Originally posted by nosrac: Thread Title is :[QUOTE]3800 SC or V8? by Pontiacguy86
[/QUOTE]
I think that actually ended after the first few comments on page 1. Topic seems to be "How far can you urinate into a headwind?" now.
But I'm sure the OP has learned by now that any thread with 3800 or V8 in the title is the wrong thing to bring up on this forum. Simple answer to that question is, they both have advantages and disadvantages, and you have to research what you want out of your car, and build something appropriate for your goals and your wallet. ∎
Actually, the 80 to 130 area is what I like the most. If a car can move the needles quickly through those areas, then that's power.
Can you say "TICKET CITY"? A lot of people who look at my engine ask me how fast it will go. I tell them that it is limited by the computer to 165mph, but I will never drive it that fast. I want to keep my drivers license. They would take both my license and my car if they caught me going that fast. Plus it would be unconscionably dangerous!
Can you say "TICKET CITY"? A lot of people who look at my engine ask me how fast it will go. I tell them that it is limited by the computer to 165mph, but I will never drive it that fast. I want to keep my drivers license. They would take both my license and my car if they caught me going that fast. Plus it would be unconscionably dangerous!
Yet you can LEGALLY take it to the dragstrip and many other places and go as fast as your balls will allow and find out for sure just what you have there and exactly how fast it will go and have a ton of fun doing it and meet other Fiero Nutjobs like me while you are there.... hehehe it's a win win....peace
Originally posted by Pete Matos: Yet you can LEGALLY take it to the dragstrip and many other places and go as fast as your balls will allow and find out for sure just what you have there and exactly how fast it will go and have a ton of fun doing it and meet other Fiero Nutjobs like me while you are there.... hehehe it's a win win....peace
Pete
Bonneville is a bit of a hike for most people on this forum. And the Nurburgring is a significantly further and costlier trip. A 1/4 mile pass, or short loops around a track, will tell you very little about the full spectrum of a car's performance characteristics. Not to mention you probably won't find too many Fiero nutjobs there, if you do happen to come across one. Going to the drag strip is fun, but trying to claim superiority on the Internet just because you took your car there, is ignorant. By all means, go and have fun, but don't go around acting like you own the world because you have a time slip and your car traveled through 1/4 mile in some number of seconds.
Bonneville is a bit of a hike for most people on this forum. And the Nurburgring is a significantly further and costlier trip. A 1/4 mile pass, or short loops around a track, will tell you very little about the full spectrum of a car's performance characteristics. Not to mention you probably won't find too many Fiero nutjobs there, if you do happen to come across one. Going to the drag strip is fun, but trying to claim superiority on the Internet just because you took your car there, is ignorant. By all means, go and have fun, but don't go around acting like you own the world because you have a time slip and your car traveled through 1/4 mile in some number of seconds.
Oh brother.... Here we go again. You certainly do NOT need to go to bonneville to wring out a fiero and there are lots of tracks and places that you can legally go to test your car. Actually I will for sure go around acting like I own the world when I finally get my fiero to the strip and it runs a nice low quarter.... That is my right as a Fiero Nutjob and I am sticking to it!! Hell I may just take my STOCK fiero to the strip and see what it runs regardless of how embarrasing a 2.8 auto is over there. You are missing the point here. I would do it because it is fun to do..... It really does not matter what I do to or with my car because no matter what I do to it or how much money I spend on it there will ALWAYS be folks that are tons faster out there. I am doing it because it makes me giggle like a schoolgirl and floats my boat on my lake. I am doing it because I can and if I can build something in my garage shop that goes nice and fast then I will be happy. You may be right that I will probably not find other Fiero Nutjobs there but that is probably because guys like you and others here are too whatever to drag their car down there and run it for folks to see. I know up there in michigan there is apparently a bunch of fast fiero's running at least occasionally so they are representing the breed however they can and doing a fine job if you ask me. I personally think most people are quite interested in the Fiero when they actually get to see one in person. I get lots of positive comments on mine and it is not even running yet. I see all sorts of piece of crap cars at the strip running and the owners are just tickled pink to take it out there and see what it will run. Everything from bikes to snowmobiles to scooters to mopeds and everything in between has been run so why the hell would you not want to take your car down there and give it a little hell is beyond me. Especially if I went thru all the expense and trouble of doing an engine swap.
I see a bunch of folks here that use their fiero's for drag racing, autocrossing, even trying to push their top speed runs.... It is awesome to see people trying to expand the envelope of what a fiero can be and we all learn from their experiences. If it were not for the first guy that said HMM I bet I can stick this 3800 engine from my wife's wrecked GTP in that fiero we would not have some of the really fast cars on here. I used to watch one particular youtube video of a yellowish fiero fastback with a 3800SC swap cruising in florida and doing a sick little burnout but the video has been removed from youtube or at least I cannot find it. I loved that video and it was the inspiration for me getting a fiero in the first place. I cannot imagine having an engine swapped powerful fiero and NOT trying to see what it can do somehow. It is just beyond me... peace
Yet you can LEGALLY take it to the dragstrip and many other places and go as fast as your balls will allow and find out for sure just what you have there and exactly how fast it will go and have a ton of fun doing it and meet other Fiero Nutjobs like me while you are there.... hehehe it's a win win....peace
Pete
I can and will take it to the dragstrip to document what it is capable of. It will probably do in the neighborhood of 130mph in the quarter and I've never driven a car over 125mph. When most people ask me how fast it will go I think that they are thinking on the highway which is where I did 125mph a long time ago. Even if I could find a place to test the top speed, I don't know if I would trust the tires at that speed. My computer limits it to 165 mph, which I'm sure that I could disable and probably do 180 mph, but it would scare the hell out of me.
Drattz, Hey man if your car is really that powerful then IMHO you owe it to all the other Fiero Nutjobs here to take it to the track and don't forget the high definition video recording equipment!! It kinda reminds me of my old 5.0 hatchback. That car was MOSTLY stock with a set of gears, some flowmaster mufflers, some very mild bolt on engine parts and this nutjob behind the wheel. Every time I went to MOROSO with that car I was assured to be embarrased by the vast majority of the other mustangs running there. That sure as hell did not deter me from running the berries off that car. In the same way once I build my 3800 fiero here I am quite sure that there will be others here that will blow my doors off but I can guarantee you I will get every ounce of performance to be had out of that baby. It is just part of the fun of having a nice fast cool car if you ask me. It will surely take me awhile to afford all the hard parts, the turbo, wastegate, intercooler, bov etc. but I can build it as I go while enjoying the car with the stock engine in it. To me that is one of the most appealing aspects of the fiero. The idea that I can remove the entire drivetrain and work on another cradle preparing it for the performance dropout all while driving it with the stock dropout. Pretty cool. Looking forward to seeing your obviously high performance Fiero doing what it does best very soon. Peace
Pete, quarter mile and dyno slip will be it. I have no desire to compete with it. You know how it goes, even if I have the quickest car today, someone will have a faster one tomorrow. I bought a turbo kit because I have no experience and I don't want to blow my engine so I won't have the fun you will building your own. The turbo kit guy (Kevin at Cartuning) claims 640hp but I don't believe him. My car weighs 3400 lbs so it's not typical Fiero. A guy with a Monte Carlo turned a 11.01 quarter running Kevins kit, but he had a turbo cam(which Kevin says that I don't need) and a T76 turbo with some head work. He dynoed 505 rwhp which converts to 640 crank hp. I'm running a turbonetics T66.
It is an LS4. I don't have an argument with anyone about their choice of engines. Everyone has their own reasons for their choice. It's just my personal preference. I'm impressed with what the 3800sc guys get out of their engines too.
Everyone has their own reasons for their choice. It's just my personal preference. I'm impressed with what the 3800sc guys get out of their engines too.
I agree with you. It doesnt matter what anyone thinks (really it doesnt), its all about what the OWNER thinks. I mean, that is why we mod our cars, right? To make the car what we want, not what will impress random people on the interwebz. RIGHT?????????? If you are in the built to impress crowd... you will never be happy with your car since you didn't actually built it for you.
Personally I don't care what engine is installed into a Fiero. I just smile anytime I see one on the road. The more Dean and I work on my L67/PT67 turbo build, the more I wonder if I should have tried a turbo ECOTEC. I guess when it comes down to it, I'll be perfectly honest. Since my rating bar keeps heading to the red (shocking, cause I am actually one of the most helpful and generous "true" Fiero guys any of you could ever meet) I guess I don't need to hide how I feel. So here goes:
Steven aka BVMotorSports take on engine swaps and Fiero stuff;
BAD- Chop tops.. stupid and I hate them as much as I hate underbody neons and lambo doors. Again my opinion, and if you built the car for you, then my thoughts on it shouldn't matter.
SBC v8. I think it is stupid and half-assed to remove a fuel injected engine and throw in a carb'd v8 out of your dads 71 Monte Carlo. Even worse if you run points, a carb, ram horn manifolds, but slap on a Pep Boys chrome kit and loud ass muffler to make it look and sound fast. Now this isn't the same as some built and powerful gen1 SBC complete with aluminum heads etc to shave some weight and bump the power. HUGE DIFFERENCE. A solid 60-70% of sbc Fieros sadly fall into the first group.
Good- any engine swap that is full integrated. A/C, all lights and gauges work, cruise, diagnostic port etc... Anything the car had originally remains functional. I dont care if its a 1.4L 90hp engine or a 1000hp W16. If you are gonna do it, do it right and make it look like you took more than 5 min to figure out how to fit and route everything.
That is all.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-21-2012).]
"SBC v8. I think it is stupid and half-assed to remove a fuel injected engine and throw in a carb'd v8 out of your dads 71 Monte Carlo."
Just because there are better options does not make this anywhere near stupid. It's more HP and way more torque than the fastest stocker had, and some of us old farts like a carbed engine with HEI or even points because we understand them and can actually troubleshoot them on the side of the road. I'm sure my 3800 is a better package but I'd like to have a carbed 220-250 HP smallblock. I'm certain that the torque level would make it plenty of fun to me, and it would be far less aggravating than the quirky 2.8 or Duke.
Never understood this point of view. I have fun driving a Chevy Aveo when I travel despite the fact that even *I* think it's a completely lame car. If I'm driving a car I think is cool, what anyone else thinks is irrelevant, and I'm going to have fun at the track or strip and want to share that.
Understand what point of view? I do not care what anyone else thinks as well. I have my car the way I want it and I have fun with it. I have shared things about it. On the other forums I have received negative comments from folks who don't like my car. It doesn't bother me. But it's one thing to make a negative comment or disagree with someone and a completely different thing to harass folks constantly for years. I just don't feel the need to feed the trolls. He's been trolling SBC V8 Fiero's and Archie for over 12 years, you would think by now he would have moved on. But alas he hasn't. Really do not care what he does, but I am not going to let him ruin video's or comment on them for the purpose of harassing.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 05-21-2012).]
I have to agree with weasel bv....My engine is pumping 372 dynoed HP out and I'm doing it with a "antique" engine....you're right it's not as clean as an FI motor but it was far easier for me to put this in than a 3800 plus with a couple of screwdrivers I can tune it very easily. On the points I hav to agree...even though I'm nostalgic about setting points with a business card, HEI is a far better spark source. The reason I chose my engine was historic in nature as it is a built LT-1. "if any of you young bucks look that one up then make sure you spell it that way...it comes from 1970" It doesn't matter...all fieros are cool in their own way...I love the little car as I grew up in that era
"SBC v8. I think it is stupid and half-assed to remove a fuel injected engine and throw in a carb'd v8 out of your dads 71 Monte Carlo."
Just because there are better options does not make this anywhere near stupid. It's more HP and way more torque than the fastest stocker had, and some of us old farts like a carbed engine with HEI or even points because we understand them and can actually troubleshoot them on the side of the road. I'm sure my 3800 is a better package but I'd like to have a carbed 220-250 HP smallblock. I'm certain that the torque level would make it plenty of fun to me, and it would be far less aggravating than the quirky 2.8 or Duke.
read the underlined statement directly above what you quoted.
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I guess when it comes down to it, I'll be perfectly honest. Since my rating bar keeps heading to the red (shocking, cause I am actually one of the most helpful and generous "true" Fiero guys any of you could ever meet) I guess I don't need to hide how I feel.
People don't like being wrong, or having others disagree with them. They must protect their precious ego. So being honest will get you negative votes on here.
read the underlined statement directly above what you quoted.
It takes very little to bump up a 71 Monte power level. Most people change carb, intake and cam anyways. And the lowest HP smallblock had a ton more torque at least.
It takes very little to bump up a 71 Monte power level. Most people change carb, intake and cam anyways. And the lowest HP smallblock had a ton more torque at least.
Never understood this point of view. I have fun driving a Chevy Aveo when I travel despite the fact that even *I* think it's a completely lame car. If I'm driving a car I think is cool, what anyone else thinks is irrelevant, and I'm going to have fun at the track or strip and want to share that.
quote
Originally posted by troyboy:
WOW Will I think you get it. Now just say this to yourself every time before you post on RTF 3800 vs the world. sorry for the "typo"
This is truly a WOW factor moment
The WOW factor would occur when you read an entire post. You obviously didn't catch the line about having fun at the track or strip.
Understand what point of view? I do not care what anyone else thinks as well. I have my car the way I want it and I have fun with it. I have shared things about it. On the other forums I have received negative comments from folks who don't like my car. It doesn't bother me. But it's one thing to make a negative comment or disagree with someone and a completely different thing to harass folks constantly for years. I just don't feel the need to feed the trolls. He's been trolling SBC V8 Fiero's and Archie for over 12 years, you would think by now he would have moved on. But alas he hasn't. Really do not care what he does, but I am not going to let him ruin video's or comment on them for the purpose of harassing.
Lol... Welcome to the internet.
If I built a satellite and told my customer "trust me, it meets all your requirements" without providing documentation, I'd be laughed out of the industry.
Same with all the talk about fast cars. It's all talk until there's a timeslip. And talk is cheap, but timeslips are expensive.
If I built a satellite and told my customer "trust me, it meets all your requirements" without providing documentation, I'd be laughed out of the industry.
Same with all the talk about fast cars. It's all talk until there's a timeslip. And talk is cheap, but timeslips are expensive.
The thing is I have a time slip and posted it. I have a dyno run and posted it. But I do not understand what "point of view" you are talking about with regards to my questions to MstangsBware? Is it because I have not linked video's of my car at the drag strip or on a road course? The video's are for sharing with folks with a shared interest, not with someone who trolls for arguments. In regards to your analogy: Sharing specs and documentation with customers or interested parties of your satellite is fine, But allowing a group of satellite haters to your documentation or promo videos so they can ridicule the product is not a good idea. Most companies control what information is posted publicly and what information they supply to customers.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 05-21-2012).]
"SBC v8. I think it is stupid and half-assed to remove a fuel injected engine and throw in a carb'd v8 out of your dads 71 Monte Carlo."
Just because there are better options does not make this anywhere near stupid. It's more HP and way more torque than the fastest stocker had, and some of us old farts like a carbed engine with HEI or even points because we understand them and can actually troubleshoot them on the side of the road. I'm sure my 3800 is a better package but I'd like to have a carbed 220-250 HP smallblock. I'm certain that the torque level would make it plenty of fun to me, and it would be far less aggravating than the quirky 2.8 or Duke.
Sure it does. If you cant fix or troubleshoot it, maybe a 60's aircooled VW beetle is more your speed? Move forward, not backwards. And if you are gonna quote me, make sure you include the point I was making.
Even worse if you run points, a carb, ram horn manifolds, but slap on a Pep Boys chrome kit and loud ass muffler to make it look and sound fast. Now this isn't the same as some built and powerful gen1 SBC complete with aluminum heads etc to shave some weight and bump the power. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-21-2012).]
The thing is I have a time slip and posted it. I have a dyno run and posted it. But I do not understand what "point of view" you are talking about with regards to my questions to MstangsBware? Is it because I have not linked video's of my car at the drag strip or on a road course? The video's are for sharing with folks with a shared interest, not with someone who trolls for arguments. In regards to your analogy: Sharing specs and documentation with customers or interested parties of your satellite is fine, But allowing a group of satellite haters to your documentation or promo videos so they can ridicule the product is not a good idea. Most companies control what information is posted publicly and what information they supply to customers.
Oreif, As I have said many times here. I personally love the 3800 cars. However I also love seeing a fast fiero no matter what is under the decklid. You said you posted dyno runs and quarter mile times and were apprehensive to post a video because of fear of ridicule or v8 bashing or whatever. I have personally never seen any of those. I do not know if you realize that if you post it on youtube you can select to block comments from jerks like shauna there and whoever else completely. I would personally love to see your video of the quarter mile run so if you can post it that way you are not gonna have to deal with the bullshit. Of course if you link it here you might get a smartass or two but I can promise you I will not be one of them..... Just a thought. IMHO we need more pics and videos of cool fast fiero's out there for all to see and enjoy even if your car is bone stock and runs like an overweight snail. It is just fun to see a fiero on the strip....peace
Sure it does. If you cant fix or troubleshoot it, maybe a 60's aircooled VW beetle is more your speed? Move forward, not backwards. And if you are gonna quote me, make sure you include the point I was making.
Even worse if you run points, a carb, ram horn manifolds, but slap on a Pep Boys chrome kit and loud ass muffler to make it look and sound fast. Now this isn't the same as some built and powerful gen1 SBC complete with aluminum heads etc to shave some weight and bump the power. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
You are oversimplifying my point, and I think you know it. Any smallblock, carbed, points, whatever, is a step up in performance and reliability, period. And nobody just pulls a bone stock low HP smogger and puts it in a Fiero. At least I haven't seen it. The VW is a definate step baclwards, so why such a silly statement? By your reasoning, why did someone stop at a 505 HP Vette engine when he could have gotten a 638 HP ZR1 engine? Move forward, right? Not everyone needs to sh+t his pants with the footfeed.
You are oversimplifying my point, and I think you know it. Any smallblock, carbed, points, whatever, is a step up in performance and reliability, period. And nobody just pulls a bone stock low HP smogger and puts it in a Fiero. At least I haven't seen it. The VW is a definate step baclwards, so why such a silly statement? By your reasoning, why did someone stop at a 505 HP Vette engine when he could have gotten a 638 HP ZR1 engine? Move forward, right? Not everyone needs to sh+t his pants with the footfeed.
I think YOU have it wrong. I have seen tons of SBC Fieros w/ SBC's that would be lucky to dyno 200whp. Performance? What performance? You slap a boat anchor of cast iron lump that is an old SBC into a Fiero. Most of the time it is thrown in there as cheaply as possible (and at best made to look pretty with a $50 Chrome kit). Rip out any and all emissions, slap in a Flowmaster and BAM! You got a redneck hot rod. "Woooohhhheeee I got a three fiddy fohr bodt main"! Now the Fiero is more complicated due to the adaptation of a SBC. Its an absolute certainty they are going to have starter, cooling, oil and clutch issues. They also become tied to a vendor for the swap specific parts (this usually happens to any kit type conversion). But, maybe you like your water pump sticking thru the pass side sheet metal?
More reliable period? Seriously? Points? LOL Thats funny. I'll stick with my FI car that starts instantly hot or cold, performance remains fairly constant regardless of altitude, throttle response, fuel economy and so on and so on.. you know, why every single MFG on the planet switched to FI back in the dark ages. You seem very attached to the good ol days, you do realize that most family cars of today could stomp even the best muscle cars, right? Most of todays performance cars can embarrass super cars (that cost 10x as much) of just 10yrs ago. Technology is your friend.
LOL you rockin a 486 and connect to the www with dial up & netzero?
Again, I'll say it one more time. It really doesn't matter to me WHAT engine is in a Fiero. But if you are gonna do it, do it right!!!!!!!
------------------ Whodeanie built 1988 Fiero GT, loaded, 14k original miles, F23, built L67 swap, ST2 cam and matching valvetrain, PT67 bb turbo, w2a charge-cooled ----400-500whp?????? More mods when I get it back (interior, suspension, lighting etc). Stay tuned! 1987 Fiero GT Road Racer. 1st documented 3.4TDC swap- built in 1994. 5MT Isuzu, Quaife prototype LSD, HT Tubular A-arms, Fully poly & Heim jointed suspension, Custom 3 way adjustible sway bars, HT Bump Steer kit, Koin's, 320# springs, GA brakes, ZEX N20 and more! Under full restoration. 2007 Toyota Tacoma Double cab Prerunner SR5 Stock, and staying that way. 2009 KTM 250SX motocross bike. Modded and fun as hell!
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 05-21-2012).]
Good luck making a fast 1/4 mile run without making plenty torque.
If this were the case, Ferraris would be slow. The 7 litre ZO6 Vette makes 130 ftlbs more torque than the Ferrari 430, yet they post similar quarter mile trap speeds. Trap speed is a better indicator of applied power than ET.
you do realize that most family cars of today could stomp even the best muscle cars, right? Most of todays performance cars can embarrass super cars (that cost 10x as much) of just 10yrs ago. Technology is your friend.
Today's Honda Accord V6 is as fast (in a straight line) as an early '90's BMW M5.
