quote Originally posted by Patrick: Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS. Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting. Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other. It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

For some, it's all they have.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS. Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting. Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other. It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

Thank you.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS. Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting. Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other. It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

Yep. We do. The ones that are tired of it are the ones that don't post in those situations anymore.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: People view the world from their own eyes. They consider themselves to be moderate and fair minded, and everyone else is either to the left or right of them. I doubt you'll find many, if any, people who will straight up tell you "I'm an extremist." Everyone has their own bias because everyone views the world a point of view unique to them and only them. The best we can do is try to understand or empathize with other points of view, whether we agree or disagree with them.

This is a very true post.

Isn't all that info saved before he deleted? I was under the impression the data could be replaced. Cliff?

Jazzman: as i know your still lurking here. I would just like to say you used to be a pretty decent guy. Heck, we even talked on the phone about ideas. One of the best conversations i can remember. Shortly after i went through hell in my life, left the forum for a short time and when i came back, you ignored me. I never did or said anything wrong to you or about you but yet i was burned. It really pi**ed me off when i came back, defended you on a thread and you came at me like i was the enemy.

Man i have no idea what turned you sour but maybe now is a good time to go seek help. No i do not think your the only one who needs it on here. But, are you a leader or a follower? With you gone i have a feeling the children will grow bored and go away at some point. With you getting help and the children leaving, who knows. Maybe you can make things right again.

Dup

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 12-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive been a victim of some people flatley changing quotes attributed to me. I just look at the mentally deficient people doing it and ignore them. Everyone already knows who they are.

I'm not aware of being misquoted, but I can see that somebody hijacked my account to give negatives to people and used language that is totally not mine. Anybody know that would work?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS. Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting. Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other. It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

hey im not a fan of republitards either. anyone whom labels themself based on a party is very closed minded. now to side with one party or say you believe in more descions that one party makes than the other is a different story.but to just say im this and i hate them no matter what is messed up IMO. there are things i love that democrats do and the same withe republicans but truthfully what he did was a democommie move plain and simple. had he tried to get rich off of a war and have his brother rig a presidential election id have called him out on that :-P

quote Originally posted by theBDub: The ones that are tired of it are the ones that don't post in those situations anymore.

But there's no escape from this crap. We could have a thread in O/T about vanilla ice cream or aardvarks or whatever and sure as hell someone will post a stupid political reference.

I'm pissed off at the guys who over the years continued to bait JazzMan again and again and again.

And I'm pissed off at JazzMan for going on a post deleting rampage.

No one wins in this situation. It's just all so freaking juvenile.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: hey im not a fan of republitards either. anyone whom labels themself based on a party is very closed minded. now to side with one party or say you believe in more descions that one party makes than the other is a different story.but to just say im this and i hate them no matter what is messed up IMO. there are things i love that democrats do and the same withe republicans but truthfully what he did was a democommie move plain and simple. had he tried to get rich off of a war and have his brother rig a presidential election id have called him out on that :-P

Right, so you're definitely above them.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: But there's no escape from this crap. We could have a thread in O/T about vanilla ice cream or aardvarks or whatever and sure as hell someone will post a stupid political reference. I'm pissed off at the guys who over the years continued to bait JazzMan again and again and again. And I'm pissed off at JazzMan for going on a post deleting rampage. No one wins in this situation. It's just all so freaking juvenile.

+1

quote Originally posted by Patrick: But there's no escape from this crap. We could have a thread in O/T about vanilla ice cream or aardvarks or whatever and sure as hell someone will post a stupid political reference. I'm pissed off at the guys who over the years continued to bait JazzMan again and again and again. And I'm pissed off at JazzMan for going on a post deleting rampage. No one wins in this situation. It's just all so freaking juvenile.

i agree when people bait that really gets my goat. its one thing to state your opinion but to bait someone to cause trouble is way over the line.

truthfully peoples opinions are thier own i never try to change them just try to understand becaue ur opinion is really the only freedom anyone has left anymore. i dunno if i ever even gave jazzman a neg to tell the truth

quote Originally posted by Patrick: But there's no escape from this crap. We could have a thread in O/T about vanilla ice cream or aardvarks or whatever and sure as hell someone will post a stupid political reference. I'm pissed off at the guys who over the years continued to bait JazzMan again and again and again. And I'm pissed off at JazzMan for going on a post deleting rampage. No one wins in this situation. It's just all so freaking juvenile.

You're right. I don't mind the occasional political reference that the poster thinks is really funny, but when it starts to go back and forth, it gets to that same annoying pitch.

I can say, that when I unchecked "Politics" for O/T, I felt like O/T really calmed down. I understand it is an illusion, but it's an illusion worth falling for, IMO.

quote Originally posted by theBDub: Right, so you're definitely above them.

nice bait there dub like always. im above anyone shorter than 6 foot its just plain anatomy sorry :-/ <--------NOTICE THE JOKE THERE hate for you to get a pantie in a wad dub

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: nice bait there dub like always. im above anyone shorter than 6 foot its just plain anatomy sorry :-/ <--------NOTICE THE JOKE THERE hate for you to get a pantie in a wad dub

Not really bait. Something about your post rubbed me the wrong way. I just shouldn't have responded. I'm sorry.

no im sorry ur not in the wrong it was a stupid comment on my part anyway i would hope that no matter what the affiliation you are democrat or republican that you would do what best for the country even tho both parties see best in different ways. change no matter what way it is is difficult whether its trying to give people a chance to get an education by making availible loans or teaching responsibility by makings jobs availible for them to earn thier education.

i just believe most if not all politicians are in thier own party to make themselves richer and keep up poor and fighting between each other while they laugh to the bank.

All politicians have a hidden agenda. No matter what side of the aisle.....neither can be trusted.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: no im sorry ur not in the wrong it was a stupid comment on my part anyway i would hope that no matter what the affiliation you are democrat or republican that you would do what best for the country even tho both parties see best in different ways. change no matter what way it is is difficult whether its trying to give people a chance to get an education by making availible loans or teaching responsibility by makings jobs availible for them to earn thier education.

I do believe most politicians at least started with that mindset. It's all-too-easy to be blinded by partisanship, though, when that becomes your life. When "the other side" is always against what you believe to be best for the country, it's a real challenge to see past "Blue vs. Red".

I don't know the particulars, but I thought he was deleting his tech postings because he believed that he owned them by some copyright law. There was some fight about it, so he decided to delete them.

I may be wrong. I know there was a b1atch thread about it from Jazzman that I'm sure somebody can link it.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 12-09-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: That just plain sucks. James, what an absolutely stupid thing to do! Not only have you wasted all the time and effort that you put into those posts/threads, but you've also wasted all the time and effort of everyone else who added to those threads. And for what? What the hell has this accomplished? What a way to screw up a legacy.

But that's one of the issues - his "if I don't get my way I'll pick up my toys and go home" thing.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I don't know the particulars, but I thought he was deleting his tech postings because he believed that he owned them by some copyright law. There was some fight about it, so he decided to delete them. A may be wrong. I know there was a b1atch thread about it from Jazzman that I'm sure somebody can link it.

No, IIRC he wanted cliffw to retract his false quote and used his tech posts as a hostage ie "Change it back or I delete all my tech posts". Cliff didn't, so Jazz did. The copyright issue only came up after the fact, when someone (can't recall who) stated he had archives of Jazz's posts and would just repost them. Jazz claimed he held copyrights on those posts and the member in question did not have permission to repost.

quote Originally posted by OKflyboy: No, IIRC he wanted cliffw to retract his false quote and used his tech posts as a hostage ie "Change it back or I delete all my tech posts". Cliff didn't, so Jazz did. The copyright issue only came up after the fact, when someone (can't recall who) stated he had archives of Jazz's posts and would just repost them. Jazz claimed he held copyrights on those posts and the member in question did not have permission to repost.

Well, all may not be lost then. If somebody archived them, they should repost it. Just for the sake of the Fiero Community.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Well, all may not be lost then. If somebody archived them, they should repost it. Just for the sake of the Fiero Community.

Found the thread:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...6/HTML/089493-2.html

It was theburner9. Yeah, here's hoping he did in fact have them archived.

For the record I still have Jazz as a positive for something he posted a year or two ago. Ironically, the post that prompted me to rate him as such was deleted in his last "taking my ball and going home" tantrum. Pity...

quote Originally posted by fierobear: But that's one of the issues - his "if I don't get my way I'll pick up my toys and go home" thing.

Yeah, and what led up to that?

Perhaps years and years of the same core group of forum members picking and poking at him?

Maybe even a couple of those from the Golden State?

Let's not conveniently forget who drove him to these lengths.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Let's not conveniently forget who drove him to these lengths.

They only pointed him in that direction... He was the one who kept going. You can't blame one without the other.

Lately, we've all noticed him acting... erm... Off kilter. The issue seemed to get significantly worse this past summer, I think.

I really took notice in the motorcycle threads, where he was saying a 250 is just fine for a commuter while a certain someone crapped all over the sentiment with a bunch of liter bike elitism. Add to the issues here, the fact he had his house broken into (I believe) and I can see how the stress would build - trying to be helpful while getting baited and no longer being able to use this place as a bit of solace from the deluge of crap that is reality? Everyone needs an outlet and his was plugged.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Yeah, and what led up to that? Perhaps years and years of the same core group of forum members picking and poking at him? Maybe even a couple of those from the Golden State? Let's not conveniently forget who drove him to these lengths.

If it was a problem for him, then he could have simply stayed out of O/T. Oh, wait, that's right...he's the guy who said he COULDN'T leave that one thread that wasn't marked political.

Yeah, Patrick, it's my fault he CAN'T leave a thread. Not his fault at all. Nope. You're right.

Geez.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yeah, Patrick, it's my fault he CAN'T leave a thread. Not his fault at all. Nope. You're right. Geez.

That's a good lead off to this...

quote Originally posted by skuzzbomer: Lately, we've all noticed him acting... erm... Off kilter. The issue seemed to get significantly worse this past summer, I think.

The fact that JazzMan suffers from Asperger's certainly never helped the situation either. I always cut him plenty of slack (in regards to his lack of social skills) because of his Asperger's, but I suspect some of the guys here looked upon him being "different" as an excuse to provoke him. He didn't know how and when to let a confrontation go. He'd do irrational things instead, such as delete his posts.

I hate seeing this type of stuff. It's so ugly and unnecessary, especially at a car forum of all places.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 12-10-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The fact that JazzMan suffers from Asperger's certainly never helped the situation either.

Didn't know that. Seems like everything was getting under his skin lately. Stress will do that.

I've tried to avoid confrontation because I don't like the heat. Makes me... uncomfortable.

http://web.archive.org/web/...um2/HTML/088020.html

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Well, all may not be lost then. If somebody archived them, they should repost it. Just for the sake of the Fiero Community.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The fact that JazzMan suffers from Asperger's certainly never helped the situation either. I always cut him plenty of slack (in regards to his lack of social skills) because of his Asperger's, but I suspect some of the guys here looked upon him being "different" as an excuse to provoke him. He didn't know how and when to let a confrontation go. He'd do irrational things instead, such as delete his posts.

But that cuts to the heart of the issue...the guy KNEW he had a problem, and chose to play in O/T-politics *anyway*. He even had the gall to accuse others (or make fun of others) of "mental/brain problems". Holy crap, man, that's like a guy in a wheel chair insulting someone else by saying "you ****ing cripple!". Huh?

Stop blaming us for "baiting" him and all that other crap. He knew he has a problem, but rather than deal with it rationally, he chose to be an arrogant prick about things AND he was obsessive. He pushed a bad position. Stop blaming us for his shortcomings. He was smart enough to know his issues, but he couldn't take the appropriate actions.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Honestly, we don't need anymore of this BS.

We don't need ?
We don't need cable TV, we don't need a cell phone, a computer, we don't need a new car every year. Who is this we you are talking about ?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Don't you guys ever get tired all of the political infighting.

Yes, that's why we no longer see it.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Your country's falling apart and all you can do is take shots at each other.

Your idea to fix it would be what ? Not say anything ?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: It's really sad and pathetic and it got old a long long time ago.

That is politics as usual and has been for eternity.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: But there's no escape from this crap. We could have a thread in O/T about vanilla ice cream or aardvarks or whatever and sure as hell someone will post a stupid political reference.

There is the back button. I use it a lot. I can also ignore a post and even a poster. It's not hard.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I hate seeing this type of stuff. It's so ugly and unnecessary, especially at a car forum of all places.

This is O/T, off topic of the car forum. I don't like the ugly and unnecessary either but I understand that one finds that in life.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The fact that JazzMan suffers from Asperger's certainly never helped the situation either. I always cut him plenty of slack (in regards to his lack of social skills) because of his Asperger's, ...

My grandson has Aspergers. My wife works in the mental health field. We have a good understanding of Aspergers and how to effectively and kindly as possible deal with it. Allowing misbehavior is not the way to do it. Some/many may not agree, but I also cut him some slack. If you would like examples, just ask.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: ...the guy KNEW he had a problem, and chose to play in O/T-politics *anyway*. He knew he has a problem, but rather than deal with it rationally, he chose to be an arrogant prick about things AND he was obsessive. He pushed a bad position. Stop blaming us for his shortcomings. He was smart enough to know his issues, but he couldn't take the appropriate actions.

Which, was the best thing for him to do. I applaud his courage to do so and think he may have more than any of us here. I believe he is a better man from having done so.

Oh man... This is a DARK day for this forum... We lost one of the true greats here...

He even got the tilt column article on the main page..... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088020.html

This is the main page.
Tilt column repair ?
Tilt column repair.
A better one.
They are all over the web.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: The fact that JazzMan suffers from Asperger's certainly never helped the situation either. I always cut him plenty of slack (in regards to his lack of social skills) because of his Asperger's, but I suspect some of the guys here looked upon him being "different" as an excuse to provoke him. He didn't know how and when to let a confrontation go. He'd do irrational things instead, such as delete his posts.

There are other members with Aspergers as well. Can you point to one of them doing something like this? I'm a member on an Aspergers forum, and though there are issues there, I have yet to see this reaction.

I would post a different opinion on a subject and be "provoking" him.

It didn't matter what I posted about, or what side I (or anyone else) took. If it differed from his it was "provoking him."

That cannot work in the real world, and like it or not this is the real world, full of real people each with their own real problems. We all have our moments, and most of us are really sorry afterwords.

Meh, I just got off a really long shift, and I'm ready for bed. I may not be making sense.
Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: That cannot work in the real world, and like it or not this is the real world, full of real people each with their own real problems. We all have our moments, and most of us are really sorry afterwords. Brad

This.

My best to everyone reading this thread.

Tony

OK, first off, I am not taking ANY sides in this. I saw that Jazzman was banned in another thread so came looking for the reason. I want to see if I can show a different perspective though.

If Jazzman was younger, and in school, some people would say this was a form of cyber bullying. Because he's an adult, they say he is responsible because he could have simply refrained from participating. People are also saying that his actions were juvenile. Kids have killed themselves because of antagonization they've received online. Age wasn't the determining factor in my opinion for this, it was a certain inability to understand that these things weren't as real as they seemed. If Jazzman does indeed have Asbergers, then this may very well be an issue for him as well. Regardless of what someone may read on a forum, conditions will affect people differently, and none of us are experts enough in this to say whether or not this would affect anything.

I've been involved in a few thread crossing arguments here on the forum, and I can say these things definitely get carried away. One thing though, I always try to get out of them before they get so bad as to cause personal harm to someone, no matter how much I dislike what the other person does or their personality. They are a human being and worth no less than I am. Someone loves them and they mean something.

I know it's difficult to admit this, but someone was indeed hurt, whether it be from their own perspective or because of someone else's insensitivity. What I would like to ask is just that the continuing of trying to smear their name stop here. If he does come back, please try to ignore him if you have a beef with him. If he doesn't, let this be the end of it. Quit rehashing it over and over. I'm out of this and am not going to keep this going on my part, but this is my opinion.

quote Originally posted by FrugalFiero: I'd say more but...my Mom just pooped in her diaper and I gotta go change it.

Damn, that sucks. You're a really good son for doing that. Not a lot of kids would do that for their parents... so a + for you.

I never really chatted with him but I can say that his opinions and responses to threads that were created in ALL of the forum areas has been less than pleasing. This just reminds me of 84Bill who tried so hard to get banned and finally did. Nothing lost from my eyes except someone who likes to argue about nothing just to make a point.

~looks around~

~sniffs~

HEY! The crap smell in the livingroom is finally gone! And so is the hypocritical crapper!