oh. Forgot the best part. Trashing your analogy.

I get what you're saying..gone for 2 weeks and some dude is living in your house. What if you left for 10 years? Abandoned and no claims. Someone takes it, and turns it into something. Going to come back 10 years later and cry foul?

quote Originally posted by Gridlock: oh. Forgot the best part. Trashing your analogy. I get what you're saying..gone for 2 weeks and some dude is living in your house. What if you left for 10 years? Abandoned and no claims. Someone takes it, and turns it into something. Going to come back 10 years later and cry foul?

Nope, still be a criminal. Why? Because my home isn't abandoned with no claims, as you put it. Likewise, this country has a functioning society and legal system that is rule of law. Illegals who sneak in aren't entering an abandoned empty country. As to border security, if a million illegals can get across the border every year then so can a million terrorists. Security is just that. I don't think any kind of wall can work, but do believe electronic surveillance can at a relatively low price comparatively speaking. Fact of the matter is, we need to stop the flow of illegals first before we can start removing those already here. The only concession I would consider wrt illegals is if they were good while here, no crimes, no identity theft, etc, then I would allow them to get into the line of legitimate immigrants going through the law to come to this country. Back of the line, of course. They can wait their turn like everybody else.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I remember when Newt and Pelosi got together and did a video supporting NAFTA. I don't think NAFTA has been a good thing for our nation, not then and not now.

Wow. I lived long enough to see it. JazzMan criticizing a Democrat!

Here's something to ponder, what would happen if we do manage to deport the estimated 11 Million illegal immigrants that are here now? You think the government is starving for tax money, wait till then to see how much more they will be short.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Here's something to ponder, what would happen if we do manage to deport the estimated 11 Million illegal immigrants that are here now? You think the government is starving for tax money, wait till then to see how much more they will be short.

Uhhh, most illegals not only don't pay taxes (they can't, without a valid SS number there's no way to report wages and taxes to the federal government) but also send much of the money they make out of the country as remittances to family back home. That's money that's directly removed from this economy, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars every year.

http://www.cis.org/north/remittances-iadb

I've always maintained that illegals are counterfeit workers willing to work for less than legitimate workers, and therefor driving wages down for real workers. If you can get a DVD or BluRay movie for $2 at the local flea market why would you pay $20 for a legitimate copy? The principle is exactly the same with workers. The real value of a worker's job is what a legitimate worker is willing to work for in a legitimate worker market without counterfeit workers such as illegals.

I posit that if we deported 12 million illegals and legitimate workers took their place earning real wages determined by legitimate market conditions then our economy would pick up. 25 billion dollars would stay in our economy instead of going to Mexico and other third world countries, real Americans would be back to work and off of unemployment, and they'd be paying taxes unlike illegals who get paid under the table. Everyone would win except for the illegals, but they're criminals so cry me a river.

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Uhhh, most illegals not only don't pay taxes (they can't, without a valid SS number there's no way to report wages and taxes to the federal government) but also send much of the money they make out of the country as remittances to family back home. That's money that's directly removed from this economy, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars every year.

I copy medical files for worker's comp cases. I've seen people with either no SSN or multiple SSNs. They use fake ones, share them, and so on.

quote I posit that if we deported 12 million illegals and legitimate workers took their place earning real wages determined by legitimate market conditions then our economy would pick up. 25 billion dollars would stay in our economy instead of going to Mexico and other third world countries, real Americans would be back to work and off of unemployment, and they'd be paying taxes unlike illegals who get paid under the table. Everyone would win except for the illegals, but they're criminals so cry me a river.

Then you'd better reconsider voting for Obama again. There has been a talk about him doing backdoor amnesty in a second term. He's already setting the stage:

President Obama Grants Form Of Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants In Baltimore

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Here's something to ponder, what would happen if we do manage to deport the estimated 11 Million illegal immigrants that are here now? You think the government is starving for tax money, wait till then to see how much more they will be short.

Most of the ones around here get paid cash and they use a lot of government social services. I'm thinking that it would be a boost to government revenues. I also saw that Newt is against child labor laws, so he now has his back-up plan for low wages?

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 11-24-2011).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I copy medical files for worker's comp cases. I've seen people with either no SSN or multiple SSNs. They use fake ones, share them, and so on.

Then they're identity thieves, a type of criminal I hold to be no better than the worst of any criminals in our society. Criminals are criminals.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Then you'd better reconsider voting for Obama again. There has been a talk about him doing backdoor amnesty in a second term. He's already setting the stage:

I disagree with many things Obama has done. His decision to not appoint an independent council to go after the treasoners who outed Plame, his decision to throw billions of dollars in subsidies to the nuclear power industry, and his poor handling of standing up to the conservatives that have our government filibustered into near uselessness, for example.

However, no matter how much he didn't do what I hoped he would do, I still believe he is far better than any other option. I honestly believe that if McPalin had won we'd have 20+ percent unemployment and our nation's economy would be in complete freefall collapse, with the resulting societal breakdown strongly resembling what's happening in Somalia. I also honestly believe that all of the conservative candidates currently posing would destroy this country within their first term, and render the United States of America no more relevant in world affairs than Mexico is now.

So, no matter what, I will never, ever, while I'm alive, vote for a conservative. Of course, folks may vote conservative in my name after I'm dead, but sadly there's nothing I can do about that.

So, back to Gingrich, I still can't figure out what part of "illegal" he's just failing to grasp. Even a moron in an institution can understand the concept, why can't he?

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-24-2011).]

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: I disagree with many things Obama has done. His decision to not appoint an independent council to go after the treasoners who outed Plame, his decision to throw billions of dollars in subsidies to the nuclear power industry, and his poor handling of standing up to the conservatives that have our government filibustered into near uselessness, for example.

In other words, all the things you disagree with are basically being "not anti-conservative enough."

You never did answer the question...how many people DIED in the Valerie Plame thing?

quote However, no matter how much he didn't do what I hoped he would do, I still believe he is far better than any other option. I honestly believe that if McPalin had won we'd have 20+ percent unemployment and our nation's economy would be in complete freefall collapse, with the resulting societal breakdown strongly resembling what's happening in Somalia.

There is no way to know what would have happened, but how in the world do you figure that would have been the result? Obama said "if we don't pass the stimulus, unemployment will stay above 8%" (or something like that wording). The stimulus didn't work. Let's assume that McCain would *not* have done the stimulus. How do you figure unemployment would have hit 20% if stimulus doesn't work?

quote I also honestly believe that all of the conservative candidates currently posing would destroy this country within their first term, and render the United States of America no more relevant in world affairs than Mexico is now.

DESTROY the country? By doing (or not doing) *what*?

Obama and the Democrats are doing quite a good job at that right now. The increased government spending is choking the economy. Obamacare is so bad, over 1,400 companies have asked for and been granted exemption from it. The country's credit rating has been downgraded. Your Democrats are doing exactly what you think McCain would have done. When are you going to wake up to the facts? Obama and the Democrats are HORRIBLE for this country.

quote So, no matter what, I will never, ever, while I'm alive, vote for a conservative. Of course, folks may vote conservative in my name after I'm dead, but sadly there's nothing I can do about that.

Wow. That is AWFULLY rigid.

As far as dead people voting, that seems to be the exclusive domain of Democratic districts. But don't let any facts get in the way of your rigid ideology.

quote So, back to Gingrich, I still can't figure out what part of "illegal" he's just failing to grasp. Even a moron in an institution can understand the concept, why can't he?

Agreed. Big minus to Gingrich. But, why don't you say the same thing about Obama? He's been unfailing in his lack of action on securing the border, has the "fast and furious" scandal hanging over his administration, and has been making noise like he's going to grant amnesty to millions of illegals - which you correctly identified as "criminals".

Given the fact that *won't* vote for a conservative, and Obama's past, current and possible future actions are strongly against your wishes on immigration, you don't have anyone to vote for. I guess you'd better just stay home next november.

Read it and weep. Here are a few articles a quick search turned up.
http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html
Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think
Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes

quote The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes

Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time
http://www.usatoday.com/mon...mmigrantstaxes_N.htm

quote The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check. Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year. Paycheck withholding collects much of the federal tax from illegal workers, just as it does for legal workers.

Do Illegal Immigrants Pay Taxes?
http://roygermano.wordpress...mmigrants-pay-taxes/

quote YES!!! They generally pay taxes the same way you and I pay them, but without access to most of the benefits that normally come with being a taxpayer. How they pay Income Tax: Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. Sales Tax: Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants —legal and illegal —all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase. Property Tax: Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants —legal and illegal —pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent.

Get the picture or are there too many trees in the way?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-24-2011).]

I'd gladly double my tax burden to make up any shortfall if they would just deport every single one of them and prevent another from ever criminally entering this country.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Read it and weep. Here are a few articles a quick search turned up. http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes Get the picture or are there too many trees in the way?

So you're ok with illegals using stolen identities to work here and pay taxes? Are you an illegal? Or your parents? That would go a long way toward understanding your apparently benevolent feelings about the millions of criminals in this country stealing American jobs.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I'd gladly double my tax burden to make up any shortfall if they would just deport every single one of them and prevent another from ever criminally entering this country.

That's the problem. I'm not dead set against a tax hike, but I demand more than talk about spending cuts, securing the border, etc. If we agree to tax hikes now, taxes go up and nothing else changes and spending only goes up more.

Cut out all this waste they keep saying they're going to get rid of and then ask about a tax hike.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Yeah, there's a lot of tax and identity fraud going on along with illegally entering the country.

Apparently criminals who pay taxes using stolen identities are a welcome part of our society, according to some in this very thread. Me? I don't care if an illegal paid taxes for 30 years as an identity thief, they still need to be deported. And since they committed multiple frauds while they were here, they should be put on the permanently banned list, meaning any application for immigration to this country should be automatically rejected. Forever. Only thing worse than a criminal is a criminal who also stole someone's identity.

Yep, no matter what the offense, one should not be able to "buy" immunity with non-criminal deeds--not that those illegals have any choice when it comes to paying those taxes. And, since there's no real handle on just how many are here, there can also be no real handle regarding what % actually are paying taxes. According to the articles I read, those who are "paying taxes" are doing so simply because the employer lawfully witholds them, but the employee either does not even file a return or fails to provide accurate and truthfull information when/if he does file. Another criminal act added to the list--tax fraud--I suppose it would be. But hey--who cares? They (some of them) pay their taxes so all is well--right?
Wrong.

Illegal workers is a confusing issue to me at times partially because I am so far removed from it but isn't a major part of the problem the companies and people who hire these illegals?

Don't know about the rest of you but if I needed money to survive and someone was willing to pay me I doubt I worry about much else.

The companies knowingly hiring illegals are just as much, if not more, to blame as the illegals themselves. They wouldn't be coming here for jobs if they weren't offerring them. Just like drugs. If everyone in this country were to get clean (yeah right), the cartels wouldn't be coming across the border trying to sell their stuff. Eliminating suply is a useless venture without eliminating demand.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'88 Ferrario

[This message has been edited by whadeduck (edited 11-25-2011).]

I have a couple of questions. At what income level do illegal immigrants become part of the 53% paying taxes? I suspect that many are at the level where they get Earned Income Credits? Also, my main personal short term issue is the number of illegals who drive without a license or insurance. When they hit me and cause personal injury and property damage, they have a way of melting away to a different locale or back across the border. They arrest (and release?) several of these people a week in my county who are driving around without any apparent liability on their parts. Anybody else have this as a major issue in your community?

quote Originally posted by newf: Illegal workers is a confusing issue to me at times partially because I am so far removed from it but isn't a major part of the problem the companies and people who hire these illegals? Don't know about the rest of you but if I needed money to survive and someone was willing to pay me I doubt I worry about much else.

Only because the Federal Govt has opted to refuse to do their constitutionally mandated job of stopping those illegals at the border--by spinning, deflecting, and moving the responsibility of illegal immigrant employment enforcement to the private sector.
Here's a hint--If they aren't here, they can't be hired.
Liquor store was robbed the other night. Why? Because they had $$ in the register. Evidently, the thinking is, that if there were no goods or cash available at that location, they wouldn't have been robbed.

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: The companies knowingly hiring illegals are just as much, if not more, to blame as the illegals themselves. They wouldn't be coming here for jobs if they weren't offerring them. Just like drugs. If everyone in this country were to get clean (yeah right), the cartels wouldn't be coming across the border trying to sell their stuff. Eliminating suply is a useless venture without eliminating demand.

That was my thinking too. Crackdown on the companies who hire illegals and you would have less of a problem but of course then the blame shifts and some people don't like that very much.

quote Originally posted by newf: That was my thinking too. Crackdown on the companies who hire illegals and you would have less of a problem but of course then the blame shifts and some people don't like that very much.

I know you like to simplify things so you can label the bad guys, but it's not that black and white.

The problem with that is it puts the employer in the position of enforcing immigration laws. If an illegal alien has a stolen Social Security number and fake ID, they may very well pass E-Verify. We have a system in place with E-Verify for employers to check the legal employment status of a potential hiree, but that may not capture someone with faked credentials. The employer can only use the tools they have available.

Border security is the job of the federal government. Verifying an ID and Social Security number (or other suitable documents) is the job of the employer. If both do their part, we won't have the problems we currently have. As long as we have a federal goverment that not only refuses to do it's Constitutionally mandated job but also interferes with states trying to do the same, nothing an employer can do will make a meaningful impact.

quote Originally posted by newf: Illegal workers is a confusing issue to me at times partially because I am so far removed from it but isn't a major part of the problem the companies and people who hire these illegals?

Yes, employers who hire illegals are just as much criminals as the illegals themselves are. Used to be an employer could claim they didn't know the employee was an illegal, but a few years ago we put in place a method for employers to determine if an applicant is a legal worker, so that excuse is no longer very meaningful. Many illegals are hired at the curb, that's a big part of the problem. When I drive to work every day I see a corner where many people who appear to be hispanic are gathered, and on occasion see one or more of these folks getting into a different vehicle. It's very likely these are illegals being hired as day labor, and this goes on all over the country. One, people hired as day labor are paid under the table, hence no taxes paid and presumably the work they're doing displaces the work a legal citizen would be hired to do. Second, INS or whatever they call themselves nowadays won't raid these congregation spots. Hell, in some states and cities taxpayer money is spent to provide infrastructure to support these activities, such as shelter and bathroom facilities. This irritates me to no end. Every single one of those illegals is doing work that's taken away from a legitimate worker, every single hour done. Grrr...

quote Originally posted by newf: Don't know about the rest of you but if I needed money to survive and someone was willing to pay me I doubt I worry about much else.

[/quote]

If you were a legal worker I'd agree. But illegals deserve no such sympathy because underlying their very existence here is the criminal act that put them here.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Here's something to ponder, what would happen if we do manage to deport the estimated 11 Million illegal immigrants that are here now? You think the government is starving for tax money, wait till then to see how much more they will be short.

Unemployement will drop.
Medical costs will drop.
Tax revenue may drop depending on how many of those jobs illegals were doing are then taken by legal workers.
Drunk driving arrests and accidents will drop. (Hispanics have a drunk driving rate 5x higher than any other demographic, specifically with people recently from Mexico and points south)
The bulk of the money that illegals send back to their families in their home countries will instead stay in the U.S. economy,.
Fruit and vegetable prices will go up slightly. (labor is only 6% of the cost of fresh produce)
Construction costs will go up.

I'm okay with this.

quote Originally posted by carnut122: Also, my main personal short term issue is the number of illegals who drive without a license or insurance. When they hit me and cause personal injury and property damage, they have a way of melting away to a different locale or back across the border. They arrest (and release?) several of these people a week in my county who are driving around without any apparent liability on their parts. Anybody else have this as a major issue in your community?

That's a massively expensive problem in this country. Illegals drive illegally by default, and don't carry insurance to cover other's losses because as illegals they can't buy it. Every day across this country illegals are involved in accidents and leave the victims twisting in the wind and taxpayers picking up the tab. Two years ago I was in my back yard and heard a loud boom from the street. I ran to the driveway and up to the street and saw a pickup truck folded in half around a pole and a Lincoln missing its right front quarter about a hundred feet up the street. The door was open and the driver was missing from the Lincoln. Several witnesses saw the wreck and ran down the block and around a corner, chasing the Lincoln driver who turned out to be an illegal with no insurance, no license, no money. He was injured pretty bad, he collapsed two blocks away, He got transported to the public hospital where I helped pay for his care, and presumably after he recovered he was deported. The truck driver didn't have uninsured motorist coverage so he was out the cost of his truck and injuries.

I'd read about the problem but never really gave much thought to it until that wreck; it really opened my eyes in a personal way to the severity of the problem. I wish there was some way for us to recover the millions of dollars illegals cost us every year from their home countries, primarily Mexico. These countries won''t lift a finger to stop their citizens from illegally entering the US because, among other reasons, these illegals send tens of billions of dollars home and into these country's economies. Because of this fact, I hold those countries directly responsible for the costs their citizens impose on us, on me.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Unemployement will drop. Medical costs will drop. Tax revenue may drop depending on how many of those jobs illegals were doing are then taken by legal workers. Drunk driving arrests and accidents will drop. (Hispanics have a drunk driving rate 5x higher than any other demographic, specifically with people recently from Mexico and points south) The bulk of the money that illegals send back to their families in their home countries will instead stay in the U.S. economy,. Fruit and vegetable prices will go up slightly. (labor is only 6% of the cost of fresh produce) Construction costs will go up. I'm okay with this.

Me, too. See, we can agree on some things.

Except that I think tax revenue will go up because a significant portion of the 25 billion leaving the US every year as remittances would be unpaid taxes from wages paid under the table to illegals.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Only because the Federal Govt has opted to refuse to do their constitutionally mandated job of stopping those illegals at the border--by spinning, deflecting, and moving the responsibility of illegal immigrant employment enforcement to the private sector. Here's a hint--If they aren't here, they can't be hired.

DING! We have a winner!

quote Liquor store was robbed the other night. Why? Because they had $$ in the register. Evidently, the thinking is, that if there were no goods or cash available at that location, they wouldn't have been robbed.

Yup, and it is probably rape victim's fault because they're too pretty or dressed provocatively. How screwed up is that?

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I know you like to simplify things so you can label the bad guys, but it's not that black and white. The problem with that is it puts the employer in the position of enforcing immigration laws. If an illegal alien has a stolen Social Security number and fake ID, they may very well pass E-Verify. We have a system in place with E-Verify for employers to check the legal employment status of a potential hiree, but that may not capture someone with faked credentials. The employer can only use the tools they have available. Border security is the job of the federal government. Verifying an ID and Social Security number (or other suitable documents) is the job of the employer. If both do their part, we won't have the problems we currently have. As long as we have a federal goverment that not only refuses to do it's Constitutionally mandated job but also interferes with states trying to do the same, nothing an employer can do will make a meaningful impact.

I agree both are at fault and both sides need to be enforced. Border security is a major issue and so is employers availing of illegal workers. If the employee uses false records the employer should not be held accountable IMO, if they hire without checking and verifying then they should be punished.

quote Originally posted by newf: . If the employee uses false records the employer should not be held accountable IMO, if they hire without checking and verifying then they should be punished.

If they can prove it, they usually aren't held accountable by the authorities, but they are very much held accountable and very often maligned by the general public no matter to what extent they go to insure all their employees are legal.

Illegal immigration is an intereting subject. It's one of the few issues, where you see people who normally very much want the federal govt in every aspect of life, to suddenly want them to butt out completely. The inverse is also very much true.

What's behind all of it? The ever increasing Hispaniuc voting bloc. Anyone wanting to get re-elected is afraid to come out strongly against illegal immigration--on both sides of the aisle. The same is also true within the general public --even within internet discussions. I see liberals very much adamant that illegal immigration should be stopped and historic conservatives seemingly in favor of turning a blind eye for some reason.

Illegal is simply illegal, no matter what.

Considering the shape our economy is in and our high unemployment rate, we still have a very very generous legal immigration process. THIS, I have no problem with.

quote Originally posted by Jazzman Apparently criminals who pay taxes using stolen identities are a welcome part of our society, according to some in this very thread. Me?

Who said that? You are in a habit of putting words in others mouths.

quote Originally [posted by Jazzman Are you an illegal? Or your parents?

No we are fifth generation Americans, but I still can say chinga tu madre cabron.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-25-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: No we are fifth generation Americans, but I still can say chinga tu madre cabron.

Telling me to phuck my mother and calling me a bastard (or worse, giving you the benefit of the doubt) in Spanish is rather uncivilized, don't you think? By the way, I grew up in the Mexican part of my home town, so I was cussing in Spanish by the early 1970s.

Edit to add, my mother's been dead for more than 10 years, and though I miss her, your words don't affect her honor or memory, though they do yours since your mother raised you into the person you exemplify yourself as being with your words above. If she's still alive she should be ashamed of you, and if not you dishonor her memory and bring shame upon yourself and her family name. Perhaps honor is something that never ran strong in your family, that would explain much about who Avengador is, and is not.

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 11-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Unemployement will drop. Medical costs will drop. Tax revenue may drop depending on how many of those jobs illegals were doing are then taken by legal workers. Drunk driving arrests and accidents will drop. (Hispanics have a drunk driving rate 5x higher than any other demographic, specifically with people recently from Mexico and points south) The bulk of the money that illegals send back to their families in their home countries will instead stay in the U.S. economy,. Fruit and vegetable prices will go up slightly. (labor is only 6% of the cost of fresh produce) Construction costs will go up. I'm okay with this.

I'd say that's pretty accurate.

quote Originally posted by Jazzman Telling me to phuck my mother and calling me a bastard (or worse, giving you the benefit of the doubt) in Spanish is rather uncivilized, don't you think?

There you go, putting words in my mouth again. If I meant to tell you anything I would have included your name at the beginning of the sentence, like this: Jazzman, chinga tu madre cabron, so there would be no doubt about it. What I really said is I know how to say things like that and I don't need to be hispanic to do so. Since you knew what I was saying, you know that to be true about yourself as well. Your thinly veiled bigotry about what you perceive my ancestry to be shows through. As they say in P.R.: Jazzman, no me jodas! FYI, my family came over from England and Ireland. My family's names can be seen on the Ellis Island immigrants monument, can yours?

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by avengador1: There you go, putting words in my mouth again. If I meant to tell you anything I would have included your name at the beginning of the sentence, like this: Jazzman, chinga tu madre cabron, so there would be no doubt about it. What I really said is I know how to say things like that and I don't need to be hispanic to do so. Since you knew what I was saying, you know that to be true about yourself as well. Your thinly veiled bigotry about what you perceive my ancestry to be shows through. As they say in P.R.: Jazzman, no me jodas! FYI, my family came over from England and Ireland. My family's names can be seen on the Ellis Island immigrants monument, can yours?

My ancestors came over more than a decade before Ellis Island was built and opened, so no, my family name isn't on the monument you mentioned. As to your cursing, the "tu" is what determined how it was directed, at me, and you didn't put it into quotes to indicate that it was a general example of your cursing skills as opposed to a directed insult. Play your word games avengadora, que son mi pequeña perra.

My word games that are your little female dog? Use the free translation website next time you try to write something in Spanish. Your Spanish is laughable. Tu y tus palabras son mis putas, buey!
In other news.
Newt Gingrich To Obama: Let's Debate, You Can Use Your Teleprompter
http://www.realclearpolitic..._a_teleprompter.html

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 11-28-2011).]

Newt Gingrich.....

I'm reminded of something JFK reportedly said about Goldwater's candidacy for the upcoming 1964 presidential election...

"God, I hope they DO choose Goldwater. I'll never have to leave the White House to campaign."

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Newt Gingrich..... I'm reminded of something JFK reportedly said about Goldwater's candidacy for the upcoming 1964 presidential election... "God, I hope they DO choose Goldwater. I'll never have to leave the White House to campaign."

I really hope Obama thinks that...I really really do.

Newt is looking stronger in the primary, but as everyone says he's got a lot of baggage and he will get hit pretty hard with it. There is stuff out there that they won't allow him to spin.

At least illegal aliens will vote for him.