quote Originally posted by Wichita: So Santa is Satan?

Personally Id say its a bit of a stretch, more of an Idol maybe, but there is all this stuff suggesting at least some representations:

"Question: What does the scripture say concerning Satan?

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!FYI: Scripture says how art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning, in which Lucifer is the name of the devil, and when the devil fell from heaven, he weaken the nations, he brought them low.

Question: What did the devil say when he fell from heaven?

Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:FYI: The devil said he would be exalted like God and he will sit in the sides of the North. Now is it a coincidence, that Santa lives in the North and can ascend to the heavens above the stars by getting in his sled and flying with God like powers? The devil wants to be on top of the world, which means he wants to be in charge like God he wants to rule. So if the devil is on top of the earth ruling, then he would be sitting on the North sitting on a throne, such as the North Pole.

Question: What did the people say they are in agreement with?

Isaiah 28:15 - Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

FYI: They said with hell are we at agreement, in which this is what the people say when they tell their kids there is a such thing as Santa Claus. Why, because Santa means Satan, and Claus means agreement, so with Satan are the people in agreement, because they are offering the souls of their children unto death.

Question: What does God say?

Zechariah 2:6 - Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

FYI: Remember Satan said he would be exalted like God right, and here God says Ho ho, is it a coincidence that Santa says Ho ho ho also?

Question: How does God look?

Revelation 1:14 - His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

FYI: God head and his hairs are white like wool, as white as snow, is it a coincidence that Santa head and hairs are white like wool, as white as snow? God's eyes are as a flame of fire, is it a coincidence that Santa eyes are fiery red and twinkle?

Question: What else does God do?

Matthew 19:14 - But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

FYI: God calls children to come unto him, is it a coincidence that Santa calls children to come unto him?

Question: What about the hour of the coming of the Lord?

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

FYI: God cometh at an hour when no man knows, is it a coincidence that Santa comes at an hour know man knows?

Question: What does God tell us?

Philippians 2:13-14 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

FYI: God worketh in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, is it a coincidence that Santa says be good for goodness sakes?

Question: What else does God do?

Revelation 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

FYI: God will reward according to who's written in the book of life, is it a coincidence that Santa rewards according to who's written on his list? God knows who's been bad and good, is it a coincidence that Santa knows who's been bad and good?

Question: So if God doesn't come through the fire, then who does?
Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
FYI: Fire isn't prepared for God, but for the devil and all those who follow his ways."

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-17-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: For the most part a large portion of Christian believers and their organizations or church are harmless and may in fact help others or the community. But there are plenty who sees their beliefs as that of a higher calling that they are above everyone else and therefore use their beliefs to take advantage of others and accept discriminatory practices. I have no doubt that the Patrick Dads of the world does the later. I've seen so many people use their Christian faith in scrupulous ways to the point that I feel that it can be a very dangerous belief that one can subscribe to.

Italics mine - in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

scru·pu·lous [skroo-pyuh-luhs]
adjective
1. having scruples; having or showing a strict regard for what one considers right; principled.
2. punctiliously or minutely careful, precise, or exact: a scrupulous performance.

Unless you mean that I carefully mean to mislead people to faith....

I have a reason to believe. I've had thirty years (well, about 29.33 years) to reflect on the decision that I made. I have read up on the world's religions as well as secular humanism, and I have found nothing that describes the condition of the world and the means to improve myself and those around me for any gain other than my own than Christianity.

Interestingly, I defend my faith, and I am called names.

Luke 6:22 “Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude you and insult you and reject you as evil on account of the Son of Man!

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: Italics mine - in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think that word means what you think it means." scru·pu·lous [skroo-pyuh-luhs] adjective 1. having scruples; having or showing a strict regard for what one considers right; principled. 2. punctiliously or minutely careful, precise, or exact: a scrupulous performance. Unless you mean that I carefully mean to mislead people to faith.... I have a reason to believe. I've had thirty years (well, about 29.33 years) to reflect on the decision that I made. I have read up on the world's religions as well as secular humanism, and I have found nothing that describes the condition of the world and the means to improve myself and those around me for any gain other than my own than Christianity. Interestingly, I defend my faith, and I am called names. Luke 6:22 “Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude you and insult you and reject you as evil on account of the Son of Man!

Meant exactly what I meant.

For example, there is a member on here (forgot the user name) that is a Calvinist. He believed with a much if not more faith than you that he is a pre-destined one that will be allowed into heaven. He with more faith than you believes he is the rightful heir and subscribes to the correct version of Christianity. Since you are not of the Calvinist Christian faith, then you will be going to hell along side the rest of us.

He will quote as many verses of the Bible to substantiate his beliefs than you can possibly cut & paste for yours.

So who says that he is wrong? He is much better at it than you, more knowledgeable in the Gospels than you, has a much more stronger faith than you. He makes a better case that he is a chosen one. You are the Esau in God's eyes!

Romans 9:13
As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-18-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Meant exactly what I meant. For example, there is a member on here (forgot the user name) that is a Calvinist. He believed with a much if not more faith than you that he is a pre-destined one that will be allowed into heaven. He with more faith than you believes he is the rightful heir and subscribes to the correct version of Christianity. Since you are not of the Calvinist Christian faith, then you will be going to hell along side the rest of us. He will quote as many verses of the Bible to substantiate his beliefs than you can possibly cut & paste for yours. So who says that he is wrong? He is much better at it than you, more knowledgeable in the Gospels than you, has a much more stronger faith than you. He makes a better case that he is a chosen one. You are the Esau in God's eyes! Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

You might say that so-and-so is apparently more adept than someone else when it comes to filling out their forum posts with Biblical quotations and commentary, but I don't see how you are in any reasonable position to decide that this same so-and-so has a "stronger faith" or makes a "better case" for himself than someone else (like Patrick's Dad, in this case).

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-18-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Isaiah 14:13 - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:FYI: The devil said he would be exalted like God and he will sit in the sides of the North. Now is it a coincidence, that Santa lives in the North and can ascend to the heavens above the stars by getting in his sled and flying with God like powers? The devil wants to be on top of the world, which means he wants to be in charge like God he wants to rule. So if the devil is on top of the earth ruling, then he would be sitting on the North sitting on a throne, such as the North Pole.

Umm, wow, talk about a stretch. So the North is the top huh? Says who? Just because that's the way "we" envision the planet when we look at a globe doesn't mean it's the top. It is the pole "we" have oriented ourselves around as being the top, but is it truly pointed towards the top of the universe? Is there really a top, bottom, left or right side of the universe?

quote Originally posted by Khw: Umm, wow, talk about a stretch. So the North is the top huh? Says who? Just because that's the way "we" envision the planet when we look at a globe doesn't mean it's the top. It is the pole "we" have oriented ourselves around as being the top, but is it truly pointed towards the top of the universe? Is there really a top, bottom, left or right side of the universe?

Yep that is the most far fetched part I thought. But it is representation and symbolism. If you consider that the King James version actually says "North", and that the only place we know humans to be is earth, and if scripture is God speaking, and God knows who will read and how they perceive their world..I suppose its not as far out as it could be. Satan also said he would dwell in Zaphon. Which would be considered a most high place to the early people.

"Mount Aqra` (Arabic: جبل الأقرع‎ ǧabal al-Aqra` [ˈd͡ʒæbæl al ˈʔaqraʕ]); also known as Zaphon in the Bible, Kel Dağı in Turkish , Mount Casius to the Greeks, and Mount Hazzi to the Hurrians) is a mountain located near the mouth of the Orontes River on the Syrian-Turkish border around 10 kilometres (6.2 mi) north of Ras al-Bassit (ancient Posideium) and around 30 kilometres (19 mi) north of Ras Shamra (ancient Ugarit)."

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-18-2013).]

Okay,
Enough with the Santa is Satan BS
I have irrefutable proof that Santa and
Satan are not the same person.

Santa gave us Obamacare and He Smokes

He's So Cool
Exceeds File Size Limits :
Click To View In New Tab.

[This message has been edited by jmclemore (edited 09-18-2013).]

Topic: Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven

heaven? wtf is that? if you are an atheist - you already know its BS - so what is the assurance for? sounds more like self soothing.

it is not up to the pope - it is up to allah. but, maybe thats part of the joke?

I choose chair.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: We are taught, nay, indoctrinated in big bang theory and evolution theory ....

This word in that context and coming from you, given your beliefs, is hilarious in itself!

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: We are taught, nay, indoctrinated in big bang theory and evolution theory as soon as we hit public school. Left to our own devices, we would not concoct an infinitesimal point of nearly infinite energy in a nothingness (no space, no time) that exploded and expanded into the Universe that coalesced into stars and planets on which elements randomly got together and eventually got together the right way as to spontaneously become life....

This reply makes zero sense at all.. "indoctrinated" in the big bang? Really.. Its taught as THEORY, as in, we don't know 100% if its true or not, and that fact is acknowledged. Which is why its called "The Big Bang THEORY" In fact we did "concoct" the idea. Through years of study, observation, research, and collecting data from some of the finest minds in the world over years and years, we where able to, based on the evidence we have, "concoct" the idea of the "Big Bang".. Does that make it 100% true, nope, we could be wrong, but like i said, based on evidence, its the best we got at the moment.

Where as your religion is exactaly as you described. People are indoctrinated into it.. It is taught as cold hard fact, with zero evidence to support it.. People are supposed to accept it..... Just because..

Now you want to change your religion and say its a "theory" you have about how the universe was created.. Then fine i could at least accept that, even though you have zero evidence to even support a "theory"..

You don't give your fellow man enough credit..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 09-19-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: You don't give your fellow man enough credit..

I know that wasn't directed towards me, but i am amazed that my fellow man can find their way to work each day. Most people are idiots and they only survive due to others.. ( we have upset the balance of evolution )

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I know that wasn't directed towards me, but i am amazed that my fellow man can find their way to work each day. Most people are idiots and they only survive due to others.. ( we have upset the balance of evolution )

lol - yes - I get whatcha are sayin' - but - no - most people are NOT idiots. Its just the idiots stand out. most folk go about just fine. then one idiot comes along, and thats the person which sticks in your head at the end of the day.

and, even more fun to throw evolution into the religion thread
cant upset the balance of something which isnt real lol

but - I do fully understand the sentiment

As I mentioned earlier, this is America and we all have the right to believe what we want. (key word believe)

Nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. The moral of this thread is to be able to have friendly debate!

The problem with religious arguments in my opinion is that there is no middle ground. Most debates end in opposing parties choosing some sort of middle-ground solution. In this case that will never happen. Sadly the debate will continue for eons until either God exists and reveals himself to prove it or he doesn't exists and people continue the debate!

It has been fun

- Justin

[This message has been edited by xquaid (edited 09-19-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: lol - yes - I get whatcha are sayin' - but - no - most people are NOT idiots. Its just the idiots stand out. most folk go about just fine. then one idiot comes along, and thats the person which sticks in your head at the end of the day. and, even more fun to throw evolution into the religion thread cant upset the balance of something which isnt real lol but - I do fully understand the sentiment

I have to disagree, its the worst that stand out.. 99.9999999% of mankind are still idiots. Also evolution is real, and its not at odds with religion ( since this is a religious thread )

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: This reply makes zero sense at all.. "indoctrinated" in the big bang? Really.. Its taught as THEORY, as in, we don't know 100% if its true or not, and that fact is acknowledged. Which is why its called "The Big Bang THEORY" In fact we did "concoct" the idea. Through years of study, observation, research, and collecting data from some of the finest minds in the world over years and years, we where able to, based on the evidence we have, "concoct" the idea of the "Big Bang".. Does that make it 100% true, nope, we could be wrong, but like i said, based on evidence, its the best we got at the moment.

Quite the contrary. Lip service, at best, is given to the word, "theory." There is no room for any other "theory" when you "know" what the universe looked like "1/1,000,000th of a second after the Big Bang." Actually, earlier: http://www.space.com/13320-...steps-explainer.html

My faith is also based on evidence - not only the Man who lived 2000 years ago, but archaeological evidence that proves the existence of a people and a ruling caste right where a "heavily edited" (not my quote) said that they were. Plus, it takes greater faith to believe the chances that caused life to form as complex as we are in just the right place (not only in our solar system, but also in our galaxy) than if some Greater Intelligence placed us here for His good purposes.

quote Whereas your religion is exactly as you described. People are indoctrinated into it.. It is taught as cold hard fact, with zero evidence to support it.. People are supposed to accept it..... Just because..

I was hardly indoctrinated. As a Jew, I fought tooth and nail against the possibility that Messiah had already come. Yes, I was predisposed to believe that the Jewish people were who they said that they were, but the revelation of Christ made me look into many of the other possibilities (including secularism) and bring them to their logical conclusion. In the end, it matters, or it doesn't matter, and, if it matters, Christianity is the only one with a live God who fulfilled prophecy - including being rejected by His own - and provided a Path to God that is all "Him" and none "me."

quote Now you want to change your religion and say its a "theory" you have about how the universe was created.. Then fine i could at least accept that, even though you have zero evidence to even support a "theory".. You don't give your fellow man enough credit..

I don't think that I ever asked to change Christianity into a "theory." There are those who want ID introduced into schools as a contrasting theory, as there is a significant movement that does what it can to minimize what children learn at home or *gasp* at church/synagogue, and wants to replace it with humanism. I understand that fight, as it is a fight for our children. It is no different in how we fight for our children over rampant commercialism. The world is the way it is because everything fights the Light. You may choose to see it differently, but there it is: Light vs. Dark. My children are much too important. I could have an LS4/F40 in my Formula right now, if I wasn't paying for private, Christian schooling. They come first.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: See? Evolution presented as fact. Not the "Theory of Evolution...." By the same reason that BBT is a theory, we can't replicate the mechanism, thereby proving anything. Yet, it is taught as fact every day in our public schools. It is how a humanist guesses that we all came to be.

FYI:
http://www.nap.edu/openbook...ecord_id=6024&page=2

quote Terms Used in Describing the Nature of Science* Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as "true." Truth in science, however, is never final, and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow. Hypothesis: A tentative statement about the natural world leading to deductions that can be tested. If the deductions are verified, it becomes more probable that the hypothesis is correct. If the deductions are incorrect, the original hypothesis can be abandoned or modified. Hypotheses can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses. The contention that evolution should be taught as a "theory, not as a fact" confuses the common use of these words with the scientific use. In science, theories do not turn into facts through the accumulation of evidence. Rather, theories are the end points of science. They are understandings that develop from extensive observation, experimentation, and creative reflection. They incorporate a large body of scientific facts, laws, tested hypotheses, and logical inferences. In this sense, evolution is one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have.

"I am a citizen of the world." - Socrates

We can focus on similarities: Best approach to life!

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: My faith is also based on evidence - not only the Man who lived 2000 years ago, but archaeological evidence that proves the existence of a people and a ruling caste right where a "heavily edited" (not my quote) said that they were.

This evidence may mean that the bible accurately described people that lived in a certain place at a certain time. However, it would be a big leap to say that the evidence proves a being which is "timeless, spaceless, and immaterial," as Frank Turek put it.

Or has you have put it:

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: He is not subject to physical laws. He created physical laws, so, technically, they are subject to Him. Yes, He is everywhere, as the finite Universe does not contain Him. Height, width, depth, mass and time are, essentially, meaningless to Him. As Christ, He entered history as a corporeal being for a finite time and became subject to the conditions of life and death - hunger, temptation, desire, love, sadness, etc - to fulfill a mission and provide what we could not do for ourselves. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence would be requirements of creating the Universe in the first place. Omnibenevolence can be argued, but I believe that His one act provided for all is that, in itself.

If god exists outside of spacetime, he can't have any interaction within spacetime.

[This message has been edited by NoMoreRicers (edited 09-20-2013).]

quote Originally posted by xquaid: "I am a citizen of the world." - Socrates We can focus on similarities: Best approach to life!

No kidding. If people spent less time worrying about being right and more time just being happy all these religions of loving Gods would stop trying to kill each other.

Not sure what happened to my posts! Looks like god or the universe deleted them! Oh no! You decide. HEHE

quote Originally posted by User00013170: I have to disagree, its the worst that stand out.. 99.9999999% of mankind are still idiots. Also evolution is real, and its not at odds with religion ( since this is a religious thread )

It's not at odds with the existence of a "God", but it's very much in conflict with most religious beliefs. For starters it disproves the big- "Poof! Let there be man" premise, and it only gets worse from there. And the idea of the Bible not being a real factual recounting is something most won't even consider, even if intellectually they know it makes sense. Their conditioning won't allow it.

Let's suppose this represented my faith (Not saying that it does, or that I have any faith..) :

quote He [God] is not subject to physical laws. He created physical laws, so, technically, they are subject to Him. Yes, He is everywhere, as the finite Universe does not contain Him. Height, width, depth, mass and time are, essentially, meaningless to Him. As Christ, He entered history as a corporeal being for a finite time and became subject to the conditions of life and death - hunger, temptation, desire, love, sadness, etc - to fulfill a mission and provide what we could not do for ourselves. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence would be requirements of creating the Universe in the first place. . . .

If I believed all that (above), how could this (below) move me to reconsider anything that I just said (above)..?

quote If god exists outside of space-time, he [cannot] have any interaction within space-time.

If I think that God exists outside of space-time, and that God created space-time (as described here, at the outset), what possible reason could anyone come up with to make me think that God has any limitations, such as not being able to "interact" with space-time?

Such a "null" (ineffective) direction to pursue, in terms of a discussion!

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-20-2013).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: If I think that God exists outside of space-time, and that God created space-time (as described here, at the outset), what possible reason could anyone come up with to make me think that God has any limitations, such as not being able to "interact" with space-time?

If he interacts within space-time, then he must exist within space-time.

Inside and outside of space-time are mutually exclusive.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: Quite the contrary. Lip service, at best, is given to the word, "theory." There is no room for any other "theory" when you "know" what the universe looked like "1/1,000,000th of a second after the Big Bang." Actually, earlier: http://www.space.com/13320-...steps-explainer.html My faith is also based on evidence - not only the Man who lived 2000 years ago, but archaeological evidence that proves the existence of a people and a ruling caste right where a "heavily edited" (not my quote) said that they were. Plus, it takes greater faith to believe the chances that caused life to form as complex as we are in just the right place (not only in our solar system, but also in our galaxy) than if some Greater Intelligence placed us here for His good purposes.

Nope, still a Theory, since they have zero idea what happened before the big bang, and thats the real question isn't it? If and when they figure that part out, then you can call it a fact, until then its just a theory, a well accepted theory yes, but still just a theory, and still taught as such. What Archaeological evidence are you referring too too prove the existence of the christian god? Writings? Text? statues? Wall carvings? Peoples books and stories? How does any of that "prove" anything? Plus your going to have to explain to me how it takes MORE faith to believe that we just got lucky? and our planet formed in the right place, at the right time? A random roll of the dice.. Its how the majority of the universe works. It may seem orderly from the outside, but when you break things down and truly look at how things work, the universe is a random chaotic mess.. There is evidence on how and why our solar system ended up the way it is now, and can be explained. I think it takes WAY more faith to say "nah, your wrong, some ghost dude just snapped his fingers, and WHAMO! Earth"!. Maybe thats just me.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: I was hardly indoctrinated. As a Jew, I fought tooth and nail against the possibility that Messiah had already come. Yes, I was predisposed to believe that the Jewish people were who they said that they were, but the revelation of Christ made me look into many of the other possibilities (including secularism) and bring them to their logical conclusion. In the end, it matters, or it doesn't matter, and, if it matters, Christianity is the only one with a live God who fulfilled prophecy - including being rejected by His own - and provided a Path to God that is all "Him" and none "me."

So you chose the religion that made the most sense too you.. "just in case" it was correct.. I can respect that.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: I don't think that I ever asked to change Christianity into a "theory." There are those who want ID introduced into schools as a contrasting theory, as there is a significant movement that does what it can to minimize what children learn at home or *gasp* at church/synagogue, and wants to replace it with humanism. I understand that fight, as it is a fight for our children. It is no different in how we fight for our children over rampant commercialism. The world is the way it is because everything fights the Light. You may choose to see it differently, but there it is: Light vs. Dark. My children are much too important. I could have an LS4/F40 in my Formula right now, if I wasn't paying for private, Christian schooling. They come first.

No that was a typo by me.. It was supposed to say "Now IF you want to change your religion into a theory" Not "now you want to change".. which totally changes the context of what i was trying to say. That was my mistake..

But as for your noble sacrifice of your dream engine for your kids schooling.. I'm sure the christian sainthood committee will be contacting you soon.

Has no one considered that God = "energy" as we know it? Everything that has ever been applied to "God" could be said of energy.

In the words of my church, "there are no coincidences".

Say...

I have a new spin to this thread.

I was raised in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints (the Mormons) and feel I was partially indoctrinated by the experience. I left the faith at age 14 or so and have ever since searched for a religion that "felt right" in my heart. I've been to many, many different faith's services and have felt the same power or sense of peace at many. I have also felt a very opposite reaction at times at other sites of the same faith ( same beliefs, different city, church building, pastor, priest, etc.). I desperately want to believe in God and I do pray and feel I have a relationship with something, whether it just be in my head or the true being I hope to be there. I consider myself a Christian. However, in the Mormon faith it is taught that God (heavenly father), Jesus (his son), and the holy ghost (holy spirit) are three distinct entities. I recently found that a group of so called religious leaders got together a few hundred years or so after Jesus' death and decided that God, Jesus, and the holy spirit were all the same???? How could this be? I can understand that the holy spirit could be Jesus or God talking to you directly, but who was Jesus praying to in the garden before his death and on the cross? Himself? What? Didn't say in the Bible that 'for God so loved the earth that he gave his own begotten son' (not sure the exact wording...not going to quote scripture here).

So now if Christians believe that the holy trinity is one being, then I guess I don't know what religion I can follow. I think the Mormons have a lot right as do most faiths. If you follow the Golden Rule you're golden in my eyes.

I think that there are many different religions out there to meet the needs of many different souls and how they feel closest to God (or whatever they decide to call the almighty). Some don't need to go to a physical church to commune with God (this, I feel is my case). Others need the reassurance from the company of others to feel close to God. So be it.

It goes entirely against everything I've ever been taught in school that a God could exist, yet I yearn for it to be true. Does that make me weak? Maybe, but hope is a good thing. The last stage of grieving is acceptance. If you've accepted that you are just going to die and that is it, aren't you already dead????

Hope I put this in a very PC (I hate that term) way, but I really hope I did not offend anyone in putting my 2 cents into the conversation. It definitely wasn't my intention to do so it I did. Just wanted to share my thoughts with my fellow Fiero lovers.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Has no one considered that God = "energy" as we know it? Everything that has ever been applied to "God" could be said of energy. In the words of my church, "there are no coincidences".

Energy has no 'grand plan'. it just exists.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Energy has no 'grand plan'. it just exists.

It doesn't hate or discriminate, it requires only a path to flow through.
and with out it in some form, we are done from the atomic level forward.

Now prepare for the argument that a dead person with no measurable brain
activity proves it's all over when the lights go out, Because Christians can
not prove that an energy transfer takes place at death.

Even though many will agree that science is so mighty that it eventually
bring us teleportation and the ability to transfer our life to another body or
even machines.

quote Originally posted by jmclemore: It doesn't hate or discriminate

But 'god' does both.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: But 'god' does both.

Just because there are some religions that paint God as a jealous, obsessive, insecure girlfriend, doesn't mean that's really how "he/she/it" is.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: Just because there are some religions that paint God as a jealous, obsessive, insecure girlfriend, doesn't mean that's really how "he/she/it" is.

It also doesn't mean its not

( not that i believe in one, but it does show that one person's view is just as valid as another )

quote Originally posted by User00013170: But 'god' does both.

That is a matter of faith.
If we believe God created this existence that is
ideal for many forms of living matter, I would say
that he has not limited anyone, here, from
receiving what it has to offer.

If we believe there is no Creator beyond the natural
occurrences within chance, We rely on a universe
that runs on random initiations of chain reactions.
In which I would say that Love and Hate are irrelevant
and not even science can justify any emotion beyond
lust and greed.

Ofcourse that would be my opinion.......

quote Originally posted by jmclemore: If we believe there is no Creator beyond the natural occurrences within chance, We rely on a universe that runs on random initiations of chain reactions.

Most of us "non believers" feel that science removes the concept of chance in the universe. If something appears to be random, we just don't understand the physics of it, yet.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Most of us "non believers" feel that science removes the concept of chance in the universe. If something appears to be random, we just don't understand the physics of it, yet.

Then the "not yet understood" falls under the same
reasoning as not learning from our past. Blind men moving
forward eventually steps into an unexpected hole. Both
Believers and Non-believers have learned from their blindness.

However, It is illogical to deem each others beliefs invalid
since neither has the absolute answer we are seeking. We
are all acting on faith that we are doing what is best.....

When I see Christians and Scientist arguing over their
faults with the others beliefs, It reminds me of 2 Christians
screaming at one another as if the validity of their God is
somehow based on who can sing his praises the loudest.

Even if people disagree on the merits of faith or science it
should not be used as an excuse to ignore our mutual
participation and support of one another in life......