. I am really not a rear spoiler type of guy - but I could possibly consider the type on the McLaren P4. They integrate it right in with the shape of the back end. That may be doable. It looks like the Fribun's sides are going to be a tad higher than the top of the engine bay so there is room. Once I get the side view all ironed out then I will probably tackle the back end next.
That's it Bob. Get 'R' Done. I am in the planning stages of this project while I finish some other ones off. No dust will settle on it ( I have a lot to learn and figure out first) but the build won't happen until my portable robotic telescope observatory is built and parked in Arizona or New Mexico, and my garage is erected. I have a portable garage at the moment and the robotic telescope project is about half way done. I have other people working on that one too - writing computer software to automate it from 2000 miles away etc. I have way too many hobbies for one man but I have a wife that is more than supportive. I have never modified a car like this before - although I have made a 4WD log skidder from a Suzuki Samurai which required a ton of mechanical mods etc so it will be a learning curve for me for sure. I don't know very much about Fieros either but am willing to learn.
I liked the other version better without the quarter window.
I vacillate back and forth over this one. Without the window makes it look more "exotic" to me. Although the rear window makes it look more "refined" and higher priced looking I think. I'd be interested in your thought process for without
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[In the side view, how far back do you believe the rear window will be situated? It might be worth your while to mark where the stock rear window location is on one of your modified drawings to see how it will impact your sail panel design. Bear in mind that in the stock Fiero the rear window is located well behind the rear edge of the door glass (something like 8 inches). Those 8" are where the seat is installed so you can't simply truncate the cabin by moving the rear window forward without losing serious leg (torso, arm, head) room. Just try sitting in your car with the seat in the full forward position and then try imagining it another 4" further forward.
Whatever the design I think the stock rear window distance will be maintained. I don't wish to play with the cabin size - that would be just too much work for little gain in my opinion. So even without the quarter windows there will be a rear window where it normally is for the Fiero - We will just make the design work.
Originally posted by CMacD: I'd be interested in your thought process for without.
Without the quarter glass, my eye is led to imagine the sail panels are rounded fairings for roll bar hoops (sort of like the F50 or 458 spider). The shading on the sail panels gives them that look.
On the other hand, with the quarter glass I find the sharp rear point, the heavy curvature or angle inwards of the quarter glass, and the strangely shaped opaque matt-black B-pillar just behind the door glass all... distracting (for lack of a better word). It's your design though... both look great, I just prefer the one without the quarter glass.
The updated pic looks awesome....Maybe lose the original mirrors too.And how is the rear diffuser gonna look like?
Original mirrors now gone. I like the idea of putting camera's in the car but A) I kinda like the look of mirrors and B) I am not sure if they are required legally?
Apart from some other issue that I haven't dealt with yet I think I am done with the side view. The door handle has been moved up a few inches from stock as it looked kinda weird where it normally lands, added a bit of color to the brake calipers and cleaned up some lines that were not well defined. The front and back ends now have a definite Ferrari 458 Italia look to them. I kept the nose rather pointy as I am going for a "shark" look. I will deviate from the 458 front and rear but I like how that model pulls stuff together between the views. The quarter window is gone as it does look more exotic without it. The center of gravity seems to lean further forward without it and heck (and most importantly) most of you didn't appreciate it either
So here is the stock Fiero and the Fribun and how they line up together. The top of the hood by the wipers are just about the only things now that remain unchanged.
And here is hopefully the final side view. Thanks so much for everyone's input. It really helps to hear other people's opinions.
Is your design wider than the Fiero? It looks like the side scoop covers the original door. That could be really good. In effect it could channel air from the front to the back and you'd still have all the window and door functions.
Is your design wider than the Fiero? It looks like the side scoop covers the original door. That could be really good. In effect it could channel air from the front to the back and you'd still have all the window and door functions.
Yep. That's the plan Nice fat tires too. Which brings me to a very important question. Given the short wheelbase of the Fiero what would be the upper limit to the size and width of the tires that I can fit? Tires too wide for such a short car could go beyond looking sweet to just plain stupid I would think. And more importantly they will also dictate the final width of the design. And what about the difference in width of the front tires compared to the rears? Are there formulas for these types of things - or maybe a general rule?
I'm kinda partial to this one!
