Originally posted by blyfot: First of all, thank you for your engagement and feedback. This kind of feedback is what will make FieroHub great in the long run!
Thanks for considering my feedback.
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Originally posted by blyfot: FieroHub aim to follow the policy "What you want to see, you should also share". You are correct in that this will have it's downsides. But don't you agree that this is the most fare policy to use? And I believe that the upsides make it worth it in this case.
I do see your line of thinking with a "What you want to see, you should also share" policy.
However, as your stated goal is to build a worldwide Fiero community registry, please do consider that the human psyche is generally more responsive to a positive sense of group belonging / being part of a community, rather than being unexpectedly confronted with a "You need to show me, before I share anything with you" mentality.
ie. If a Fiero owner has taken the time to register as an authenticated user, then letting them see that they are now part of a community of fellow Fiero owners, places them in a more enticing position to add their own Fiero to the group they can see they have now joined.
As opposed to a newly authenticated user currently being disappointed to just find themselves alone in an empty space, being told that they must blindly submit their own Fiero details before being accepted into an as yet unseen group.
Just some constructive feedback for your consideration, if you do choose to experiment with other options in the future.
However, as your stated goal is to build a worldwide Fiero community registry, please do consider that the human psyche is generally more responsive to a positive sense of group belonging / being part of a community, rather than being unexpectedly confronted with a "You need to show me, before I share anything with you" mentality.
I might consider unlocking the "Statistics" part of the content for everyone. But have to think about that a bit
I'm incredibly curious as I've thought about building something like this myself in the past but never had the time. What application stack did you go with? Are you open to having contributing developers branch your repos and collaborate?
I'm incredibly curious as I've thought about building something like this myself in the past but never had the time. What application stack did you go with? Are you open to having contributing developers branch your repos and collaborate?
What I can say about the tech stack is that I have gone for well proven software, with security-first approach.
I'm hoping to have a setup of the repository in the future that allows external developers to contribute to parts of it. But I'm not there yet...
However, it is trivial for someone to follow those rules and create a VIN that follows the rules, and that is recognized as valid.
I think that VIN checking still has value; it can detect typos or accidental mistakes. But you will not be able to detect someone trying to make a false VIN.
2. Even if a Fiero VIN is valid and belongs to a real car, VIN validity does not prove that the username owns that Fiero.
3. Even if someone does own a particular Fiero, that says nothing of the character of the person.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: I wouldn't require a login to view the statistics/map. It does not add security, lMO.
It is not about security in that sense, because we do not expose any secret data through the API:s. The login is just a way to be able to know who looks at our data and to make our api:s less public. The data that needs protecting is secured by other means than login.
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle: 1. It is easy to make a false VIN and create a false profile.
Yes, and we might and might not find that later. But, why would someone bother to create a false profile? And how bad would it be if someone does that?
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle: 2. Even if a Fiero VIN is valid and belongs to a real car, VIN validity does not prove that the username owns that Fiero.
FieroHub do not intend to try to prove ownership. We want a registry that contains cars that are as accurate as possible.
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Originally posted by pmbrunelle: 3. Even if someone does own a particular Fiero, that says nothing of the character of the person.
You can be a Fiero owner and have bad intentions.
Same as above: But, why would someone bother to create a false profile? And how bad would it be if someone does that?
For those that wants access to the registered Fieros, but for some reason don't want their car to be shown anywhere: Uncheck the option "This Fiero can be shown to other users."
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 12-22-2021).]
This is not a question specific to fierohub.com, and I am not a programmer, so perhaps you can explain (in simplified terms).
For our education!
Best practice as I understand is that passwords should be hashed, to avoid having passwords in the clear.
When I type something into the password box, the string should be hashed, and then compared with the fierohub.com copy of my hashed password. If the two hashes are the same, then I can log in.
How is it that during password creation, you are able to tell if I am not using enough special characters, majuscule or minuscule letters? If you are working with the hashed passwords, you should not be able to tell which characters are used in the password string.
How is it that during password creation, you are able to tell if I am not using enough special characters, majuscule or minuscule letters? If you are working with the hashed passwords, you should not be able to tell which characters are used in the password string.
First: The login dialogue is provided to FieroHub by our partner Auth0 (see https://auth0.com). They provide us with a well proven and secure solution for authentication across different platforms.
A general answer to your question: During password creation, usually nothing is sent over the network. The restrictions you mention are validated by rules that exists locally. The *** that you see in place of your password is just there to hide it from bystanders. If passwords are ever sent over network they must be protected by SSL or similar (indicated by a lock icon next to the URL). You are correct in that passwords are never stored in plain text.
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 12-23-2021).]
No, not yet. Hoping to implement some kind of history in the future, also for other options.
I ask because the status of the vehicle could easily change and the person, or new owner forget to update the site. Making the record basically invalid.
3. Even if someone does own a particular Fiero, that says nothing of the character of the person. You can be a Fiero owner and have bad intentions.
Yup. It does seem some people are fearful of something. Some have said they will not register and keep their car "secret". So secret, that they don't even have a pic with it on their Facebook. LOL
[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-23-2021).]
Click on your registered Fiero to see a new link, that will open your Fiero on a separate page. This page can be shared with anyone, also outside of FieroHub.
- Your contact information is not shown. - Can be used for social media, link from your own website, your car clubs website, here on Pennock's Fiero Forum etc.
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 12-27-2021).]
A Fiero place can be anything from a business with a physical location, to an online service or meeting place. The most important criteria is that the place should bring value to the Fiero community.
We have gone for a "Wikipedia" approach, where the community together are responsible for adding and updating these places.
However, execution-wise I don't think it really does much.
As stated earlier by another user, requiring one to submit a VIN to view anything useful is rather silly. Perhaps people are not current Fiero owners and thinking of buying one, or just curious car collectors, or former owners. It there really is a bad person with bad intentions, that person would have no qualms about searching online for a Fiero VIN and just adding it to a profile, so it's rather useless to block out non-owners or non-submitters.
Also the statistics are rather lame. Seeing a pie chart is pretty juvenile where one has to mouse over to see what the number is. I'd much rather just see a table with drop downs (similar to a pivot table in excel) with numbers in a table. e.g. 1988 Fieros: Red 23, Yellow 7, Burgundy 12. Next row 1987 Red 0, Yellow 0, Burgundy 20. Next row 1986 Red 25, Yellow 0, Burgundy 0. Et al.
Even worse for the colors. The colors are never identified and there are multiple shades of what I would think are the same thing.
It's also confusing as to whether this is supposed to be what the car came from the factory with or what the owner has done. e.g. It was yellow from the factory and is now painted red. Is it in the database as red or yellow and does the person filling the form out even know which you're asking for? It came without performance sounds but I added it. So is it yes or no?
And finally, I'm always reluctant to submit data to some gatekeeper that has all the minute details about the cars for his own examination yet doesn't reveal the car-level data to the rest of us. e.g. You're asking for individual VIN level detail and option codes yet don't provide that back to the member to see for the rest of the cars. Only you the gatekeeper can know everyone's Fiero's intimate details.
Originally posted by reinhart: It's also confusing as to whether this is supposed to be what the car came from the factory with or what the owner has done.
The instructions says that you should enter information "based on the current state of the car".
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Originally posted by reinhart: On paper this is a fun idea.
However, execution-wise I don't think it really does much.
I appreciate your honest feedback. Will think about what could be done regarding your notes. FieroHub is here for us Fiero owners, not the other way around.
Meanwhile you can read the FAQ, that might answer some of your concerns, specifically about the VIN: https://fierohub.com/faq.html
Originally posted by reinhart: And finally, I'm always reluctant to submit data to some gatekeeper that has all the minute details about the cars for his own examination yet doesn't reveal the car-level data to the rest of us.
The only data FieroHub requires but do not show to other users is the VIN. VIN is only needed to make it possible to find duplicate cars in the future. This is according to what most owners have suggested when we planned this. Some of the information shown is anonymized (like buy price in statistics) because it might be considered sensitive.
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 01-13-2022).]
The only data FieroHub requires but do not show to other users is the VIN. VIN is only needed to make it possible to find duplicate cars in the future. This is according to what most owners have suggested when we planned this. Some of the information shown is anonymized (like buy price in statistics) because it might be considered sensitive.
I'm confused. You offer car level option detail? I must have missed that.
I'm confused. You offer car level option detail? I must have missed that.
All that info (except Interior color and Rims color, because of the problems with colors that you also mentioned) should be visible for example on the Registered Fieros page: https://fierohub.com/cars/
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 01-13-2022).]
But perhaps your point is that we should present the data in "raw" format. Like in the database?
I guess we could find a way to provide that to the users. Without the VIN and private details. But then it would be up to the user to parse out the data herself, using excel or similar.
The idea with the Statistics page is to provide some of that information in an easy way.
For example: "How big part of all 1988:s has a rear wing" or "What did the Roadworthy 1984:s sell for the last 5 years"
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 01-13-2022).]
Originally posted by reinhart: Also the statistics are rather lame. Seeing a pie chart is pretty juvenile where one has to mouse over to see what the number is. I'd much rather just see a table with drop downs (similar to a pivot table in excel) with numbers in a table. e.g. 1988 Fieros: Red 23, Yellow 7, Burgundy 12. Next row 1987 Red 0, Yellow 0, Burgundy 20. Next row 1986 Red 25, Yellow 0, Burgundy 0. Et al.
Absolute numbers are hidden on purpose (but can be seen on mouse over).
The reason is that absolute numbers like "How many 1988 yellow Fieros are there" is not that relevant until we have a much larger percentage of registrated Fieros. Right now, that would only answer "How many 1988 Yellow Fieros are registered in FieroHub".
Statistical data however can give a somewhat accurate answer to "How big part of all the 1988 Fieros are yellow". That is the reason why I chose to use pie charts at this point in time.
[This message has been edited by blyfot (edited 01-13-2022).]
Absolute numbers are hidden on purpose (but can be seen on mouse over).
The reason is that absolute numbers like "How many 1988 yellow Fieros are there" is not that relevant until we have a much larger number of registrated Fieros. Right now, that would only answer "How many 1988 Yellow Fieros are registered in FieroHub".
Statistical data however can give a somewhat accurate answer to "How big part of all the 1988 Fieros are yellow". That is the reason why I chose to use pie charts at this point in time.
It's obviously understood that this doesn't represent all Fieros ever made but just the Fieros voluntarily in the database. And regardless of the number of cars you ever get it will never represent all Fieros made. Why not just have a table as suggested. People are smart enough to know this isn't all Fieros. Also a drop down to switch from "count" to "percentage" in the table would give a percentage as well, as I agree that is useful info as well.
Originally posted by reinhart: Why not just have a table as suggested.
I would like to do this, but I just don't know how to show that table? Because someone might want to see numbers per model year, someone else might want to see how many automatic V6:s there are, aso.
So then we are back to raw data, which is not that human friendly:
Any help with formatting the output of this table would be appreciated.
Someone will want to do some specific analysis from time to time, and it wouldn't make sense for you to add a feature to perform that analysis, just for a one-person/one-time use. Every time a feature is added, it adds weight and maintenance difficulty to the application.
For people who want to do specific things, I suggest offering a download of all information (without VIN or price) in *.csv format.
Then, people can import the file in Excel, and do what they want there.
