Originally posted by wftb: i did not take any apart .there are different GM part #s from those years for the crank and rods of the 06 07 years .i did not believe it until it was pointed out to me and various sites said the same thing .
Different part numbers doesn't mean they are forged. GM changes part numbers all the time, even on the exact same parts. It could just mean the parts were produced at a different plant than the previous years. All the pictures of stock LE5 internals that I can find, show cast crank and sintered rods.
[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 07-20-2014).]
Different part numbers doesn't mean they are forged. GM changes part numbers all the time, even on the exact same parts, even. It could just mean the parts were produced at a different plant than the previous years. All the pictures of stock LE5 internals that I can find, show cast crank and sintered rods.
FYI the LE5 had forged connecting rods in 2006 and 2007 but switched to sintered metal in 2008 and later.
There is a load of misinformation in this thread about the LNF engines, much of which Will has corrected. More careful research before repeating erroneous info would be nice.
There is a load of misinformation in this thread about the LNF engines, much of which Will has corrected. More careful research before repeating erroneous info would be nice.
Even if the LE5 did have forged rods for those two years (06/07), the crank was not forged. And GM claims the powered rods are stronger than the forged rods anyway.
if you look at the pic the intercooler is in the left upper corner .there is a small rad that goes in the front of the car that fits in front of the radiator .all that runs to the back of the car are two 1/2" ID hoses .put the pump in the back or the front trunk , use a fan mounted on the front rad and add an ice box if you want .really not that complicated .go to frozenboost.com for kits and info .
So i checked this out, really making me consider running the water/air IC. So if im understanding this correctly.
1) The heat exchange mounts in the front of my car infront of my rad, and it connects to the intercooler in the rear with 1/2'' hoses that can easily be routed under the car correct?
2) With this setup, no boost lag correct? bcc the IC is still in the rear with only the heat exchange in the front?
So i checked this out, really making me consider running the water/air IC. So if im understanding this correctly.
1) The heat exchange mounts in the front of my car infront of my rad, and it connects to the intercooler in the rear with 1/2'' hoses that can easily be routed under the car correct?
2) With this setup, no boost lag correct? bcc the IC is still in the rear with only the heat exchange in the front?
There is a load of misinformation in this thread about the LNF engines, much of which Will has corrected. More careful research before repeating erroneous info would be nice.
Interesting... the 2.4 received the LSJ rods for '06-'07 and something else's rods for '08?
the info about the rods and crank surprised me because even my GM build book contradicts this .but i have the 3rd edition and it reflects info at time of printing i think .anyway i think the original intent of the LE5 was to be the performance version of the ecotec line .it was first introduced as the motor in the solstice and then became the stock motor in the cobalt SS .the LSJ and the LNF were the option motor for the SS cobalts . So the way it was first intended made sense to give the LE5 the better internals . But then the turbo motor became the go to option performance motor in most of the ecotec powered cars and SUV 's and GM got rid of the pricey parts to save money as the LE5 was not an option performance motor anymore .an air to water intercooler does not eliminate turbo lag .it just cools the charge better than air to air intercooling .in my car i get lag when i am too lazy to downshift to the right gear for the revs the motor is turning .if you want to eliminate turbo lag , run an automatic .you cant lug a small displacement four cylinder and expect instant throttle response (even a non turbo 4 ) . an automatic with almost instant downshifts solves that problem .
the info about the rods and crank surprised me because even my GM build book contradicts this .but i have the 3rd edition and it reflects info at time of printing i think .
It's probably referencing the 2nd design rods then. Looking up the part # for the 1st design rods on several sites just says "discontinued" but no date is specified when the discontinuation occurred. If it happened in 07 at some time, it's likely that maybe 07 LE5 engines could have either the forged or sintered rods. Perhaps the reference available for the 07 engine showed sintered rods, when the third edition was updated. If there's a newer edition of the book, maybe it's been corrected? But unless you find someone with NOS 1st design rods sitting around, if you want to buy a new OEM set, you're going to get the sintered rods instead of the forged, since the 1st design has been discontinued.
- Engine in - ECU Mounted and wired - Engine wired up! - New DBW Gas Pedal Mounted no issues (I was worried about that) - Battery mounted upfront - Coolant lines hooked up. - New high HP fuel pump installed (at the part now where gas tank just needs to be put back in)
That’s where we are, next on the list…
- Hook up fuel lines - Mount intercooler to the FRONT OF THE CAR! YES! THE FRONT! Im so happy. I wanted it up front for looks, but was worried about turbo lag? Since engine is in the back and intercooler is up front? But he’s like “no…the lag would be like half a second to 4/3 of a second, which you would want for traction. apperantly you get WAY better performance out of a front mounted intercooler than a rear mounted one, the air is much cooler and you more HP. Plus it looks sick. So im happy about that. - Get car running (by this Friday) - Install Greddy exhaust - Dyno - DONE!
2.0 and 2.2 are the same block (86mm bore) but the 2.0 has piston squirters. You can add them to other blocks but the cost doesn't make it worth it normally when building the blocks. Better to just start with a 2.0 block. All the ZZP 86mm blocks come with piston squirters.
Being that the parts are interchangeable it doesn't make sense when building a 2.2, to stay at 2.2 liters. You’re better off with a 2.4 block (88mm bore) or using 2.0 parts.
Assuming you have the right year parts, you can bolt any head on any block w/o any issue. The flywheels and cranks and balancers, everything interchanges. The 2.2 and 2.4 cranks are cast with 6 flywheel bolts. They use the same flywheel and we make a 9.5” flywheel with 6 bolts so that you can use those cranks with the larger 2.0 clutches.
Otherwise for strength in boosted applications, you want a 2.0 crank as it is the only forged crank.
You can use a 2.4 block with a 2.0 crank to achieve 2.1 liters. Then you have the strength with more displacement. Each route has some pros and cons depending what you’re doing.
There are a few styles of reluctor wheels on the crankshafts and when changing motors, sometimes this needs to be addressed. The newer 2.2's, all 2.4's and all turbo 2.0's have the same crank position sensors and the reluctor wheels are all clocked the same. The LSJ is a gen 1 motor and the reluctor wheel is clocked differently than on Gen 2 & 3 motors. The 2.4 crank uses a smaller reluctor wheel so that the piston and rods clear it but the function and pickup is essentially the same. While all of this sounds complicated and can cause serious issues if done wrong, it's not actually a difficult problem to address. We recommend working with ZZP so that we can set you up properly for what you are trying to do. As long as we know what motor you are replacing or what vehicle you have, it's very easy for us to give you the right parts.
Great build so far. I think when you get this together and drive it you will probably stop worrying about trying to get to 500+ HP. These engines make so much low end TQ that even with the mid engine layout going for you it is still going to be a hand full at only 350HP you will probably start out at. It's going to be hard to keep the drive train together if you go much past that. Most high output turbo ecotec's make 20-50 TQ more than HP and the combination of twin scroll turbos mounted directly to the exhaust manifold combined with VVT makes for little to no lag and peak TQ at 2000 or so rpm's depending on what size turbo you run. I have a question for you on your exhaust though. Are you planning on running a CAT right off the turbo and then dumping straight out the back with no muffler (letting the turbo act as the muffler)?
I tried running a turbo then cat no muffler setup and it was way to noisy for me .It works on remote turbo mount vettes and camaros but they have the benefit of long pipes to the turbos .With a fiero ecotec , the exhaust goes a very short distance to the back of the car .It would be a lot easier to plumb everything if ecotecs exhausted out the front like stock fiero motors did .
I tried running a turbo then cat no muffler setup and it was way to noisy for me .It works on remote turbo mount vettes and camaros but they have the benefit of long pipes to the turbos .With a fiero ecotec , the exhaust goes a very short distance to the back of the car .It would be a lot easier to plumb everything if ecotecs exhausted out the front like stock fiero motors did .
I would go with a Supertrap muffler then. I was curious as to how loud it would be though. I'm thinking about doing one of these down the road...
I wish. I work for Uncle Sam in the "bringing bad things to bad people boot to arse" department I spent a lot of time on their site researching and have bought stuff from them in the past for my Cobalt and HHR. They are a great resource for Ecotec and 3800's.
In the far future if my LE5 needs an overhaul or God forbid something happens to it, i'll consider getting there racing block at 2.0, 2.1 or 2.4 with port injection, not DI.and use that block to build on.But for now, im very confident my current block will hold up just fine for a long time.
In the far future if my LE5 needs an overhaul or God forbid something happens to it, i'll consider getting there racing block at 2.0, 2.1 or 2.4 with port injection, not DI.and use that block to build on.But for now, im very confident my current block will hold up just fine for a long time.
As long as you don't get crazy with the boost I think you will be fine and like I posted before, You probably will be so satisfied with it at 15-18 psi that you will not want to go higher anyways. It's hard to describe the power delivery of these engines to folks that have not driven one. If you have the turbo sized properly and everything else dialed in properly the TQ is going to hit fast and hard, even more so than a 3800S/C setup. Just keep an eye on the drivetrain, that is most likely where the problems will happen if they happen at all...
One other thing that is factoring in my decision to go LNF when the time comes is knowing I can have the launch control and "no lift shift" capabilities. Not sure if you thought about that or if it would be possible to have on an LE5. But I would recommend you look into it.
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 10-27-2014).]
I actually have looked into launch control a long time ago since the GTR came out with it. There are a few different ways to make that work with almost any engine. But what is this "no lift shift" thing u mentioned???
and yeah im sticking to about 15 lbs boost. 300-350 hp is good enough for me.
[This message has been edited by 4thfiero (edited 10-27-2014).]
I actually have looked into launch control a long time ago since the GTR came out with it. There are a few different ways to make that work with almost any engine. But what is this "no lift shift" thing u mentioned???
and yeah im sticking to about 15 lbs boost. 300-350 hp is good enough for me.
"No lift shift" is a feature on newer electronic throttle body engines with manual transmissions where the ECU adjusts the engine RPM to rev match when shifting, without needing to lift your foot off the gas pedal. You can keep the pedal on the floor and just shift, and the ECU will do the right thing.
Update: My car will probably need auto meter gauges. The stock speedo, tach and all that probably wont work with the new engine.
Stock gauges will work fine with buffering circuits. Dakota Digital has a circuit used by the V8Archie kit for the LS3 swaps, which should work well for the Ecotec too, if you don't want to try to figure out how to build your own circuit.
page 12 has the info on how to make your tach work properly after switching to an engine with a different cylinder count. I had to do this with my N* to make the tach read right. It was not too bad.
hey! this is some good knowledge here. Where does one get these buffering circuits????? Any idea how many i would need? I know nothing about this process. What do you suggest i do/email my mechanic to "show" him HEY! you can use the stock guages!!!
Also, is there a way to use the stock gauges but "update" my speedo to go past 180kph, like maybe 200-300kph, can that be programmed and where can i find a stock speedo but higher numbers for the Fiero.
Lastly. Would u guys happen to know if there is an easy/good way so that the check engine light will still work on my dash if something goes wrong with my ecotec??? I was wondering about that.
hey! this is some good knowledge here. Where does one get these buffering circuits????? Any idea how many i would need? I know nothing about this process. What do you suggest i do/email my mechanic to "show" him HEY! you can use the stock guages!!!
Also, is there a way to use the stock gauges but "update" my speedo to go past 180kph, like maybe 200-300kph, can that be programmed and where can i find a stock speedo but higher numbers for the Fiero.
Again thats pretty cool, haha, but thats too new age for my car (at least for my car) Im already modding it with an 8'' LCD monitor where the stock Fiero volt and oil pressure gauges go to display a magden gauge cluster. But for my dash and th speedo. I was thinking more like this
hey! this is some good knowledge here. Where does one get these buffering circuits????? Any idea how many i would need? I know nothing about this process. What do you suggest i do/email my mechanic to "show" him HEY! you can use the stock guages!!!
Also, is there a way to use the stock gauges but "update" my speedo to go past 180kph, like maybe 200-300kph, can that be programmed and where can i find a stock speedo but higher numbers for the Fiero.
Lastly. Would u guys happen to know if there is an easy/good way so that the check engine light will still work on my dash if something goes wrong with my ecotec??? I was wondering about that.
http://www.dakotadigital.co...mode=prod/prd126.htm Should help with the speedo. They also have a a similar module for the tach signal. There should be signals coming out of the ECM for both, or you might be able to tap into the VSS directly and have it feed the ECM and the gauge.
I wouldn't bother with changing the speedometer to read that high. Without serious suspension and aero work, it's not really safe to be taking a Fiero to much over 200 km/h. You could possibly get a new face made that reads higher than that, but you need to make sure the odometer and speedo both read correctly, which can be a little difficult to do if the needle positioning doesn't match stock.
For the check engine light, it's just a matter of wiring it up. Typically it's just a wire going to the ECM which gets pulled to ground. All you need to do is verify which pin at the ECM does that, and that it pulls to ground (you don't want to have the other end of the wire on +12v if it's not).
Awesome! Thanks for that information. I'll take that to my mechanic!
Yeah i did modify the aero of the car with a new body kit and spoiler for the higher speeds. I havn't done the suspension yet but that is on the list, i was hoping to do full coilover mod, tubular suspension with the koni red kit in the rear and QA1 coilover for the front. Im also still deciding on the wheels/offset/width of the Fiero. I really want Watanabe wheels with a BIT of a deep dish look. Or get custom suspension made (custom offset) by arrat motorsports with the offset i need to accommodate the new wheels. Ialready emailed them about it, they can make it. But of course $$$$...I will probably wait on that. I need more information to move forward.
But the coil over kit will def happen in the near future. Im hoping for the new wheels and suspension next summer.
Also here is a pic of my Fiero...Custom front bumper, the intercooler and black mesh are obv not installed yet. But you get the Idea...Can't see the raised stock spoiler or RX7 tail lights either, i dont have pics yet
I wouldn't bother with changing the speedometer to read that high. Without serious suspension and aero work, it's not really safe to be taking a Fiero to much over 200 km/h.
Is the heat extractor built into the hood functional? It looks like it is too far back on the hood from your pic and its functionality is probably the most important factor in giving you the down force you need to reach the speeds you are talking about semi-safely...
Is the heat extractor built into the hood functional? It looks like it is too far back on the hood from your pic and its functionality is probably the most important factor in giving you the down force you need to reach the speeds you are talking about semi-safely...
Unless the plastic pan for the spare tire was removed, I'd guess not. That vent is pretty far back indeed. But even with a proper functioning hood vent, it's not enough for a 200 MPH (300 km/h) Fiero. Just look at all the aero work done on the C6 ZR1 and C7 Z06. A lot of little things all over the car to improve stability and reduce drag. The rear hatch on the Corvette helps a lot at high speed.
I know guys i know, Im not done the aero work yet. Thats just a pic to show whats its mainly gonna look like, I still have to install the front spoiler and other stuff that will help take her too 300kph, some stuff i probably dont know yet, thats just a future dream. the hood vent IS functional, it is far back but has a....i dont know what u would call it...a tube or plastic piece that is wide but skinny that goes past the front bulkhead and into the radiator area to let out heat. I used to have fire bird vents in between the headlights for the same purpose, but i removed them for this one. Im taking the design off what i think is really cool looking rx7 and doing my best to make it work for a Fiero.
Of course the 200mph/300kph dream is out there, my main concern right now is getting her running and driving...but since im dealing with the Speedo stuff now, i thought...why not address this now so i dont have too later. And if i dont get her prepped for 300 kph? whatever, i still got a cool speedo.
I don't think he is going for that much speed (200mph). For that much speed you would need a chassis stretch to add about a foot of wheel space. I was thinking he was going for 130-140 mph. Having spent six years in Germany blasting down the autobahn at up to 160 mph, I can tell you that in most every car at 120 mph is where the fun begins and you start feeling the affects of the atmosphere. You can really start to tell how well a cars aerodynamics are at speeds above 120 mph. My Cobalt SS was so much smoother than my Mustang GT. The atmospheric buffering was a lot worse in the Mustang.
Well, I was writing this as he posted that last post. I guess he is going for "Ludicrous Speed"
[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 10-29-2014).]
In a perfect world, i would like to take my car to the Wangan Highway in Japan if only once and try for 300kph, that probably wont happen, but hey? i can dream right?
I spent a lot of time on their site researching and have bought stuff from them in the past for my Cobalt and HHR. They are a great resource for Ecotec and 3800's.
That is some really good advice...
