quote Originally posted by Patrick: Cliff, interesting how you lump in cable TV, cell phones, computers, and new cars in the same "don't need" category as the BS which I originally referred to. You make it appear that this BS is perhaps something you "don't need", but enjoy nevertheless.

With respect, you have categorized the tenure of the political discussions as BS. I was not saying we need nor defending this BS (your term), nor was I saying I enjoyed this BS. I honestly feel it can be categorized as BS (your term) with my aforementioned examples.
TV programming is crap. TV is the most time wasting, production killing, thing ever invented. I would think it eclipses illicit drugs. TV's, computers, cell phones. A newer better model every year that we gotta have. It's crap.
Something I don't need but enjoy ? I enjoy discussion and interaction. I enjoy hearing opposing views. I don't have one subsection checked as I enjoy being able to see any of them. Political discussion ? I couldn't say I get actual enjoyment from posting my views nor debating others. I certainly don't get a warm fuzzy feeling in attacking anyone. I can admit though that, sometimes, some of the banter is hilarious.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: In regards to who the "we" is that I'm referring to, it would be any member of this forum who is sick and tired of all the BS and political infighting.

Gosh, I don't know what to recommend. I am not into mandatory azz kissing or the politically correct mindset. Not that I am not sensitive to the feelings of others. There are no Burger King forums that I know of where everybody get's it their way.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: JazzMan was no angel, but anyone who's been a member of this forum for the entire duration of his stay here would know that he was pushed, poked, and provoked endlessly due to his left of center beliefs. Judging from several posts in this thread, some people appear to be in acute denial, but there are members of this forum who took great delight in getting JazzMan's goat. No big deal I suppose for the many who didn't share JazzMan's political beliefs, but he was a human being just like you or I, and it was nauseating seeing the way he was treated here over the last eight years or so.

I get your concept. However, I don't think we should excuse or call him a victim. Any who did take pleasure in getting JazzMan's goat have their own issues which do not concern me. I would defend anybody who did not want to be a party to alleged abuse, but JazzMan did seem to relish the idea of participating. I wouldn't describe the way he was treated as nauseating. If it could be described as such, JazzMan was just as nauseating. Granted, sometimes, it would get reprehensible. Such as this ... :

quote Originally posted by avengador1: At least I have a mama and a papa I can learn things from. Why don't you go crying to your mama and tell her how mean we are being with you? Oh wait! I forgot that you can't. OH SNAP! Jazzman just got banned!

I would call it nauseating as such.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I have never met someone so reprehensible as to take joy in rubbing someone's dead mother in his face when he is down.[/HIDE]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The end result is that this forum, which I believe was conceived to create a resource for the Pontiac Fiero, has lost someone who had a lot to contribute.

Yes, we did. However, I learned a long long time ago that nobody is irreplaceable. We don't need him, or me. This forum succeeded in that it is a invaluable resource. I kinda get tired of hearing how valuable he was in the Tech section. I don't think I ever was the beneficiary of his advice. I will more miss the contributions he made here in T/OT.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: That's a sad thing, no matter how you choose to look at this whole unfortunate affair.

I do agree.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: And no, I'm not a founding member of the JazzMan fan club. I just hate the mob mentality I see demonstrated here on occasion.

'Ya know, I don't see a mob mentality. He did have his anti fans. We used to hear about the green bar brigade. They supposedly ganged up for targeted bannings. I did not see that either.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-12-2011).]

Hate to see long time friend expelled, but we all do the wrong things here and there sometimes.

I do feel good that I know how to contact a fellow Texan when needed

Sad: that makes 2 knowledgeable people from Dallas no more. Well one was more well liked . What is in the Dallas(area) water???

j/k

I just read this thread for the first time. Wow, what a train wreck.

I don't want to add anymore fuel to the fire. But I will say this: life goes on. There's no sense in dwelling on it.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Thanks Cliff! He was being a real PITA as of late and had stated that he really didn't want to be here except to be an annoyance. I guess you showed him who is the real POS and maybe now he will learn to leave when the place is full of grenades.

I dont know

PITAs don't help people in Tech, or sympathize with real world plight of some here..

Jazzman happened to be a pretty stand up guy who has helped me on a couple of occasions in Tech..and even been friendly and caring towrad those on the forum who are in trouble or have problems. He did not just stir **** to be doing so, he saw situations that he deemed unfair and was sometimes the only voice against it. I admire that kind of courage. Courage is NOT insulting someone after they have been banned. Just food for thought.

His post on the steering wheel rebuild is one of the reasons I admired this (like it or not) online community to begin with. It's a shame to see him go.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 12-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I just read for the first time. Wow, what a wreck.

just to add some perspective

yes, this is over the top, but an example of the kind of BS that was being done.
and, with group support & acceptance of this kind of thing - it makes it very frustrating.

Guess I was wrong there. It was the other one.

Brad

[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 12-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: That's just the sound of them pulling back the hammer on their guns. No worries. Brad

Go ahead! MAKE MY DAY!

Because I think it bears repeating...

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: I see a bunch of juveniles playing the "you're a doo-doo head" "no I'm not, you are!" back and forth, back and forth game and it's really annoying and incredibly immature. "But he started it and he's wrong!"

I've backed out of threads here when it seemed like no matter how I tried to express myself some people seemed determined to twist my words. Maybe it was me and I wasn't as concise as I should have been. I admired jazz for his courage in standing up for himself and his views. I surely hope that someone will take his place. He was one of the most articulate people I've known and represented some valid counterpoints to his ultraconservative tormenters. I don't have a problem with onservatives. I live in Idaho and my entire family are conservative. I love em. Liberals need conservatives to point out differences and conservatives need liberals. Between them they jerk us back toward the center. I don't agree with everything that libs say, but we need someone to take jazzs place here. In general I don't think that he was offensive except when attacked.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 12-13-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: just to add some perspective yes, this is over the top, but an example of the kind of BS that was being done. and, with group support & acceptance of this kind of thing - it makes it very frustrating.

Perspective, ?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: OK well...I guess my only thing to add is: make the "quote" function not be editable. would add some honesty to many discussions eliminates the re-worded quotes - an the "out of context" quotes. the tools of the dishonest.

Guns don't kill. People do.
Perhaps we should make the edit function uneditable. 'Ya know, to add honesty to the forum.
Inside the GM tilt steering column

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Deleted per Cliffw's request.

I never requested this. Perhaps we should change the UBB code also, to add honesty to the forum. JazzMan fabricated a quote purportedly by me which said I liked little boys, followed by his comment that he didn't know I swung that way.
Also, if we made the quote function uneditable, we could not pick one photo from a multi photo post to ask about. We would also have to quote all of Avengador's lengthy cut and pastes to comment on one aspect, .

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: How about solving the issue once and for all? 95% of the drama on the forum is caused by half a dozen people, who pretty much live in OT and contribute nothing to General or Tech, the reason for this forum's existence? I would say eliminate the OT section entirely, but it can be a useful and fun tool since we do have so many knowledgeable members who like to help others with their everyday problems.

'Ya know, I kinda thought the reason for this forums existence was to give fellow Fiero lovers a venue to interact. OT is an important part of that aspect and needed to keep the other sections uncluttered from non Fiero specific clutter. I am not on a lot of forums but the few I am on have an OT venue. I contribute little to nothing to Chat, Tech, or the Mall nor have I benefited much from them, but I do have a Fiero.
This forum may not be a democracy but we live in one. Am I/others not allowed the right of freedom to assemble ? With respect, you are a younger member. When I was your age, heh, politics was not my thing. I have learned that politics is a useful thing to discuss and there are many knowledgeable members from varied backgrounds here, on both sides of the isle, who make political discussion here, on a Fiero forum, a valuable resource. Where would you suggest one go for two sided political discussion ?

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: These people don't need to be here. Let them go stroke their ego's and be 'right' somewhere else.

Need ? See my reply to Patrick.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: ... you don't have to put up with their crap OVER and OVER and OVER again.

I think Cliff realizes that is it is within his power. I am at a loss to understand that you have to, .

quote Originally posted by dratts: I've backed out of threads here when it seemed like no matter how I tried to express myself some people seemed determined to twist my words.

Welcome to the internet.

The internet is often called the "information superhighway". IMO, it's more like a digital street corner.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: I agree there's to much PC in the world, short of someone blatently calling you something people should chill. Hell I don't get offended when people say that's gay or fag or anything hell I say fag all the time. Matter a fact I seriously have an issue with fags, its ok to be gay but you don't need to tie up traffic letting everyone know about it and making it obscene (have you seen what some of them wear at gay pride rallies?) its actually embarrasing to me. But the moment calls me a fag I warn them then if they do it again I snap, everyone deserves a warning IMO.

Fag. Fagfagfagfagfag. What are you going to do about it, homosexual? Not much with your boyfriends **** in your ass.

Noting WhiteDevil88's smiley on top of his last post .... and one on mine, ...

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: ..., its ok to be gay but you don't need to tie up traffic letting everyone know about it and making it obscene (have you seen what some of them wear at gay pride rallies?) its actually embarrasing to me. But the moment calls me a fag I warn them then if they do it again I snap, everyone deserves a warning IMO.

So, are you saying we can call you gay, but not a fag, ?
Got it, .

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 12-14-2011).]

Here we go. Target is now Niterrorz.

As much as hate words like "fag", I like where White Devil took this. Too many hide behind their Mom's computer, and feel the net is ok to freely attack others. A lot of pussies out there, and not much manning up. WD only let a hater, and a prolific destroyer of the English language, know how it is.

Tony

Personally I've been to a few gay pride parades when I lived and worked in SF. They were a kick in the head! I always like to see people think outside the box. I never experienced gay people trying to push their views on me and it seemed that they were just celebrating a day without being prejudiced against. I think that fag is a derogatory term. I used "retarded" without realizing how offending it was to those who are so afflicted and I feel bad about the people who I hurt without realizing it. If someone called me a fag, I would take it just like being called a sh*thead. I'm not either. It's just name calling which I don't approve of although I'm not innocent. I have done it in a fit of anger, but I am ashamed of doing it. There is no need to be hurtful. I improbably the least politically correct person I know, but the last thing I want to be is hurtful.

[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 12-14-2011).]

quote PITAs don't help people in Tech, or sympathize with real world plight of some here.. Jazzman happened to be a pretty stand up guy who has helped me on a couple of occasions in Tech..and even been friendly and caring toward those on the forum who are in trouble or have problems. He did not just stir **** to be doing so, he saw situations that he deemed unfair and was sometimes the only voice against it. I admire that kind of courage. Courage is NOT insulting someone after they have been banned. Just food for thought. His post on the steering wheel rebuild is one of the reasons I admired this (like it or not) online community to begin with. It's a shame to see him go.

Have you seen the steering wheel thread lately? Guess why all the information in in it is missing? Didn't you notice other threads were information was removed? I didn't remove it, but we all know who did.
When was the last time Jazzman helped you in the technical section of this forum? The last couple of months he was on here he certainly wasn't contributing nor was he being friendly or caring to many in the OT section. If you frequent it you would have known this. He was continually trolling and insulting others. Didn't you see his post where he called Cliff Pennock a "POS moderator" and then proceeded to say how crappy he thought this forum was?
Insulting him after he was banned is a parting shot from me to him and a reminder that I won't be welcoming him back ever. I treat others as they treat me, so don't be shocked that I didn't treat him well. He doesn't deserve it from me and I won't apologize for anything I said to him. From my point of view he got all he deserved including getting HIMSELF banned. You may miss him, I certainly won't. I think the forum will be a better place without him.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 12-14-2011).]

quote Originally posted by SSG Larry: Here we go. Target is now Niterrorz.

i saw this coming a while ago, what they fail to realize is i was speaking figurativly and not literally and trying to define the difference between the to words. but mostly that PC is dumb and no whitedevil im not offended by you saying fag /and the word doesnt bother me at all.

on another note i got a ratings bar!!! alot of people dont like me lol now i know how L67 feels although i gotta say red is a nice color...i wonder if it was cus of the gay thread...or should i say fag :-P

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: i saw this coming a while ago, what they fail to realize is i was speaking figurativly and not literally and trying to define the difference between the to words. but mostly that PC is dumb and no whitedevil im not offended by you saying fag /and the word doesnt bother me at all. on another note i got a ratings bar!!! alot of people dont like me lol now i know how L67 feels although i gotta say red is a nice color...i wonder if it was cus of the gay thread...or should i say fag :-P

Theres a gay thread? Is it a happy thread or weird.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: i saw this coming a while ago, what they fail to realize is i was speaking figurativly and not literally and trying to define the difference between the to words. but mostly that PC is dumb and no whitedevil im not offended by you saying fag /and the word doesnt bother me at all.

What does that even mean?

[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 12-14-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Theres a gay thread? Is it a happy thread or weird.

It is not labled 'Gay Thread" but something similiar like 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: It is not labled 'Gay Thread" but something similiar like 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

That should go in the encyclopedia under "Cheap Shot".

Brad

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Theres a gay thread?

You mean you missed...
Fags With Fieros?
Fags Without Fieros?
Last homosexual to Post in This Thread Wins a Prize?
Just a General Question About Fags?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: It is not labled 'Gay Thread" but something similiar like 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

Crazy. Hmm? I thought it was "I got sucked off by loyd thread?" I guess that I was mistaken?"

Tony

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: It is not labled 'Gay Thread" but something similiar like 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

I feel like this thread may have taken a sour turn.

IBTC!

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Crazy. Hmm? I thought it was "I got sucked off by loyd thread?" I guess that I was mistaken?" Tony

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: I feel like this thread may have taken a sour turn. IBTC!

Hmmm... I always heard "salty", but whatever you say.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: It is not labled 'Gay Thread" but something similiar like 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

Youre still a jerk but that made me laugh out loud, just a little. Well done.
I know your just kidding who could hate the SBC, its not like its a little girl engine that needs a blower to wake it up

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 12-14-2011).]

Odd this isnt in the can yet.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Odd this isnt in the can yet.

Seriously

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Odd this isnt in the can yet.

Another gay joke?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Hmmm... I always heard "salty", but whatever you say.

Had no idea what the taste was like. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Kinda want to know if you speak from experience.... Wait... No I dont.

(only kidding) IBTC

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Crazy. Hmm? I thought it was "I got sucked off by loyd thread?" I guess that I was mistaken?" Tony

Hold Up There....You are letting out to much of your personal life in here. You do what you want as I will not see you any differant but no need to let everyone know it.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Hold Up There....You are letting out to much of your personal life in here. You do what you want as I will not see you any differant but no need to let everyone know it.

Won't even change your positive rating. That is funny right there.

Tony

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Won't even change your positive rating. That is funny right there. Tony

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: 'SBC Swaps" or something like that.....

Is that a gay term? I always thought it meant "Small Block Chevy"?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Is that a gay term? I always thought it meant "Small Block Chevy"?

Thats why ur not paid to think.....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Thats why ur not paid to think.....

It was a joke. Lighten up.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: It was a joke. Lighten up.

You will never meet anyone lighter....

Ok, time to move on.