I see it daily at work the older people are still active but younger people do not care for cars as a general rule.
It has been show even many do not really care about getting a driver license until they are 20 years old in many areas.
They are all about tech gadgets, Smart Phones and video games. The auto enthusiast segment is shrinking in general. There are still some kids who have the love but in general many kids and people have turn cars into just a way to get around when for so long the automobile was a part of ones image.
We are selling more performance parts as ever but we are selling them to a older group than ever too.
Most performance cars are over $30K, Insurance if under 25 years old is impossible to afford and there are no more cheap RWD performance cars out there anymore. The days of the $2000 Chevelle SS are long over.
Times have changes and we are seeing a generation raised in Camrys and Accords come to the point they have no passion for cars and who can blame them. Add to this the brain washing of Global Warming in Schools to the point that many see us the performance car people as the evil ones who are hell bent on doing in the Polar Bears and flooding Manhattan.
I often have to show my son there is another side to some of the things he is taught in school and show him who some of the people behind these schemes are. It goes a lot deeper than just Al Gore. Look up Maurice Strong and see just where it all started and how he is now a Billionaire for it hiding in China. That is the inconvenient truth they leave out in the school lessons. Same for the Carbon Trade Board in Chicago. Few bother to mention that nearly all the income for Tesla is from selling EV credits and not cars.
Sorry for the rant but the fact is we are no longer the cool segment of society anymore and in some cases we are seen as the bad guys to some of the young people.
Add to that the Fiero is at that age where it will decline in cars and owners. Once a car hits 30 years old the numbers drop fast and the number of good examples, parts and people willing to invest in them are getting smaller. Add to that the cost of restoring a Fiero out weighs the value in most cases. At that point you do it for love not investment or any hope of a return of your investment.
Welcome to the present day car hobby it is not for the weak or the timid.
Wow great points and I agree with your statements especially about the political crap going on.
Bibles, guns and fast cars!!!!!!!!! Love it.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 12-08-2013).]
I noticed some have mentioned clubs and the lack of attendance. This is not just a car club thing. I am the Grand Knight of a local Knights of Columbus council at church and we have "on the books" 37 + members. I cant get 12 to show up to a short monthly meeting! I am lucky if a handful of officers show up!
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 12-08-2013).]
The one time I drove my Fiero to work nobody under 30 knew what it was except a few car guys. Every guy in high school or college knows a Mustang/Camaro/Miata/MR2/240SX/WRX (I think you get the picture), but the Fiero is largely forgotten. I think that's the major issue. The only reason I knew about them is because my dad and brother in law has/had a few of them. If there was a way to get these old cars some exposure that would be fantastic,and exactly what these cars need to keep them from fading into obscurity. By the way, I stumbled on to this forum researching Fieros to see what the most common issues were, as I did with the fore mention cars.
Edit: How about getting Fieros into the larger racing Sims? I know Gran Turismo 6 and the newest Forza are both lacking the Fiero, along with many other racing games. This is one of the main ways I know of to get younger people interested in little known cars, by putting them into the media they access. I know there's not a lot we can do to get our cars included, but it's worth a shot, right?
[This message has been edited by Oopssorry (edited 12-08-2013).]
I agree, we need to get these cars some exposure. The good kind. I was thinking a reality show about a FIERO shop that deals with engine swaps and body mods to show how these cars can be restored or modified to be almost unlimited based on ones imagination. They can go to car shows, show the history and as long as this shop has interesting, humorous and attractive people, I think it would be a hit! If it gets popular, then there will be a flood of new interest and the cars will skyrocket in price as people will want to get one and trick it out. Supply and demand. we already know the supply is low. Create the demand and the supply will see a big increase in price. Unless you all feel the price is where you want to keep it....
[This message has been edited by RED87SE (edited 12-08-2013).]
maybe with the right story line, Chip Foose would do one, or one of the other car shows that feature rebuilding vintage cars. There's a application on the shows website asking for submissions but the person is not supposed to know they've been nominated. So if anyone wants to nominate me I'm giving permission!!!
mine's in storage for the next 3-4 months. i'll never know.
seriously tho there are a few fellows out there certainly deserving the chance to have their cars redone or finished.
[This message has been edited by Grantman (edited 12-08-2013).]
I also go on model railroad forums daily and their heavily moderated to the point of being extreme. You feel and you are walking on eggshells if you begin to get only a tiny bit controversial. I like political and other on the Off Topic forum.
I agree that there are plus sides to this forum not being moderated heavily, or like alot of forums.. rediculously. Its up to each of us what we do with folks who bicker, etc. I mean we arent children, even if some act like it.
There was a memorial for Paul Walker the Fast and Furious star in Valancia yesterday which is near me. 5,000 attended and a impromptu car show of Fast and Furious type cars of 2,000 cars. When I go to street rod and muscle cars era car shows I see mostly old guys like me. This was newer current type performance cars. I had V8 hot rods all my life and now old I have sports cars. Sports cars don't get junked as fast as regular cars, people hang on to them.
There are many factors, but as many people alluded to, I think the wind of time is pushing the Fiero into a very small niche.
It was always niche, but 10 plus years ago, you could pick a Fiero up cheap and have it as a daily driver.
I think it is becoming very rare not just to find one but people driving them as daily drivers. I know there are many who still do, but I've owned six Fieros in my life. The one I have now is garage kept and under car cover. I wouldn't dream of driving it as a daily driver. But the ones I had in the past were daily drivers.
My current one is in awesome shape and I plan to keep it for life. But I rarely ever see them around at all and I even travel extensively across the nation. I get real excited when ever I actually do see one though, but it is rare.
I've seen several die hard Fiero fans pass away through time . Although I believe the Fiero community is getting smaller, what is left of us are the die hard enthusiasts, which is a good thing.
[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 12-10-2013).]
If it helps at all, Forza Motorsport's Heavy Metal Affliction just did a story about my Fiero, and I was able to get Pennock's mentioned in it. Here is the link: HMA
I noticed some have mentioned clubs and the lack of attendance. This is not just a car club thing. I am the Grand Knight of a local Knights of Columbus council at church and we have "on the books" 37 + members. I cant get 12 to show up to a short monthly meeting! I am lucky if a handful of officers show up!
I guess it depends, could it be an online meeting? Is anything going to happen at the meeting, or is it just because people think they are supposed to have one every month? Sometimes I think having a meeting every month where nothing happens burns people out. Not saying yours are like that, just a perspective.
I submitted my car to Rockauto for their email news letter of cars using Rockauto parts. Of course nothing happened. I wonder if they would take any notice if they got deluged with pictures and comments about Fieros. Also they list car clubs in their news letter emails. What if again they got a lot of hits for this forum. It's not a club but # speak louder....
Would it be worth doing a write in campaign to Rockauto just to see what would happen?
Just a thought.
Know their news letter would only be seen by some customers but........
There are other like sites this could probably be done on also...
its an odd complex but my buddy brought this up to me the other day, people in there 30's and 40's who had these cars back in the day are now wanting to get something like that they had again. this is why back in the day you can get a 69 Camaro brand new for $5000, in the peek of the 90's ad early 2000's they could not be touched running driving and show worthy for under $50000, Now their prices are starting to drop down because teens and 20's of that time are starting to get old and less interested in cars, I bet within the next 10 years if the economy gets back on track we are going to start seeing a slight raise in price of thinks like fiero's 80's and 90's 2000's trans am's/ Camaros, Turbocharged Eclipses, 300ZX, Stelth/3000GT's and other cars of that nature, Why? because now people of the age group above me are now getting into their midlife crisis stage and wanting to get into Now I don't think they will go as high as what cars of the 60's reached but it is a pretty ascertainable concept as to how cars age and value.
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-21-2013).]
We started ourifamily a little later in life. But my friends have kids that are at the age of driving and they seem to bit be as interested. . Someone said this before too.
Cost of car maintenance, gas, insurance makes it a no go. Who can blame them. For the most part a car is a money pit and a bad investment. I think they still like the idea but it seems like am unattainable one for most.
There is the issue with the economy and generation change too. Being 40 I see how it is, even in the work place. .. much different interests than when I was their age.
Suburbia living has changed too. Younger people want to live downtown so some big companies are even moving back into those areas to attract talent. Unless something changes the car is a dying breed so to say
I know I am guilty, but enthusiasts seem to horde the REALLY nice Fieros. Many don't mind holding onto them. Not because the will go up in value, but each has something they always wanted. I'm liquidizing many of mine to get down to two really cool ones. Everyone I sell to doesn't seem to know about PFF, and it up to the members to keep the word of mouth to strengthen this valuable resource.
I echo the sentiments of the fellow above. I am down to 7 fiero's and planning to keep the two coolest ones (88 ttop and 88 gt 3800sc)
I am now 32, have a young child and I am super busy at work. When I was in my early 20s I was vp of a thriving car club (j-body) and used to post a ton on forums. Now I have more PM's and posts in the Mall trying to get the parts I want and dont discuss much. A lot of forums are dying off in the last years. If anyone feels bad about the fiero's slowing down a bit (I do, Cliffs original post made me a bit sad, is that weird? haha) ... check the grand prix forums out. Huge drop over the last two years.
Ps. did I also mention I love the Grand Prix in my family? But worse than the fieros, I discovered that the strut towers (And rockers etc) are rotted on the majority of GPs up north.
Over the last year and a half there were 350-400+ hp 3800sc GTP beasts going for 2-3k and this is from a car that was over 40k new.
I would agree however..... back when you started this a web hosting was not cheap like it is today it was expensive servers that were full with content would get a lot of traffic a site without content would never survive. During this time all homes got connected to the web and it was booming. When the cheap bandwidth arrived then came a billion sites all taking away more surfers all of a sudden web sites didn't need lots of content or the expense of dedicated hosting to make a website popular or trade traffic. Once people flocked directly to the content but now the web is packed full of it.
Everyone one is asking why traffic is declining but everyone on the web now has a personal site making them now amateur webmasters and all wanting to be popular. Social media sites have the hits and unlike search engines people are not moving on from the engine they are talking lingering returning back their likes or homepages getting the info fed to them. One problem is the sites that fail to make a profit close down along with their links page so less back links for the niche in general.
The fiero is getting older with less roadworthy cars and less businesses involved selling parts making less back links. The web is getting bigger variety is taking over. Having the generic keyword is your best tool. There are just so many contributing factors. Web sites a decade old would get more traffic when new.
If PFF disappeared tomorrow I would go through a serious set of withdrawal symptoms...but it is slowly getting to the point where the site is slowing down to the point where it's not as relevant as it used to be. When I come once a day and hardly anything as been posted since yesterday then I'm wondering if I even need to check it once a day? Then it becomes every other day, once a week and soon I can't remember the last time I checked the site.
It's sad, but the cycle of life is happening and people are moving on to the next thing in their life. Funny I was checking out Corvairs on eBay. I must be a glutton for punishment, lol.
for me the only reason i hadn't joined sooner was the isp email thing, i found this place through google when i bought my first car you guys helped me fix er up and it was my daily driver for two years up till a couple months ago when I crashed it unfortunatly. I graduated from universal technical institute September and am currently enrolled in the BMW STEP program to become a bmw technician, that being said ive learned more on this forum about cars in general than i did at uti. I hope to become a staple here once i get on my feet, i have ideas for engine swaps and upgrades i just havnt had the disposable income while in school, And i plan on posting all on here and attending events once i get another fiero.... i love the fiero and all my classmates and almost everyone i know laughes at me for it...... they don't know what they are missing.
Originally posted by Josh52894: almost everyone i know laughes at me for it...... they don't know what they are missing.
Show those people the threads about the swaps done here like FieroX 3800SC 10sec 1/4 mile and the SuperCharged LS7 ''Perfect Union'' that ought to shut them up !!!! ... welcome to this madness and best of luck in your endeavours Regards Danyel
Im in a program full of Honda loving punks who think performance is slapping a turbo on a 1.5L. they prefer metric tools and imports. of course ive had a lot of positive reactions, too and every time I would get outta the car someone would be there to ask me a question. but at UTI and BMW I get a lot of crap... from people who claim to be car guys.
I guess I didn't realize that, I was just trying to give an example of how times are changing standard is almost non existent now days. my generation has no appreciation for old cars, v8s, rear wheel drive. just trying to contribute.
When I started driving we were all driving Mustang, Camaro & Firebirds. It’s a common statement, So what age does that make me? It would be hard to say. With 48 years of production compared to the 5 for the Fiero you can see why those are the first to come to mind.
As we drove the gen 1 muscle cars (they were daily drivers for us) the car shows were stacked full of the 29-34 years, they were big dogs. As the next generation started showing cars the muscle cars were the hot item and it showed in their value as they rocketed.
The Fiero will always be a small nitch and will stand up with others like the Corvair, Pinto, Grimlin, Opal GT, Bricklin…. Oh I could go on. If you talk to the folks that own them they are just as passionate about what ever they have just as we are with our Fieros.
As the unrestored Fieros slowly die off (and us too) to become parts for our premium cars the Fiero will settle in place for the history books, but will always have a cult following.
Myself I see less people in cars all together… I don’t see the younger crowd coming in as heavy as before. When I was 15 and got my license I had two cars and all of my friends had cars. We were cruising for chicks, test fitting the back seat, hanging out and showing our cars off, how we tricked them out as our fathers before us had done. It was a bonding thing.. It was our Facebook!
Online is where life is for a lot of people now. I don’t have to be there as long as I can see a photo and read about it. We have so many I can’t even keep track of them all. I don’t think its dying just spread out over so many sites, and more are just reading the info but don’t interact with postings…. I think the same is for the car shows too… User names, passwords are killing me I don’t know about you….
Online car shows - Not a physical one? Group forums - Not club meetings.? Who would have ever thought....I don't have time is the common talk... I think people have been stating that from the start of life....
Today we have so many youngsters that don’t even have a license or a car…. Sure we have a lot that do but not like the old days. I think you see a split with cars, on one side you have the car junky and the other I don’t need it so I won’t for what ever reason.
With the limited custom parts and the unique layout and design of the Fiero is both what drives us to it but also drives some away. It’s the same but completely different to work on, not as easy like a Mustang or Camaro to some. Myself I find it enjoyable, like a clean slate to go wild. I have a new gen Camaro but I keep it stock, the only mods are factory accessories my Fieros are for tricking.
My wife and I have 4 Fieros right now with plans to sell off 2 of them to make room for some other toys. As long as we are able to drive I’m sure we will keep our 2 till the end.
So is the Fiero a dying nitch? No I don’t think so. It’s just settling into place….. What other American car from 80s come to mind? The 70’s back were the trend setters.
Rides: 85 Fiero Gt, Green "Grasshopper", 86 Fiero GT, Blue, V8 " Snapperhead" 2013 Fierorama Best of Show Non-Stock, 87 GT Met Orange, 88 Formula White stock soon to be 4.9 met Blue like Snapperhead--- 10 Camaro, 99 K2500 Suburban, 04 Trailblazer
[This message has been edited by Snapperhead (edited 01-15-2014).]
When I was 15 and got my license I had two cars and all of my friends had cars. We were cruising for chicks, test fitting the back seat, hanging out and showing our cars off, how we tricked them out as our fathers before us had done. It was a bonding thing.. It was our Facebook!
Looks good. I may take some photos of my modified -engine/body- and almost done 87GT today. If I do, I'll post them here on your Facebook page.
As for declining interest: From a parts provider's view, we've -trueleo.com- seen a steady decline in orders for our intake manifolds and headers. Some of which can be attributed to the fact that many are encouraged not to rebuild or modify their 2.8 and go the swap route. Which I suspect, has also sent many a Fiero to the scrap yard early; whereas a lot owners simply don't have the where-with-all to do a swap, nor the time. Another item adding to the decline, -not greatly- is the reluctance of manufacture support for such limited market. To be blunt, a lot of Fiero owners won't/can't pay for limit production products. BTW: I didn't state what I did to drum up orders, we have more than enough to do, besides, my back's still not all that great and we are not currently taking orders anyway.
Good luck with your site. Cliff. It's the best by far.
I notice that the younger generation seem to be less car enthusiasts than my generation. I was fortunate to be able to experience the 50's, 60's and on car craze. l was born in 1950 so I am OLD. I have noticed a few young people seem to still be involved. My son is 27 and is taking after his old man. He is an engineer ( unfortunately I was going to but met his mother and well live happens) working on ABS systems and gets to go to the track and test systems. Man I would do that for free.
I think also that the economy has a lot to do with discretionary income( that would be used to purchase and up grade cars like the Fiero) and the fact most do not have it or it is less, and so cars and projects get put on the back burner.
Your correct about that young man -born in 44 here- There are less and less gear-heads and car freaks out every year. A good mechanic can find a job in day. You have to admit, today's younger wrenches, though fewer in numbers, are more knowledgeable than we were; they have to be.
Just a quick thought because I just went and got my mail, my sons mail was also there. He received his magazine ( Muscle Mustangs and fast fords ) Has anyone ever seen a Fiero Magazine ? I don't remember one . Younger people did not know them so can't remember them, don't see a lot of them, don't drive them , and can't even read about them. I wonder how many are left , and how many of those run, you read about so many being parted out.
Your correct about that young man -born in 44 here- There are less and less gear-heads and car freaks out every year. A good mechanic can find a job in day. You have to admit, today's younger wrenches, though fewer in numbers, are more knowledgeable than we were; they have to be.
Very true. We are in need of techs…. When I was a service manager it was very hard to find techs, they could almost name their price, and a good one could.
Rides: 85 Fiero Gt, Green "Grasshopper", 86 Fiero GT, Blue, V8 " Snapperhead" 2013 Fierorama Best of Show Non-Stock, 87 GT Met Orange, 88 Formula White stock soon to be 4.9 met Blue like Snapperhead--- 10 Camaro, 99 K2500 Suburban, 04 Trailblazer
I am 62 and I bought my first Fiero, an 85 2M4, when I was 61 when searching for a cheap sports car to work on and enjoy when I was retired on a lower income. I had never even thought about Fiero's until I saw the craigslist ad for mine. I discovered this site through a goggle search and it has been fantastic! Without it I would have taken much longer to get my $500 Fiero back on the road. I thank you for this site its a great resource and I hope its around for a long time. I'm not a fan of face book, I actually think it has led to a lot of bad things happening and quite a few people who post are religious or political bullies. Cliff, if you wanted to institute a $5 or $10 annual membership fee I would gladly pay it.
. Although I believe the Fiero community is getting smaller, what is left of us are the die hard enthusiasts, which is a good thing.
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/francis4
