I'm not entirely sure the point you were making with some of that. I agree that unions are biased (police unions double so), but is your contention that the findings of assaults were doctored or made up? The Justice Department backs up the numbers that are being claimed as well.
Not to involve myself in the discussion between you and Cliff but, I'm quite sure that every officer was encouraged to report any thing that could be construed as an injury even it was a blisters on their feet from running. I'm very skeptical of the numbers reported. That's not to suggest that all were faked. But, trusting our alphabet agencies has long since past.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. . You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
Originally posted by NewDustin: I'm not entirely sure the point you were making with some of that. I agree that unions are biased (police unions double so), but is your contention that the findings of assaults were doctored or made up?
The findings of the assaults. I don't care who anybody is but that's some funny zhit right there. Let me be generous. Exaggerated.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: The Justice Department backs up the numbers that are being claimed as well.
I am trying to stave off a heart attack so as to reply to you. Did I hear you right ? The Biden Justice Department ? The same Justice Department who investigated parents at school PTA meetings ? The same Justice Department which prosecuted an abortion protester standing outside a Planned Parenthood abortion center. The same Justice Department which went after a cake maker whose religious beliefs would not allow her to make a wedding cake for a queer couple ? The same Justice Department who practiced lawfare against Biden's political challenger ? The same Justice Department who slow walked Biden's son Hunter's felony cases ?
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Originally posted by NewDustin: Hundreds of rioters have already been found guilty of assaulting police officers.
Yawn,
Have you read anything about exculpatory evidence being withheld ? Most pled guilty to keep the Biden Justice Department from pursuing over charged crimes and not many had the deep pockets for legal representation as did the Justice Department with our money.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: The rest of your post seems to be issues you take with what the union rep said unrelated to the number of officers injured, which is what I cited them for. The assaults include stabbings, tazings, and beatings, and the resulting injuries included heart attacks, tbi, at least one lost eye, and multiple career-ending injuries. Again...are you disagreeing that these things happened, or that they were as bad as the videos, convictions, investigations, first-hand accounts, planning communications, etc show them to be?
I am skeptical. I have seen videos and mayhem did happen.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: I didn't send you after any rabbits. I posted reasonable sources for the information I was claiming and you dug into everything you might disagree with that one source from one article said...and not even on factual grounds at that.
As I said, quite a bipartisan source,
I will look at your other links. Might I suggest a more balance news intelligence diet ?
Edit: If Don Lemon's face offends you, skip his commentary in the first few seconds. His was just the first video that came up when I Googled it. Also, if a video actually showing this happen isn't enough for you, here's the verdict from one of the perpetrators of the attack.
Don Lemon the comedian ? I am not going to miss his commentary ? Do me a favor. I want some Rachael Maddow opinions.
Ron, I won't quit my day job. I can't. I am retired, .
That Don Lemon video, I have seen before. To me a body cam is not very clear as to what happened. I did not see him get tazed or drug down the steps. Many in the crowd said to not hurt him. They also took him back to the doors as he asked. I did not hear him ask "did we secure the doors".
That was disturbing. As I said, mayhem happened.
If we can burn the American flag as freedom of speech, as a first amendment right, I have no problem with people going to "the people's house" to protest. Things did get out of hand and the crowd was worked up into a frenzy. By who ? Who is Michael Epps ? Some Capitol doors were held open for the protesters. By who and why ? The events at the Capitol happened before Trump finished his speech.
The Jan 6 committee would not allow any Republicans on it. Nancy Pelosi hand picked the members. They destroyed much of the exculpatory evidence. Liz Chaney announced that anyone trying to influence a witness should be brought up on charges. Liz Chaney tried to influence a witness. Liz Chaney recently received the Presidential Medal of Freedom for her Jan 6th participation.
Originally posted by blackrams: Not to involve myself in the discussion between you and Cliff but, I'm quite sure that every officer was encouraged to report any thing that could be construed as an injury even it was a blisters on their feet from running. I'm very skeptical of the numbers reported. That's not to suggest that all were faked. But, trusting our alphabet agencies has long since past.
If I was assaulted carrying out my job I would report every minor injury I sustained during the assault...would you be inclined to let them have a few freebies on-the-house? "But they only injured some of the cops a little" just seems a very strange response to a group that we know stabbed, tazed, beat, and injured many police officers seriously, causing multiple career-ending injuries. Pointing out that they weren't able to injure more cops more significantly in that time they doesn't diminish the damage they did do.
Sounds about right Ok, so now it's substantiate, but also cater to political preferences on sources, and accept also accept skepticism in place of any form of counter citation. We're gonna need this:
In the meantime...have you found ANY source from the Jan 6 riots citing their purpose as delaying the certification in order to buy time for court cases?
If I was assaulted carrying out my job I would report every minor injury I sustained during the assault...would you be inclined to let them have a few freebies on-the-house? "But they only injured some of the cops a little" just seems a very strange response to a group that we know stabbed, tazed, beat, and injured many police officers seriously, causing multiple career-ending injuries. Pointing out that they weren't able to injure more cops more significantly in that time they doesn't diminish the damage they did do.
All I'm going to say is, that's one perspective. I'm simply not buying it that there were as many injuries as reported to be attributed to the actual event. But, no doubt they were reported and will no doubt be justification for future benefits. Have seen it before.
Originally posted by blackrams: All I'm going to say is, that's one perspective. I'm simply not buying it that there were as many injuries as reported to be attributed to the actual event. But, no doubt they were reported and will no doubt be justification for future benefits. Have seen it before.
Rams
I guess that's the risk of smashing a cop in the head with a fire extinguisher while you taze him: He might report his twisted ankle, too
I guess that's the risk of smashing a cop in the head with a fire extinguisher while you taze him: He might report his twisted ankle, too
Or exaggerate the injury. Have seen that done many times at job sites. I don't doubt the fire extinguisher to the head was painful and I'm not suggesting the recipient deserved it but, what I'm suggesting is true and happens all the time. There's also the possibility that several LEOs had multiple "injuries" from the same encounter and each "injury" was counted separately. Hangnail on one hand, stubbed toe on the left foot, mustache clipped, etc................ IOWs, I don't trust or believe the count.
Again, I am not suggesting there weren't some injuries but, I've seen how things work in a political and union environment.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-04-2025).]
Originally posted by NewDustin: Sounds about right Ok, so now it's substantiate, but also cater to political preferences on sources, and accept also accept skepticism in place of any form of counter citation. We're gonna need this:
Counter citation is good. I use it all the time to form an opinion. I have no political preferences for news intelligence. I really am bipartisan.
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Originally posted by NewDustin: In the meantime...have you found ANY source from the Jan 6 riots citing their purpose as delaying the certification in order to buy time for court cases?
You have not shown me any evidence that the crowd thought that they could take over the nation. Goal posts are moved all the time. Show me an end zone line.
In the meantime, use your gray matter. Common sense.
You appear to have no issue with your President elect clown stating that he wishes to take over Canada, Greenland and the Panama Canal. Trump has gone completely off his rocker, yet his minions see no problem with these Truth Social ramblings. Looks like he's following Putin's playbook. Putin has his sheep believing the “special military operation" in Ukraine is justified as well.
Dozens of hotheads rioted, broke windows, attacked police and forced their way inside. Hundreds followed, many walking in peacefully, unimpeded by police. Then-Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson obtained video that showed many peaceful interactions between police and strolling protesters in the Capitol’s halls.
Also, something that the left are ignoring, is that not everyone received a full pardon. There are 14 people named that only had their sentences commuted. So their convictions still stand and they already spent years of their lives in prison.
Are you referring to the result of the largess spending by the Dumbocratic cult. Just as the recent housing market crash / recession that the Dumbocrats cult brought about ? The recession that Biden caused ?
Are you referring to the result of the largess spending by the Dumbocratic cult. Just as the recent housing market crash / recession that the Dumbocrats cult brought about ? The recession that Biden caused ?
Are you referring to the result of the largess spending by the Dumbocratic cult. Just as the recent housing market crash / recession that the Dumbocrats cult brought about ? The recession that Biden caused ?
Please, provide us with some clarity.
TYPICAL Gop BS NEVER ADMIT ANYTHING THEY DID DO IN 1920 THE Gop DOMINATED UNTIL THEY WERE THROW OUT IN 1932 THE GREAT DEPRESSION IS 100% Gop and caused by tariffs by them AS WAS 08 AFTER 8 YEARS OF BuSh2 MISRULE and wars own your own disasters
Or exaggerate the injury. Have seen that done many times at job sites. I don't doubt the fire extinguisher to the head was painful and I'm not suggesting the recipient deserved it but, what I'm suggesting is true and happens all the time. There's also the possibility that several LEOs had multiple "injuries" from the same encounter and each "injury" was counted separately. Hangnail on one hand, stubbed toe on the left foot, mustache clipped, etc................ IOWs, I don't trust or believe the count.
Again, I am not suggesting there weren't some injuries but, I've seen how things work in a political and union environment.
funny is blaming a god for everything as there is no god funny is fearing a god that just never was
even funniest is thinking they KNOW THE WILL OF A GOD THAT NEVER WAS
Blame God for everything? Who does that?
Fear God? God is love. Fear his Judgement, yeah, nonbelievers should do that, believers don't.
Knowing the will of God? False prophets and preachers say stuff like that. The will of God can be found in Ten very clear rules that need no interpretation.
Deny the existence of God? Methinks that would be reason to fear the possibility of His existence.
Atheism requires a lot of Faith, rayb. It's just not the right kind of faith.....
then they wanted a 1/10 of everything but only the best
they wrote a book said what god wants want you to do and not do
did not sell well
then a guy name saul wanted to be a paul and invented a religion
later rome spun their version 1700 or so years later we have lots of versions as any one can and does make up what ever they want to believe
NONE WAS EVER REAL THERE IS NO GOD
OR THERE WOULD BE ONE TRUE RELIGION WORLD WIDE FOR ALL TIME INSTEAD WE HAVE MAKE UP WHAT EVER YOU WANT AND NO ONE GOD FAVORED RELIGION IS CLEAR PROOF OF NO GOD IN ANY VERSION
NO COMPASSION FROM THE RUMP NOT BY THEIR WORDS BUT BY THEIR DEEDS [ACTION] AND RUMPS DEEDS ARE HATE
AN OTHER CLUE IS EVIL PEOPLE NEVER GET A LIGHTING BOLT AS IT IS RANDOM
Who is they? I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
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Originally posted by ray b:
then they wanted a 1/10 of everything but only the best
This I'm assuming you mean the Church, and in all technicallity, they don't/shouldn't. In the Old Testament, people did not have a direct line of access to God, instead people were saved by works, which included tithes and offerings, 10%, which included the food I assume you are talking about above, in the New Testament, Paul says:
"6... He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:6-7.
As Christians are saved by faith and not works under the new covenant, we don't need to give anything, we should want to give everything, but ultimately it is our free will.
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Originally posted by ray b:
they wrote a book said what god wants want you to do and not do
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Originally posted by ray b:
God inspired the writings that make up the modern Bible, a common message that was authored over 1600 years via about 40 authors, pretty hard to coordinate that without divine intervention. If there is a God, then I'd sure want to obey his rules, if not, what's the harm in not swearing, having a day off work every week, being good to parents, not killing, not commiting adultery, not stealing, not lying, not wishing for what's not mine, etc.
did not sell well
I dont know where you got that information, the Bible is the best selling book of all time, with over 5 billion sold, second best is a mere 200 million (just 0.04%)
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Originally posted by ray b:
then a guy name saul wanted to be a paul and invented a religion
Saul was the ultimate enemy of the early Church, actively killing any Christians he could, until one day he did a complete 180 and became a Christian himself, how would that happen normally, how would a "bad" person suddenly become "good", without a lifechanging event like meeting God. The name change was given by Jesus, to recognise that Paul is not the same person that he was before. Paul promoted the early church, and acted as spokesperson and missionary, but he did not "invent" anything.
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Originally posted by ray b:
later rome spun their version 1700 or so years later we have lots of versions as any one can and does make up what ever they want to believe
Not so. Rome remained pagan, and were slowly coming to their demise, until about 500 A.D. during that entire time, the early Church was gaining popularity, and gaining followers, a lot of the members were converted Romans, who left Rome as fugitives, that mass exodus from Rome, mass entry to the Church, and the enemies Rome had caused it to fall, and the church stepped in, the exiled Romans took back their land and other Christians settled in that area, becoming the Roman Catholic Church.
quote
Originally posted by ray b:
NONE WAS EVER REAL THERE IS NO GOD
I believe that there is, I see evidence for it in everything around me, if you don't, then there's no way I can change that.
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Originally posted by ray b:
OR THERE WOULD BE ONE TRUE RELIGION WORLD WIDE FOR ALL TIME INSTEAD WE HAVE MAKE UP WHAT EVER YOU WANT AND NO ONE GOD FAVORED RELIGION IS CLEAR PROOF OF NO GOD IN ANY VERSION
You know how santa claus came to be? Saint Nicholas, of the 4th century, he would help the poor, sick, giving cheering gifts to people in times of need, he believed that it was his duty to do that, to give away his belongings to others, he made such an impact that we still know his story, although through the years it has become twisted and changed in many ways to make it almost unrecognizeable. pere noel, sinterklaas, father Christmas, the list goes on, each with a different local adaptation, different customs, different outfits, different "coworkers", but most come from the story of Saint Nicholas. just because there are many different alterations does not mean that the original does not exist, or that the copies are the "real" person. we all know santa isn't real, but Saint Nicholas was, same thing can go with the plethora of deities. It is our nature to adapt the truth to suit our wishes, I mean Eve let satan convince her that the fruit was good for her that God had told her not to eat, so of course other cultures will grasp the basic idea of God, and add onto that in their own ways, adopting local customs, allowing changes that are profitable for them, that is a factor in many religions around the world, adaptation. The Bible has survived over 2700 years, with very few errors or alterations to the original texts, that tells me that God is actively promoting, and protecting his word from being changed and providing a single, unchanged point of reference for us. what we do with that is up to us (free will), hence the many different Church denominations, some more correct, some less correct, some downright wrong, but the Bible itself has come down through the generations relatively unchanged.
As for the one God favoured religion, that should be pretty clear as the Bible has been so popular, it shows that he has worked in the hearts of so many people so as to make the Bible the #1 book by a huge amount.
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Originally posted by ray b:
AN OTHER CLUE IS EVIL PEOPLE NEVER GET A LIGHTING BOLT AS IT IS RANDOM
They don't now, but they will get much worse. people on earth have their whole lives to make that all important choice, believe and be saved, or sin and be punished. God made us, he sets the rules, and lets us do as we please, he doesn't control us like robots, we have free will, but our actions will be punished after our time on earth is ended. He provided a get out of jail free card, if it is accepted, which very often it is not.
''I dont know where you got that information, the Bible is the best selling book of all time, with over 5 billion sold, second best is a mere 200 million (just 0.04%)''
NOTE THE ORDER
after food and 1/10 of everything you got
but before saul/paul
so we speak of the jewish buybull before the new improved re-spun version that yes was a best seller
''Saul was the ultimate enemy of the early Church, actively killing any Christians he could, until one day he did a complete 180 and became a Christian himself, how would that happen normally, how would a "bad" person suddenly become "good", without a lifechanging event like meeting God. The name change was given by Jesus, to recognise that Paul is not the same person that he was before. Paul promoted the early church, and acted as spokesperson and missionary, but he did not "invent" anything.''
stroke fever fell and hit his head some all and or other event heat dehydration all far more likely then god did it he was active in kiling maybe stressed by it note people with him in the story heard and saw zip hardly a public event all in saul/pauls head paul twisted the story to suit his spin and yes he invented and wrote the book some of them anyway and no the church paul invented was not james the just's jewish church he started a no cut cult with no whacking of dootles required with many other revisions sorry but that was the first split of far too many
SAUL / PAUL NEVER SAW JC ALIVE IN PERSON
NOW THE IMPERATOR CONSTANTINE did collect the books of the new spin and in doing so controlled the dogma of the church by the selection mostly to please his mommy who was a nut and to control the masses much was rejected edited re-ended [see long and short versions of several of the G]
btw where is hell we see some chunks in the deep under ground but no hell ice center is not possible so no he ain't frozen there no heaven in any hubble picture or the new web ether no streets of gold or other BS
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 01-25-2025).]
''I dont know where you got that information, the Bible is the best selling book of all time, with over 5 billion sold, second best is a mere 200 million (just 0.04%)''
NOTE THE ORDER
after food and 1/10 of everything you got
but before saul/paul
so we speak of the jewish buybull before the new improved re-spun version that yes was a best seller
Ok, that makes sense, the Jewish Bible (old testament) is the first steps to God, and being a works religion with little obvious result, it was not super popular, now was it intended to be, it was intended only for the Jewish people, but the old testament shows us our sin, tells us what the standards are to be saved, and how hard it is to meet them, it also points towards Jesus in many prophecies across many books, points towards a new testament that was coming, Jesus came, fulfilled the prophecies, and the new testament was written, the full guide book to salvation, the old to show us our sin and how helpless we are, the new to show us the way we can be saved from that. Neither part is complete without the other, they go hand in hand, no parts were "re-spun", as the old testament talks about things that happen in the new testament, the new testament fulfills the old, doesn't replace it, just different steps in God's path to salvation that he made available at different times.
stroke fever fell and hit his head some all and or other event heat dehydration all far more likely then god did it note people with him in the story heard and saw zip hardly a public event all in saul/pauls head paul twisted the story to suit his spin and yes he invented and wrote the book some of them anyway
SAUL / PAUL NEVER SAW JC ALIVE IN PERSON
That very well could be, but there is no proof for that, just as I don't have proof that that didn't happen, other then the lengths he went to preach the gospel, he was tortured and nearly killed numerous times for that, and he worked hand in hand with the rest of the early church, especially the disciples of Jesus who did see Jesus in person, and accepted his change as a legitimate work of God. As for Paul twisting the story, he speaks the same message as the other authors of the new testament, most notably Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the author's of the Gospels, he teaches those same messages, and helps the early churches survive the persecution they were under, and berates some of them for their problems, when they profess to be Christian, but don't show a meaningful change in their pagan ways.
quote
Originally posted by ray b:
NOW THE IMPERATOR CONSTANTINE did collect the books of the new spin and in doing so controlled the dogma of the church by the selection mostly to please his mommy who was a nut and to control the masses much was rejected edited re-ended [see long and short versions of several of the G]
btw where is hell we see some chunks in the deep under ground but no hell no heaven in any hubble picture or the new web ether
Constantine had a part in the church, including publishing specific books of the new testament (thought to be only the Gospels, similar to what we still do today with "Gospel tracts") but by and large the collection of the new testament was not related to him, well before him Christians generally accepted about 21 of the books, and it was about 50 years after his death that the church specifically set up a list of official books, the Biblical "Canon".
If we knew where Heaven and Hell were, then we would be able to access them and they would not be as absolute as they are, if God can create everything we see, then he can create everything we don't see as well, he is not limited to the constraints that we are. We don't "see" the fabric of space/time, but all our calculations points to it being there, and we observe effects of it, we cannot "see"black holes, by definition, they suck everything, including light into themselves, so the only way to "see"them is to notice the absence of anything, and see how their mass effects other objects nearby. We can't "see" God or Heaven or Hell, but we "see"his creation, an entire self sustaining ecosystem, seemingly all alone in this universe. Scientist are looking for alien life, but no evidence has been found yet, how did we just "happen" with no evidence of anyone else in the entire known universe, unless we were created by someone greater than what we know, with a plan.
. We have been taking politician zhit all our life.
