I thought you would really like it. You need that engine block heater Dobey posted about. Canada. Brrrr. So, now that you have driven it do you still think you need to go after 500 HP or is where it's at sufficient?
DEF not....the power she has is good enough...i actually almost considered de-tuning it to 200 whp not 310, lol...she's such a beast!
I have an oil pan heater, had her plugged in last night all night. Started just fine like a new car, but it stalls immediately if u dont hold the gas gently for 30 seconds to let her warm up. then she will hold idle on her own. And she warm starts like a brand new car. So the tune needs to be changed.
....Terrifying....just terrifying....she's such a beast! I can't believe it....shop did an awesome job..
I will post some pics and vids tomorrow I think, im unable too today.
Car still needs to be cold start tuned (anyone have advise on that whe its -30 and not plugged in for hours?) She starts np even not plugged in at -23, but needs your foot on the gas for about a min before she's warmed up enough to idle herself. (Is there like a...."if ECU temp is X then idle at 2k....then at a certain temp idle at 1.5...then just idle as per normal?" setting in HP tuners?) My mechanic couldnt get it tuned bcc the AFR gauge displays on the magden computer which takes 30 seconds to boot, by then the readings arnt fresh and he cant tune properly. But he said he ordered another O2 and gauge just to temp install and he will try to fix it that way...
but once she's warm it revs smooth, and goes...holy...
South-bend stage 3 clutch is nice, i dont have to push hard with my left foot or anything, clutch catches high and is grabby...i wish it was a tiny bit less grabby. But i guess ill get used to it.
Also i need to change the muffler...she roars like a beast lol...it is my daily driver, so ill get a quieter muffler, (any recommendations?)
Other than that? Shoot...cars insane...probably twice a fast as my stock 94 supra tt. just scary, i will probably drive her at 30% 90% of the time lol...
So what does everyone wants pics of??? Im not sure what to do haha.
The engine of course ! Car looks great .Cant help with cold starting , never gets below -20 around here , I don't even try to drive my Fiero in the winter , too much snow and slush around here .
Okay, its snowing like crazy tonight, im hoping it stops tomorrow....if so ill shoot some pics of the engine bay.
Also...driving home from work, raced and utterly destroyed this nice audi TT, the look on the guys face was awesome, and i probably used like 40% of what she has, im telling u guys....she's a terrifying beast!!!!!
Car still needs to be cold start tuned (anyone have advise on that whe its -30 and not plugged in for hours?) She starts np even not plugged in at -23, but needs your foot on the gas for about a min before she's warmed up enough to idle herself. (Is there like a...."if ECU temp is X then idle at 2k....then at a certain temp idle at 1.5...then just idle as per normal?" setting in HP tuners?) My mechanic couldnt get it tuned bcc the AFR gauge displays on the magden computer which takes 30 seconds to boot, by then the readings arnt fresh and he cant tune properly. But he said he ordered another O2 and gauge just to temp install and he will try to fix it that way...
Your shop didn't mess with the stock cold start tables, did they?
Pic of the inside of my car idling with the new gauge cluster....Oil pressure, Volts, AFR, Engine coolant temp and MBar (boost) are the gauges currently being displayed, if i click on any of those gauges i have a list of others i can choose from....
Also, the fuel system is a return style now, not a returnless...will that impact it?
If the conversion was done right, that shouldn't have hurt the cold starting... if they modified the tune right. There are lots of ways to modify it wrong and screw things up.
Sorry about the lack of pics guys, the weather has been SINFUL here lately...extreme cold warnings and all that...I have not forgotten!!
Well i know that the shop needs an accurate AFR reading RIGHT on startup to tune the cold start correctly. Its probably starting too lean right away. Im supposed to be taking her back into the shop today as my mechanic got a portable wideband kit to temp throw into the car that will give him a reading as the engine is cranking...my lcd screen with my afr gauge takes 40 seconds to load...hense the need for the 2nd temp kit. Im sure we will get it figured.
Sorry about the lack of pics guys, the weather has been SINFUL here lately...extreme cold warnings and all that...I have not forgotten!!
Well i know that the shop needs an accurate AFR reading RIGHT on startup to tune the cold start correctly. Its probably starting too lean right away. Im supposed to be taking her back into the shop today as my mechanic got a portable wideband kit to temp throw into the car that will give him a reading as the engine is cranking...my lcd screen with my afr gauge takes 40 seconds to load...hense the need for the 2nd temp kit. Im sure we will get it figured.
What he actually needed to do was not mess with the stock cold start enrichment curve.
Ill double check of the MAF, i cant remember. lol.
Sorry again for lack of pics...we have had a bad cold spell here...its FREEZING...i dont wanna stand outside and take pics lol. I promise as soon as it warms up a bit I will
I do not know about the turbo cars or the newer NA direct injected motors but all other ecotecs use a 1 bar MAP sensor .Using a stock ECM with HP tuners , this is not a problem .Once you hit 1 bar , your spark retard and power enrich tables will be maxed out and going above 1 bar does not further affect those parameters .At that point , I am relying on the wastegate to keep boost down where the engine can handle it .A 2 bar MAP gives more adjustability for sure but just not necessary for my setup .As far as the cold starting goes , this car is dealing with pretty extreme low temps right now and the aftermarket ECM might not have any sort of cold start tables? The other thing is the huge injectors on the car .I have not been on the ecotec forum for quite a while but back then tuning with 80 lb injectors was very difficult for the guys trying for 600 hp. I think the 92 lb injectors are way overboard in this case .I have a set of 44 lb injectors sitting in a box for when I want to shoot for 400 HP . And other peoples experience has shown these injectors will be more than adequate .
Yeah, the car runs great except for that first start in the morning on a -30 day...using 60lb injectors. Im taking her back to the shop this Friday for them to tune the cold starting again. They are going to have it for 2 days. Hopefully she will be good!
The Alfa Fab setup is a retuned stock computer, AIUI... which means that they screwed up the cold start enrichment by messing with something they shouldn't have.
The injector size has nothing to do with it. The cold start enrichment is proportional, so if it calls for 10% more fuel, it gets 10% more fuel, whether that's coming from a 15# injector or a 60# injector.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-24-2015).]
The Alfa Fab setup is a retuned stock computer, AIUI... which means that they screwed up the cold start enrichment by messing with something they shouldn't have.
The injector size has nothing to do with it. The cold start enrichment is proportional, so if it calls for 10% more fuel, it gets 10% more fuel, whether that's coming from a 15# injector or a 60# injector.
As long as the injector constant is changed to suit the larger injectors .Pretty sure the stock engine only uses a MAP sensor , not a MAF .
Originally posted by wftb: ]As long as the injector constant is changed to suit the larger injectors .Pretty sure the stock engine only uses a MAP sensor , not a MAF .
AFAICT, stock uses a card MAF located at the exit of the air box. The Alpha Fab standalone LE5 harness also includes the 5-pin connector for the MAF/IAT sensor, it seems: http://www.alphafabindustri...-road-engine-harness
Their Polaris Slingshot Turbo Ecotec 2.4L LE5 engine kit also includes a MAF sensor.
If a MAF sensor was not installed in this build, it seems like that was incorrect.
Some of the new cars that have forced induction are using both. Personally, I prefer tuning with a MAF. I know from experience though that GM likes the MAP sensor for the turbo ecotec's and you have to upgrade to the 2 bar for high boost applications. For the original OP: when tuning from scratch you always build the "non-sexy" normal driving and start up tables first. WOT tables should be the last thing done. At least that is how I was taught. I'm not saying to throw the shop that did your install under the bus, but if it were me I might let them know in a diplomatic way that it's a good idea to do it right the first time to maintain the good customer relationships that lead to the best kind of advertising: word of mouth. Thanks again for sharing your turbo ecotec build and as soon as the weather clears more pics please.
My information is kind of dated I will admit . But it usually is an either/or thing anyways : you have a MAF or a MAP but not both .
In the 80s and early 90s, that was true. I can't think of many GM production vehicles made in the last 10-15 years that didn't have both. With modern OBD-II ECMs, it's possible to use both for more efficiency, as there is much more processing power and data storage space in the ECM.
That's fine. You'll need a 2 bar MAP if you're running about 16-32 PSI of boost. If you run less than 16, then 1 bar is fine, and about 30-46 PSI you'll need 3 bar.
But that doesn't change the fact that you should have the MAF as well, and the cold start/idle tables should be pretty much the same as stock. Cold idle isn't making any boost, so it doesn't matter how many bar your MAP can handle.
My ecotec's wiring came straight out of a 2004 cavalier .Except for adding HP tuners , it is all stock .No MAF , just a MAP .It is definitely considered a drawback having to tune with MAP , MAF is considered better .
Everything I see on Alpha Fab's site indicates their setups use both. And the stock LE5 used both, as far as I can tell from my quick searching on the net.
It's right there in the list on the page you linked to. Either you have a MAF and don't realize it, or your installer left it out and that's causing problems. It sounds like you need to talk to your installer and maybe Alpha Fab to get the issue resolved.
So i talked to Alpha fab, when i bought the kit, the tune and design was based only off a 2 bar map. So my kit did come with everything it needed. There new version of the same kit comes with both the map and maf. So thats what happened there.
I talked to my mechanic, i asked him if we added a maf if that would make the engine run better. He says he would have to re-tune everything but it wouldnt make it run better, the engine is running perfectly except for the cold start which he's fixing this weekend. Once he throws his o2 wideband kit into the car he will have that fixed, he says if i want i can add a MAF later and re-tune the car but i would get the same results as what im getting now for performance and gauge numbers. So we will see what happens after this weekend.
