I am swaping in a Quad 4 DOHC High Output 2.3L into my 87 base couple daily driver. I thought I would share the tons of pics I have and info. The reason I am doing a Quad 4 is that I have 2 1/2 H.O. engines and I want more MPG than the duke has. (I am getting 30MPG now) plus double the HP is not bad either. I also got a whole Quad swap from Fierobsessed (his swap thread can be found here //www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060811-1-039415.html ) I was going to do a turbo Quad swap back in 2003-2004 but I got my GT and, well, just kept working on that. Now that my GT is turbo charged I figured I would get back to my quad swap in the quest for MPG. And with the clutch going out on my duke I figured "what better time" I do have to rebuild the quad and use the best parts of the 3 engines I have. I also allready have 2 full gasket sets. Being a quest for MPG means I want to spend as little $$$ as possible on this swap. I started to tear down the engines 2 days ago and have spent most of my free time working on them so pics may/will come slowly. So here are some pics to start untill I get more time to post. I am going to be posting TONS of pics as there is not enough Quad 4 swap info on here.
Cleaning up the engine that came out of Fierobsessed's Indy
Lots of close ups of the engine sitting on the cradle, different angles, to make sure I can get it all back together, and to show how everything fits.
I knew a guy who had a quad four Fiero but I never rode in it. He reported that the power band down low felt exactly like his Duke but as soon as the revs hit 3000 RPM the power came on fast. I don't believe that he was getting better gas mileage than a Duke a something like 35 hwy mpg. I've heard of Duke owners with the 5 speed Isuzu's getting 39 to 40 hwy mpg. Good luck with the swap.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
The stock double rollor timming chain. What a great thing. and cam gears.
The chain tensioner.
The block.
Time to go work on it some more, will post more pics later. I'm sure your ISP (Internet Service Provider) hates you by now anyway I have alot more pics and more to take too, stay tuned.
I am glad to see another Quad4 Fiero in progress. It was a fun little FWD engine that loved to rev. I started down the road of building a Quad4 Fiero, but the project got derailed when my Quad4 block was un-usable. I may have some odds and ends you could use. I have the W41 EFI chip that is supposed to be good for 5hp over the H.O chip. I also have some rebuild parts that you may need too. Send me a PM if you are interested.
I am glad to see another Quad4 Fiero in progress. It was a fun little FWD engine that loved to rev. I started down the road of building a Quad4 Fiero, but the project got derailed when my Quad4 block was un-usable. I may have some odds and ends you could use. I have the W41 EFI chip that is supposed to be good for 5hp over the H.O chip. I also have some rebuild parts that you may need too. Send me a PM if you are interested.
The chip I have is allready a W41. I think I have what I need, and I hope to have this swap done by the time anything could arrive in the mail. But I will PM you to see what you got.
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
TOO AWESOME!
Just an FYI though, the throttle body is off a shortstar not a 3.4 DOHC, I've got two of those TB's in my garage.
What are your plans for the swap, just a rebuild? or maybe on of those fancy spinning exhaust things that go woosh?
Mainly just a rebuild, and getting all the power I can N/A with what I have to work with. I allready have a "Vacuum drivin centrifugal exhaust muffling device" on my GT and with that, I know boost makes my MPG damn near go in the negitives, (can't stay out of it, too much fun) and stock compression being 10:1 doesn't give me any room for boost. And I just don't want to boost this swap.
I was also told the TB is a 96-97 3.4 DOHC Throttlebody.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 06-20-2012).]
Quad number 2. There are some brackets/heat sheilds/etc that were missing from the first Quad, so this engine will "fill in some blanks" Hopefully this head will not be cracked.
Curios about the milky oil, that one is a surprise. The CC's look free of leakage, you would have seen a clean piston. I wouldn't put too much weight into minor cracks between valve seats and spark plug holes. That head may still be the best one you'll find, unless of course the milky oil was the result of a more serious crack in the head. If you have pictures of the cracks I'd like to see them. It took me quite a while to find a head that was, at least at the time, free of cracks. It came from a 91 Q4 LO. IIRC. Not like there isn't a whole lot of these in a yard very close to you
The only places I could see being the source of the leakage would be either a serious cracked head, water pump, headbolts, a leaky headgasket, or water getting in externally. Either way I'm still a bit surprised that it has milky oil.
Yes the cracks are very small, don't know if they would show up in a pic. But they are there none the less. As far as using the cracked head "Just say no to crack" And picked-a-part wants close to $90 for a DOHC head and they are not the easiest to pull. The milky oil is what was left over in the pan, I don't recall the oil being too bad as I drained it. As for seeing the cracks you are encouraged to come see them in person.
BUT it is crack free, it is not an 086 head but it is a 753E head rated at 5 less HP, (non ported) and less prone to cracking. The exhaust ports are a little smaller, intake is the exact same and valve sizes are the same too. Took a few hours cleaning out all the carbon from it, and the valves don't look so hot. I need to figure out what all to use head wise at this point.
One more thing, The transmission on my old Quad is a 3.94:1 unit from an Achieva SCX. It NEEDS work. It is functional, but I think some synchros and or shift forks were messed up from day one. You're probably going to have to mishmash a few Getrags to make one good one.
Also, with that slave adaptor, You do obviously use a stock getrag slave. However... The shift arm that it actuates is much shorter then the Fiero's Getrag. There are two consequences to that. You would need to put a clutch stop in place to restrict the travel. The other issue is that the pedal is fairly hard. It feels like a very heavily sprung pressure plate, even though it is stock.
I've heard that the plastic slave that is designed for the Q4's getrag with the Fiero's master has too short a stroke, so this was the solution I came up with. I didn't use a stroke limiter, but probably should have.
Here is how I like to keep the bolts organized. If it is going to be a long time between disassembly and reassembly, ziplock bags and marking the bags with a sharpie is a better way.
A good way to keep the valves in order
The pile of parts, really a small pile compared to other engines.
The fuel rail and injectors.
The bottom of the cam covers.
The tappets that fit in the cam covers and sit on top of the valves.
I thought this was a cool feature. The valve springs sit on top of bearings instead of just the head.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 06-22-2012).]
damn! after reading up a little on the quad four, I wish I had done a Q4 swap instead of my 3500 I'm working on! 180hp four cylinder! that's impressive!
------------------ there's a Group on 60degreeV6.com for us 660 Fiero owners!
damn! after reading up a little on the quad four, I wish I had done a Q4 swap instead of my 3500 I'm working on! 180hp four cylinder! that's impressive!
And that is stock before any modding, fully modded I have seen them up to 220 N/A. That was 8 years ago, prob more now. Boosted ones are hitting over 400HP. I am hoping for 200hp myself.
Here is the 753 head I have to work with. Rated at 5HP less than the 086.
The intake ports, same size as the 086 head. BTW the 086 is the best flowing head.
The exhaust ports. They are a litte smaller than the 086 head. Thus the 5HP less and the exhaust manifold for the 753 is a little smaller too, but I won't be useing that manifold.
One side of the port opened up to match the 086 head.
All the ports matched.
The cutting tool I used, it is a very aggressive aluminum cutting bit, cuts very fast and doesn't clog up.
And what I used to make sure the port are the same size as the 086.
Now it flows the same as the 086 head. I still have to port the bowls on the exhaust and smooth it all out. Then smooth out the intake side, no gains on opening up the intake, just smooth it out. Most gains on porting a Quad head comes from the exhaust. I do have this very nice cut-a-way of a Quad head.
It's a good little engine. It got me 33 MPG on the highway without breaking a sweat, I probably could have gotten much more out of it if I wasn't busy making SO much noise.
It is an engine that does deliver! It's SMALLER then a duke displacement wise, and it is only a bit heavier. It gets the same mileage as a duke, but puts out twice the power easily. It's also a bunch of fun to drive!
It's not an easy swap however. It requires a bit of work to make the mounts work, and even then, you're very hard pressed to get it to fit under a deck lid because it is so tall. A good exhaust is hard to do too since the exhaust must exit the rear of the engine, you are almost forced to either cut the trunk, or make a snakey mess single exhaust, or go without a cat. Or do what I did and make a few noise complaints in the process. At least it sounds NOTHING like an import for some reason.
I'm glad I did the swap, but I'll be happy again when the next engine goes into the Indy. When I get my act together that car is getting some royal treatment... Not disclosing yet, not in Dave's build thread anyway. This is his baby.
Since 1992 Ive been driving my "85 GT with a Quad 4 16V H.O. This little motor just never quits and loves revving Soon Im going to have to do a full rebuild, any particular mods that you suggest? Turbo? Now that would be interesting.
Great thread!! Used to be a site, Mantapart that had lots of stuff for the Quad, sadly, looks like it is no longer. When he was retiring (2010), looks like he tried to sell the business, but seems no one picked it up.
BR's,
Mark
------------------ 86 SE V6 4 speed 86 SE V6 Auto 2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe 2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous 2001 Olds Silhouette (AKA The Band Van)
Now that the head flows like a stock 086, time do do some bowl work porting. I opened up the bowls to be the same size as the valve seats, there was a good 1/8" to remove, blended the bowls into the ports, and smoothed the short side radius. Then did a mirror polish on all of it. This will help carbon from sticking to the walls of the port.
Taping off the valve seats. I used lots of tape and if you hit the tape at all add more tape. This will/should stop the valve seats from getting nicked. I also used old valves in the intake to protect those seats.
The rough cut.
The finished exhaust ports, so smooth and shiny. Should be good flowing.
Now I have to port the intake, but on a Quad 4 head you just have to clean up the intake, not much to be gained there.
A bunch of parts ready to be cleaned. I took the best parts of the 3 engines.
Our parts washer, it is able to do HIGH pressure HOT soapy water. It is soooo nice. It runs off of gas for the pressure and deisel for the heat, and special rigged to be able to do high pressure soap too.
Cleaned parts, courtesy of my friend Tim.
Engine mounts.
Tim spent a few hours and wire wheeled/brushed the cradle, to get ready for paint and to get rid of that east coast rust.
I got a bunch more to do tomorrow, almost time for reassembly, and only a week into it.
Since 1992 Ive been driving my "85 GT with a Quad 4 16V H.O. This little motor just never quits and loves revving Soon Im going to have to do a full rebuild, any particular mods that you suggest? Turbo? Now that would be interesting.
Mods to suggest.?.? Not sure on years that have these, get the small crank pully, I think 90-92' the biggest exhaust manifold, some are smaller than others, but they look the same. the W41 cams 5HP The W41 chip 5HP, and raises the redline from 6700 RPM to 7400 RPM. I can always burn you a chip if you need one. Good free flowing exhaust, get a high flowing head and have it ported. gasket match the intake manifold
Use a power adder, boost and NOS are always fun, but must be built for. And that is whole nother build itself.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-30-2012).]
Just a quick question regarding Quad4s, what's the story with the 2.4 Twin Cam LD9? Do any of the W41 or Quad4 HO parts fit it?
Pretty cool build by the way, quite fond of the concept. It just looks the part in a Fiero.
The 2.4L came after 95, the only way to get the cams to fit is you have to get the Intake cam from a 95 as the power steering gear is different, (called "the secret cam swap") but I believe the exhaust cam fits. I have seen a page with the H.O. Intake manifold moddified to fit, I think they cut off the flange and welded the 2.4 one on. The rest of the parts I don't know off hand.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 06-25-2012).]
I finished up porting the head today, yea I didn't really touch the intake much at all. Where the valve seats go into the head there was a little bump, smoothed that out. The divider between ports I knife edged a bit, but the rest I left alone. Porting the exhaust is where all the gains are on the Quad 4 head.
But I did polish the combustion chambers to a nice shine. You want to remove as little of metal as possible, just to get a good polish on it. (It eliminates sharp points causeing hot spots, and it helps stop carbon from sticking) I used the old valves I had and polished away.
Before and after the sanding.
More before pics.
All polished out, and done porting and polishing the head.
Now comes the intake manifold. The intake on the head is bigger than the intake gasket, so the gasket needs to be opened up to match the head. In this pic the new gasket has been opened up and is overlayed on the old gasket, the black in the post is how much it is opened up over the base gasket. Kinda hard to see but it's there.
Now that the gasket matches the head, the gasket is alot bigger than the intake manifold ports. Time for more porting. This shows just how much the manifold needs to be opened.
Again I used a sharpie to mark off the port.
But since I couldn't get the sharpie close enough due to the thickness of the gasket, I also used a sharp nail to scratch a line closer to the edge. You can see how much needs to be removed and blended in.
Now you can see how much better it is.
On the left port above, there is a bump in the port I also smoothed out to open up the port to match the other ports.
Porting has shown some good gains in the Quad 4, thus where I plan on getting the other 15HP to bring me to 200HP, plus what the bigger throttle body gives too. On a reg FWD Quad 4s they have headers now good for 15-20HP, having the free flowing exhaust on the Fiero should help quite a bit too
Almost done prepping the parts, then it's time to reassemble.
Some pretty interesting reading. Damnit, I was going to use that 3800 in my shed from my old Fiero but heck if you haven't gotten me excited about a Quad!
I like. I wanted to do a quad 4 swap for a while but went another route instead... What did you use to polish the compustion chamber? And did you use those cutting bits in a dremel? I plan on a bunch of porting and polishing real soon and I need to buy bits for a dremel or an air grinder (I have both) And Im just not sure where to get them
I also got a whole Quad swap from Fierobsessed (his swap thread can be found here 
)
