Why would I be crying about something that's going exactly how I want it?
You wanted to be "exploited" for decades by every country on the planet?
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I also don't understand at all the whole "projection" thing you keep stating that everyone here but you is somehow suffering from.
I'm not at all surprised you don't understand it. That's just another tell-tale sign. The "whole projection thing" was not directed at "everyone here".
You wanted to be "exploited" for decades by every country on the planet?
Why do you do this? Is it just to be annoying? Because if that's it, OK, I can handle it. Otherwise I really don't know if you have a reading comprehension problem... ?
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I'm not at all surprised you don't understand it. That's just another tell-tale sign. The "whole projection thing" was not directed at "everyone here".
Ok, I'll bite, can you explain to me exactly what it is that I'm "projecting?"
Originally posted by Patrick: Let's see what comes out in the wash when Trump actually takes power. Let's see if all those 25% tariffs kick in on everything imported from Canada.
I haven't paid much attention to what Canada import tariff is now. Anyone know? Didn't appear to me then or now DJT is bluffing.
Originally posted by blackrams: I haven't paid much attention to what Canada import tariff is now. Anyone know? Didn't appear to me then or now DJT is bluffing.
Rams
35%.
quote
U.S. dollar rises as Canadian dollar drops
The U.S. dollar has hit its highest level in two months, with the dollar index rising by 0.1 percent on Friday morning.
Traders could be speculating that Trump’s sweeping tariff rollout could be inflationary, pushing up consumer prices and making it more difficult for the U.S. Federal Reserve to cut interest rates.
Meanwhile, the Canadian dollar has slumped to a 10-week low against its U.S. counterpart after Trump announced a 35 percent levy for Canada.
The tariff announcement increases the risk of more interest-rate cuts by the Bank of Canada, ING’s Francesco Pesole told the Wall Street Journal.
I guess Canadian leadership and others should have taken DJT seriously.................. Thankfully, some nations have seen the light and are attempting to level the playing field. I was just curious, this tariff thing has had a minor effect on the US as far as I can see. Some folks choose to go ahead and buy foreign goods and that's OK, their decision. I guess I could have researched this but, had more important things to do this morning.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-01-2025).]
I do sincerely hope this situation gets resolved soon. There's little doubt (I think) eventually this could affect inflation on our side of the border. But getting a level playing field is a justifiable goal. It's reported that Mexico just got a 90 day extension after a call from the Mexican President to DJT. Would have liked to heard that conversation to know what earned Mexico that 90 days. Obviously, there's a lot more going on within these discussions than I know about.
It's reported that Mexico just got a 90 day extension after a call from the Mexican President to DJT. Would have liked to heard that conversation to know what earned Mexico that 90 days.
I'm just guessing here, as I haven't heard anything official... but I suspect the reason why Canada didn't get the same 90 day extension, is that the Canadian government gave Trump a big FU by crossing him and siding with various European nations in their stand regarding the Palestinian situation.
Perhaps it wasn't the best move short-term in regards to tariff talks, but it's possible the Canadian government wishes to indicate to Trump that he doesn't get to call all the shots... despite what he likes to believe. Anyway, these discussions are far from over.
I'm just guessing here, as I haven't heard anything official... but I suspect the reason why Canada didn't get the same 90 day extension, is that the Canadian government gave Trump a big FU by crossing him and siding with various European nations in their stand regarding the Palestinian situation.
Perhaps it wasn't the best move short-term in regards to tariff talks, but it's possible the Canadian government wishes to indicate to Trump that he doesn't get to call all the shots... despite what he likes to believe. Anyway, these discussions are far from over.
I suppose anything is possible................................
The courts are considering whether they're even legal under U.S. law, and the American economy has yet to feel the pain of higher prices
Tracy Moran Updated Sun, August 3, 2025 at 11:27 a.m. PDT
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Time’s up. On Friday, U.S. President Donald Trump raised the tariff rate on Canadian goods not covered under the Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) from 25 to 35 per cent, saying they “have to pay a fair rate.” The White House claims it’s because of Canada’s failure to curb the “ongoing flood of fentanyl and other illicit drugs.” U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) data, however, show that fentanyl seizures from Canada make up less than 0.1 per cent of total U.S. seizures of the drug; most smuggling comes across the Mexican border.
But the future of Trump’s policy also rests on shaky ground, and the tariffs could come crashing down even if Canada can’t reach a deal at some point. Imposed through a controversially declared “national emergency” under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), the tariffs come with essentially three paths for relief to Canadian exporters and their American customers: the courts and the economy.
And there’s always the wildcard: that the president changes his mind.
Without relying on that, National Post looks at two very possible ways out of all this:
The courts:
There is a big question hanging over whether Trump’s tariffs are even legal under the U.S. Constitution, which gives Congress powers over trade. Trump has bypassed that by claiming he’s using presidential IEEPA emergency powers.
On Thursday, the Washington, D.C.-based Federal Circuit Court of Appeals convened an en banc hearing for oral arguments in challenges to Trump’s use of IEEPA. The 11 judges questioned whether the law meant for sanctioning adversaries or freezing assets during emergencies grants Trump the power to impose tariffs, with one judge noting, “IEEPA doesn’t even mention the word ‘tariffs.’” The White House, meanwhile, says the law grants the president “broad and flexible” emergency powers, including the ability to regulate imports.
“Based on the tenor and questions of the arguments, it appears that the challengers have the better odds of prevailing,” Thomas Berry, the CATO Institute’s director of the Robert A. Levy Center for Constitutional Studies, said in a statement. “Several judges peppered the government’s attorney with skeptical questions about why a broad term in IEEPA like ‘regulate importation’ should be read to allow the president to unilaterally impose tariffs.”
Trump’s lawyers claim his executive order provides the justifications for the tariffs — in Canada’s case, fentanyl. But Berry said “those justifications would not matter if IEEPA simply does not authorize tariffs in the first place. That is the cleanest and simplest way to resolve this case, and it appears that the Federal Circuit may be leaning toward that result.”
A decision is expected this month, and if it’s a resounding push back from the judges’ panel, said Andrew Hale, a senior policy analyst at Heritage Foundation, the Supreme Court may not even take up the case. If so, he says, “these Liberation Day tariffs and everything that’s been imposed under emergency legislation, IEEPA, that all evaporates.”
At that point, the White House would not be able to declare across-the-board tariffs against countries. Instead, it would have to rely on laws allowing tariffs to be imposed on specific products that are found to threaten U.S. national security, like those currently imposed on Canadian steel and lumber.
The economy:
The other path to tariff relief is through economic pressure. If Americans start to see higher prices and economic uncertainty, and push back at the ballot box — or threaten to do so — it could force Trump to reverse course.
The most recent figures show that U.S. inflation, based on the Consumer Price Index, hit around 2.7 per cent in July. That’s a slight rise, fuelled by rising prices for food, transportation and used cars. But it’s still close to the Federal Reserve target of two per cent.
U.S. unemployment rose slightly to 4.2 per cent in July, while far fewer jobs were created than expected, and consumer confidence rose two points but is still several points lower than it was in January.
Overall, most economists agree that risks of a U.S. recession over the next 12 months are relatively low, but skepticism over growth remains high. “Our outlook is for slower growth in the U.S., but no recession,” said Gus Faucher, chief economist of The PNC Financial Services Group. He notes that the “tariffs are going to be a drag” because they are a tax increase on imports.
Economists have said price inflation from tariffs is not yet being felt in the U.S. but believe it’s inevitable. “Trump’s tariff madness adds a great deal to the risks of a recession,” said Steven Hanke, professor of applied economics at Johns Hopkins University who served on President Ronald Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisors.
“With tariffs, Americans are going to be paying a big new beautiful sales tax on goods and services imported into the U.S., and taxes slow things down. Taxes don’t stimulate.”
It is surprising that higher U.S. prices haven’t happened yet, said Jonathan Gruber, chairman of the economics department at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. But he explained that it’s likely a reflection of the duration of contracts and the fact that import sellers haven’t yet put up prices — “because they were hoping it wouldn’t be real, like they’d wake up from this nightmare.”
“I think we start to see the effect on prices by the end of the year,” said Gruber.
The trouble for Canada, however, is that the Canadian economy is starting from a much weaker position, with higher unemployment, lower consumer confidence, and a slowing GDP, on top of the trade tensions. So, trying to wait things out for the U.S. to feel the pinch will be even more painful for Canadians. And any American downturn will also reverberate north.
“As Uncle Sam goes, so goes Canada,” said Hanke.
Gruber agrees with that, but with a caveat. “It’s all bad in the short run and good in the long run,” he says. He believes the U.S. is “weak and getting weaker” and that Canada should start taking advantage of how the U.S. is making opportunities for other countries to invest in themselves.
“We’re not investing in our future. We’re killing our education. We’re killing our research. We’re not allowing in immigrants,” he said, explaining the weakening of the U.S. economy. “We’re basically setting the stage for long-run economic slower growth.”
Meanwhile, China is doubling down on investment, research and other longer-term policies.
“Canada and other countries need to do the same,” Gruber said.
And as for when a backlash could lead to a reversal in the U.S., Gruber points to two factors.
“It’s got to be high inflation, and Trump’s opponents need to make sure that the voters understand that’s Trump’s fault.”
I wouldn't begin to "guess" what the courts may decide (especially if the suing party went "Judge Shopping" but, my guess is that precedents of other Presidents doing similar things with tariffs would also make a difference when this case eventually gets to SCOTUS.
While the tariffs do seem extreme, all that was ever sought was a level playing field. Well, that and border security issues. Some country's refuse to work with President DJT. Guess we'll see how this comes out.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-04-2025).]
I wouldn't begin to "guess" what the courts may decide (especially if the suing party went "Judge Shopping")...
What, if any evidence is there of that occurring?
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
...all that was ever sought was a level playing field.
You don't know for a fact that it wasn't already
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Well, that and border security issues.
Fentanyl seizures from Canada make up less than 0.1 per cent of total U.S. seizures of the drug... so yeah, the drugs are just pouring across the border from Canada.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Some country's refuse to work with President DJT.
Pretty difficult to "work with" someone who changes their mind daily, if not hourly!
I suspect more and more Americans are beginning to realize what a sham the reasons for these tariffs are, at least in regards to the ones levied against Canada... and perhaps to most/all of the tariffs levied worldwide.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-04-2025).]
I don't know if that happened in this instance, but it's been pretty common the past 6 months.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I suspect more and more Americans are beginning to realize what a sham the reasons for these tariffs are, at least in regards to the ones levied against Canada... and perhaps to most/all of the tariffs levied worldwide.
Most people don't really talk about this stuff, and it's not really affecting people here in the US yet.
I expect it will eventually if some countries don't wish to participate but, then again, who really NEEDS the products being produced by countries preferring to "Stick to their guns". So far, I'm finding almost everything I NEED produced in the USA. That could change but, we'll have to see. What I will say is that there is very little chance I'll be buying anything from some countries even if I do need it.
Just curious, how's this tariff situation affecting the average Canadian?
...then again, who really NEEDS the products being produced by countries preferring to "Stick to their guns".
You may be in for a rude awakening. Not everything you "need" is a finished "product". There's a reason why the US has had to import certain things.
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
Just curious, how's this tariff situation affecting the average Canadian?
I'm retired, so I'm not directly involved with anything being shipped across the border to the States. In regards to what I buy, (mostly groceries), all products on the grocers shelf are now identified as to what's being affected by the counter-tariffs (US sourced goods)... and by and large, most Canadians, including myself, are by-passing them.
"Buy Canadian" is heavily promoted... but where not applicable (such as southern grown fruits, ie oranges), products are being brought in from countries such as Mexico etc instead of places such as California and/or Florida.
I expect it will eventually if some countries don't wish to participate but, then again, who really NEEDS the products being produced by countries preferring to "Stick to their guns". So far, I'm finding almost everything I NEED produced in the USA. That could change but, we'll have to see. What I will say is that there is very little chance I'll be buying anything from some countries even if I do need it.
Just curious, how's this tariff situation affecting the average Canadian?
Rams
Out of curiosity Rams, do you shop at Walmart, Target, Roses, etc.? While in the U.S. for the past 3 weeks, I did and I noted that probably 65-70% of all items were manufactured outside of the U.S. The products I looked at ranged from groceries to building supplies. What will happen when those items on the shelf are restocked. I'm guessing the prices will increase.
BTW, I usually stock up on some things like jeans, sneakers, socks, etc., because in the past I could save a bit in real terms (correcting for F/X rates) over buying in Australia. I found this time some of the things I looked to purchase this year were about the same or a tad more in real terms that the cost of those items in Australia. I'm also finding that ordering things from the U.S. and having them shipped to Australia is no longer less expensive than buying here. Our GST has not increased and the shipping rates are the same so the only thing I can attribute this to is that the cost of the items in the U.S. has increased.
Out of curiosity Rams, do you shop at Walmart, Target, Roses, etc.? While in the U.S. for the past 3 weeks, I did and I noted that probably 65-70% of all items were manufactured outside of the U.S. The products I looked at ranged from groceries to building supplies. What will happen when those items on the shelf are restocked. I'm guessing the prices will increase. .
I won't suggest my wife doesn't shop Walmart from time to time but, she prefers other places/stores. I avoid Walmart like it's Covid Central. But, being retired (like Patrick), I can be selective about what I buy and where it comes from. In another thread, I discussed the two-post lift I recently purchased, it had to be made in the USA or, I wasn't going to buy it. Admittedly, I don't know where the steel was produced. Probably China............. But, it was built by US workers in the US.
I agree, the cost of much is going to go up. I guess that's the price of trying to level the playing field. It'll be worth it in the long run.
Wait! You were in the US for three whole weeks and didn't call or come by for a visit?...................... Hmmmm.........
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-04-2025).]
Originally posted by Patrick: You may be in for a rude awakening. Not everything you "need" is a finished "product". There's a reason why the US has had to import certain things.
I'm retired, so I'm not directly involved with anything being shipped across the border to the States. In regards to what I buy, (mostly groceries), all products on the grocers shelf are now identified as to what's being affected by the counter-tariffs (US sourced goods)... and by and large, most Canadians, including myself, are by-passing them.
"Buy Canadian" is heavily promoted... but where not applicable (such as southern grown fruits, ie oranges), products are being brought in from countries such as Mexico etc instead of places such as California and/or Florida.
Patrick, What you've stated, is true everywhere. Canada, Australia, the US, Mexico, everywhere. Give us a level playing field and we'll all be better off. Well, maybe not the countries that have been leaching off the US for decades but, things will eventually improve.
Give us a level playing field and we'll all be better off.
As I've previously implied, don't believe everything you're being told about the field not already being mostly "level". There's give and take with every trade agreement. I'm not going to believe for half a second that every American free trade negotiator in the past hundred years has been totally incompetent.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-05-2025).]
As I've previous implied, don't believe everything you're being told about the field not already being mostly "level". There's give and take with every trade agreement. I'm not going to believe for half a second that every American free trade negotiator in the past hundred years has been totally incompetent.
So, you're saying US negotiators agreed to the Canadian tariffs placed on US goods and services? Or, did Canada just enact those tariffs all on their own? We're very unlikely to agree on much Patrick. I distinct remember you stating that "Arguing is half the fun". I'm tired of it.
And the rest of the world (along with half the US) is getting "tired" of Donald Trump just making up stuff and tweeting it out in the middle of the night for his supporters to swallow hook, line and sinker.
If Trump's antics only affected the US, it wouldn't be such a cluster****. Unfortunately, he's made it his mission to try and be everyone's "Boss". The pushback is just beginning.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 08-05-2025).]
Wait! You were in the US for three whole weeks and didn't call or come by for a visit?...................... Hmmmm.........
Rams, LOL….let’s see.. spend a week going to western TN from eastern NC or spend a week in North Myrtle Beach, SC with my bride? Tough choice! LOL
Seriously, I did spend some time at the beach and a lot of time with the family. (Mom is 93 and gasp, a liberal Democrat. She’ll probably outlive me and she WILL vote in the next presidential election.)
[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 08-05-2025).]
I'm retired, so I'm not directly involved with anything being shipped across the border to the States. In regards to what I buy, (mostly groceries), all products on the grocers shelf are now identified as to what's being affected by the counter-tariffs (US sourced goods)... and by and large, most Canadians, including myself, are by-passing them.
"Buy Canadian" is heavily promoted... but where not applicable (such as southern grown fruits, ie oranges), products are being brought in from countries such as Mexico etc instead of places such as California and/or Florida.
I wanted to respond to this specifically, in particular the comment about oranges and Florida.
Florida used to be a primary producer of oranges. The number of orange groves we had numbered in the 1000s... we shipped (internationally and domestically) more than 800 million pounds of oranges just 25 years ago. A couple of things happened, which I'll go into, but as of today, Florida's production of oranges have decreased 92% since 2000. The primary reason has been as a result of unfair trade practices.
The United States now imports 3 times more oranges from Mexico than it gets from Florida. Most other countries import from South East Asia and China. Which brings me to the next topic... Florida had been hit several times with agricultural espionage. The citrus beetle is a pest that's commonly found in China, and... I'll say this carefully, it was determined that it was an intentional release of the citrus beetle in Florida by Chinese operatives. I'm relaying what's been released in FOIA documents a couple of years ago.
There's also been speculation that China also caused the Citrus cancker to Florida... but I've personally never seen any intel on this, and there's no proof of it. On an aside, there's also evidence that China brought the monster hornet to the United States several years ago, as they were all first discovered within a few miles of 5 major US ports (Florida, California, Virginia, Washington, etc.).
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that regardless of whether you buy Florida oranges or not, the biggest harm to Florida's orange production was a direct result of existing trade policies that allowed Florida to be taken advantage of, which is exactly what we're trying to solve here with tariffs.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that regardless of whether you buy Florida oranges or not, the biggest harm to Florida's orange production was a direct result of existing trade policies that allowed Florida to be taken advantage of, which is exactly what we're trying to solve here with tariffs.
And here I was thinking that the reason Florida is no longer a major Orange producer is because the cost of producing oranges was outweighed by the money that citrus farmers could get from pulling out the citrus trees and selling the land to developers to cut up into quarter-acre plots to build houses for the retirees moving to paradise. Silly me.
When ICE is done, there'll be nobody left in the US willing to pick the crops anyway.
That’s okay, Patrick. Australia will be able to fill in the citrus gap. . We produce a lot of citrus and export it to countries’ consumers in the northern hemisphere, including the USA. Of course, some countries will be paying more for some unknown reason😄
BTW, Australia used to buy citrus and other fruits and veg from the USA and Mexico in our off-season. Not sure that will continue. I’m not seeing much produce with “Grown in the USA” stickers any more.
[This message has been edited by Mike in Sydney (edited 08-06-2025).]
And here I was thinking that the reason Florida is no longer a major Orange producer is because the cost of producing oranges was outweighed by the money that citrus farmers could get from pulling out the citrus trees and selling the land to developers to cut up into quarter-acre plots to build houses for the retirees moving to paradise. Silly me.
I realize you're saying that sarcastically... but that is ABSOLUTELY not the case at all. There are thousands and thousands of acres in Central Florida of abandoned citrus tree farms. Florida is very urban... 99% of the population lives within five major cities... Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, West Palm, and Tampa. 30% of the state is effectively swamp land, and the rest is basically undeveloped.
I realize you're saying that sarcastically... but that is ABSOLUTELY not the case at all. There are thousands and thousands of acres in Central Florida of abandoned citrus tree farms. Florida is very urban... 99% of the population lives within five major cities... Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, West Palm, and Tampa. 30% of the state is effectively swamp land, and the rest is basically undeveloped.
So, let me get this straight. You’re saying that no citrus tree farms have been sold to developers? Hmmmm, who knew?
So, let me get this straight. You’re saying that no citrus tree farms have been sold to developers? Hmmmm, who knew?
BTW, we have a bridge in Sydney….
Oh come on Mike, that's not what he said or implied, I know it, you know it and so do most of the folks who read his posting. Surely things aren't so bad you folks need to sell that bridge............ Put up some toll booths.
So, let me get this straight. You’re saying that no citrus tree farms have been sold to developers? Hmmmm, who knew?
BTW, we have a bridge in Sydney….
I think you're enormously off base here. Property values have skyrocketed in South Florida... which is around Fort Lauderdale and Miami. That's where the land has been snapped up.
The orange groves, the sugar cane fields, etc., that's all in central Florida. It's all still there... half of it is abandoned and overgrown.
If your point is that you think citrus farms have reduced in any significant numbers at all because of people selling off property for housing development, then no... you would be TOTALLY incorrect. Florida is a massive state. All the orange groves and farmland resides in central Florida where there is almost nothing. From Ocala, to North-West Lauderdale, you have hundreds and hundreds of miles of basically nothing. You have lake Okeechobee, and a couple of small towns along route 27, but otherwise open land and thousands of acres of abandoned orange groves.
Yes... some of the land is being sold off and turned into housing... but it's because they literally don't know what else to do with it, and the farms had already been abandoned for years. I have 2.5 acres of land that was once a bombing range for WW2, then a cow pasture for McAurthur Dairy Company, and then used as an orange grove. It's by a canal and there are at least a dozen orange trees left which still grow oranges all on their own, which I do nothing with... and then 100 banana trees along the shore of the canal. I've been there twice... basically just property I pay the taxes on and will eventually sell.
Oh come on Mike, that's not what he said or implied, I know it, you know it and so do most of the folks who read his posting. Surely things aren't so bad you folks need to sell that bridge............ Put up some toll booths.
Rams
Yeah, I know. LoL. But like Linda Ronstadt sings, its so easy, so dog-gone easy…
BTW, we have electronic tolls on the bridge. It’s about $3 USD during peak times and $2.20 USDin off peak times. Currently, you pay travelling north to south and free passage for the return trip.
But, it was built by US workers in the US.
.
