Originally posted by williegoat: Replace gas stoves with stoves which run on electricity which is made by burning gas (40%) and coal (20%).
Yeah... but the electrical power plant that feeds the grid isn't in your kitchen.
It's being framed, first and foremost, in terms of indoors air pollution and the direct impacts on human health when humans breathe or become exposed to the airborne particles and chemicals that arise from having and using gas-fired ranges and ovens.
The CO2 or "climate" angle is also being argued, but that's not center stage.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-03-2023).]
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I wonder what the name of the grant was for that report.
That was just an overview. This is the full report:
"Methane and NOx Emissions from Natural Gas Stoves, Cooktops, and Ovens in Residential Homes" Eric D. Lebel, Colin J. Finnegan, Zutao Ouyang, and Robert B. Jackson Environmental Science and Technology, 2022, 56, 4, 2529–2539; January 27, 2022. https://doi.org/10.1021/acs.est.1c04707
The four authors are all affiliated with the Department of Earth System Science at Stanford University.
I don't see anything about how the research was funded. The institution(s) or agency or agencies that supported the research financially.
"The authors declare no competing financial interest."
"The authors declare no competing financial interest."
The government declare the same thing, then send our sons and daughters to die.
Excuse me while I try to find my last **** about someone from stanford telling me I'm going to die because I have a gas stove. If they were just looking out for us then would figure out how to bring jobs back home, lower the cost of living and buying a home.
You live in CA, the house I'm in now (renting) is valued at close to $500,000. The home I had in Florida that was made from bricks and is newer is valued at $120,000. So perhaps they can get off the governments tit and actually research how to enable people to make things better for themselves. What kind of house to you think the people that published that report live in?
I don't know about you but I'm tired of all of the taxes that are taken to "make my life better" FIX THE 405 and I will start to believe you, just a little. Perhaps spend some time on the homeless problems. Probably don't care because there probably isn't that much of a homeless problem in stanford.
Lets work on things that are broken, never mind if they are going to get votes. Make peoples lives better instead of just more complicated.
Among all gas-fired home appliances, the gas-fired home cooking range is "unique"
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Natural gas is a popular fuel choice for home cooking. Nationally, over one-third of households (more than 40 million homes) cook with gas...
People interact more directly with their stove than with other gas appliances, increasing potential exposure to any natural gas constituents and compounds formed during combustion, including formaldehyde (CH2O) carbon monoxide (CO), and nitrogen oxides (NOx)...
Among all gas appliances, the stove is unique in that the byproducts of combustion are emitted directly into home air with no requirement for venting the exhaust outdoors. In fact, some kitchens have “ductless” hoods that recirculate fumes through activated charcoal filters, which are generally less effective at cleaning the air. Vented hoods have a range of effectiveness and function best when overhanging the stove. Because exhaust hoods are separate from the stove and must be operated manually, vented hoods in practice are used only 25–40% of the time...
NO2 is a respiratory irritant and can lead to asthma, coughing, wheezing, and difficulty breathing, occasionally resulting in hospitalization.
To say that the federal government has no legitimate interest in this matter, is to say that the federal government should not have a U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission. (That's how I see it.)
I'm not suggesting that anyone on the forum needs to replace their gas cooking appliance(s) with electric, as a personal or family health precaution. It's just something to think about. Especially, if someone is already thinking about upgrading or remodeling their kitchen.
"I have no competing financial interest."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-03-2023).]
Imagine being so stupid that you would think that a dimwitted meme is enough to dispel any legitimate public interest in the connection between gas-fired kitchen ranges and childhood asthma.
I owned a home for 18 years which had a gas stove. I hated that stove. Sure, the heat was fast compared to a conventional electric stove... but I was always aware that it "stunk". I much prefer an electric stove... and the (relatively) new induction cooktops are fantastic!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-04-2023).]
According to the Grist (not to be confused with former Florida Governor Charlie Crist) Eugene Residents For Energy Choice is an "astroturf" grass-roots style campaign, organized by Oregon's largest natural gas utility. The petition campaign is aimed at stopping a new Eugene city ordinance that mandates that newly constructed residential buildings cannot be set up with gas-fired kitchen ranges or other home appliances, and cannot be configured with gas-fired furnaces and air conditioners or other gas energy operated HVAC.
The petition campaign is aimed at stopping a new Eugene city ordinance that mandates that newly constructed residential buildings cannot be set up with gas-fired kitchen ranges or other home appliances, and cannot be configured with gas-fired furnaces and air conditioners or other gas energy operated HVAC.
As much as I might agree that gas fired stoves and ranges are a potential health hazard (due to basically no outside venting), I can't say I agree with disallowing gas-fired furnaces, hot water tanks, fireplaces etc which do have proper venting. Seems like an overreaction to me.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-07-2023).]
Originally posted by Patrick: As much as I might agree that gas fired stoves and ranges are a potential health hazard (due to basically no outside venting), I can't say I agree with disallowing gas-fired furnaces, hot water tanks, fireplaces etc which do have proper venting. Seems like an overreaction to me.
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The city council in Eugene, Oregon, earlier this month voted 5 to 3 to phase out fossil fuels from new homes, making Eugene the first city in the state to pass such a policy.
The ordinance bans gas appliances in new residential buildings that have fewer than four stories, requiring that they instead be outfitted with electric ranges and heating systems. It’s intended to advance Eugene’s climate action plan, which aims to halve fossil fuel use in the city by 2030, compared to a 2010 baseline.
The people who are supporting this city ordinance are expressing concerns about the climate impacts of natural gas fuel (greenhouse gas emissions) and also the carcinogens and respiratory system irritants that are emitted when natural gas is burned for energy. That second "gotcha" is particularly germane to gas-fired cooking ranges and ovens, for those who respect the research reports that I have posted in this thread.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-07-2023).]
The people who are supporting this city ordinance are expressing concerns about the climate impacts of natural gas fuel (greenhouse gas emissions) and also the carcinogens and respiratory system irritants that are emitted when natural gas is burned for energy.
My personal feelings are that the "climate impacts" of gas-fired furnaces, fireplaces etc are minimal, but that "respiratory system irritants" are indeed an actual concern in regards to gas stoves and ranges.
Originally posted by Wichita: Ban gas stoves domestically so it can be liquidfied and given to friends of Ukraine.
I guess on some "years into the future" timeline, the phaseout of gas cooking ranges in the U.S. could eventually have the effect of freeing up a small but measurable amount of the U.S. natural gas inventory that could be exported from the U.S. to Ukraine.
But most of the gas that is burned for home energy in the U.S. is for HVAC, not for cooking ranges.
It's beyond ludicrous to suggest that the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission or any of the advocacy groups are interested in this because they see it as a way to help Ukraine.
"The stupid, it burns..."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-07-2023).]
"California's climate dreams won't come true without major change"
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The state's climate plan has details about how to reduce emissions from residents but does very little to compel the biggest polluters to change
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In the months since California announced its new plan for achieving carbon neutrality by 2045, much of the media attention has, unsurprisingly, focused on the aspects that will directly affect consumers, including a torrent of articles about the state’s plan to phase out gas stoves and heaters.
But over the past two decades, California’s residential sector was responsible for just 8% of the state’s total greenhouse gas emissions. In contrast, industrial polluters—primarily gas power plants, oil refineries and cement factories—were responsible for nearly three times that much, making them the second-largest source of carbon emissions after transportation. And while the state has an extremely lucid plan for curbing the climate impacts of residential appliances, its plan for dealing with industrial sources is much less specific—and relies partly, if vaguely, on the use of unproven technologies.
"U.S. [Consumer Product Safety Commission] issues ‘Request for Information’ on safety of gas cookers"
EXCERPT
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The request for information asks for input from consumers, manufacturers, government agencies, non-governmental organizations, and researchers on chronic chemical hazards associated with the use of gas ranges.
The CPSC specify the sort of information they are after:
Relating to the scope and scale of potential chronic chemical hazards, exposures, and risks associated with gas range use.
Relating to data sources and approaches CPSC should consider when completing an evaluation of chronic chemical hazards, exposures, and risks related to gas range use.
Relating to any chronic chemical hazards, exposures, and risks associated with gas range use.
Stanford researchers partway into the largest and most scientific study to date of gas cooking ranges and their impacts on indoors air quality and human health.
The researchers are using sophisticated air monitoring devices inside of homes in ten different cities to study the indoors air pollution that drifts from room to room from gas-fired kitchen cooking ranges and ovens.
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There has been mounting scientific evidence of the health risks of gas stoves. One paper published late last year found that gas stoves may be linked to nearly 13 percent of childhood cases of asthma in the United States. Previous research shows that gas stoves have led to more exacerbated asthma symptoms as well.
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The team’s results are preliminary, but they are in line with a body of scientific research that has linked gas stove emissions to harmful pollution affecting both climate change and public health. Previous research has also shown that emissions continue to be released when a stove is turned off because stoves can leak natural gas, which is mostly methane, a potent greenhouse gas.
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More than 60 percent of American households already use electricity to cook, and the Biden administration has proposed to expand gas stove efficiency rules, with an estimated $100 million in energy savings for people on top of the climate and health benefits. Several cities in mostly blue states have passed or considered bans on new gas hookups, effectively requiring electric cooking and heating in new construction, though some red states have moved to pre-empt such bans.
The Stanford team, which has already tested stoves in cities including San Francisco; Denver; Houston; and Melbourne, Australia, is heading to Washington next. It also plans to test in Europe and Asia.
You wanna know what would REALLY improve health and electrical/gas energy efficiency in homes/apartments? Air flow sealing. In all my years in telecom, wallplates, any wire feeds into walls, ceiling light fixtures aren't sealed with some sort of fire stop or foam gasket.
A lot of new home construction fire stop all electrical/telecom lines.
When windows are open and wind blows through creating a type of vacuum/pressure change, old and new type insulation fibers/dust get sucked through all them cracks/holes into your living spaces. Floating in your breathing air also creating dust bunnies.
Spring/summer months when AC is working all that cold air is lost from them openings.
Winter months, windows closed, opening any inside outside door creates a vacuum/pressure change causing more dust to get sucked through them cracks. With heat escaping.
But no, it's ALWAYS the evil petroleum companies. So much US tax grant money given to egotistical paper degree carriers so they can live in one of many beach front property locations. The legal mafia political establishment have their next form of extortion lined up: NWO 2030 0010 0000 0011 0000
PriDEMONth lovers can't even cleanup their own cities and towns, yet they think they can fix others health and the global environment.
Originally posted by WonderBoy: You wanna know what would REALLY improve health and electrical/gas energy efficiency in homes/apartments? Air flow sealing. In all my years in telecom, wallplates, any wire feeds into walls, ceiling light fixtures aren't sealed with some sort of fire stop or foam gasket. A lot of new home construction fire stop all electrical/telecom lines.
<SNIP>
I wonder if these kinds of improvements to already constructed homes and apartments are currently being incentivized in different ways. Perhaps by the local gas and electric utility companies. Or through some already existing government program to incentivize home and apartment owners to have contractors come in and improve the insulation. I wonder if there is some funding for this in any of the bills that Congress has enacted during the Biden administration.
I wonder, but I'm not the WonderBoy.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 06-04-2023).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: Stanford researchers are using sophisticated air monitoring devices inside of homes in ten different cities to study the indoors air pollution that drifts from room to room from gas-fired kitchen cooking ranges and ovens.
Some claim smoking will kill you. The idiots claim second hand, and third hand smoke will kill you.
Can we just admit that Democrats are extremely dishonest with their intentions? They obviously think the populace is completely idiotic.
First they say they don't want to ban stoves... ...then literally go through the process of banning stoves, stopping only because everyone loses their **** over it.
Then they continue to say they never had any intention of banning stoves... and they're quiet for a couple of months.
Then... suddenly, now they're looking to regulate standards for gas stoves that would make illegal to sell new, some 90% of the current stoves being sold on the market.
After a slew of Supreme Court rulings against the EPA... UNANIMOUS rulings from all Supreme Court members, including one just last week... the Biden administration is now quietly halting the regulation of gas stoves.
And all the news sites are saying things like... "What the freakout from the right about gas stoves was all about..." and then they emphasize that gas stoves are powered by "fossil fuels," as if that's supposed to trigger the Millennials into being like... OMG, we have to stop it.
Please... yes, the population is stupid, but it's not on the right... it's the left.
I would argue that "the idiots" are the ones who pay good money to voluntarily suck known carcinogens into their lungs. Absolute madness!
Like taking an untested, "quickly & hastily" develope injection of various lab made liquids by companies 'just looking to help' and not at all worried about profit and stock price? You may be onto something...
Are you saying native north American tribesmen are idiots? Racist! Racist! How DARE YOU question their culture and heritage.
I wonder if these kinds of improvements to already constructed homes and apartments are currently being incentivized in different ways. Perhaps by the local gas and electric utility companies. Or through some already existing government program to incentivize home and apartment owners to have contractors come in and improve the insulation. I wonder if there is some funding for this in any of the bills that Congress has enacted during the Biden administration.
I wonder, but I'm not the WonderBoy.
There are programs like this AND THEY SURE AS HELL WEREN'T ENACTED BY THE P3D0 Briben Administration. Nor the Chief head of the snake marxipad Barry "no one is more Irish/KENYAN" Ohmama. Many utility companies have been offering this for decades. Even doing infrared scans of your home. But for the past 2 democrat admins, they found a way to syphon more tax payer money to go to their lobbyist donors that doesn't get used, but they collect a check though.
Are you saying native north American tribesmen are idiots? Racist! Racist! How DARE YOU question their culture and heritage.
I very much doubt that the tobacco utilized by the indigenous peoples of North America (pre-white man) even remotely resembles the processed commercial addictive concoction currently flogged by RJ Reynolds, Philip Morris, etc. You'd have us believe the natives were sucking on Marlboros when Columbus arrived.
They probably weren't slaves to it either... weren't lighting up 20 times a day, or more.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-05-2023).]
Originally posted by Patrick: I suspect a few asbestos miners are still kicking as well. There are always exceptions to the rule.
I would argue that "the idiots" are the ones who pay good money to voluntarily suck known carcinogens into their lungs. Absolute madness!
Hmmm ... .
I can almost give you both of them.
Your first comment, good, might not be factual. Do the numbers reflect the amount of dead asbestos are the rule, or the exception ?
You second comment, very good, sucking known carcinogens into their lungs is not the only threat. Though again, which is the exception, which is the rule ?
In a enclosed warehouse what type of forklift do they use? Why is this?
It depends. I've been in warehouses filled with propane forklifts. I've also been in warehouses filled with electric. Most use a mixture of gas and electric.
As far as what companies use what, it all comes down to either money or regulation. None of it is chosen because of a negative or positive effect on the workers lives.
It depends. I've been in warehouses filled with propane forklifts. I've also been in warehouses filled with electric. Most use a mixture of gas and electric.
As far as what companies use what, it all comes down to either money or regulation. None of it is chosen because of a negative or positive effect on the workers lives.
When I was a driver, which was in the previous century, battery technology wasn't where it is now. Batteries were lead-acid and were only used on very small machines, mostly under 2,000 lb capacity. Bigger electric machines existed, but were few and far between.
Lead acid forklifts stink, and probably cause more health issues than Propane/LPG.
The biggest forklift I ever drove was a 22,000 lb Cat with a 3208. The smallest was a 5,000 lb Hyster with a propane GM straight six.
By default, it seems you blindly accept anything and everything the left tells you, but you immediately reject everything the right tells you.
Everything that's going on right now is about control:
1 - the constant attack on gun ownership to remove guns from the populace so they will not be a threat 2 - the completely open borders intended to overwhelm the system 3 - Eliminate energy options for the sole purpose of having a single choke-point and means of control
... list goes on. Those pulling the strings want to have control, and they can ONLY do that by controlling the United States. They can ONLY control the United States by limiting the power of the citizenry, and the ability for them to operate autonomously.
Seriously Rinse... your assumption that I'm being misleading is so out there. Do you really think of ALL the things the Democrats could pick that would help the environment right now, that gas stoves are actually important?
By default, it seems you blindly accept anything and everything the left tells you, but you immediately reject everything the right tells you.
That is the hallmark of the rank and file of the New American Left. It is a “lifestyle”, a faith, a religion. Opinion is sacrilege, dissension is blasphemy. Individuality is grounds for excommunication.
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