For many, many years I have seen so many with not working, slow, twitching etc headlight motors in their 84-86 Fiero's. I have answered my phone thru the years so many times telling these owners the biggest problems is degraded connections, grounds, etc. I had an idea but it was not feasible. Then I had a second idea. Did not help much if any. I was surprised. I thought it would. So I had a third idea. The third idea works and works very well. I am making an all in one potted box headlight motor controller. This box replaces all 3 of the OEM relays. Replaces the old degraded connectors to the headlight motors. Has 2 ground wires coming out of it to insure a good ground.
I still have some work to do yet and I want to put in at least one more kit in a 84-86 Fiero locally. I hope to have them for sale in a few weeks or so. Requires cutting and splicing wires.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I'm not in need since I switched my car to Gen 2 system but that looks awesome and a great solution to the problems associated with a 30 year old gen 1 system.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
I know changing to the 87/88 system is certainly nice. Not that many complete 87/88 take outs are ever available these days. Takes a fair amount of work to install. If you have good 84-86 headlight motors, in my opinion, adding this kit will make the 84-86 motors work almost forever with no problems. I have heard owners say the 87/88 is faster and quieter and I'll agree with that from what I have seen. After we installed this kit in that 84 Indy they were quite fast and not noisy at all. I think part of the noise is the 84-86 motors running at a lower voltage.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
If you have relay problems then very likely you Do Not have good motors. Above video car likely does have iffy motors. At minimum needs new bumpers before the gears break but often needs other work.
Most times Fixing or "Rebuilding" the Gen1 motors are a crap shoot at best and often have more problem or die again. Review any fix means little because most reviewers have no clue and Many cars are sold or junk before have more HL motor problems. Same problem for people buying Derlin pins for Gen2 motors... The motors work until the gears or output shaft dies because Derlin is too hard.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
If you have relay problems then very likely you Do Not have good motors.
So I should just throw this whole thing in the scrap pile? I'll gladly stand behind this item and see how well it works. Should work especially well IMO. I have no doubt. At a minimum everyone that installs this should have solid motors with good bumpers in the gears and if not that would be part of the installation process. I'll add that to my web page for this item.
This IMO is a really good idea and long over due. Wish I would have came up with this many years ago.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Rodney, My wife has an 86 Coupe here in Minnesota. We'd love to do some testing with the module if you decide you want to go a bit further afield.
I ponder now if they are even worth making.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
To make the Gen 1 system reliable, I think the limit switches would need to be bypassed, and instead rely on detecting the current consumption rise of the electric motors when they reach their travel limits. If we're replacing electromechanical parts with solid state, might as well go all the way.
Once the limit switch functionality of the Gen 1 motors is disregarded, I believe that their reliability is on-par with the Gen 2 stuff.
Essentially, this would be copying what the Gen 2 headlight module does with its motor, but we would be implementing this idea (current sensing) for the Gen 1 motors.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 04-11-2017).]
Originally posted by Rodney: I ponder now if they are even worth making.
Personally your kit will be a must in the long run... as our cars get older more and more working OEM parts are getting impossible to find .... I estimate in a couple of years people will find it very hard restoring our quirky cars .... vendors like you and me are also dissappearing because of some wanna be know it all... I have nothing to teach you Rodney your parts are top notch and people around here do know quality parts are getting harder to find....
I have a pair of NIB GT fastback tail lights complete assembly and they are and will Never be for sale before a long long time.
Rodney! I will be a paying customer and I will buy this kit from you.
I have your headlight rebuilt kits in my current Fiero for 12+ years now and they haven't failed. Currently my headlight motors are working great. But I'm down for an electronics upgrade for our Fieros.
I'm going to keep my Fiero until I die and right now, I've started to undergo a transformation with it, where everything will be upgraded, including the wiring. So I'm going to be getting your aluminum cradle mounts and other items here in a bit.
If this is offered, I'll buy it.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 04-11-2017).]
This is awesome, I've got my first 86 I hadn't planned on swapping to 87+ headlights because the wiring is currently working. If I start having problems, I'll have a new option.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: To make the Gen 1 system reliable, I think the limit switches would need to be bypassed, and instead rely on detecting the current consumption rise of the electric motors when they reach their travel limits. If we're replacing electromechanical parts with solid state, might as well go all the way.
Once the limit switch functionality of the Gen 1 motors is disregarded, I believe that their reliability is on-par with the Gen 2 stuff.
Essentially, this would be copying what the Gen 2 headlight module does with its motor, but we would be implementing this idea (current sensing) for the Gen 1 motors.
Gen1 cannot work without the limit switches and Relays w/ "snubbers" Do Not copy the Gen2 Module.
Contacts w/ "snubbers" have less or no arcing when relays etc open or close the contact. Very old way to extent contact life span. "Snubbers" are a Generic term for MOV and other devices.
Gen2 Module actively monitors power used by each motor and kills power in Nanoseconds to a motor or both when they reach end of travel or jammed for any reason and at any point going up or down. Relay in the module only sets Direction of the motors. Power switching is done by the "transistor" called a MOSFET for each motor. If load sensing fails etc then the module has a backup timer that shut off after ~5 sec so you will never see a "ticking" motor that can kill the battery.
Originally posted by jmbishop: This is awesome, I've got my first 86 I hadn't planned on swapping to 87+ headlights because the wiring is currently working. If I start having problems, I'll have a new option.
Adding Gen2 can be expensive but hard work is bs. I cover 2 conversions in my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor Getting a module and wiring is a bit hard now but you can get new Gen2 motors from Cardone. While many do swap whole Fiero front harness many do not and get needed parts from other cars because GM use same setup on several other car lines but small charges to module wiring so might need to wire a Fiero a bit different. 84 w/ AC has 2 speed rad fan and Dodgerunner swap is fairy easy and saves rad fan wiring.
And here I thought it was a really innovative worthwhile device that would benefit many. I can't believe how wrong I was on this one.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
And here I thought it was a really innovative worthwhile device that would benefit many. I can't believe how wrong I was on this one.
One thing is a guarantee, if you come up with a great idea for a new product or modification on something existing, the ogre will chime in and tell you how it won't work or is illegal/dangerous. We just might as well stop trying to fix these old cars and just let them fade away.
One thing is a guarantee, if you come up with a great idea for a new product or modification on something existing, the ogre will chime in and tell you how it won't work or is illegal/dangerous.
I would have thought that as for as many years Rodney has been around here, he'd have noticed that too but obviously I was wrong.
By the same line of reasoning, an Iron Duke gets the car from Point A to Point B so why even bother with a swap? 3800, V8, whatever.
I think it's a superb idea. If relays are shot, they're shot. Whether the motors need reworking or not. Please proceed. (And I'm not even in the market, since I own 88s.)
Originally posted by Rodney: And here I thought it was a really innovative worthwhile device that would benefit many. I can't believe how wrong I was on this one.
If just changing relays would fix Gen1 problems is a nice idea. But Relays are not the root cause of many problems. Often dead relays/switches for anything are a symptom but most just replace the relays/switches and say done.
Better relays w/ "snubbers" may last longer and even give more power vs OE but many to most will still have same root cause and if "they" tie any problems with your update... Could be like morons dumping gas on fires then suing gas can maker and sellers. (Blitz went bankrupt several years ago and still getting sued.)
On your page... "They replace them with rebuilt headlight motors but many times still experience the same problems. Some replace the relays but again still have the same problems." Because many people fixing/rebuilding either systems have little to no clue exactly how they work or what the real problem is and often blindly replace many parts hoping they fix the problem. Cliff tried to fix Gen2 module and ended up frying the module and both motors. How many engine problem threads where they replace everything and engine still have same problem? I lost count 15+ years ago. Same thing happens when you hear Fiero brakes always suck.
You list same ground problems killing other things with low volt problems covered in my Cave, Electric Motors. Example: Many replace the Fuel Pump and/or the relay several times and still blame the pump or relay but root cause is a low volt problem and will continue to kill those parts. So you have new grounds... Good but Power side of the unit still could have problems because still get power thru Fusible links C & D and HL switch that goes thru C100 and the rest of car. Yes You/buyer can add new power feed from the battery but if done even a little wrong the wire can easily start a fire. (Is why many fusible links are near the battery.)
Even GM got tired w/ Gen1 problems they spend $ to develop Gen 2 system. GM bean counters would kill Gen2 development right from the start w/o many good reasons to do the project. Gen2 has problems too but nowhere near the problems w/ Gen1 and likely less warranty calls for HL motor problems. Remember Same Gen1 system was use by Corvette and others for many years.
Originally posted by seajai: One thing is a guarantee, if you come up with a great idea for a new product or modification on something existing, the ogre will chime in and tell you how it won't work or is illegal/dangerous.
I worked on this for a really long time. Spent a lot of time and money on my first idea. Some time and money on my next idea and then a fair amount on my third idea. I'm very proud that my third idea works and IMO is an excellent idea and an excellent and well needed product for Fiero's and Firebirds. IMO there is no reason for one bozo to butt in and trash my idea right from day one. If in the long run there are problems anyone will be welcome to state their opinions. But what a jerk to start trashing my idea before I even start selling them and seeing them in action. We installed one in an 84 Indy and it works exceptionally well. Yes, exceptionally well. t is my fault. I said I would not announce it here. Only on the facebook site. I had a feeling this would happen here. And it did.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I worked on this for a really long time. Spent a lot of time and money on my first idea. Some time and money on my next idea and then a fair amount on my third idea. I'm very proud that my third idea works and IMO is an excellent idea and an excellent and well needed product for Fiero's and Firebirds. IMO there is no reason for one bozo to butt in and trash my idea right from day one. If in the long run there are problems anyone will be welcome to state their opinions. But what a jerk to start trashing my idea before I even start selling them and seeing them in action. We installed one in an 84 Indy and it works exceptionally well. Yes, exceptionally well. t is my fault. I said I would not announce it here. Only on the facebook site. I had a feeling this would happen here. And it did.
This is what people seem to do here. What's worse, when they trash someone for trying, they don't ever offer an alternative solution just an opinion on why it's not worth it. The really strange thing is they actually think they're being helpful in some way.
For what it's worth..... If I need it for the car, and Rodney makes a direct replacement or an upgraded 'problem solver', that's who I'm buying it from! As for this latest offering, No where in his text does Rodney say that this item magically repairs defective motors. If I hadn't already upgraded to a gen 2 system, I would be pressing the button for this upgrade.
Originally posted by theogre: Adding Gen2 can be expensive but hard work is bs. I cover 2 conversions in my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor Getting a module and wiring is a bit hard now but you can get new Gen2 motors from Cardone. While many do swap whole Fiero front harness many do not and get needed parts from other cars because GM use same setup on several other car lines but small charges to module wiring so might need to wire a Fiero a bit different. 84 w/ AC has 2 speed rad fan and Dodgerunner swap is fairy easy and saves rad fan wiring.
I have all the 2nd gen parts on hand and I've probably done more swaps to 2nd gen headlights than you. I don't remember saying it was hard work.
I know it's not going to go over well but I've got to say it. All your posts have been obstinate and you're reading things that aren't in people's posts. Are you OK? Are things going well at home? Age catching up to you?
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 04-13-2017).]
Originally posted by jmbishop: I have all the 2nd gen parts on hand and I've probably done more swaps to 2nd gen headlights than you. I don't remember saying it was hard work.
I know it's not going to go over well but I've got to say it. All your posts have been obstinate and you're reading things that aren't in people's posts. Are you OK? Are things going well at home? Age catching up to you?
You didn't but others have and in this thread like...
quote
Originally posted by Rodney: I know changing to the 87/88 system is certainly nice. Not that many complete 87/88 take outs are ever available these days. Takes a fair amount of work to install. If you have good 84-86 headlight motors, in my opinion, adding this kit will make the 84-86 motors work almost forever with no problems. I have heard owners say the 87/88 is faster and quieter and I'll agree with that from what I have seen. After we installed this kit in that 84 Indy they were quite fast and not noisy at all. I think part of the noise is the 84-86 motors running at a lower voltage.
Again Dodgerunner swap is fairy easy and cut/splice same wires or less if you can save all motor side wiring. (He clean up that too but isn't a requirement.) But Rodney think swapping harder is vs he's product?
Yes, His New relay assembly etc may help but he's comparing to 30+ parts, little proof what the problem is and most just believes whatever claims.
Originally posted by Rodney: I worked on this for a really long time. Spent a lot of time and money on my first idea. Some time and money on my next idea and then a fair amount on my third idea. I'm very proud that my third idea works and IMO is an excellent idea and an excellent and well needed product for Fiero's and Firebirds. IMO there is no reason for one bozo to butt in and trash my idea right from day one. If in the long run there are problems anyone will be welcome to state their opinions. But what a jerk to start trashing my idea before I even start selling them and seeing them in action. We installed one in an 84 Indy and it works exceptionally well. Yes, exceptionally well. t is my fault. I said I would not announce it here. Only on the facebook site. I had a feeling this would happen here. And it did.
The product may work for some and not for others because of what I said above. And Most buyers will have No Clue what wrong.
But Your god and won't be challenged by anyone. And now saying you're going to FB blaming others for your choice?
Sound more like a 5 year old taking his ball and running to mommy.
Or did you just want your ego stroked by starting "Sardonyx247 is a lair and why I am no longer involved here" bs knowing most would run to support you but should be in the Trash Can right from the start. And now here doing same?
Sound more like a 5 year old taking his ball and running to mommy.
Regardless what a wack job like you has to say about this, IMO, this is an excellent new product that will help many 84-86 owners in the years to come. Many.
I have no idea why a wack job like you is ripping on this. Really.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
[This message has been edited by Rodney (edited 04-14-2017).]
Originally posted by theogre: And now saying you're going to FB blaming others for your choice?
Ogre almost never says anything positive about new offerings. Please consider making these for those of us who need them.
The ogre pisses in everyone's cornflakes, I wouldn't let it get you down. Everyone else seems positive about your efforts. I think it's a great idea to help update and repair an old system. I have purchased many of your products over the years
That guy is helpful but sometimes hard headed and refuses to see new ideas.
From Facebook.
You have a long history of posting negative things about my new products and things posted by others. Obviously you find a lot of joy in doing just that. Many tell me to just ignore you.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Originally posted by Rodney: Ogre almost never says anything positive about new offerings. Please consider making these for those of us who need them.
The ogre pisses in everyone's cornflakes, I wouldn't let it get you down. Everyone else seems positive about your efforts. I think it's a great idea to help update and repair an old system. I have purchased many of your products over the years
That guy is helpful but sometimes hard headed and refuses to see new ideas.
From Facebook.
You have a long history of posting negative things about my new products and things posted by others. Obviously you find a lot of joy in doing just that. Many tell me to just ignore you.
more like Everyone who doesn't agree with your is now a Troll and/or a moron. No surprise. Zuckerberg, Musk, and others have a god complex too but they have Billions to play the game.
Now you quote Facebook? How pathetic. Many "new ideas" are illegal or dangerous like many LED and Brake "upgrades." BTR and others sells anything and FU if a product is illegal.
Unlike you I don't pick a line or two to quote an attack. And almost no-one adds their Signature to every post.
Originally posted by theogre: Now you quote Facebook? How pathetic. .
You are the one that first posted the Facebook information. What a dill weed.
Bash this invention all you want. I doubt it deters few if any 84-86 Fiero owners from installing it in their 84-86 Fiero.
Curses, foiled again.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Unlike you I don't pick a line or two to quote an attack. .
The question is: why do you start these attacks? Does this bring you some type of personal satisfaction/joy??
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
It's been suspected for a while but now it's confirmed. OGRE has in fact confirmed that RODNEY is GOD Now we know how he creates such outstanding products and it often arrives at your door just as you press the 'send funds' tab. Happy Easter!
Just remember folks, the Fiero community is international. I love the Ogres cave. Not everything is illegal or dangerous everywhere just because it is so somewhere in America. Rodney's parts are good and available. That beats no parts anywhere in my book whether or not you think they will work or not. Even If they work for 10% of people that's better than no parts and no people. Rodney, make what you want, people will buy what they want. Pretty sure people will want this.
I'll take one of these upgrade kits asap....How much?
Rodney, I've bought numerous things from you over the years and the quality has ALWAYS been first rate and often would have been a deal at twice the price.....IMHO, you are a valued treasure in the Fiero community......You allow us to keep our cars running Good and for that I Thank You......Continue with the great and valuable work and just keep on shinin'!
For someone who recently got luckily by having a parts car with an isolation relay, (since I picked up a car with a non working one). It's nice to be able to have a replacement part available that doesn't require switching to gen2 motors.
I worked on this for a really long time. Spent a lot of time and money on my first idea. Some time and money on my next idea and then a fair amount on my third idea. I'm very proud that my third idea works and IMO is an excellent idea and an excellent and well needed product for Fiero's and Firebirds. IMO there is no reason for one bozo to butt in and trash my idea right from day one. If in the long run there are problems anyone will be welcome to state their opinions. But what a jerk to start trashing my idea before I even start selling them and seeing them in action. We installed one in an 84 Indy and it works exceptionally well. Yes, exceptionally well. t is my fault. I said I would not announce it here. Only on the facebook site. I had a feeling this would happen here. And it did.
But someone does the same thing for GT taillights and you butt in and trash it from the start?
But someone does the same thing for GT taillights and you butt in and trash it from the start?
What's good for the goose...
Hardly. I gave my full support to that person in the beginning. Over time I could see this person was a compulsive/pathological liar. I challenged this persons pathological/ compulsive lies. I never said one bad thing about the product he/she/whatever was making. I'll do the same to anyone else that ever comes here and posts a trail of lies etc. I seriously hate liars. One of my shortcomings I guess.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Not to jump in and get entangled with something I shouldn't; but I respect both Rodney and Ogre (Ogre and Rodney, if anyone wants to claim preference because of sequence [put it in whichever sequence you want]). They've both been on here for almost as long as I've been alive (born 1996), and they've both been helpful to the community.
Rodney: you have helped me multiple times. You even found someone with an 85-86 Muncie 4speed so I could get the bracket on the transmission to get my car back on the road. And that's not even counting how many parts I've ordered from you.
Ogre: you have a wealth of knowledge of laws and stuff I would never even have delved into if it wasn't for your cave. I appreciate your constant reminders of what is lawful, it helps keep it in the back of our minds.
Back on topic: my dad actually put in the 87-88 headlight motors and wiring in my Fiero years ago. But, in the process of fixing it up and replacing the gears and bumpers, the passenger side kept on getting stuck in the lowered position. So I put in the 84-86 headlight motors and wiring and rebuilt the motors, haven't had a problem with them in any way; other than a really odd battery draining issue that is NOT because of the rubber gasket at the top being in the improper position. The gasket is in the proper position, but I just leave the single wiring coming from the relays on the motors disconnected so it doesn't drain the battery. I'm looking forward to seeing if your kit helps with that odd problem and makes them run smoother over all.
I can see both sides to the story here. But the greater triumph here is a better option for our gen 1 headlights (hey Rodney, add early C4 Corvettes to your list of prospective buyers!). The only problem here is that many folks are thoroughly frustrated at their gen 1 headlights and may purchase this product as a cure-all when the headlight motors themselves are still in need of repair. I own 2 Fieros and an 85 trans am, I have gone through a lot of the headlight issues and am happy to say all of mine currently work, and I can diagnose issues with confidence. I am always aggravated when I discover a gen 1 relay went bad, they get tougher to find at the yards and I am rather resourceful about them. So, aside from potential customers looking for a band-aid fix when they're pulling their hair out, this product has a ton of potential. Is there a price point for these yet?
