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Is the Fiero market a dying niche? by Cliff Pennock
Started on: 11-22-2013 10:30 AM
Replies: 235 (6481 views)
Last post by: svpbeast on 05-29-2014 03:43 AM
hyperv6
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Report this Post11-25-2013 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see it daily at work the older people are still active but younger people do not care for cars as a general rule.

It has been show even many do not really care about getting a driver license until they are 20 years old in many areas.

They are all about tech gadgets, Smart Phones and video games. The auto enthusiast segment is shrinking in general. There are still some kids who have the love but in general many kids and people have turn cars into just a way to get around when for so long the automobile was a part of ones image.

We are selling more performance parts as ever but we are selling them to a older group than ever too.

Most performance cars are over $30K, Insurance if under 25 years old is impossible to afford and there are no more cheap RWD performance cars out there anymore. The days of the $2000 Chevelle SS are long over.

Times have changes and we are seeing a generation raised in Camrys and Accords come to the point they have no passion for cars and who can blame them. Add to this the brain washing of Global Warming in Schools to the point that many see us the performance car people as the evil ones who are hell bent on doing in the Polar Bears and flooding Manhattan.

I often have to show my son there is another side to some of the things he is taught in school and show him who some of the people behind these schemes are. It goes a lot deeper than just Al Gore. Look up Maurice Strong and see just where it all started and how he is now a Billionaire for it hiding in China. That is the inconvenient truth they leave out in the school lessons. Same for the Carbon Trade Board in Chicago. Few bother to mention that nearly all the income for Tesla is from selling EV credits and not cars.

Sorry for the rant but the fact is we are no longer the cool segment of society anymore and in some cases we are seen as the bad guys to some of the young people.

Add to that the Fiero is at that age where it will decline in cars and owners. Once a car hits 30 years old the numbers drop fast and the number of good examples, parts and people willing to invest in them are getting smaller. Add to that the cost of restoring a Fiero out weighs the value in most cases. At that point you do it for love not investment or any hope of a return of your investment.

Welcome to the present day car hobby it is not for the weak or the timid.
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johnlp1994
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Report this Post11-25-2013 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnlp1994Click Here to Email johnlp1994Send a Private Message to johnlp1994Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is my very first post on this site although ive been lurking for close to 2 years (well before i had a account) im 19 and i had never heard of a fiero until 2 1/2 years ago when i got one from a friend, i was very interested and even though it was just a 84 se coupe with the duke and isuzu combo and everything in the world wrong with it i still thought it was the coolest car in the world, i drove it for a few months untill it was stolen and i didnt get it back. after i pulled out of losing that car i decided i wanted to learn more about them and everything that can be done to them, i then found PFF and was hooked for life after i seen some of the cars on here (car-lo RBS, madcurl, and archies in specific) the amount that can be done to these cars astonishes me and i love every possibilty of the outcomes you can have with these cars. im currently selling my favorite truck to be able to have another go at a fiero because by me there becoming an endagerd species and ive notice part vendors starting to slow down or dissapere all together. to some it up if it werent for this amazing site i would have never been able to find this mass amount of information on fieros nor would i be completely in love with these cars. i would deffanitly help to contribute to this site staying up, this is far to much information to let dissapere like some of the other forums i used to be on
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Report this Post11-25-2013 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Honestly though these days cars...... who really would be impressed by them... I see a 69 Camaro, firebird, charger etc as a work of art.... I see these newer things as plastic pieces of junk. I enjoy the fiero because they are truly a what ever your heart desires car, and one day when I can get a hold of a bare frame and practice fiberglassing I'm going to do something really cool with one.
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Raydar
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Report this Post11-25-2013 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

A similar thread on Saturnfans talking about declines:
"Membership loss rate? "

http://www.saturnfans.com/f...wthread.php?t=196153


Interesting that you should post that. A friend of mine is about to get into Saturns in a big way. He's also a Fiero guy (although not registered here.)
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Report this Post11-26-2013 04:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobugClick Here to Email fierobugSend a Private Message to fierobugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bought first fiero gt three years ago, God said it is time. Felt like christmas! This forum has saved me thousands of dollars. Decline or not I'm here to stay to the bitter end. lol. Thanks Cliff for and awesome creation. You are a great captain of the ship! Time for a donation. Can't always take, take, take. Don't worry I know I'm nuts but I sure love fieros.
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2.5
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Report this Post11-26-2013 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Interesting that you should post that. A friend of mine is about to get into Saturns in a big way. He's also a Fiero guy (although not registered here.)


Its a good site. Not near as good as PFF. But good.
I've had 2 older Saturns, good cars, great mileage. They are sort of a late cousin of Fiero as well.
I sort of posted that to say alot of forum traffic is down, its not just the cars in particular.
That Site runs all Saturn models though 2009, over 20 years later than Fiero and has a percieved decline.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-26-2013).]

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2.5
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Report this Post11-26-2013 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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Member since May 2007
 
quote
Originally posted by johnlp1994:

i then found PFF and was hooked for life after i seen some of the cars on here (car-lo RBS, madcurl, and archies in specific) the amount that can be done to these cars astonishes me and i love every possibilty of the outcomes you can have with these cars.


Welcome aboard!
Heres the million dollar question

How did you hear about us?

Maybe new members signing up could be auto-asked this in a text field.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-26-2013).]

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kendallville
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Report this Post11-26-2013 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I post less in the Fall and Winter, more in the summer when I work on the car ( note I did not say drive ) . I am working on it a lot
more than driving it so I have questions and no other place to get answers. The only thing that breaks down more is my computers,
and that also affects how often I post. On the up side my 27 year old son still has his 86 and wants me to help restore it and, now
my 13 year old daughter wants me to restore one for her when she gets old enough to drive ( she wanted mine ).
I read posts more than I do reply or start posts, I find I do not always have anything of any value to add . I do think It would be a great
loss if PFF was no longer around or if these cars would be lost.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-26-2013 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:

Honestly though these days cars...... who really would be impressed by them... I see a 69 Camaro, firebird, charger etc as a work of art.... I see these newer things as plastic pieces of junk. I enjoy the fiero because they are truly a what ever your heart desires car, and one day when I can get a hold of a bare frame and practice fiberglassing I'm going to do something really cool with one.


I like em all!

I have own and drive all the great cars of the 60's and while neat they are far from perfect. Generally most were not built all that well and were never as fast stock as some would like to remember.

Today they are a bit technical and over prices but the go, stop and turn in ways even the best of the 60's could never even think of doing. My HHR Turbo is faster than my stock 68 Chevelle SS ever thought about being. Also it can take a back road faster than the Chevelle ever could. We are really in the golden age of performance right now. We will have performance in the future but it will be found in many different ways than just a V8. There will be a time 30 years from now many will look back and wish for these days as they will come to a close by 2025 unless the government regulation are changed. The V8 is in the last years as while we will still have one it will be in less cars and much more expensive as time passes.

But the issue here is every car see's a decline in fans and owner ship and the Fiero is just hitting this span. The dedicated will preserve the cars left worth working with and the segment is not going to grow as there are no more cars being built and the cost to restore one is generally more than the value. The same is true for GTO owners, Trans Am owners etc.

While we may not be as popular we will be more exclusive.

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johnlp1994
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Report this Post11-26-2013 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for johnlp1994Click Here to Email johnlp1994Send a Private Message to johnlp1994Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Welcome aboard!
Heres the million dollar question

How did you hear about us?

Maybe new members signing up could be auto-asked this in a text field.



thankyou and after my first fiero was gone one of my other friends told me they had a fast back so out of the curiosity i looked it up on google then found PFF on the links, that would be a good idea
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Report this Post11-26-2013 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, as being part of the younger generation, I do love the Fieros. But, between college, wanting newer tech, and a finite amount of time / money...I had to get rid of my Fiero. I now DD a e36 328is

Then you have another part of the equation...youth (mostly) don't like American cars. My exception was the Fiero and old muscle. Many detest anything to do with American auto industry. Plus lots of peer pressure / bad info not to buy a Fiero, plus more bad stock drive train stuff. It all begins to add up.

And, as others have stated...people are dying off, newer things are coming out. It happens, and it's a shame....doesn't help that sites promote MR2s and bash fieros (jalopnik).
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Report this Post11-29-2013 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChristineClick Here to Email ChristineSend a Private Message to ChristineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Facebook killed mu Mile High Fieros forum so I do not like Facebook and only joined and made a page because Mile High Fieros has a page and I needed to be able to post events and stuff. I am not a fan of it and think it falls sort of the forums but many people want it so I had to go with it to keep the club active, as our club forum is pretty much dead now I used to get a lot of traffic on it but now it is deserted. I have not shut it down yet but I have thought about it, I left it up thinking that when Facebook fades away it might come back. Here is a link if anyone wants to see how dead it is. http://milehighfieros.fr.yuku.com/directory

As far as Pennock’s goes I think it will survive the Facebook age and stay a viable forum I still come here often, I do not post much and never really have but I visit and read the threads at least 4-5 days a week, I guess I am a reader more than a writer. I also do post links to Pennock’s on Facebook if people ask questions on Facebook that this forum has answers for, so I hope this forum stays up for as long as there are Fieros on the road.

Cliff Thanks for making and maintaining this forum, I am one of the ones that will continue to come here and enjoy this forum. I think I will have to buy you a beer or 10.
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Report this Post11-30-2013 01:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CaravanBillSend a Private Message to CaravanBillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nearly all of the reasons listed in the posts above correctly identify the various reasons for the declining numbers on PFF, but which are the primary drivers of decine?

I think the #1 reason is the changing interests and values in today's younger demographics. There is evidence that the trend for "cars as a hobby" is on the decline. Check out this very similar discussion on a different forum.

Many young people are shunning cars altogether as discussed in this recent article. They see car ownership as overly expensive and largely unnecessary.

But some contingent of avid owners will always exist, and there will always be a need for an information resource. Cliff, the value of this forum is in the wisdom embodied in the advice and discussion that takes place here. I believe it is likely that the metrics on PFF will continue to decline, but there will always be some number of active users and there will always be people with technical questions who would continually benefit from the historical search. So my advice is to avoid shutting down this site at all costs and find a ways to reduce your operations and maintenance costs to as little as possible so it becomes easy to maintain.

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Report this Post11-30-2013 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FormulaDukeSend a Private Message to FormulaDukeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree that if it wasn't for Pennocks, I probably would not be enjoying my "new" old 88 Duke/WS6 as much as I do. And it's probably the reason I want another in 6 months, hopefully a metallic red or white 88 Formula 5speed. But in all fairness to those who destroy the cars, wrecking yards, most are just a phone call away. Most don't know what to do with them. And as for less parts available through the usual sources, Fiero Store, Dickmans, Fiero Factory, as long as we go to Autozone etc. to get facsimile parts cheap, the aforementioned have less incentive to be Fiero enrolled. There is a bunch of Fieros in Las Vegas, owned by the Las Vegas Fiero Club, (http://lasvegasfieroclub.org/ ) over 150+ mostly nochies, that sit baking away in the desert sun. The club tells me there isn't much call for parts as there used to be. On the other hand, they don't do internet sales at all...it's all by phone. OLD SCHOOL....real humans talking to you. They do crush a few, even with panels attached, but they gotta make money, and they are perfectly willing to sell the cars outright as they are. I'm in Texas, but there is FedEx, UPS, USPS, Greyhound Ground delivery...) Maybe we need to spend time combing our own backyards and local salvage yards for them? Maybe we need to spread the Fiero fever around? Change your FB cover photo to one of your car? Internationally, maybe a bunch of us need to just be enrolled in networking our cars and our obsession worldwide through the social networks we have now. And yeah, just like in facebook, there are these antagonistic, "acerbic", type "F" individuals that gotta' Rain on the Parade. But Cliff did mention on another page that he is adamant about keeping this an open forum, without constriction of speech and opinion. Maybe we should unleash OGRE on them?
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post11-30-2013 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm 32 and still love my fieros! I don't post much anymore because I'm much more busy than I was 5 years ago. I'm now married and have twins. I still love this place and want to see it continue. I've noticed there are less "car guys " everywhere these days. Not sure if it's the economy or what.

------------------

88 Coupe: 2.0L Turbo 4 Cylinder, W2A, T25 Turbo.
84 Indy #64: Restoration Project, Super Duty 4 swap

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Report this Post12-01-2013 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fst4rscClick Here to Email fst4rscSend a Private Message to fst4rscEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have really enjoyed this site and would like to see it stay more or less as it is.
I dont mind advertising if its not too intrusive. It pays the bills.
I use the search function quite a bit and usually find lots of info already posted.

I dont really have that much to add so I dont post very often. Perhaps if the threads were not archived, I could add a thank you that such and such worked or add a little something that I discovered that was useful. Maybe if a thread has a lot of thank yous or other activity by multiple users, its turned into a technical wiki supplementing Ogre's Cave.

Maybe old threads with little response and little technical value should just be deleted. Maybe you could have a volunteer comittee of trusted members that would vote on permanently deleting old inactive threads.

I was talking cars with some young guys recently and I mentioned I had a Fiero. They were genuinely interested and thought Fieros were cool. Lots of people like them but maybe not as many want to own one. Probably the way the Fiero always was. There is a lot of competition for other hobby cars to choose from so the market for Fieros will probably never be hot.
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Report this Post12-01-2013 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drake87Send a Private Message to drake87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's not just the Fiero community Cliff, the automotive enthusiast is a dying breed. This can be seen in all the circles, not just our own, if the rest of you would look beyond the Fiero, it would become apparent. We live in a world where 10 mph over is a huge ticket, and if you get caught racing, kiss you license goodbye. Jeremy Clarkson once spoke of us, and our predicament:
"We are an endangered species you and I. We lovers of speed; we devotees of power, performance and noise. 'Go away,' we are told, 'and take your carbon fiber and your fire spitting V12's with you.' There's hardly a place for us out here anymore, not among all the commuters and congestion, not in this growing age of safety and restraint. Where practicality trumps adrenaline, where the ratio of miles to the gallon is championed over the ratio of horsepower to the weight. The evidence is everywhere; you and I are being squeezed out, pushed aside, and hunted down at every hair-pin turn."
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Report this Post12-01-2013 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nutherproject68Send a Private Message to nutherproject68Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For me personally, I don't visit PFF as much anymore because I learned enough about Fieros that I can do almost anything on the, without having to look up information on the project. Also, the last month or two that I visited the forum regularly seemed different than when I first joined. I felt that more people were posting useless or incorrect information when I question was asked.

I guess one other thing is the increased popularity of social networking sites. I think more people are posting questions on Facebook group pages than they did in the past.
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Report this Post12-01-2013 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Proud88GTClick Here to visit Proud88GT's HomePageClick Here to Email Proud88GTSend a Private Message to Proud88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Because of the bad economy over the last few years the car community has changed a little bit. Some cars now have new owners etc that may not know about PFF. I too have seen a decline in car community with no real future from the youth or new people interested in older cars etc. I was at the Turkey Rod Run this weekend at Daytona and it has been the fourth straight year that cars for sale out numbered cars being shown. It was better this year than in years past but still a lot of cars trying to find new owners that harder to find. Only time will change this as the economy starts to improve more.
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Report this Post12-01-2013 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bjc 350Send a Private Message to bjc 350Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I finally took the time to read this whole thread. So, most of the points have been hashed over several times. But, I really believe the ECONOMY is the major culprit. And, many of us Fiero nuts are retirees as well. So, when times are rough and your income is fixed, are you going to rebuild another Fiero? As far as the youth movement, the 85 GT I refurbished and sold a couple years ago went to a woman in her early 30's. The 84 I refurbished and sold went to the lady I bought it from- in her mid 40's. The 88 GT I sold this summer went to a 17 year old high school boy. He, his brother and parents drove about 4 hours to buy it. The older brother 19, already had a Fiero. They loved them, but said a lot of their friends didn't understand why. The point is, there are enough younger people to appreciate the car, but the economy holds us all back to some extent. More so for some than others. Keep it up Cliff, your site has helped me with a retirement hobby that keeps me thinking young.

edit for spelling.

[This message has been edited by bjc 350 (edited 12-01-2013).]

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Report this Post12-02-2013 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CarcenomyClick Here to visit Carcenomy's HomePageSend a Private Message to CarcenomyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to throw in my two cents...

Forums everywhere are way down. Indeed I'm going to be killing my gaming forum in the next month or two as the only traffic phpBB is reporting is web crawlers. Facebook is #1 contributor to this phenomenon.

The Fiero itself has never been a common thing where I live anyway, so I hardly notice - I'm seemingly the only enthusiast for hundreds of kilometres. My dad's the only exception.
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Report this Post12-02-2013 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-02-2013).]

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Report this Post12-02-2013 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierobugClick Here to Email fierobugSend a Private Message to fierobugEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is an awesome T-shirt.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post12-02-2013 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One reason many older posters do not post as often is we have covered most things how many times. How many times can you argue over the same things until you get tired of it.

These things go in cycles too.

I read a lot here but just do not post as much as I used too. I am not alone as I know many other readers who just do not post often.
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Report this Post12-06-2013 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Seems like this thread has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Is it just me or has the forum noticeably become less active in the last few days? Or maybe it always does that around the holidays and I just never noticed?

Cliff, what is a person supposed to do? GFC is now holding almost 4 days worth of threads on page 1. At this rate there's barely enough for me to read once a week. We need some new life in this forum. Maybe add a section for the new mustang? (okay start throwing the tomatoes)

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Report this Post12-06-2013 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ona side note, I see some new members popped up in tech recently
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ericjon262
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Report this Post12-06-2013 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Reasons I am not as active on PFF anymore:

1. This site needs moderators (plural) the rating system sucks. it's flat out broken IMO.

2. the ratings system. too many valuable minds have been banished because someone gets butt-hurt and then mob mentality takes over. to many people get all bent out of shape if someone calls you a name, or better yet, ask someone to back up a claim, that's almost a surefire way to get banned here.

3. Stickies. I see the same question pop up over and over again, sometimes 2-3 times in a week, over stupid stuff (ie my headlights don't work) don't make a new section, make a stickie thread so it's blatantly visible in the section it needs to be in.

4. Better organization. thirdgen.org or even RFT is a good example of a more well organized forum, the subforums aren't hidden, and there are enough moderators (point 1) to move the threads to where they need to be. both of the other two forums are much easier to search and browse IMO compared to PFF.

I understand you've (Cliff) put alot of work into making PFF what it is, but personally, I think it's in desperate need of a rebuild. take what you want from it, it's your site.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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OHNIKO
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Report this Post12-06-2013 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OHNIKOClick Here to Email OHNIKOSend a Private Message to OHNIKOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'VE CONTRIBUTED and used this site for years. Admittedly, I'm more of a lurker now than a poster. I'm busier, working more, more time with other projects/family (less time online), and so I think economic times may also play in as a factor for many.
It would been a lot tougher to keep our cars running without it.
This forum beats facebook any day for information, regional/group announcements, sharing & soliciting opinions (lots, lol) and is a central depository for so much info.
Best forum out there in terms of people, info quantity & quality and assistance from others.
Feedback system for vendors is priceless & saved my efforts, $, time so often.
Bottom line, it's a priceless resource.
Also keep in mind folks that as our cars get closer to or being 'finished' (lol), we don't use as many online sources as much for reference/assistance (ie. like anything online...mostly used as needed).
I also know that our local/regional forums get used more for more personal tech help, parts swapping, local events, lending a hand in person etc.

So Cliff, to answer your question, yes, it is smaller in terms of activity, but will never die.

------------------
RATE ME IF YOU LIKE MY CRUISES!!!
1985 RED & SILVER CUSTOM GT 2.8 V6...IT LOOKS NICE!

Original 18" x 8" Motegi Roja's, 225-40-ZR18's front, 265-35-ZR18's rears, coil-overs, KYB shocks & struts, 2.5" drop, K&N filters, Holley side scoop, upgraded front & rear sway bars, poly, fully loaded, tinted, & some other nice custom stuff...

1985 GT SILVER CONVERSION PROJECT, 3800 SC SII powered, doesn't look as nice (yet), but it sure goes!

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Report this Post12-06-2013 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Me? I'm here every day. The Forum is my home page.

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

Reasons I am not as active on PFF anymore:

1. This site needs moderators (plural) the rating system sucks. it's flat out broken IMO.

2. the ratings system. too many valuable minds have been banished because someone gets butt-hurt and then mob mentality takes over. to many people get all bent out of shape if someone calls you a name, or better yet, ask someone to back up a claim, that's almost a surefire way to get banned here.

3. Stickies. I see the same question pop up over and over again, sometimes 2-3 times in a week, over stupid stuff (ie my headlights don't work) don't make a new section, make a stickie thread so it's blatantly visible in the section it needs to be in.

4. Better organization. thirdgen.org or even RFT is a good example of a more well organized forum, the subforums aren't hidden, and there are enough moderators (point 1) to move the threads to where they need to be. both of the other two forums are much easier to search and browse IMO compared to PFF.

I understand you've (Cliff) put alot of work into making PFF what it is, but personally, I think it's in desperate need of a rebuild. take what you want from it, it's your site.



I don't disagree about the need for moderators.

Most of the folks who I've seen banned, who I wish were still around, were NOT banned by the ratings system. They were banned because they "poked the bear". i.e., they were directly warned not to do something and did anyway. I would have preferred that they were given a timeout - even a long one, like a week or a month - instead. Multiple timeouts might be worthy of a ban. Or not.

There are, IMO, too may people who are held accountable because they have too many ratings, and would require an inordinate number of negatives to make them go away. I would prefer to see someone given a timeout or probation, by a much smaller ratio of negs to positives. The "sliding arrow" thing seems to not be working too well, IMHO.
I disagree about the mob mentality and "valuable resources" being banned because someone got "butthurt".
One person was banned twice. While he was technically knowledgeable, he was inflammatory. People get tired of seeing the same people accosting other people, time after time. There are a couple of others who need a timeout.

I think stickies are a wonderful idea. We should be able to vote on them. I only say that because Cliff can't see/read every thread. He might miss something that the regulars see as valuable. If they are not wanted at the top of the section, they could be moved to one of the other "help" sections (construction zone or the "FAQs and How-to" section.)

I like the organization of the forums okay. You can't please everybody.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post12-06-2013 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I think stickies are a wonderful idea. We should be able to vote on them. I only say that because Cliff can't see/read every thread. He might miss something that the regulars see as valuable. If they are not wanted at the top of the section, they could be moved to one of the other "help" sections (construction zone or the "FAQs and How-to" section.)


what's worked on most other forums, is when a post is deemed valuable, people comment that it should be a stickie, and then one of the moderators makes it happen. Again, this site needs moderators (plural).

the FAQ and how to sections aren't the same as a stickie, a stickie is right there where it needs to be, FAQ is too vague, you could have something about brakes in one thread, and right below it a thread about windshield wipers. A stickie about brakes would be in the brakes section, so when you have trouble with your brakes, you go to the brakes section and wala, there it is, no digging through decades old threads to find what you need. no new post asking how to do a grand am brake swap is necessary.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post12-06-2013 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

One person was banned twice. While he was technically knowledgeable, he was inflammatory. People get tired of seeing the same people accosting other people, time after time.


There have been a few of those. Whereas they used to be a great resource, they either lost interest or grew bored and instead started to make fun of or ridicule those who asked questions or wanted to do such-and-such work on their Fieros. We are probably thinking of the same person or persons.

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Report this Post12-06-2013 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe the ban feature wouldn't be so necessary if a person could choose to ignore a troublemaker and their posts simply don't appear on my browser. In that case they can post all they want.
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Report this Post12-06-2013 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for V8 VegaClick Here to Email V8 VegaSend a Private Message to V8 VegaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wrecked and sold my 87 GT a few months ago so I don't have a Fiero anymore and still read Pennock's every morning and night,(I'm retired). I am a car enthusiast and this is a very good and interesting forum. My Fiero wouldn't be easy to fix, the guy who bought it new that and he was excited to get it,he got a car that was worth $3,000 before for $600. I think Fieros will be popular for a long time yet. It' will die down some but continue.
I also go on model railroad forums daily and their heavily moderated to the point of being extreme. You feel and you are walking on eggshells if you begin to get only a tiny bit controversial. I like political and other on the Off Topic forum.

[This message has been edited by V8 Vega (edited 12-06-2013).]

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Report this Post12-07-2013 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wouldn't mind seeing some stickies, but those really need to be compilation threads where all the greatest threads on a single topic are consolidated into a single thread with links to supporting info. One problem with stickies is that often times they can have out dated info as technology or processes or parts evolve if the owner of the sticky doesn't go back and revise it for current info from time to time. For example on LS1 tech in the LS4 section there is an LS4 intake swap sticky is called LS1/LS6 intake swap... but now several LS2 intake swaps have been done. Also the very first sentence in the sticky says a FAST won't fit the LS4 and in the last year that swap has been done as well. So while that thread has a lot of great info, it also has a lot of mis-information. Additionally the process to perform the swap has evolved as more people have done it, so now there are 5 or 10 different ways to accomplish each step.

The other issue with great detail oriented or long term build threads packed with info and pictures is most people won't take the time to search page by page in a 50+ page thread for the specific info they are looking for. The best thing for any technical thread over 3-5 pages is to go back to the first page and add a table of contents for the thread similar to what was done in the newest project thread. This is something all the thread owners of major threads can do and should make time to do. Cliff could even do something to highlight the threads with tables of contents so people know it has one to speed up search for info within it.

 
quote
Originally posted by bubbajoexxx:

Building a Newest Project thread table of contents for myself due to the length.
Then I thought I should share with everyone, so here's the Table of Contents:

Page
1 12 inch stretch wagon concept with N* / Porsche transaxle / Webber fuel system

2 Stripped down and stretch welded together / Dellorto carbs / 2001 Northstar

3 Hinged Fiberglass wagon roof / Modified stretched side scoops

4 Original carb spacers installed on Northstar

5 Kammback wagons / Belt driven distributor idea

6 Transadapter plate / Cost effectiveness / Diff rotation direction

7 Stock shifter cable / Custom fabricated headers / Oil cooler / Exhaust with Supertraps / 12 inch 1985 Corvette front brakes (adapter and concentric ring)

8 Specs & drawings on brake adapters / 1972-1980 Corvette master cylinder / Link to more Bubbajoexxx pictures on his site

9 Steps of 12" 88 Corvette rotors front brake swap with link / Corvair hubs for larger bearings and 5x4-3/4 bolt pattern / Rear Corvette brake adapter brackets 84-87 and 88-96

10 Diamond plate engine bay / Northstar lowered into stretched engine bay / HPV1 stand alone ignition system

11 Rear caliper adapter bracket drawings / Link to audio clip of first fire up of Northstar

12 Guages converted to V8 / Firebird dash swap with LCD TV / 94 Firebird console / Porsche 356 intake runners mod with link

13 Carpeted firewall to match console and dash / Link to frame stretch steps with pics / Dual radiator setup in side scoops / Poll on wagon vs. notchback vs. fastback vs. hatchback

14 The member brainstorming continues with photoshops of the front runner idea of a clear hatch glass over the engine

15 Firebird wrap around rear spoiler idea / Shots of the contents where trunk used to be / Bubbajoexxx goes ahead with 3rd Gen Camaro glass hatch

16 Steps with pics of the rear hatch installation using sheet metal molds and fiberglass / Photoshop in tangerine orange / Bubbajoe's trademark black satin roof treatment

17 More pics of the hatch install with forum member brainstorming on scoops on the b-pillar or roof / Search for rear wing / Carb setup to change to velocity stacks

18 88 Daytona wraparound spoiler chosen / Details and pics of the Fiero rear decklid being bonded to the Camaro decklid / Rear defroster on hatchglass

19 Rear Fiero latch to be used with custom hook / Cliff Pennock makes backup of thread / Corvette C5 17/18" rims / Front Corvair hub upgrade for larger bearings and correct bolt pattern for rims

20 Details on upgrading the rear with modified S10 - Blazer or S15 - Jimmy uprights to fit Corvette C4 brake upgrade and new Corvette C5 rim bolt pattern

21 Buildup of adjustable rear coilover struts / Suggestion to send completed pics to Pontiac Enthusiast, Hot Rod, and GM High Performance magazines

22 Roof section reinstalled to match slope of rear hatch using SMC bonding agent / Fiberglass work to finish shape / Rear 89 Daytona wraparound wing modifications and installation

23 Indy Fiero hood emblem restored and customized / Cliff's notes version of build to date / Idea to customize Fiero rear tailights

24 Upgrade to C5 Corvette rear suspension - buildup with pics / This car was a 100% Indy saved from being parted out

25 New custom fabrication of engine cradle to upgrade with the C5 rear suspension arms

26 Lambo Muira was to be Bubba's next build / Audi TT 5 speed short throw shifter upgrade / Aluminum cradle bushings but rubber transaxle and engine mounts / DVD and LCD monitor

27 Audi TT gas cap mod / Link to Factory Five's GTM / New 4-channel remote for accessories

28 Audi TT shifter is installed into Firebird console / Replaced the GT aero nose with an 87 Formula style and rear bumper upgrade begins

29 Old cradle removed with engine suspended on stand so new rear suspension can be installed / Rear bearing and knuckle mods sizes with pics / Rear strut towers removed

30 Hub and bearing discussion with GM part numbers and pictures (S10 Blazer and C5 Corvette)

31 Bubba's Fiero Computer chair / Removal of rear body panels for frame upgrade now that shock towers are removed / Winter in Canada!

32 Front trunk compartment and weight distribution discussion / Driver's side of new rear frame progress / Corvette rear brake upgrade questions

33 Passenger side frame upgrade progress / New rear frame section built to suit the Corvette suspension / Splicing the frame together

34 The rear cli[p and hatch are reassembled / Next evolution of carburator intakes to clear hatch

35 Flare of rear fenders utilizing old notchie clip to widen 2 inches with step by step instructions and detailed pics / Pictures of the complete car back on the ground / Photoshop updates

36 Discussion on removing bodyside mouldings / Fabricating and fitting new rear inner fender flares with pictures

37 Corvette vertical grills with idea of using as replacement side scoops / Photoshop ideas on scoops and removing Sail Panels

38 Discussion on Norm's Fiberglass front end / Bubba explains his limitations physically / Lots of pictures showing finish work on the rear fenders and scoops

39 Louvers or no louvers - forum members vote their opinions / Discussions on what parts would be used for a custom front suspension build up

40 Headliner and sun visors redone / Forum members photoshop and make suggestions on custom side skirts

41 Photoshop brainstorming for a new custom rear end to match side skirts and involves new exhaust and possibly new tailights

42 More development on a new look for the rear of the project / Bubbajoe builds a model replica of his car's frame

43 Shots of the front of the engine showing the pickup for the HPV1 and clearance to the firewall / Dellorto carb info

44 Side skirts go on - contest to guess what they came off of (Caravan) / Hood is refinished / BMW Mini side indicators in front fenders / Front air dam project begins

45 Tons of pictures of the overall car in primer after the front air dam was completed and bolted on / Many compliments from forum members

46 Work begins making a custom rear valance using a bumper cover as a starting mold / Builds attachment brackets to make yet another bolt on part / Work on a barge board for the rear diffuser

47 Rear valance grill to allow hot air to escape out the back / A louvered plate is built to smooth the underside of the car and connects to the side skirts / Custom all red
sequential tailight are made

48 Rear deck upgrade bonded SMC so no metal to rust / New exhaust setup with vertical muffler and four tips under the license plate / Details on spark plug wires custom made

49 Old Fiero front suspension is picked up so that Bubba can design an 84-87 coilover upgrade / New custom machined billet aluminum intakes are made and installed for the carbs

50 Pictures of the installed custom made driveaxles / Fuel lines upgrades / Portable garage / Hatch to roof hinge pics / Fan assisted oil cooler / youtube links to engine sound / 240Z Breathers

51 Hatch strut info / Spark plug wire details / Northstar spark plug covers / Rear decklid intake vents / Electric vacuum brakes buildup / Bubbajoe advises of his car accident / Desktop computer pics

52 Torque discussion on the Porsche 902 transaxle used from the 914 vs. other Porsche units / Radiator intake scoop upgrade

53 Pontiac G6 6-speed HP/Torque rating vs. Porsche 902 unit / Link to Porsche transaxle information / On April 11th, Bubbajoe explains that he is selling the project due to health reasons

54 $10K in the project plus labour but only asking $2K / He wants the project to live on and get to a new home not scraped / Kind words from many forum members / Fiero2m8 is the new owner!

55 Table of Contents / Shift linkage and ride height adjustment / Carburator cleaning / Video of sequential tail lights wired up and functional

56 Dash panel finish work / new slave cylinder and oil pressure sensor / 4 wheel alignment / New windshield installed / Pictures from 25th Fiero show in Pontiac & MIS / Glass hatch window tinting

57 Niagara Wine Route cruise pics / Bubbajoe gets a ride with Fiero2m8 in the newest project / Corvette hood swap / Fiero room is built / rear window shatters

58 88 suspension picked up in TN from late forum member Skoon / Indy seats are refurbished with Mr. Mikes / Pontiac delete from headlight panel / Custom rear window build at glass shop

59 Headlight motor swap / inner dew wipes replaced / DVD monitor, speakers, amps and Subwoofer / Sunroof leaking mod / pics of custom cradle / Decision on full restoration after body removed

60 80-85 Cadillac Seville hub bearings / Porsche transaxle rebuilt / custom pressure plate and kevlar clutch / Northstar dismantled and removed / Space frame painting / panels in primer

61 Transaxle paint / Northstar rebuild / Suspension powdercoating / parts painting / paint order / Air filters, condenser and fan arrive / Ceramic coated headers / 88 cross member install underway

62 Bubbajoe completes Caddy hub bearing upgrade / Silver Indy decals custom made / 88 suspension mounts fabricated / C5 rear suspension powder coated / Mercedes daily driver repair

63 Bearing strength discussion / first pics of painted body panels / buildup of 88 front suspension swap / modded poly bushings for 88 sway bar / front trunk fabrication / pcv manifold

64 Electric vacuum pump for power brakes relocated / front of rebuilt Northstar is dressed with crank sensor, pulleys and serpentine belt / engine cradle reinstalled / C5 rear suspension reassembly

65 Discussion on flywheel bolt torque / #1 cylinder location / Z06 rear sway bar install / stainless brake flex hoses / coolant system, water pump drive and spark plug wire assembly / vacuum tube plumbing

66 Fuel filter install / cross drilling of rear rotors / First startup of 2011 video / new starter install / Optima yellow top / fixing fuel system leaks / finishing of brake system with chrome MC and EBC red stuff pads

67 Throttle linkage repair / stainless rad hose install / copy of of Table of Contents now on page 1, post 1 / rebalance carburator with bent throttle shaft / further discussion on hub bearing upgrade

68 Finishing cooling system / playing around with Cadillac intake cover / worked on wiring new LED reverse lights and tidying up harness with wiring loom / worked on redesign of throttle linkage setup

69 Retuned shifter linkage / painted underside of some body panels / tinted rear tailights / started reassembly of body panels at rear of Fiero / repaired sequential lights and finished rear wiring / reinstalled sunroof panel, fenders, hood, decklid, spoiler, front bumper cover, apron and sideskirts / new decklid vent

70 Smooth door handles / LED clear indicator lens / Door panel assembly, fit and adjustment / ride height adjust / interior door panel reassembly / LED dome lights / Headlight install / headliner recovering / wiring loom upgrade to cool tube / Test drive for photos / found that 4th 5th not working so transaxle removed again

71 Transaxle fixed, painted and re-installed / Transaxle removed again for clutch and pressure plate upgrade / finished building trunk in front compartment / finished with indoor-outdoor carpet / upgraded tailights to LED and reinstalled sequential controls / installed chrome coolant tubing / bought spare transaxle from Bubbajoe / waterproofed roof with new hardware

72 Upholster of headliner and rear window trim panel / new sunroof tracks and seal installation / new slave cylinder install on spare powdercoated Porsche 914 transaxle / reinstall and adjustment of clutch and transaxle / inner dew wipe install / transaxle seal replaced to fix leak

73 Adjusting front ride height by swapping coil insulator with a 3/4" rubber spacer / Flowmaster mufflers installation / List of steps to remove Fiero body panels / Carb rejetting / Repair of broken CV joint / doublec4 HID headlamps build up / GM Powertrain show 2012 pics / Chassis dyno video and results

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-07-2013).]

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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post12-07-2013 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

Reasons I am not as active on PFF anymore:





I come here everyday, dont have a lot to say anymore but I still read the forum.
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Report this Post12-07-2013 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CoFieroGt:

I'm 27 years old about to be 28 I just recently bought my Fiero and joined the forum I honestly think that the fact you have to have an ISP email address might detour a lot of people from joining. I realize it keeps some of the spammers out and and keeps people from trash talking a bit but I never used my ISP email until I joined this forum had to actually call Comcast to figure out what it was. Other than that though I think part of the reason for decline in posts could be the fact that people are actually searching the existing posts and finding answers instead of just posting questions.


I thought that changed a long time ago? I have Yahoo email and they ARE my isp for AT&T.
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Gto1966
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Report this Post12-07-2013 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gto1966Click Here to Email Gto1966Send a Private Message to Gto1966Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Evidently I am more of a reader than a poster. I almost daily frequent O/T. I also feel that car enthusiasts in general are dwindling. I had the pleasure of attending Cruising the coast this year, I believe there was over 7,000 cars registered and I only saw two Fiero's. (Both of which I am now friends with on Facebook)
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Report this Post12-08-2013 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

facebook.... eh.... not a fan.... not great for searching and such.... eh... this is better!


I agree. I dropped my facebook several years ago. Way to much junk/worthless crap on it. I dont care to hear why your toenails are blue green and swelling.
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solotwo
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Report this Post12-08-2013 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

I'm 32 and still love my fieros! I don't post much anymore because I'm much more busy than I was 5 years ago. I'm now married and have twins. I still love this place and want to see it continue. I've noticed there are less "car guys " everywhere these days. Not sure if it's the economy or what.



I notice that the younger generation seem to be less car enthusiasts than my generation. I was fortunate to be able to experience the 50's, 60's and on car craze. l was born in 1950 so I am OLD. I have noticed a few young people seem to still be involved. My son is 27 and is taking after his old man. He is an engineer ( unfortunately I was going to but met his mother and well live happens) working on ABS systems and gets to go to the track and test systems. Man I would do that for free.

I think also that the economy has a lot to do with discretionary income( that would be used to purchase and up grade cars like the Fiero) and the fact most do not have it or it is less, and so cars and projects get put on the back burner.
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Report this Post12-08-2013 12:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

solotwo

5341 posts
Member since Jun 2002
Oh also I think some one mentioned time. I for one do not have the time that I used to go to the forum, due to working two part time jobs while doing endless job searches for real employment. So this is the first time I have been on for any length time in about two weeks.
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