I already told you, what is it with you? I don't like people commenting on how "if it was me I would have done xyz". You don't know what you would have done. You're just typing on a message board. That Dr never knew this would happen, and I'm sure he didn't know what would happen when he woke in early morning to find burglars in his house. You don't know what this man went through. Leave it at that.
It is disrespectful and shameful to infer this Dr somehow didn't do enough to protect his family. I'm sick of it.
I didn't read that into any of the comments. To me it was more of a wish that there had been a weapon or some way for the Doctor to have saved his family. It's a tragedy that you wish could have been avoided, and you wonder if there was anything different that could have helped.
If you re-read my posts, you'll see I've already stated that I don't know how I would react in that situation because I've never been in that type of situation. That was my point about training, which I've already made and you've dismissed.
No one is blaming the victims. Like you, we just wish things could have turned out differently.
Right now, I'll just hope the doctor can recover, that his wife and daughters rest in peace, and that these two murders receive the justice they so deserve.
I didn't read that into any of the comments. To me it was more of a wish that there had been a weapon or some way for the Doctor to have saved his family. It's a tragedy that you wish could have been avoided, and you wonder if there was anything different that could have helped.
If you re-read my posts, you'll see I've already stated that I don't know how I would react in that situation because I've never been in that type of situation. That was my point about training, which I've already made and you've dismissed.
No one is blaming the victims. Like you, we just wish things could have turned out differently.
Right now, I'll just hope the doctor can recover, that his wife and daughters rest in peace, and that these two murders receive the justice they so deserve.
Even if he wasn't able to protect them in the end, if he had been able to try i bet he would be able to deal with the situation ( recovery ) better. I know i couldn't live with myselif if i wasnt even able to try.
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06:53 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
THEY would likely have the advantage in weapons handling; and in how to be thoughtless and heartless. Likely also the advantage in reacting quickly. FOR ME.
The weapons handling and reaction time is merely a matter of practice. You should ever endeavor to be thoughless though. Be thoughtful and calculated in every decision you make. Heartless is a matter of perspective. If it came down to me and my family or these two jagoffs (as in the case of this poor family) then my heart is with my family and I will learn to deal with the fact that I had to kill two men to protect them.
I didn't read that into any of the comments. To me it was more of a wish that there had been a weapon or some way for the Doctor to have saved his family. It's a tragedy that you wish could have been avoided, and you wonder if there was anything different that could have helped.
If you re-read my posts, you'll see I've already stated that I don't know how I would react in that situation because I've never been in that type of situation. That was my point about training, which I've already made and you've dismissed.
No one is blaming the victims. Like you, we just wish things could have turned out differently.
Right now, I'll just hope the doctor can recover, that his wife and daughters rest in peace, and that these two murders receive the justice they so deserve.
I'm not dismissing your point. I was never really even trying to address you. You've been pretty level headed as far as I can tell. I guess when I wrote "you guys" or "most of you", I really should have written "the sentiment of a few of you". Mostly the comments about Americans being pussys, Connecticut prosecuting victims if they fight back, the notion of "if it was me I would've done xyz", and the inference that the Dr didn't do enough or wasn't prepared enough. Of course he wasn't prepared, he was sleeping and planning on going to work as a Dr which he probably spent 35 years of his life studying for.
This tragedy has affected me personally, not just in the abstract. I actually have a personal stake here. Maybe that's why it pisses me off. If you really wan to know, contact me in a few months when this all out of memory and I'll explain some of it.
The weapons handling and reaction time is merely a matter of practice. You should ever endeavor to be thoughless though. Be thoughtful and calculated in every decision you make. Heartless is a matter of perspective. If it came down to me and my family or these two jagoffs (as in the case of this poor family) then my heart is with my family and I will learn to deal with the fact that I had to kill two men to protect them.
Or you would have been caught unaware at three in the morning because they cased your house and watched as you slept. Then they would've beaten you until you were nearly dead, tied you up, and raped your family. Then burned them alive. That's what happened Todd. I think it's great that you want to protect your family as do all of us, but sometimes you get caught off guard, you can't always be on full alert.
There was no choice here. Can't you understand that. It cheapens the deaths of these people to pretend if it was you things would've been different. It wasn't you. He was doomed the minute those two murderers followed his family home from the grocery store. They were way ahead of him. They already had ropes, a gun, a baseball bat, tape, years of experience, and a 6 hour head start.
Somebody else rip on this pathetic back pedaling jackass. He thinks nobody has been reading this thread and what has been written. I'm tired of it.
Oh, but maybe in a few months after I don't remember, I will say what it is hahahahahaha
Back peddling? Go ahead and read it again, I'm not apologizing. I still think you don't really understand the kind of situation this family was in, if you did you wouldn't be claiming if only there was a gun in the house things might be different. My position is what it is. Nothing has changed. I don't think it's a bad idea to have a gun for protection, I've said that. You just don't read all that well.
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09:00 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
The weapons handling and reaction time is merely a matter of practice. You should ever endeavor to be thoughless though. Be thoughtful and calculated in every decision you make. Heartless is a matter of perspective. If it came down to me and my family or these two jagoffs (as in the case of this poor family) then my heart is with my family and I will learn to deal with the fact that I had to kill two men to protect them.
I have no concerns about being able to master weapons handling and also getting very good at reaction time and control. Pretty much everything I've tried to do that was important to me, I have been able to get to above average or excellent. BUT, it would take practice. And a lot, since I am starting at almost zero. I've fired a gun about 5 total times in my entire life. I don't enjoy guns. I have NO problems with people that do. But since I don't enjoy them, plus the time it would take me to get up to a decent level, plus the limited access to ranges and expense involved and it will be hard to motivate myself to get the practice. Stories like this help motivate me to do what I don't want.
Heartless--I would have NO problem nor hesitation shooting an intruder in my home whatsoever. None. I have 3 daughters. I'm not willing to take ANY chance that they would have to go through what those two girls had to go through. And since I wouldn't be sitting around doing a thorough evaluation of an intruder to see IF they might be that kind of a threat, they WOULD wind up getting shot and killed if I knew what I was doing. Would I be happy? No. Would I be sad? Actually, yes. Would I feel guilty? Not one bit. I seriously would not have to struggle to deal with the fact I killed someone in that situation. Heartless? No. I love my kids and wife. Lots of heart. For THEM.
Is there any kind of pistol that shoots a shot gun type shell instead of a bullet? That may be a totally idiotic question to someone familiar with guns, but I have no idea. Would be easier for me to store in a bedroom than a shotgun.
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09:12 PM
88GT5.0KILLER Member
Posts: 590 From: Watching a once great nation become a 3rd world slum. The power of stockpiles of ammo. Registered: Jul 2002
Or you would have been caught unaware at three in the morning because they cased your house and watched as you slept. Then they would've beaten you until you were nearly dead, tied you up, and raped your family. Then burned them alive. That's what happened Todd. I think it's great that you want to protect your family as do all of us, but sometimes you get caught off guard, you can't always be on full alert.
There was no choice here. Can't you understand that. It cheapens the deaths of these people to pretend if it was you things would've been different. It wasn't you. He was doomed the minute those two murderers followed his family home from the grocery store. They were way ahead of him. They already had ropes, a gun, a baseball bat, tape, years of experience, and a 6 hour head start.
The Dr. and his family were doomed from the start because they like you, are classic examples of "American Sheeple" Here he was in his nice suburbia home, ignorant to the world around him. You're right, no one thinks it can happen to them. Unless you realize that this world isn't a nice place. You are trying to impose your sheeple way of thinking onto enlightened people, and they aren't having it.
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09:23 PM
PFF
System Bot
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
The Dr. and his family were doomed from the start because they like you, are classic examples of "American Sheeple".
Here he was in his nice suburbia home, ignorant to the world around him.
You don't know a damn thing about this doctor and his family, yet you have the gall to make these generalizations about a situation you know nothing about. Do you think your stockpile of ammo makes you somehow smarter than the rest of us?
I suspect your attitude is exactly what Conn is pissed off about.
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09:40 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Is there any kind of pistol that shoots a shot gun type shell instead of a bullet? That may be a totally idiotic question to someone familiar with guns, but I have no idea. Would be easier for me to store in a bedroom than a shotgun.
Doc, I probably know as little about guns as you do, but I'm aware that shotguns are occasionally shortened. I'm sure you've heard of sawed-off shotguns. Probably not legal, but sometimes you do what ya gotta do...
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09:47 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
As long as they're no shorter than 18", for the most part they are legal. 18" with 00 or 000 buck makes a very good pattern for a home defense weapon and also has the advantage of not penetrating through multiple walls at most normal firing ranges so there aren't unintended consequences, something that you have to consider very carefully before pulling the trigger of one of my .45's or something like an AR15 or Mini 14.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Doc, I probably know as little about guns as you do, but I'm aware that shotguns are occasionally shortened. I'm sure you've heard of sawed-off shotguns. Probably not legal, but sometimes you do what ya gotta do...
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09:58 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I'm not really arguing with you because a lot of what you say I agree with, BUT.........
You mention on several occasions, as you did in this post, that "chances were still slim", or words to that effect. Tell me, isn't a slim chance better than no chance? That's what concerns me about those (not talking about you) that dismiss out of hand the idea of a self-defense weapon because it only gives them a "slim chance". Personally, I'll take slim over none myself.
Remember, fate favors the prepared mind.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO:
You're right I don't know more about exactly what happened in that house. I have some additional knowledge about things surrounding the case and some of what Dr Petit has said, but I'm not pretending to know exactly what went on. But as a father of two kids even if he had a gun it probably would have been locked up. And noises happen all the time in the middle of the night. Even if he DID get his gun his chances were still slim, they had the upper hand.
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10:01 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
As long as they're no shorter than 18", for the most part they are legal. 18" with 00 or 000 buck makes a very good pattern for a home defense weapon...
Probably ruins them for duck hunting, eh?
Thanks for the info, John. I suspect the law might be different here regarding sawed-off shotguns, but this is the type of weapon I may investigate for my own home protection.
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10:09 PM
88GT5.0KILLER Member
Posts: 590 From: Watching a once great nation become a 3rd world slum. The power of stockpiles of ammo. Registered: Jul 2002
You don't know a damn thing about this doctor and his family, yet you have the gall to make these generalizations about a situation you know nothing about. Do you think your stockpile of ammo makes you somehow smarter than the rest of us?
I suspect your attitude is exactly what Conn is pissed off about.
No, my preparedness makes me smarter than everyone. Im sure Roger Garrison would understand what Im talking about.
As for being pissed off, him and you both can be pissed off. There's no 2nd chance in home invasion. Maybe if more people thought like Red88FF, FIEROPHREK and myself there wouldn't be as many victims. Heres a link to help the masses of sheeple see what happens when you are a prepared citizen (gunowner) Enjoy http://keepandbeararms.com/
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10:18 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Oh, did Roger photograph some Hooter girls in your bunker?
Hasn't roger thwarted a burglary attemp of his domicile. I believe he used firearms in the situation. Hey patrick you should change your avatar from a frog to an osterich with it's head buried in the sand .
quote
Originally posted by Patrick: You don't know a damn thing about this doctor and his family, yet you have the gall to make these generalizations about a situation you know nothing about. Do you think your stockpile of ammo makes you somehow smarter than the rest of us? I suspect your attitude is exactly what Conn is pissed off about.
Well since you seem to know the Doc and his family so intamently why don't you shed some light on us about his life and his preparedness to defend his home and family. Unless of course you yourself are generalizing. If thats the case your being a bit hypocritical.
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10:32 PM
88GT5.0KILLER Member
Posts: 590 From: Watching a once great nation become a 3rd world slum. The power of stockpiles of ammo. Registered: Jul 2002
Actually, it doesn't ruin anything. The barrels are interchangeable and easily replaced in a minute or less. Keep the 30" for hunting and 18" for home defense.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Probably ruins them for duck hunting, eh?
Thanks for the info, John. I suspect the law might be different here regarding sawed-off shotguns, but this is the type of weapon I may investigate for my own home protection.
Yeah people act like owning a gun is a bad thing . . . . Why ? It's my American right to own a firearm. I don't even need a reason to . I can own one because i want to. The fact that firearms are still a nessecity in todays world makes people kringe. These same people act like they are above owning one. You can act all civilized if you want but one day your going to have a run in with one of the millions of uncivilized humans out there and you going to be caught with your pants down. Have fun with that.
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10:53 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Did your sense of humor suddenly depart? I thought Patrick's comment about Roger mildly amusing.
God knows that Conn, Patrick, and I have been on opposite sides of the social fence on more than one occasion, but in this case I have to say that you are WAY out of line in YOUR assumptions.
I haven't seen anywhere in this thread where Patrick or Conn have said that they are opposed to people defending themselves. Patrick, in fact, is saying he's actually considering some type of home defense weapon if it's legal in his location. You and '85 are acting like both of them are trying to outlaw guns and to be honest, that type of reactionary commenting is just as bad as those that DO want to outlaw all private gun ownership, IMHO. Patrick never said he knew anything more than was published in the media and I don't see where he has made a single assumption. Conn has made a few, but only to the point of saying that he doesn't believe a weapon would have increased the chances by much, but he's never said anywhere in the thread that he thought it shouldn't be an option or that you shouldn't have that option.
I just don't get it. You ARE making assumptions. For all you know, the Doctor may have had a gun vault in his bedroom and simply went downstairs for a drink of water where he ran into his assailants. You don't know otherwise and neither do I. I make no assumptions in THIS PARTICULAR CASE. I believe that having weapons to defend my home and family makes me safer. My house. My family. My choice. There's a chance that you, I, or anyone else that has weapons might walk into the kitchen, or answer the door one day, be beaten with a ball bat in a fraction of a minute with a gun on the other side of the room and never have the opportunity to get to it. While I recognize that's a possiblity, I still choose to be armed, and with a plan for defending my home. But I will NOT sit here, 1500 miles from where this crime occured, and second guess the actions of a man that was beaten with a baseball bat and had his family raped and murdered and then burned, possibly alive. I don't think it's fair of you to do it either.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
Well since you seem to know the Doc and his family so intamently why don't you shed some light on us about his life and his preparedness to defend his home and family. Unless of course you yourself are generalizing. If thats the case your being a bit hypocritical.
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10:57 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Well since you seem to know the Doc and his family so intamently why don't you shed some light on us about his life and his preparedness to defend his home and family. Unless of course you yourself are generalizing. If thats the case your being a bit hypocritical.
Yeah, well maybe you've noticed I haven't stated anything concrete in this thread about the doctor's preparedness against home invaders. I don't pretend to know anything about the doctor or his deceased family.
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
Hey patrick you should change your avatar from a frog to an osterich with it's head buried in the sand .
Actually, a toad (not a frog) isn't a bad avatar for me. Toads mind their own business and generally don't bother anyone, but mess with them and discover a poisonous treat.
Phrek, I notice YOU don't have an avatar, but I guess your sig is sufficient enough to display how proud you are of learning to spell the name of your car.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-27-2007).]
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10:57 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Actually, a toad (not a frog) isn't a bad avatar for me. Toads mind their own business and generally don't bother anyone, but mess with them and discover a poisonous treat.
Phrek, I notice YOU don't have an avatar, but I guess your sig is sufficient enough to display how proud you are of leaning to spell the name of your car.
Well i can tell from the content of your post that you are out of ammo. You are now turning into a child that is backed into a corner . Nice backpeddling with the whole "Yeah, well maybe you've noticed I haven't stated anything concrete " comment . So my grammar sucks whop-a-de-do. (uh could you tell me if i spelled that correctly? )
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11:09 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Actually, it doesn't ruin anything. The barrels are interchangeable and easily replaced in a minute or less. Keep the 30" for hunting and 18" for home defense.
Ah, I thought that sawed-off shotguns were sawed off on both ends. Is that a bad idea (even if the gun isn't used for hunting)?
Can a shotgun be fired by an adult male without having the stock (if that's the right term) braced against one's shoulder?
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
But I will NOT sit here, 1500 miles from where this crime occured, and second guess the actions of a man that was beaten with a baseball bat and had his family raped and murdered and then burned, possibly alive. I don't think it's fair of you to do it either.
Excellent comments, John.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-26-2007).]
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11:09 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Yes, it can be. In the States, I believe it's still legal to saw off the stock FEDERALLY, but some states have restrictions on overall lengths. I actually have a .410 (single shot) that I have the barrel cut off at 18" and then the stock so it's a pistol grip. Kept it behind the seat of the pickup when I farmed in western KS for prairie dogs (occasionally, with saboted slugs) and rattlesnakes (mostly, with #4 shot). Beyond 20' or so it was useless.
You can fire any shotgun without it being braced against your shoulder, it will just move your arms back a bit. The problem is you can't fire it accurately.
John Stricker.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Ah, I thought that sawed-off shotguns were sawed off on both ends. Is that a bad idea (even if the gun isn't used for hunting)?
Can a shotgun be fired by an adult male without having the stock (if that's the right term) braced against one's shoulder?
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11:15 PM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
there are pistols that shoot shotgun rounds (.410 comes to mind) but i don't know how effective they'd be.
i have 2 dogs with big mouths. i don't expect them to defend me, i expect them to warn me. i own guns. i'm a fair shot with pistol and good with rifle. my shotgun is too long to corner well indoors. i don't do tactical drills in my house at night, but i know where i'd prefer to fight from, and i have the home field advantage. if someone invades my home and i know about it, there's a good chance they'll never leave alive.
all that said, if i wander downstairs in the dark to get a glass of milk and two guys come at me with a bat or gun my chances are pretty poor.
that's the range of options available here.
not knowing the circumstances of the incident in question, we can second-guess for days or weeks. also, none of us really knows what we'll do unless we've been there, and the next time it may be different. i've faced down guys with knives, but there's no guarantee i'll be able to do it again.
living in the country is no guarantee. there have been numerous instances of creeps taking over a remote house and killing everyone. dogs and guns are no guarantee, but it does improve your chances, and in this kind of situation i'll take every advantage i can get.
i still want to know why the police took so long (actual interval unspecified) to respond. maybe they got there in a "reasonable" amount of time, but it obviously wasn't enough. maybe one of our LEOs would care to comment on how long it takes to deploy a hostage response?
Jstricker the reason i am assuming (yes it's all speculation because i wasn't there when it happened) that this man was complacent with the security of his home and his family is because of the whole story. If you put yourself in his situation you can tell that he was complacent in his own little world of honest people. He didn't even have a thought in his mind that someone would attack him. You can never assume that you will never be a victim . You must always think of the worst case scenario and be prepared for it. Unless of course you don't mind being burned alive. Most gun owners i know, and the ones i have showed this thread to say they would never go investigate a noise without a weapon of any sort. LISTEN PEOPLE YOU CAN NEVER BE TO PRECAUTIOUS. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Patric i missed the post where you said you might look into a weapon for home protection. In any case congrats on thinking about it. It doesn't hurt to have one but it might hurt if you don't
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11:21 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
You can fire any shotgun without it being braced against your shoulder, it will just move your arms back a bit. The problem is you can't fire it accurately.
I guess if one is across the room from an attacker, that shouldn't be a huge problem. Thanks John.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-26-2007).]
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11:26 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
A lot of people think they need to do what you describe as "tactical drills". Yes and no. I never thought of MINE as that, more like a solid plan. Here's what we had in place.
My wife is the light sleeper in our family. I slept through a tornado that gook 1/3 of our shingles off one night so I can't be counted on to wake up, but if a mouse farts in the kitchen at 3:00 am she's wide awake so she's the early warner.
Assuming she hears something suspicious and wakes me up, and we think it's a serious INSIDE THE HOME THREAT, she had her location in a corner of the room with a clear line of sight to the door. It is on a second story with only one door access into the room. Our room is on one side of a short hall at the top of a stairway with a landing and 90 degree turn in the stairway after 4 steps down.
If we felt the threat to be sufficient, she takes position in the corner, behind the water bed, with the 870 Remington. I take the .45 and go across the hall to Chris' room to make sure he's there, watching the stairway. I turn the hall stairway light on while doing this. I feel I have the advantage in controlling the location and knowing the house floorplan, they do not (in most cases). Assuming Chris was in his room, I wake him, never leaving my defensive position at the top of the stairs, and after warning the wife at least 3 times and having her answer back that she heard and understood me, he goes in with her. (this is much simplified now that he no longer lives at home.
With them in a safe and defensible location, I stay in a covered area where I have full view of the stairway. They can't get to us any other way but to come up those stairs. I shout that we are armed, know they are there, and the police have been called. When we first came up with all this, cellphones were not really common or available and we simply hoped they hadn't cut, or taken the phones off the hook. Now we have one of our cellphones to call 911.
Even though we've called for help, it will take a minimum of 25 minutes for law enforcement to arrive. To be blunt, I don't care what they are doing downstairs, short of torching the place, and we have escape plans for fire as well. They can take what they want, we have insurance and stuff isn't worth someone dying over. I stay in my defensive position and if they should get by me, heaven help them if they make it into the room to face down my wife with the 870.
The goal is not to exact retribution, not to keep them from stealing my stuff or even tearing crap up. The goal is to stay alive. Period. If I hear them leave in a vehicle or out the door, I maintain MY position and have my wife or Chris go to the window and carefully try to make some kind of identification of the vehicle or individuals. If they don't, that's too bad, but under no circumstances do we shoot after them, or chase them down.
As you can tell, this doesn't take a lot of "drilling". Mostly just common sense and making sure everyone knows what they need to do. We actually also have an additional fall back plan that I'm not going into here, but I really don't foresee any reason it would ever be necessary to use it.
Oh, BTW, it helps if when you remodel you take some of this into consideration. I've seen a LOT of home plans that are virtually indefensible. I laid our stairway out to be a chokepoint.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by lurker:
so much here to comment on.
there are pistols that shoot shotgun rounds (.410 comes to mind) but i don't know how effective they'd be.
i have 2 dogs with big mouths. i don't expect them to defend me, i expect them to warn me. i own guns. i'm a fair shot with pistol and good with rifle. my shotgun is too long to corner well indoors. i don't do tactical drills in my house at night, but i know where i'd prefer to fight from, and i have the home field advantage. if someone invades my home and i know about it, there's a good chance they'll never leave alive.
all that said, if i wander downstairs in the dark to get a glass of milk and two guys come at me with a bat or gun my chances are pretty poor.
that's the range of options available here.
not knowing the circumstances of the incident in question, we can second-guess for days or weeks. also, none of us really knows what we'll do unless we've been there, and the next time it may be different. i've faced down guys with knives, but there's no guarantee i'll be able to do it again.
living in the country is no guarantee. there have been numerous instances of creeps taking over a remote house and killing everyone. dogs and guns are no guarantee, but it does improve your chances, and in this kind of situation i'll take every advantage i can get.
i still want to know why the police took so long (actual interval unspecified) to respond. maybe they got there in a "reasonable" amount of time, but it obviously wasn't enough. maybe one of our LEOs would care to comment on how long it takes to deploy a hostage response?
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11:32 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Nowhere does it say he went to investigate a noise. It simply says he confronted them. You don't know what he was doing, you're assuming too much.
Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups.
John Stricker
Edited to add................
May I presume (or assume??) then that every time you go to the kitchen for a drink of water you are wearing your body armor and packing a weapon? If not, aren't you being a little complacent? For all you know, that's exactly what the doctor was doing.........
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
Jstricker the reason i am assuming (yes it's all speculation because i wasn't there when it happened) that this man was complacent with the security of his home and his family is because of the whole story. If you put yourself in his situation you can tell that he was complacent in his own little world of honest people. He didn't even have a thought in his mind that someone would attack him. You can never assume that you will never be a victim . You must always think of the worst case scenario and be prepared for it. Unless of course you don't mind being burned alive. Most gun owners i know, and the ones i have showed this thread to say they would never go investigate a noise without a weapon of any sort. LISTEN PEOPLE YOU CAN NEVER BE TO PRECAUTIOUS. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Patric i missed the post where you said you might look into a weapon for home protection. In any case congrats on thinking about it. It doesn't hurt to have one but it might hurt if you don't
[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 07-26-2007).]
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11:35 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 39064 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
Patric i missed the post where you said you might look into a weapon for home protection. In any case congrats on thinking about it. It doesn't hurt to have one but it might hurt if you don't
I'm not the liberal pinko fag pacifist panty waist legend that some of you think I am.
IP: Logged
11:39 PM
Jul 27th, 2007
westtexas Member
Posts: 404 From: Zephyr, Texas Registered: Mar 2001
"Is there any kind of pistol that shoots a shot gun type shell instead of a bullet?"
Taurus makes a revolver that shots either .45 colt or .410 shotgun shells. You can load six of them in any combination, use #7 shot to 000 buck with the .410 shells, depending on whether you are shooting snakes or people. My experience: revolvers are easier to pickup and use. Better know a semiauto pistol well before depending on it. A .410 pump shotgun has been recommended for inside your home defense because it won't deafen you and has less muzzle flash than a pistol with its longer 18" barrel.
When I lived in the remote Davis Mountains I was woken one night by a loud banging sound on my storage shed. It scared me. I figured it was probably a wetback (60 miles from the Rio Grande) but I couldn't let whoever it was just kick the door in. I turned on the porch lights and walked around with my 18" pump 12 gauge shotgun (bought after being burgularized). I couldn't see a darn thing in the pitch blackness but I must of outgunned whatever was out there because I wasn't bothered again. Law enforcement in Jeff Davis County was one Sheriff and a deputy. They lived about 30 miles away and couldn't find my house if they tried. Calling them would have only been for conversation.
That time, I had time to wake up and get my brain working. If someone surprised me at night in my house, I would probably lose. I sleep hard. Everybody in the house sleeps hard, that's my benefit of a barking dog. I keep a loaded .45 semiauto on the table next to my side of the bed. It could be used against me if I slept through an intrusion. If it was locked it up I probably couldn't get it unlocked if I was scared out of a deep sleep and on an adrenilene high. As dangerous as a unlocked, loaded weapon is, I still want the chance to defend myself and family. But, there's only adults living in the house and we are willing to take the risk. The nearest law enforcement is 15 miles away on rural roads.
I'll have to agree that if the family was stalked by hardened criminals they probably had little chance of saving themselves. I'm guessing that most Americans don't have a plan for home defense against intruders. They don't have to. We live a fairly peaceful country. Bad things don't happen that often and only to strangers living miles away. Most Americans won't get robbed or murdered. We can live long, successful lives without a firearm, much less being proficient with them. Not me though, I also keep a loaded 30-30 in my closet.
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12:10 AM
lurker Member
Posts: 12355 From: salisbury nc usa Registered: Feb 2002
Most gun owners i know, and the ones i have showed this thread to say they would never go investigate a noise without a weapon of any sort. LISTEN PEOPLE YOU CAN NEVER BE TO PRECAUTIOUS. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. 
