Ignorance is not an excuse. I have been told this many times by the good old boys in uniform when i fuk up. The owner of the store may have been ignorant to the fact that Americans take our flag serious and vets even more so. The fact that people are against the vet for standing up and making sure the stars and stripes gets the due credit it deserves is embarrassing. All the people crying "well maybe this or that" have no idea about patriotism and honor. Jim did what was required and nothing more. As for vandalism of someone elses property. Well, that sounds like a true sheep that thinks of the person who did the wrong as the victim in the situation. America first , i don't go around flying the German flag above the stars and stripes,even though im proud to be German.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

Proper.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: As for vandalism of someone elses property. Well, that sounds like a true sheep...

I was waiting to see how long it would take someone to mention "sheep" or "sheeple" as soon as anyone had the balls to question this fella's actions. Yeah, like what the hell, how dare anyone want to know a few more details of this story before being in complete agreement with what he did.

So who's acting more like a "sheep", Phrek? Someone who applauds what this fella did without any background on the story, or someone who'd like to be a bit more informed before drawing a conclusion?

My guess is if you were a proud Canadian, and a French, US or Mexican flag was flying above your mapleleaf, you'd look at this slightly differently. I don't think you're out of line asking the question but it would appear you're looking to spark a flame war. It's all in your perspective.

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Ron

Never, never do anything or wear things that you don't want to have to explain to Paramedics, it can get very embarrassing. They talk!

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-05-2007).]

He should have punched the store owner in the nose on the way by. ( tho wading up the american flag wasnt the best, he should have folded it nicely while they watched him step on theirs ).

Will the store owner get fined since the evidence is on tape? Or would that not be PC enough?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Will the store owner get fined since the evidence is on tape? Or would that not be PC enough?

LOL how true that is unfortunantly.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I'm acting like a proud Veteran of the US armed forces . Marines to be exact. Sheep i am not . I know you like to play Devils advocate but i bet you don't know what it feels like to be a Marine in uniform and have the star spangled banner play. Or a soldier ,sailor ,or Airman . There is something about having pride in ones country that you obviously do not have. If you did have pride in your country you would be able to relate. Which you obviously cannot ,by the content of your posts. The Mex flag was above the US flag and it got cut down what more do you need to know? Was it a hoax? Who knows. If you wait until all the info is out before you post your educated opinion this thread will have been archived.

I never have served in our armed forces ( i ended up working for a living after highschool ), but i also am fierecly defendant of our country and am proud to be here.

I may not agree with where its headed, or some of the mistakes that are being made, but its still my country and id also tell anyone to take a hike that tried to do someting like that. Sort of like defending your sister, even if shes a total ditz. You dont mess with family.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: I'm acting like a proud Veteran of the US armed forces . Marines to be exact. Sheep i am not . I know you like to play Devils advocate but i bet you don't know what it feels like to be a Marine in uniform and have the star spangled banner play. Or a soldier ,sailor ,or Airman . There is something about having pride in ones country that you obviously do not have. If you did have pride in your country you would be able to relate. Which you obviously cannot ,by the content of your posts. The Mex flag was above the US flag and it got cut down what more do you need to know? Was it a hoax? Who knows. If you wait until all the info is out before you post your educated opinion this thread will have been archived.

So does this post mean you can't handle your emotions enough to consider possible if not likely scenarios?
Please explain away how it is ok to do whatever you want as long as you're patriotic about it.

The owner of the Mexican bar deserved more respectful treatment of his property than he received and the guy who cut down the flag should have not taken the law into his own hands and relied on the enforcers of American laws to take care of the situation. It seems that a number of you would agree that disrespecting others and forgetting American laws is a good idea and a worthy way to prove that your American. I'm just trying to remind some of you what America stands for and avoid calling anyone a racist or elitist.

My inclusion of Native Americans is to remind you that like any other culture who tries to impose themselves upon us (Mexican flags above American flags) and some peoples rejection to such acts (cutting down flags) is similar to how we tried to impose our culture upon a land and people that did not want us (American pilgrims on Indian land) and we were once rejected (the natives fought us to get us to leave). Hopefully that makes sense.

The "Indians" were unable to protect their borders, and look what happened to them...

quote Originally posted by blackrams: My guess is if you were a proud Canadian, and a French, US or Mexican flag was flying above your mapleleaf, you'd look at this slightly differently. I don't think you're out of line asking the question but it would appear you're looking to spark a flame war. It's all in your perspective.

Ron, anyone who’s been around this forum long enough and read a few of my posts would know I’m very proud to be Canadian. I’m not so insecure though that I’d buy a knife on eBay and cut down some neighbor’s flag without at least asking them if they were aware that what they were doing was both improper and potentially insulting.

I just like knowing a few details before I either applaud or condemn a person’s actions. If you wish to interpret my inquisitiveness as me “looking to spark a flame war”, you would be wrong, but that’s your prerogative.

quote Originally posted by The Poopsmith: The owner of the Mexican bar deserved more respectful treatment of his property than he received and the guy who cut down the flag should have not taken the law into his own hands and relied on the enforcers of American laws to take care of the situation. It seems that a number of you would agree that disrespecting others and forgetting American laws is a good idea and a worthy way to prove that your American. I'm just trying to remind some of you what America stands for and avoid calling anyone a racist or elitist. My inclusion of Native Americans is to remind you that like any other culture who tries to impose themselves upon us (Mexican flags above American flags) and some peoples rejection to such acts (cutting down flags) is similar to how we tried to impose our culture upon a land and people that did not want us (American pilgrims on Indian land) and we were once rejected (the natives fought us to get us to leave). Hopefully that makes sense.

"The owner of the Mexican bar deserved more respectful treatment of his property than he received........." Not in My Opinion. In fact. the actions of Mr. Brosser probably saved the owner of the bar or flag time and money by taking action and not allowing the situation to continue until the "authorities" did correct the dis-respectful situation. Though, I would have liked to have seen the person that did hang the flags pulled into court and prosecuted and deported. That person doesn't deserve to enjoy the rights and freedoms that our flag stands for.

"It seems that a number of you would agree that disrespecting others and forgetting American laws is a good idea and a worthy way to prove that your American." Disrespect? The fact that the flags were displayed in the manner they were was totally disrespectful to this nation, it's citizens and to Mr. Brosser and every veteran that has ever served defending that flag. Forgetting American laws? I think not, what Mr. Brosser did is not much different than seeing any other law broken and taking action to correct it. Though I do admit that he took property that obviously didn't belong to him. So I will give you that. So sue him, I'll wager that he'd gladly repay the owner the cost of the flag versus giving the actual flag back. Though if displayed properly, then I have no issue with that flag being returned. But for that to happen, someone will have to step forward and admit that the flags were theirs and take responsibility for displaying them in a disrespectful and illegal manner.

"I'm just trying to remind some of you what America stands for and avoid calling anyone a racist or elitist." I'll accept whatever tag you want to hang on me, though I don't believe either label would be correct. I would say in this situation, elitist would probably fit your defination closest. But, I don't believe that elisit is an accurate term either. Racism would be way out in left field and not applicable in that it doesn't/wouldn't matter what the race of the individual is/was in this situation. If the two flags had been displayed appropriately, we would not be having this discussion. I honestly don' t know if the owner of the flags was a citizen of the US or not. I suspect not but, I really don't care. The US flag does not bow to any other nation, it does not fly lower than any other flag with the exception of aboard US Navy ships when the Chaplin's flag is flying. Mr. Brosser may have done something illegal in his actions, he did destroy the flag pole rope. I'm sure that he or any of the millions of US Veterans that have defended our flag would be happy to reimburse the owner of that rope.

As far as imposing "our" culture on anyone. Not really applicable to flying the flag inappropriately. I didn't see Mr. Brosser threaten or degrade anyone, there were no cultural bias in anything he did. There was no cursing of the apparent owners, no one spitting in anyone's face. He acted to correct a unlawful and disrespectful situation to this nation. Doesn't matter to me what country's flag was postioned above "Old Glory". If it had been a North Korean or Iranian flag wouldn't have made a difference to me or most other veterans. I can see where this could be associated with the current influx of illegal aliens but, one would be wrong to think that I am supporting Mr. Brosser's actions based on that.

My support is pure and simple, NO flag will fly higher than the Stars and Stripes on our soil. Call it what you will, those that think it's OK to basically flip off this nation and our flag obviously take what they have for granted and doom this nation to fall. No one has the right to hang our flag on our soil as it was done in this event and get away with it. I could go on all day but this is probably going to fall on deaf ears. The fact that you would even attempt to defend this situation separates us in attitude, philosophy and obviously on what it means to feel pride in our flag.

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Ron

Never, never do anything or wear things that you don't want to have to explain to Paramedics, it can get very embarrassing. They talk!

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 10-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by The Poopsmith: The owner of the Mexican bar deserved more respectful treatment of his property than he received and the guy who cut down the flag should have not taken the law into his own hands and relied on the enforcers of American laws to take care of the situation. *snp*

I think you will find many more out there that disagree with your statement then agree. I also think this sort of incident will start to increase in numbers ( and severity, he got off prety easy ) as more Americans get fed up with others coming here, trampling all over us and taking advantage of our kindness just to effectively flip us the bird.

Our history of blind compassion has got us into this mess, and we as a country need to reevaluate it if we want to survive for another 200+ years.


EDIT: my comments are not limited to one race, it seems many are all doing it. And it needs to stop, now.. ( tho with the flag issue at hand, if you pretend the *illegal* Mexicans are not the worst offenders at the moment you arent helping matters ). I also dont include people that follow the rules to come here to better their lives, assimilate into our culture, and contrbute to this country.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 10-06-2007).]

"Spanish, the new american language!" i forget who said it but it's becoming true fast. honestly i believe he could have handled it a little better but sometimes the wrong way to handle something is the best way. it sets an example to those that might of thought of doing the same thing. Now that this event is getting tv and radio attention i'm pretty sure you won't see another person screw up like that for a while. i'm all for people being proud of thier heritage and showing they are proud but there is a line. It was crossed when these people flew those flags. they knew they were in the wrong if they were legal U.S. citizens. it's in the paperwork they have to sign. and if they aren't legal citizens... then i guess cutting down thier flag is nicer then booting them out of this country like we should.

Placing the American flag above another is not an elitist or racist statement but rather a recognition for the sacrefices our countrymen have made in creating this country. It's true that the flag can be seen as a symbol of thuggery since it was created by a band of unwashed nonconformists who were hell bent on destroying the laws and regulations established by the elite class.

It's like anything else, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However one sees it and interprits it's meaning, one thing remains constant. It was / is a symbol for those who had / have balls big enough to stand up amid a crowd of sheep to say clearly and loudly "I'm not going to take it anymore."


Betsy Ross was the Tokyo Rose of America long before radio was invented. Her creation gave voice to those who rallied behind the flag and voiced warning to the brits that they will die trying.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Ron, anyone who’s been around this forum long enough and read a few of my posts would know I’m very proud to be Canadian. I’m not so insecure though that I’d buy a knife on eBay and cut down some neighbor’s flag without at least asking them if they were aware that what they were doing was both improper and potentially insulting. I just like knowing a few details before I either applaud or condemn a person’s actions. If you wish to interpret my inquisitiveness as me “looking to spark a flame war”, you would be wrong, but that’s your prerogative.

Typical apologist Canadian.. Sorry.. Vets and patriots are a little more serious..
Now go hide behind the US skirts Canada doesn't have a military because it has a big brother next door. When you're all growed up myabe you'll get that point
Imperialism/for Oil.. we could take over Canada with a reserve unit of our coast guard and claim your oil fields as our own.
Sorry to any offended.. but getting sick of this crap.. War for oil.. we're evil etc...
If we were after oil would be a hella lot easier to take over canada and mexico than to send troops half way across the globe to Iraq .. (Iraq not a leading producer of oil compared to Saudi Arabia, Venezula)
Go get your shine box

quote Originally posted by Uaana: Imperialism/for Oil.. we could take over Canada with a reserve unit of our coast guard and claim your oil fields as our own.

LOL!!

We do get oil from them too and it's because we can do the above..... and they know it.

quote If we were after oil would be a hella lot easier to take over canada and mexico than to send troops half way across the globe to Iraq .. (Iraq not a leading producer of oil compared to Saudi Arabia, Venezula) Go get your shine box

O/T
So why are we in Iraq?

BTW.. contrary to bills rant.. on soverign US soil the US flag must be flown above any other colors.
To do otherwise is a sign of defeat, and or occupation.

I'm with the self proclaimed vet.. you want it.. come get it.

Otherwise shut up and collect your welfare check.. I've got work to do.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: BTW.. contrary to bills rant..

So what you are saying is that you disagree with my statement below?

"Placing the American flag above another is not an elitist or racist statement but rather a recognition for the sacrefices our countrymen have made in creating this country."

quote I'm with the self proclaimed vet.. you want it.. come get it. Otherwise shut up and collect your welfare check.. I've got work to do.

Yup....
We all work for the man.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: O/T So why are we in Iraq?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stor...nal/main528675.shtml

because nobody else would.. as a libitarian i'm against it.. just on principal.. but understand the idea.
Oil isn't just for the US.. the US demands a semi stable world economy. Iraq threating 1/3rd of the worlds oil supply F's that up.
Not just for us, but China, Japan, UK, etc etc.. we could go into 12 UN resolutions etc but in the end it's about stability in the region.

quote Originally posted by Uaana: Iraq threating 1/3rd of the worlds oil supply F's that up.

Okay.. Let me get this straight... it's NOT about the oil but it IS about the oil?

It's not about oil. It is about oil.

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-06-2007).]

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Okay.. Let me get this straight... it's NOT about the oil but it IS about the oil? It's not about oil. It is about oil.

Yup.. sorry you don't get the difference, between taking for our own, and creating stability for our global trading partners.

It's an economics thing..

quote Originally posted by Uaana: It's an economics thing..

So you are saying it IS about the oil?

Making sure I'm armed before I enter this conversation...

Mr. Brosser may have saved the gentleman flying the flags having his place vandalized or burned...not condoning that, mind you, but there are people out there who would do that, or worse.

And it is NOT required to fly the American Flag above those of other countries; they may be displayed at equal heights. If the gentleman wished to display both flags, he should have erected two flagpoles; but I suspect the display was intentional, as a symbol of sympathy with the Reconquista movement.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Betsy Ross was the Tokyo Rose of America long before radio was invented. Her creation gave voice to those who rallied behind the flag and voiced warning to the brits that they will die trying.

AAArrrgh. BILL...you were doing so well up until this ridiculous, ignorant, nonsequiter, blabbering statement.

Tokyo Rose was a Freedom Fighter?

and you wonder why you are continously ridiculed?

My God! Am I that sick??????? Bill's in an agreement with the majority of this thread!

Uanna is spouting of about oil. (How'd we get there?)

And Poopsmith.......Send me your address. I might need to come over there and kick your ass. (J/K!) I'll bring over the current Airmen, Sailors, Marines and Soldiers along with the vets and retirees and their families that live in the Omaha area. That'd be about 150,000 of the 450,000 people Omaha. I don't know how someone from Omaha can have that viewpoint after seeing what has happened to Omaha over the past 15 years. 12 years ago, I loved to eat at the numerous restaurants in South O and shop in numerous shops in South O. Now, that part of the city has become just as bad of a sh!thole as North O. All you see is Mexico this and Mexico that. I bet you and I could go down to South O and see this flag flying BS at 4-5 businesses. Be proud of where you came from, but remember where you are at. If they want Mexico this and Mexico that, they can go back to Mexico and change their country to their liking.

My 2 cents and assumptions............If the owners aren't illegal immigrants, I'll bet that they've got illegal immigrants on the payroll.

quote Originally posted by Vonov: but I suspect the display was intentional, as a symbol of sympathy with the Reconquista movement.

That would mean that the display (of flags) was a symbolic gesture of war and Mr. Brosser acting as a soldier defending his country from attack, rushed to the front line and took on the enemy "mano a mano."

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: That would mean that the display (of flags) was a symbolic gesture of war and Mr. Brosser acting as a soldier defending his country from attack, rushed to the front line and took on the enemy "mano a mano."

BINGO! We have a winner!

quote Originally posted by Trollster: AAArrrgh. BILL...you were doing so well up until this ridiculous, ignorant, nonsequiter, blabbering statement.

Would it be possible for you to remain civil?

quote Tokyo Rose was a Freedom Fighter?

Did I say that?
No. I didnt say that.

quote and you wonder why you are continously ridiculed?

I know why that happens.
It's because some people just like to stirr up trouble and I like that. To me that is the true American spirit.
Seems I'm a catalyst for people who lack any assemblence of self control.... Like Mr. Brosser for example.

quote Originally posted by 84IQ: Would it be possible for you to remain civil?

This is as good as it gets. Take it and like it.

quote Did I say that? No. I didnt say that.

YES you did. You compared Betsy Ross (FREEDOM FIGHTER), to Tokyo Rose(Mouthpiece for a Military dictatorship)...

OK Bill, this is the part where you say, "Oops, not a good comparison, my bad"

quote It's because some people just like to stirr up trouble and I like that. To me that is the true American spirit. Seems I'm a catalyst for people who lack any assemblence of self control.... Like Mr. Brosser for example.

your high again...aren't you.

quote Originally posted by Trollster: YES you did. You compared Betsy Ross (FREEDOM FIGHTER), to Tokyo Rose(Mouthpiece for a Military dictatorship)...

Uhh.. quote my words again and show verbatum that I said the above.

You are IMPLYING that is what I said.

I said that she gave VOICE to a movement by creating the symbol. Are you going to say that she did not create a symbol or that the symbol she created does not have a voice? Granted it (the flag) is a muted symbol, it says nothing however it is a symbol of Independance and there is a document which gave birth to it which does have a very loud VOICE. Tokyo Rose was the voice of Imperial Japan.. whats the difference? One had a radio and the other had a flag.

Both ladies symbolized a movement in some form or fashion... Are you disagreeing with that statement?

quote OK Bill, this is the part where you say, "Oops, not a good comparison, my bad"

Excuse me?
Just who the hell do you think you are Todd?
I bow to no man.

quote your high again...aren't you.

Whatever... Troll on, jack yet another thread with your personal attacks on other forum members. Seems you just want to start your bullshit with me as usual. whatever.

Atleast I'm not "off" my meds this time.

quote Originally posted by aceman: My 2 cents and assumptions............If the owners aren't illegal immigrants, I'll bet that they've got illegal immigrants on the payroll.

I bet his clientele is too. After all most business owners cater to the needs and wants of their customers.

For those/or he that said this guy is bad for taking the law into his own hands is ignorant as hell. The law IS in every citizens hands and part of the on going problems in this country is people think that only the police are supposed to enforce the law, or that is their pathetic excuse for being a spineless crying pathetic weenie. The problem starts when people start to do the sentencing and carry said sentence out.

Those of us that are citizens of the USA have not only a right but a responsibility to stop crime when we are witness. I have done it a few times, and was greatly appreciated by the victims for intervening and thanked by the police the times they were involved.

To complete this discussion we must all assume that the owner of the flag was an illegal immigrant and was trying to declare an occupation of America. That idea though is way more radical then thinking that the owner of the flag made a mistake. I seriously doubt that a small Mexican bar was posing a grave threat to Americans by flying a flag improperly whether they knew it was illegal or not. All I know is that there was a minor issue with the law incorporating a very significant symbol and an angry white guy with a big knife took action to right the wrong and then told everybody that he had more a right to have that flag then the owner of the bar because he fought for it. I would put that on par with going around and removing the wheels of cars that I know speed on public roads it's not the right thing to do and would be illegal.

I'm not calling anybody a racist or elitist but I do know that some Americans (probably on this forum too) generally hate other countries for very simple reasons. A lot of people think that the whole middle east is one big FUBAR because of extremists but in reality there is a very small percentage that are radical extremists and most people from that area want to live peaceful freedom loving lives in there countries over there like we do here. The most complete way to defeat terrorism would be to spend more money on our process of immigration and use less fossil fuels. We dethroned Sadam and there really isn't anything besides Oil over there that we want so why are we still fighting a war by force? We are killing ourselves here in America faster then the Terrorists you do realize that.

I believe to keep our country from becoming anything less then what it was meant to be we need to start with ourselves we need to invest in ourselves and stop being a cheap country. We have smart people, plenty of resources, and the best place to become a powerful country but all I see is us throwing it away by greed and lack of a smart and just government. Our country is not self sufficient in the least we rely heavily on every other country and we need to start respecting them and their cultures. While we may not bow to other governments we surely don't have the power to tell them to shove off because that would be seriously detrimental to our economy. Lastly you would be wrong in assuming I'm disloyal and unpatriotic but I do not follow blindly to do that is the worst kind of sheepish ignorance I can think of. I respect a lot of people here and else where even if I do not agree with them and in doing so I am showing that I know what it is to be an intelligent freedom loving American.

quote Originally posted by aceman: My God! Am I that sick??????? Bill's in an agreement with the majority of this thread!

I duno, are you sick?
It's not that I'm in agreement with the majority of this thread... It's just that we agree with the actions of the "ignorant unkempt homeless rebel" Mr. Brosser.

This does demonstrate that we can atleast unite in defence of our flag / country. However, it does not mean that we agree on what that flag symbolizes.

I still have a loathing for this government... for it's constant incessant encroacment upon the ability to self govern, for placing restrictions on mobility, allowing for invasion privacy and it's propensity to seize persoanl effects and property on mere whim... but thats another topic all together.

quote Originally posted by aceman: BINGO! We have a winner!

Cool... does this mean I get a gold star and can I use it to buy a cup of coffee?

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-06-2007).]

Poopsmith,
We need to go for a 30 minute drive in South O. Maybe with your eyes wide open I'll show you that it was not simple ignorance of the law.