Well, this in combination with some of the PM's I've received and the fact he's been deleting his threads is enough reason for me to conclude JazzMan really doesn't want to be here and is simply trying to find out where my/our boundaries are. I'll just save us all some time and aggravation and ban him now.

I guess the boundary was just firmly established.

Thanks Cliff! He was being a real PITA as of late and had stated that he really didn't want to be here except to be an annoyance. I guess you showed him who is the real POS and maybe now he will learn to leave when the place is full of grenades.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 12-09-2011).]

Well, he wasn't bothering me all that much since I've always made it perfectly clear I really don't care what others think/say about me or my moderating "skilz". But I've seen this happen a few times before on the forum and it tends to escalate. He was already deleting threads (and blaming others they forced him to it) and he is obviously trying to see how far he can take his tantrums. Before you know it, you get two camps and the birth of yet another "Pennock sucks the ballz" forum.

And this being the season to be jolly 'n all, I don't wan't the forum (or me for that matter) to be sucked into his spiral of negativity (is that even a word?).

Cliff, can you ban me too? I spend an inordinate amount of time reading posts here and this distracts from my real purpose in life--to check out the nice legs at the local supermarket.

I am serious. I don't have enough self discipline to just drop off the forum.

Edited to correct mei baed spelin

[This message has been edited by starlightcoupe (edited 12-09-2011).]

Be careful of what you wish for!

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: ... this in combination with some of the PM's I've received ...

Heh, I altered your quote.
Cliff, you see the big picture and I support your decision. However, I will say in honesty, I am sorry to see him go. Not to be confused in any way with how I feel about our interactions. I did not have him rated as a positive but I also never rated him negative. I see a lot of good in James and would instantly help him if he needed it.
Question Cliff. Since my ratings did not go down one count, I suppose he had me as neutral also ?
Best wishes James.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: negativity (is that even a word?).

Yeah, it is.

Thanks for the forum Cliff. Maybe some get off to ranting about this place, but I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Exactly what a two year old deserves. A good old fashioned spanking. I'm glad you delivered it Cliff. I for one, am glad to see him gone.

Jim

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Question Cliff. Since my ratings did not go down one count, I suppose he had me as neutral also ? Best wishes James.

I don't think ratings from banned members are deleted. I know for a fact that Jazz gave me a negative rating but my ratings did not change at all after he got the boot.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I wish that were true. But the fact is you can be guilty of doing none of those things to others here and still be treated in a disrespectful manner by some of the suppossed "respected" members here.

Truly said. Yet most folks here are civil to each other, and astounded that Cliff puts up with the grief. The few who feel the need to bully others are pretty well known, and easy to ignore. They can pee into the wind all they want, for the most part. Jazz just crossed the line, is all.

And no, most of us don't care what they say about you.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Heh, I altered your quote. Cliff, you see the big picture and I support your decision. However, I will say in honesty, I am sorry to see him go. Not to be confused in any way with how I feel about our interactions. I did not have him rated as a positive but I also never rated him negative. I see a lot of good in James and would instantly help him if he needed it. Question Cliff. Since my ratings did not go down one count, I suppose he had me as neutral also ? Best wishes James.

Jazz was a valuable technical asset that I'm sorry to see the forum lose, but in all honesty, that JazzMan left a while back.
It seemed obvious to me that he was only interested in seeing how far he could push it before he got banned since he no longer liked being here.
Maybe he'll find what he's looking for somewhere else?

I can't say I'm *glad* to see him go, but I can see where it was necessary. He's been a member since 2003, eight years is a long time. I don't think his recent behavior and attitudes are representative of the last 8 years. I have to think there must be something going on with him lately. Not everyone spills their guts on the open forum, so it's an absolute certainty that there things we don't know about his life. One thing about me, that has earned the angst of a few people on here from time to time is that I don't tend to assume the worst about people or judge people too harshly (or at least I try not to). Everyone has a story to tell.

All I can say if he's lurking is, I hope that if there's something going on with you, that you can get it worked out and that everything turns out OK.

. Just out of curiousness what does the ban screen even look like? I've always wondered
Inb4 I get speed banned

Honestly I did not expect that.
I wish you the best Jazzman.

http://www.chickenkeepingse...each-other-to-death/

Jazzman has his bad days like some of us do. But I didn't mind him. He was a'ite. Radical left-wing nut that flaunted it like a San Fransisco Drag Queen, sure!

But I can understand him a bit. A poor loner hermit in a trailer park, getting no love and increasingly becoming a big grouch. He was dealt a bad hand in life, but he liked Fieros and knew about them, so he was alright.

I suspect him to be back under another username though. Even banned members cannot break the addiction.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: I can't say I'm *glad* to see him go, but I can see where it was necessary. ... All I can say if he's lurking is, I hope that if there's something going on with you, that you can get it worked out and that everything turns out OK.

Second this.
I've met Jazz a few times in person. He's a decent guy.
I probably pissed him off, for good, a couple of weeks ago. Regardless, I wish hiim well.

I agree with Cliff's decision. Until recently, I was giving him a +, but then suddenly
it seemed like overnight he changed and turned into a... I'll use a nice word out of respect... jerk.
I was reluctant but changed my rating to "-". And I didn't PM Cliff over this thread but I sure thought about it.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I've met Jazz a few times in person. He's a decent guy.

Yeah, in person I really enjoyed talking with him. (Raydar: are you sure we weren't twins separated at birth?) He visited my son in the hospital, which meant a lot to me and I know to my son as well. But he just wouldn't use this forum in a civil way, he had to stir the pot and take public shots at the owner of this site. Not cool. If you don't like something on a forum, deal with it or go start your own. It's bad enough when you use a jackhammer outside someone's house, but when you go inside and start hammerin' away, that crosses the line.

I'm sad to see him go, but he went too far and it had to be done.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: . Just out of curiousness what does the ban screen even look like? I've always wondered

There's no such thing as a "ban screen". You just loose all membership privileges. So it's like you no longer have a membership here - which, well, you don't.

People often don't take into account that when they are banned, they really are treated by the software as a guest instead of a member. So you loose access to your private messages as well.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Jazz was a valuable technical asset that I'm sorry to see the forum lose, but in all honesty, that JazzMan left a while back. It seemed obvious to me that he was only interested in seeing how far he could push it before he got banned since he no longer liked being here. Maybe he'll find what he's looking for somewhere else?

While I never rated him one way or the other I think a complete ban is a little overkill in some cases. As you said he did contribute in other areas of the forum, Cliff I ask only out of curiosity. Is there a way to ban someone from OT? Or any other section, like each category a person could be band from but still allowed to post in others. If they screw up beyond the first section then ban them completely.

I can see and understand how some of our recently band members should be completely band. But there are other who do contribute in other areas where they actually are of some help to others.

Just wondering

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I hate to see a long-term member who has been helpful in tech get the boot, but I guess it was just a matter of time. Unfortunately James just couldn't seem to learn to cope with certain agitators here without eventually becoming one himself.

There's a couple of forum members in this very thread who I personally can't stand, but instead of dredging up the same ol' crap over and over again with them (which everyone here gets sick of reading), it's better in the long run to just basically ignore people that are that bothersome and move on.

James, just come back under a new name. Take it as a personal challenge to see if you can post your beliefs here without getting sucked into having a hissy fit.

quote Radical left-wing nut that flaunted it like a San Fransisco Drag Queen, sure!

Not according to him. He insisted that he was a moderate liberal.
He used to be an asset to the forum a few years back, but lately all he done is to wear out his welcome here. Cliff decided it was time to oblige Jazzman's wishes of not being on here anymore. I think this is the best solution for everyone.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 12-09-2011).]

Jazzman,

I know you are reading this thread still, you have probably been refreshing it all day long.
I also know you had some issues with me, and took many things I said as personal attacks on you. I don't blame you, I do have this habit of "poking bears" as it were, but I never viewed you as a "bad guy". There have also been many things you have pointed out as "attacks" that were never meant as such, and trying to explain that seemed to make matters worse.

I think you should get help, something is really wrong with you, and you are spiraling even further down the rabbit hole. Look back, you weren't like this in the past, this behavior is a recent occurrence, at least at this level. I'm serious. I care about you and think you need to seek help.

In my opinion you are a person who should (after you get better) come back to PFF. You have a powerful past here, and just recently started having problems.

Go, get help, make sure you are OK, none of us want anything to happen to you. Have a Merry Christmas, hug your loved ones. Live Life for a bit.

Love,
Brad

quote Originally posted by avengador1: He used to be an asset to the forum a few years back, but lately all he done is to wear out his welcome here.

Oh, the irony...

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Not according to him. He insisted that he was a moderate liberal. He used to be an asset to the forum a few years back, but lately all he done is to wear out his welcome here. Cliff decided it was time to oblige Jazzman's wishes of not being on here anymore. I think this is the best solution for everyone.

He always had a positive rating by me. Political and Religious topics are usually very passionate and heated for those who hold it very personally.

But you think it's bad now. Wait until the calendar year flips to 2012 and lets say around October, it will be crazy.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: ... Wait until the calendar year flips to 2012 and lets say around October, it will be crazy.

Indeed.

wow thats funny ive diaagreed with cliff (faster than light anyone?) but i wouldnt go so far as to insult the man. if you dont like it leave for the forum of fiero rejects or....cliff can lay thy mighty ban hammer down upon thee with great vengence!

sorry for the swear in advance but it is to awesome not to post

quote Oh, the irony...

At least I didn't go around trying to remove the thousands of Technical posts I have made here. I also contribute to the forum in a different way now. Let's just say that I don't make trolls feel at home here.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: At least I didn't go around trying to remove the thousands of Technical posts I have made here. I also contribute to the forum in a different way now. Let's just say that I don't make trolls feel at home here.

You've made thousands of technical posts? I had no idea.

I like Jazz and always have.
Very intelligent, literate, thoughtful, & in MY opinion one of the few unbiased minds here.

And although I realize practically no one else here see's him that way, I can truthfully say I have found others here far more offensive in the way they choose to communicate with their differently opinioned fellow forum members.
There is no shortage of rude, disrespectful attacks on others here, and Jazz is not the only or the worst of them.
Not by a long shot.
He's just the newest head on the chopping block.

I'm guessing he was just testing the limits of "not being moderated".
It seems he found it.
I'm sorry to see him go, and I wish him well.

P.S. He was 100% right about people changing quotes.
When quoting someone, the quote should not be altered.

Sad, I wish it could have been handled differently. It might have solved the immediate problem, but I don't think it does the forum any good in the long run.

I don't get any satisfaction out of it as others. He was probably one of the few that actually had the thousands of technical posts to delete.

Why do people on the left always claim to be more moderate than they are?

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Why do people on the left always claim to be more moderate than they are?

Maybe one will answer you.

Damn, for whatever reason I didn't realize that JazzMan had been deleting his posts in the tech forums. For some reason I thought it was perhaps just limited to O/T threads.

An example of what he's done is here - A/C Heater Core Repair Procedure

That just plain sucks.

James, what an absolutely stupid thing to do! Not only have you wasted all the time and effort that you put into those posts/threads, but you've also wasted all the time and effort of everyone else who added to those threads. And for what? What the hell has this accomplished?

What a way to screw up a legacy.

wow he was deleting tech posts....im sorry thats a democrat temper tantrum. just like the ones in wisconsin running to illinois when they dont like something, im shur they would have torched the halls if they could have to. wow...just wow

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Why do people on the left always claim to be more moderate than they are?

quote Originally posted by TK: Maybe one will answer you.

Some can see shades of gray.

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: im sorry thats a democrat temper tantrum.

Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS.

Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting.

Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other.

It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Why do people on the left always claim to be more moderate than they are?

People view the world from their own eyes. They consider themselves to be moderate and fair minded, and everyone else is either to the left or right of them. I doubt you'll find many, if any, people who will straight up tell you "I'm an extremist."

Everyone has their own bias because everyone views the world a point of view unique to them and only them. The best we can do is try to understand or empathize with other points of view, whether we agree or disagree with them.