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Does God Really Exist? NO it is just a scam for priests, preachers or whatever you call those in your religion to live like kings in the world.
The bible, Koran, tora or whatever is just written by men who heard things in their own mind to make themselves look like kings.

Don’t like it
Then when was the last time you actually spoke to your god and he spoke back?

steve


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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Then when was the last time ... your god ... spoke back?

I'm still waiting.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Then when was the last time you actually spoke to your god and he spoke back? steve

November of last year.
It wasn't audible, no... but He talked.

Yeah, yeah... call me crazy. I understand. Perhaps my experiences have all been coincidences. I see evidence one way, you see another.

Our neighbor who attached me with the sickle talked to god all the time, and he talked back. Told her that her husband was going to be fine and is still alive.

Makes you wonder what those who spoke to god and wrote the bible and such had wrong with them now doesn’t it?

steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

In light of more recent events im going for my option #1.

Mean kid with a mgnifying glass.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Our neighbor who attached me with the sickle talked to god all the time, and he talked back. Told her that her husband was going to be fine and is still alive. Makes you wonder what those who spoke to god and wrote the bible and such had wrong with them now doesn’t it? steve

Nope.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I'm only referring to sound the tree makes, not the trees existence. And i'm not even referring to that. Just the belief of that.

When the tree falls, does the air move? Then there's sound, regardless of whether anyone is there to hear it.
All the person does is perceive the sound. The sound exists whether or not you perceive it. If you and a deaf person are next to the tree when it falls, there is no difference in the tree or the air or the sound, only in your respective ability to perceive that sound.

Just because someone doesn't have the ability to hear, or see, or believe, has no bearing on the actual existence of anything.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: ... Just because someone doesn't have the ability to hear, or see, or believe, has no bearing on the actual existence of anything.

You're right. Just because I don't see a $1000 dollar bill laying on the moon doesn't mean there isn't one there. However, I am not making a claim that there is. If I did, I would expect everyone to make me show some evidence beyond the fact that I got goose-bumps thinking about it.

I think that is what this is really about. The question of a sound in an empty forest is fun mental masturbation but doesn't help our understanding of anything. Since sound can be defined in multiple ways, we can shift the definition to avoid an answer.

Defining something as invisible doesn't make it any more likely.

True, but it also illustrates a point. If you're deaf, you can't hear the sound. Some people don't believe and no matter what you tell them or show them, it won't convince them.
If God Himself showed up, in person - people wouldn't believe He was real. He must be a fraud.
They would demand He perform miracles to prove himself. Any miracle would be disregarded as a trick.

Defining the question works both ways. Before you demand someone prove to you God exists, let me ask, what form of proof would you accept? I mean really, totally accept and know that, yes, this means there is a God. Because if there is no burden of proof that you would accept as valid, you couldn't prove wood came from trees, let alone the existence of God.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: True, but it also illustrates a point. If you're deaf, you can't hear the sound. Some people don't believe and no matter what you tell them or show them, it won't convince them. If God Himself showed up, in person - people wouldn't believe He was real. He must be a fraud. They would demand He perform miracles to prove himself. Any miracle would be disregarded as a trick. Defining the question works both ways. Before you demand someone prove to you God exists, let me ask, what form of proof would you accept? I mean really, totally accept and know that, yes, this means there is a God. Because if there is no burden of proof that you would accept as valid, you couldn't prove wood came from trees, let alone the existence of God.

Define god.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: I always liked this story. I'd do as the football player did.. . . . An atheist professor was teaching a college class and he told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God. He placed a chair on the platform and took a seat. He said, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!" Ten minutes went by. He kept taunting God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting." He got down to the last couple of minutes and a big 240 pound football player in the class walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him flying from his platform. The professor struggled, obviously shaken and yelled, "What's the matter with you? Why did you do that?" The football player replied, "God was busy; He sent me!"

Let's say the Professor only thought that in his mind and never blurted it out to the class. What would happen? Would the Football player knock the Professor down?

Nope!

quote Originally posted by TK: Define god.

He is.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-18-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The question then becomes, is that enough to actually be real, just becouse you think it to be so? Without confermation of your reality, could you just be a imagining of your own self?

"Cogito ergo sum." (I think, therefore I am)
-- Rene Descartes

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus......this was the reply from a newspaper to a little girls question with a great explanation at to why.

Therefore, God also exists.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. — Frank Lloyd Wright

Creationists make it sound like a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night — Isaac Asimov

Faith means not wanting to know what is true. — Friedrich Nietzsche

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches. — Benjamin Franklin

All thinking men are atheists. — Ernest Hemingway

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Let's say the Professor only thought that in his mind and never blurted it out to the class. What would happen? Would the Football player knock the Professor down? Nope!

I think it was just meant as a joke. Not really to prove anything...

yes, of course God exists

it is the religions which are figments of skewed imaginations
but - yes - the statement above: define God. likely not even possible within the limitations of language.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon I believe in God, only I spell it Nature. — Frank Lloyd Wright Creationists make it sound like a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night — Isaac Asimov Faith means not wanting to know what is true. — Friedrich Nietzsche Lighthouses are more helpful then churches. — Benjamin Franklin All thinking men are atheists. — Ernest Hemingway

Your attachment of names to the statements are done to convey some credibility to the statements. A normal, common thing to do.


Hemingway. 3 failed marriages. Committed suicide at 61. All thinking men are atheists, are bad husbands, and wind up killing themselves.


Nietzche. In 1889 he became mentally ill at the age of 45. He lived his remaining years in the care of his mother until her death in 1897, then under the care of his sister until his death in 1900.
My opinion on the validity of their comments is not the point.

But WERE I to base my important viewpoints on life on the writers of statements, I would select people that were more successful at actual life.
And btw for the snooty, I actually LIKE common people and IN MANY AREAS consider their approach to and success in life as superior to "the wise" and "the thinking".
An example. There are some HIGHLY EDUCATED psychologists that do marriage counseling. And they are on their 2nd or 3rd marriage. There are some "common" people that have had ONE SUCCESSFUL marriage for 40+ years. Who would you rather go to for marital advice? Lots of people would look to the DEGREE. But a lot of other people would look to people who HAD ACTUALLY DONE IT.

To Edward Gibbon I would say, there are a LOT of highly educated people (and that is great). That doesn't automatically make them wise.

And there are a lot of "thinking" people, Hemingway. (and that is great). It doesn't mean their "thinking" is correct, helpful, or beneficial.


Learning and thoughts are just that. Show me some useful, successful application of those things.

[This message has been edited by frontal lobe (edited 01-19-2012).]

quote Originally posted by frontal lobe: Your attachment of names to the statements are done to convey some credibility to the statements. A normal, common thing to do. Hemingway. 3 failed marriages. Committed suicide at 61. All thinking men are atheists, are bad husbands, and wind up killing themselves. Nietzche. In 1889 he became mentally ill at the age of 45. He lived his remaining years in the care of his mother until her death in 1897, then under the care of his sister until his death in 1900. My opinion on the validity of their comments is not the point. But WERE I to base my important viewpoints on life on the writers of statements, I would select people that were more successful at actual life. And btw for the snooty, I actually LIKE common people and IN MANY AREAS consider their approach to and success in life as superior to "the wise" and "the thinking".

The world still remembers Hemingway and Nietzche for their achievements. Honestly, I can't say anything about Nietzche (not much of a philosopher, myself) but I appreciated Hemingway, whom I have read to some degree.

Will the world long remember "frontal lobe"..?

Whatever.. I'm not that serious about this topic. This is just my "off the cuff" (very quick) reaction to your post. (Imagine a "grinning smiley" here--I don't know the smiley codes.)

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-19-2012).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: The world still remembers Hemingway and Nietzche for their achievements. Will the world long remember "frontal lobe"..?

Selective memory. I'm not critical of Hemingways "achievements". Or denigrating them. I would denigrate Nietzches, but everyone can have their own opinion.


The quotes weren't relating to their "achievements". The quotes were looking at issues OF LIFE. So then I don't assess those quotes in the context of their achievements. I assess them in the context of their LIFE.


There is going to be a MUCH smaller percentage of the future world that remembers the life accomplishments of "frontal lobe".

I will also be much less remembered than:

Britney Spears
Lindsey Lohan
Cher
Kurt Cobain
Mike Tyson

and a LOT of other people.


Let's all get THEIR opinions on the issues of life, and then base our opinions on the important issues of life on THEM.


I'm not the one that did the name dropping. So if you want to use notorious people to try to give validity to a statement, then let's not cherry pick tiny parts of their lives.


And I appreciate the comment and didn't consider it a personal challenge. It was a good question.

I prayed for Tbone42 above who is broke with a sick dog and his dog is getting better and his job prospects are improving.
Dennis

Upon reflection I deleted my "joke". That might've been the first time I've ever deleted a post of mine.

Tbone, I apologize if you might've been offended. That certainly wasn't my intention, but I realized afterwards it might've had that effect. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-19-2012).]

quote Originally posted by V8 Vega: I prayed for Tbone42 above who is broke with a sick dog and his dog is getting better and his job prospects are improving. Dennis

Thanks Dennis, but Jack died at the end of Sept. But that does not mean your prayer for me was wasted. I appreciate it. And I believe it helps me.

I'll know more about my injury on Wednesday.. I am hoping it is not serious, but dang, it hurts pretty bad. I'll be doing some praying, too... regardless of what anyone thinks about the existence of God.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 01-19-2012).]

Does God exist?

If you have to ask the question, I already know your answer.

I don't have to ask the question, I hope someday you don't either.

You Hit the nail right on the Head.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: That was me talking to you. I am the God that is providing you the miracles and evidence you seek. Believe in me and worship me and I'll give you heavily rewards.

If you're god, then do something about your sorry hyporcritical followers at my job then.

To expand on what frontal lobe said about love and defining God.

Define love.
Does love exist? How would you prove it exists to someone who doesn't believe? Can you really understand what love is without experiencing it for yourself?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: To expand on what frontal lobe said about love and defining God. Define love. Does love exist? How would you prove it exists to someone who doesn't believe? Can you really understand what love is without experiencing it for yourself?

Very true.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88:

Fascinating, and the image at 5:46.. lol!

quote Originally posted by TK: Very true.

I don't mean to bring up something and start any kind of flame, but when I told Wichita (bolded so you can see your name and comment back if you want ) that I didn't like the way that he talked about religion, this is what I meant. You are very fair. You can understand how a Believer may think or feel, despite your own convictions. I don't feel that Wichita really has that mentality. I struggle with it a lot when it comes to politics, so I am not trying to single him out.

Wichita, many times I read your posts and see a man who fully believes that every Believer is a complete moron with no understanding of anything. Maybe that isn't your belief, but that's what I see.

I really like the way you discuss this, TK. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I don't mean to bring up something and start any kind of flame, but when I told Wichita (bolded so you can see your name and comment back if you want ) that I didn't like the way that he talked about religion, this is what I meant. You are very fair. You can understand how a Believer may think or feel, despite your own convictions. I don't feel that Wichita really has that mentality. I struggle with it a lot when it comes to politics, so I am not trying to single him out. Wichita, many times I read your posts and see a man who fully believes that every Believer is a complete moron with no understanding of anything. Maybe that isn't your belief, but that's what I see. I really like the way you discuss this, TK. Thanks.

Well thank you, I do appreciate it.

I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they reasoned themselves into. At the same time, faith in a higher power is something humans have been doing for over a hundred thousand years. It's not like it will change anytime soon nor can it be forced. A lot of people believe in god. A lot of people believe Jesus had super-powers. No kidding. I understand that and don't get wound up about it like it's something I just heard.

I do take exception to people that look at something and conclude it can only be the result of some super-being without any critical thought. You know, that just might not be the reason. I am fine with it philosophically to a point, but its usually presented as fact - and it's not.

I also take strong exception to some people's belief that they are somehow empowered by those *beliefs* when they attempt to make others join them. Paul wanted people to spread the good news but it's followed by "and if you don't". That's pretty arrogant. It's as if their faith somehow gives them the power of life and death. Once someone tells you to believe or suffer a horrible faith you are pretty screwed. Hey, you were told about god and Jesus and you refused to accept them. You are now ****ed. That's just plain stupid on so many levels. Kiss Hanks Ass.

I think that is part of Wichita's perspective (as it is my own.) He just delivers the message more strongly where I like to draw it out. Yes, I am speaking for him and he is now compelled to confirm my comments on his behalf.

But attempt to change someone faith? No, it's neither honorable or productive.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: I don't mean to bring up something and start any kind of flame, but when I told Wichita (bolded so you can see your name and comment back if you want ) that I didn't like the way that he talked about religion, this is what I meant. You are very fair. You can understand how a Believer may think or feel, despite your own convictions. I don't feel that Wichita really has that mentality. I struggle with it a lot when it comes to politics, so I am not trying to single him out. Wichita, many times I read your posts and see a man who fully believes that every Believer is a complete moron with no understanding of anything. Maybe that isn't your belief, but that's what I see. I really like the way you discuss this, TK. Thanks.

Not a moron. Either naive or indoctrinated in the subject of religion.

We all have a bit of nativity and indoctrination, either it be in nationalism, politics, religion or other.

The vast majority of people don't really fully envelope themselves into their religion or their beliefs in god. It is just a passing thought that people don't even spend more than 1% of their lives even thinking about God or Religion.

The issue with religion is that is in an acceptable crutch that many religious people use to justifiably discriminate against others. It's not just Christianity. Muslims discriminate against non-believers, Christians do to, Mormons don't allow non-Mormons in their ceremonies, Jews and so on.

To a very devoted religious Christian, I'm just nothing more than a Negro in their eyes. Me? I don't care what religion you say you practice or you believe in. I view you as a human being just like everybody else. I just know it isn't reciprocated so much with religious people to those who aren't like them.

You love Jesus? That's great. I love titties, so that's my thing.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 01-20-2012).]

Wow, we are using up our share of *****. We need to slow it down!

Arguing about religion is one of the worst things you can do. Everyone will stubbornly keep to their beliefs or lack-there-of. God is a perception, and while I believe in God, I don't believe everything the Bible says, as those were stories written by men hundreds of years after Jesus existed. I am a member of a Christian Roman Catholic church, not because I take their word as law, but because the people are worth being with, and their beliefs reflect mine better than any other religion I've come across. The big bang came from nothing? That's a contradiction. They said the mass was so dense it exploded. But 'nothing' can't have mass, so I don't take this as an argument or proof against God.

If you want to look at other theories, watch Ancient Aliens. They have shown a lot of evidence through many of the ancient cultures spread around the world, that there was some entity or being who'd come from above. God? Aliens? Nobody knows.

One of the concepts I have, is if you look at old myths, religions, etc, they are fairly similar. Christians have one God, and commanding angels, some others (Roman and Greek for example) have one lead god, and lesser gods. Some of those lesser gods share similarities to some of the Christian angels, such as Aries(Mars) vs. Archangel Michael.

So no real proof exists, unless you count the similarities between the perception of one man against the perception of another. However, no proof exists to say that an Almighty entity doesn't exist either. Arguing about it won't dissuade one person from their beliefs any more than they'd be able to persuade you to think the Hamburgler would be the new dictator of the world.

To the OP, I wouldn't have asked this if I were you. Just saying haha.

On a side note, I will sit and look at the stars, knowing just what they are: flaming balls of dense gas. But the vastness, the beauty, and the pure awe they cause lead me to believe God is real. Stars didn't just pop up willy-nilly out of the scientifically proposed 'nothing'.

That's my share. Haha.

Zach

quote Originally posted by Formula88: To expand on what frontal lobe said about love and defining God. Define love. Does love exist? How would you prove it exists to someone who doesn't believe? Can you really understand what love is without experiencing it for yourself?

Very true.